PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Luke on July 11, 2008, 03:48:12 PM
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http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3483521
Man, this guy just can\'t make up his mind, eh?
As a lifelong Bears fan I\'ve had the pleasure of watching Favre tear up my team twice a year for a long time. I\'ve always had a very solid respect for the man, but this is just getting silly.
Ten bucks says he comes back, plays for some random team (not the packers) and then just ends up going out looking like a d-bag after a few mediocre seasons.
I swear I better not have to sit through any more brett favre love fests on ESPN when he retires again.
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He would do well in MN. The Bears could certainly use him.
Actually that would be funny with the rivalry over the last 60+ years
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not suprised since he made the decision to retire way too quickly after the season was over. And it\'s not like hes the first one to do this
the main thing that bugs me is he comes off a little egocentric. He put the packers in a tough spot. him retiring made the packers decide to draft qb\'s and start grooming aaron rodgers as the starter..then he all of a sudden wants to come back no matter what kind of tough position he puts the organization in cuz he\'s brett favre.
but itll definitly be interesting if the vikings pick him up..can\'t see the bears actually forking out money on their offense, but they could use him
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the main thing that bugs me is he comes off a little egocentric. He put the packers in a tough spot. him retiring made the packers decide to draft qb\'s and start grooming aaron rodgers as the starter..then he all of a sudden wants to come back no matter what kind of tough position he puts the organization in cuz he\'s brett favre.
Favre actually hates i mean HATES Ted Thompson. Ted T. basically made this whole situation. Favre didn\'t want to retire at the end of the year he was basically convinced into it by being rushed and haveing the GM not talk to him at all. And on top of it since TT was made GM Favre feels like he has never gotten the respect or anything from him. Regardless if Favre is right or not the GM should have done what is best for the Green Bay Packers and not made this situation.
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God forbid the Packers let the 4th best QB of last season play.
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Yeah, someone on the packers message board said something like "well he can come back if he\'s ok with being aaron rodgers backup"
are you fucking kidding me? the bears havent had a good quaterback in a million years and these doorknobs want so bad to play aaron rodgers that would make brett favre back him up.
god packer fans are stupid.
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I know. Why on earth would you not want the most-intercepted quarterback in NFL history line up behind center? The year after he single-handedly ruined the strongest Packers team Green Bay fielded in ten years?
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not suprised since he made the decision to retire way too quickly after the season was over. And it\'s not like hes the first one to do this
the main thing that bugs me is he comes off a little egocentric. He put the packers in a tough spot. him retiring made the packers decide to draft qb\'s and start grooming aaron rodgers as the starter..then he all of a sudden wants to come back no matter what kind of tough position he puts the organization in cuz he\'s brett favre.
but itll definitly be interesting if the vikings pick him up..can\'t see the bears actually forking out money on their offense, but they could use him
I have to agree. Favre, while great, just seems to come off on a guy who craves this attention. For the last few years he just constantly keeps the Packers on their toes on if he will retire or not. Now he wants come back. No wait - he doesn\'t. No - wait he does. No, it doesn\'t. It\'s absurd.
Then again, I felt the same way when his father passed away and he played that night. For me, it seemed like poor taste. I know a lot of people believe it showed how strong he was, but for me, it just seemed like he was playing just so people would talk about what he was doing.
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It\'s ridiculous. He\'d have to win an MVP or a super bowl at this point for a come back to not tarnish his legacy. It\'ll be like Jordan in Washington...everyone will kind of just want to forget it happened.
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I know. Why on earth would you not want the most-intercepted quarterback in NFL history line up behind center? The year after he single-handedly ruined the strongest Packers team Green Bay fielded in ten years?
With all of his accomplishments you choose that stat?
a victory against the New England Patriots in Super Bowl XXXI. most career NFL touchdown passes (442), most career NFL passing yards (61,655), most career pass completions (5,377), most career pass attempts (8,758), most career NFL interceptions thrown (288), most consecutive starts among NFL quarterbacks (253; 275 total starts including playoffs), and most career victories as a starting quarterback (160).[
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I know. Why on earth would you not want the most-intercepted quarterback in NFL history line up behind center? The year after he single-handedly ruined the strongest Packers team Green Bay fielded in ten years?
I love people who yank this stat out trying to make favre look shitty. Most years he threw sooo many passes a game that it was bound to happen. I think people put too much on interceptions. They happen. The good qb\'s are the ones who can take the ball next time out and go 90 yards for a touchdown, which favre did many, many times.
You do realize that last years team would not have even made the playoffs if it weren\'t for him pulling 3 td games out of his ass right?
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You do realize that last years team would not have even made the playoffs if it weren\'t for him pulling 3 td games out of his ass right?
there\'s a bit more to it. ryan grant breaking out was a ginormous reason..and their wide recievers, other than driver, stepping up.
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yeah yeah yeah but you cant tell me without farve that woulda been the same team. He won at least 3 or 4 games for them last year damn near by himself.
And for most of the year their rushing game was ranked last in the league. And I guarantee that those wr\'s wouldn\'t have looked so good without fave throwing pinpoint passes to them while 2 defensive linemen are all over his ass.
bottom line - farve isnt what he used to be, no doubt, but in his prime he was the best qb in the nfl, and even now he\'s still better than at least 75% of the starting qb\'s in the league.
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I bring up Favre\'s interceptions because #1, he has often thrown them at the worst times: the playoffs. At least three Green Bay playoff runs were single-handedly ended because of Favre\'s interceptions, some very disastrously (6 ints against the Rams in 01, two suicidal picks against the Giants this year). He\'s only won three playoff games since their defeat in Super Bowl 32 ten years ago, not very acceptable considering that he\'s had at least solid talent around him for most of his career. He damn well should have won more than one Super Bowl.
I\'m not saying Favre sucks, but I am saying he\'s overrated. Vastly. Dan Marino and Joe Namath are the only quarterbacks more overrated, in my opinion. Favre has won many games on his own. He\'s also lost many games on his own, too. Hell, Favre isn\'t even Green Bay\'s best quarterback. Bart Starr is. (I consider Starr the greatest quarterback ever)
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Hmm...i don\'t know....i like favre...ireally respect the guy,...but even if he does come back,..for some reason i don\'t see him havin\' an explosive season* i guess i\'m just used to seeein him with the pacs*...and he\'s not nearly as quick as he used to be...yes he can still throw, but whatever team he goes to must have a strong O line.
I agree with viper tho,..if he didn\'t want to retire he didn\'t have to...nobody forced him,...he did really put the team in a tough spot,..i\'m sure if he didn\'t retire he still would\'ve been the no 1 qb in greenbay, even tho they were grooming that young qb...brett at the most has few good years left in him and that\'s about it,...cause anything after that is suicide..your body can only take so many hits & punishment before it breaks down,...and when you\'re older like that it doesn\'t take much to shatter your ribs or other parts of your body...
Again i do luv Brett, but he just should\'ve bowed out gracefully,..he has nothing to be ashamed of in his career. Now he runs the risk of bein\' like priest holmes who was practically non-existant last year.
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Weltall pulled the stat off of wiki and wanted to impress all of us. I mean most career pass attempts but he\'s not allowed to have the most picks. Vastly....yawn
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Kareem Abdul Jabar probably leads the NBA in most missed shots too.
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...and he\'s not nearly as quick as he used to be...yes he can still throw
Speed was never one of his attributes.
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Speed was never one of his attributes.
he wasnt fast but he was very evasive. not so much anymore
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http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3484473
WOW.
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the guys on espn said they did that because theyre doing everything in their power for him not to be on the vikings or bears. week 1 they play the vikings, at green bay, where they were planning on retiring his number.
Im trying to think of a team with a young qb that could use some time on 2nd string learning behinnd favre, and all i can think of is oakland. but i dont think thatll happen. maybe he will end up playing for the packers this year (briggs said he wouldnt play another down with the bears, and we saw how that ended up)
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Yeah i just dont see any way favre sits the bench anywhere.
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Kareem Abdul Jabar probably leads the NBA in most missed shots too.
He also won six championships. Favre has as many as Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, and Jeff Hostetler. So, while KAJ probably did miss lost of shots, it obviously didn\'t kill his teams as much as Brett Favre\'s interceptions have famously murdered the Packers\' post-season escapades.
Favre is great, when you look at stats. But he\'s not top-tier. He\'s no Montana or Brady or Bradshaw or Aikman.
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Takes two people to complete a pass, and a bunch of fat dudes protecting the QB.
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I do have to agree that for all his greatness only 1 super bowl win is kinda shitty. But yeah, football is the ultimate team game.
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Tom Brady\'s been winning Super Bowls with practically no one around him.
And while it takes two to complete a pass, Favre\'s always had good receivers, like Driver and Freeman, and a perpetually solid O-line. Jerry Rice wouldn\'t have gotten all of his numbers with Trent Dilfer throwing to him.
Facts are, Favre\'s interceptions are mostly because he\'s never been careful (which cause some to affectionately refer to him as "a gunslinger"). Gunslingers are gamblers. They can win. They also get picked off an awful lot.
And I\'m not just picking on Favre in particular. I\'ve long thought Peyton Manning was super-overrated as well, for many of the same reasons.
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Brady has been winning Super Bowls with no one around him? I think I\'ve heard enough to not have a football conversation with you.
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Tom Brady\'s been winning Super Bowls with practically no one around him.
And while it takes two to complete a pass, Favre\'s always had good receivers, like Driver and Freeman, and a perpetually solid O-line. Jerry Rice wouldn\'t have gotten all of his numbers with Trent Dilfer throwing to him.
Facts are, Favre\'s interceptions are mostly because he\'s never been careful (which cause some to affectionately refer to him as "a gunslinger"). Gunslingers are gamblers. They can win. They also get picked off an awful lot.
And I\'m not just picking on Favre in particular. I\'ve long thought Peyton Manning was super-overrated as well, for many of the same reasons.
Are you fuckin ignorant?
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftheanteheroes.com%2FHumor%2FMassFacepalm.jpg&hash=173b73de05a54b66c9c193f60fa7816781098236)
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Tom Brady\'s been winning Super Bowls with practically no one around him.
And while it takes two to complete a pass, Favre\'s always had good receivers, like Driver and Freeman, and a perpetually solid O-line. Jerry Rice wouldn\'t have gotten all of his numbers with Trent Dilfer throwing to him.
Facts are, Favre\'s interceptions are mostly because he\'s never been careful (which cause some to affectionately refer to him as "a gunslinger"). Gunslingers are gamblers. They can win. They also get picked off an awful lot.
And I\'m not just picking on Favre in particular. I\'ve long thought Peyton Manning was super-overrated as well, for many of the same reasons.
yea i think you just lost about 90% of the forum..the other 10% are euro\'s who think football is soccer
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Tom Brady\'s been winning Super Bowls with practically no one around him.
And while it takes two to complete a pass, Favre\'s always had good receivers, like Driver and Freeman, and a perpetually solid O-line. Jerry Rice wouldn\'t have gotten all of his numbers with Trent Dilfer throwing to him.
Facts are, Favre\'s interceptions are mostly because he\'s never been careful (which cause some to affectionately refer to him as "a gunslinger"). Gunslingers are gamblers. They can win. They also get picked off an awful lot.
And I\'m not just picking on Favre in particular. I\'ve long thought Peyton Manning was super-overrated as well, for many of the same reasons.
Uhm. Ok.
Tom Brady hasn\'t had anyone, eh?
Gotcha!
Please kill yourself now.
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Tom Brady\'s been winning Super Bowls with practically no one around him.
And while it takes two to complete a pass, Favre\'s always had good receivers, like Driver and Freeman, and a perpetually solid O-line. Jerry Rice wouldn\'t have gotten all of his numbers with Trent Dilfer throwing to him.
Facts are, Favre\'s interceptions are mostly because he\'s never been careful (which cause some to affectionately refer to him as "a gunslinger"). Gunslingers are gamblers. They can win. They also get picked off an awful lot.
And I\'m not just picking on Favre in particular. I\'ve long thought Peyton Manning was super-overrated as well, for many of the same reasons.
Wow, that kind of stupidity ranks up there with things I\'ve heard out of unicron.
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I dare any of you to name five Patriots skill players from their 2001 and 2003 Super Bowl teams without looking.
Or four from their 2004 team, minus the Corey Dillion freebie I\'ll spot ya. That was also the year they had offensive guys playing defense because of injuries. And they STILL won 17 freaking games.
Point was, Tom Brady did a hell of a lot more than Favre with a hell of a lot less. Even more impressive when you consider that the Pats play in a conference that has been vastly more competitive in the last decade.
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do the same with the packers. five skill players? that\'s all 3 wide recievers, tight end, and running back, and all of those different years...i dont feel like explaining why exactly that is retarded. but good try on making it seem more of a no-talent team than they really were.
if i had to without looking, troy brown, deon branch, kevin faulk, that other running back i think starts with an A, dillon, that whole offensive line has been one of the most solid lines, daniel graham..that\'s all i got off the top of my head, but if i looked at the roster i guarantee i\'d get a handful of "oh yea, that guy helped win the super bowl"..not to mention that the defenses front 7 have been up there with the best in the league for a while, especially during those years
yea...
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I dare any of you to name five Patriots skill players from their 2001 and 2003 Super Bowl teams without looking.
Or four from their 2004 team, minus the Corey Dillion freebie I\'ll spot ya. That was also the year they had offensive guys playing defense because of injuries. And they STILL won 17 freaking games.
Point was, Tom Brady did a hell of a lot more than Favre with a hell of a lot less. Even more impressive when you consider that the Pats play in a conference that has been vastly more competitive in the last decade.
I can name players, but that\'s besides the point. Why don\'t you talk about something more important like the stellar offensive line he\'s always had.
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I guess Branch was a useless player, eh?
You do realize, someone had to catch those balls and run with them - right? Brady had plenty of talent around him, it just wasn\'t the kind of talent that shows off. Then last year he gets Moss and everyone just magically forgets he had talent around him all those years.
And let\'s face it, the only reasons the Packers are not releasing Brett is.
(1) It is a PR nightmare. He goes somewhere else and all the idiot cheese-heads will hate Packer management.
(2) If he did come back, he would be a solid back up for if Rodgers got hurt. It would make no sense to let him come back as a starter, as after this "retirement" Green Bay realized they needed to move on and did (wisely drafting Brian Brohm). Still, it doesn\'t hurt to have a solid semi-reliable back up in the wings just in case your unproven starter gets hurt or turns out to be a complete and total failure.
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Randy Moss caught one more touchdown in 2007 than Deion Branch has caught in his entire six-year career. Branch is a second-rate player who had one moment in the sun and an utterly pedestrian career before and since.
Kevin Faulk is a hanger-on. Troy Brown was rather awesome I admit. I hope you clowns spare me by not naming David Patten on here.
Anyway, behind all this tangent lies the fact that Brett was never as good as most thought he was, had a tendency to kill his own team (if anyone forgot this year\'s playoffs), and is too old to warrant a real investment.
I guess unless you\'re the Vikings. Or the Bears, who have not had a good quarterback in roughly seventy years.
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kevin faulk is a hanger-on? did you even watch football last season? i know his rushing yards aren\'t really anything, but he was huge for them last season, especially as a receiving RB
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Let me reiterate, he\'s had a steller offensive line always. Without that it doesn\'t matter how good your skill players are or not.
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Brady also before this last year never had overwhelming stats. People just pointed to his winning super bowls...so how you can only include skill position players in this argument makes no sense. Defenses and O-Lines help win super bowls (often more so than the skill guys). Brady\'s average QB rating those years was in the high 80\'s.
Who were the skill position players around Favre that were so great? Antonio Freeman? Dorsey Levens? Favre never had the talent around him on offense that Brady has. And Brady arguably had as much talent around him on offense this year as anyone ever has, and didn\'t get it done, choking when it mattered most.
Ryan Grant didn\'t do anything until the end of the year last year. The Packers got off to an amazing start. You can\'t put their success on him. It was on Favre, who WAS the Green Bay offense for most of the season. The guy finished 2nd in MVP voting for a reason.
If Tom Brady had no one around him, how was the team that successful when Brady only put up moderately good stats during 3 super bowl years?
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Let me reiterate, he\'s had a steller offensive line always. Without that it doesn\'t matter how good your skill players are or not.
Exactly..this sums it up,..and this is a factor for any team...For guys like Brady, Manning & other stationary qb\'s that front line protection is crucial....look at what the giants did to the patriots last year,...they keep blitzing brady all game long and kept him off balance.....i\'ve seen a couple of games where teams blitz the s**t out peyton manning and his numbers of the said game dropped dramatically.
Romo knows how to handle pressue a little bit better since he\'s quick and nimble outta the pocket and he has to be,..dallas o-line is not the greatest,..and there were times when as soon as romo hiked the ball, there was a defensive linemen that went right thru the dallas o-line and got right to romo....so yeah those guys on your o-line is a huge factor to your qb winning games and making accurate passes.
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stupid cowboy fans bringing up stupid cowboy players in a packers/unfortunately patriots thread... :D
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Romo\'s a different sort of case. He has the talent around him, and he still can\'t win when it matters.
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stupid cowboy fans bringing up stupid cowboy players in a packers/unfortunately patriots thread...
I love the hate my boys get...makes it that much more satisfyin\' when we whoop your teams\'s ass...:fro: ...Now let\'s finish talkin\' bout the pacs shall we?...my point was basically that a qb needs a strong O-line to be effective...
Romo\'s a different sort of case. He has the talent around him, and he still can\'t win when it matters.
Tru...but alot of those games..(especially that dallas/giants playoff game of last year...dallas really killed themselves with uninspired gameplay....they had so much success last year and were poised to really at the very least to surpass the playoffs and go into the superbowl...but anything can happen the nfl...i really think that last year was the year for them...i don\'t see them doing as good as they did last year...
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Let me reiterate, he\'s had a steller offensive line always. Without that it doesn\'t matter how good your skill players are or not.
i agree there is not a coach in the league that would not trade their entire o-line from the o-line of n.e. in any of the superbowl years. only individual stand outs on bad to mediocre lines make it to pro bowls i.e. olin kreutz cause thats how you get attention
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Cowboys will hire Michael Vick once he\'s released.
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They probably will
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Vick will never play quarterback again. If any NFL team does take a risk on him after his release from prison, it would likely be as a running back. He was a rather poor passer.
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Vick will never play quarterback again. If any NFL team does take a risk on him after his release from prison, it would likely be as a running back. He was a rather poor passer.
Maybe the Patriots will sign him. :)
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jesus god
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since i was right about kevin jones going to the bears (didnt post it here,but i called it since the lions got rid of him), ill call how the favre thing will go down.
hell end up starting for the packers, if they ever get to a point of missing the playoffs (even a hint, like the broncos did to jake plummer), theyll stick rodgers in...then favre will hate them for benching him and have a feud that lasts forever. if they make the playoffs, hell retire, and rinse and repeat
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I don\'t think they\'re going to let him back in, especially with the stunts he says he may pull.
Favre can throw a ball, but he needs to learn how to retire properly. He\'s been doing it unsuccessfully for almost five years.
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In unrelated news, Australia sucks.
http://psx2central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36192&highlight=australia+cyclone
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I don\'t think they\'re going to let him back in, especially with the stunts he says he may pull.
Favre can throw a ball, but he needs to learn how to retire properly. He\'s been doing it unsuccessfully for almost five years.
the media has been pressuring him for five years to make a decision right after the season ends. Every older player thinks about retiring after every season..but only the brett favre\'s get berated by the media day after day to give a yes or no. why michael strahan hasn\'t gotten the same media, i dont know, but even he did the same thing last season, and has probably been thinking about retiring prior to the beginning of last season
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the media has been pressuring him for five years to make a decision right after the season ends. Every older player thinks about retiring after every season..but only the brett favre\'s get berated by the media day after day to give a yes or no. why michael strahan hasn\'t gotten the same media, i dont know, but even he did the same thing last season, and has probably been thinking about retiring prior to the beginning of last season
I agree that the media has made this whole stupid soap opera worse over the years, but a lot of them... hell, most of them... have annually pressured Favre to remain. Many still are, even now. Favre himself is not blameless either. His tear-streaked, indecisive press conferences are a yearly tradition that gets more media coverage than the Pro Bowl.
Strahan hasn\'t gotten the same bad rap because he has openly debated retiring for only two years (Brett\'s on year FIVE), he actually did retire this year, and he\'s already moving on from football.
Point is, Brett Favre is showing a complete absence of dignity throughout this affair. His indecisiveness has for years hamstrung the Green Bay organization as far as personell matters are concerned, and now you have so many morons who think that one player is more important than his whole team.
I mean Christ, Montana never had this much drama when he left the Niners, and Montana was four times the quarterback Favre is.
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http://msn.foxsports.com/other/wcStory?contentId=8375338#story=8399606
Lost all respect for him now.
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Wait- didn\'t you know that now he is thinking about NOT PLAYING because he has that much love for the game?
He\'s BRETT! Everything he does is for love of the game.
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since i was right about kevin jones going to the bears (didnt post it here,but i called it since the lions got rid of him), ill call how the favre thing will go down.
hell end up starting for the packers, if they ever get to a point of missing the playoffs (even a hint, like the broncos did to jake plummer), theyll stick rodgers in...then favre will hate them for benching him and have a feud that lasts forever. if they make the playoffs, hell retire, and rinse and repeat
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=3517748&sportCat=nfl
hmmhmm
sum it up: theyre going to let favre and rodgers compete for the starting job (most likely)
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^^^Yeah that\'s kinda f**ked up...i like brett, but he just turned the whole franchise upside down....nobody forced him to retire and as soon as he did, the pacs were preparing for the future...*well they were anyway with rodgers but still*....i say brett has about a good 3 years left in him at the very least.
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I bet he has a mediocre year and retires again.
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I bet he has a mediocre year and retires again.
Nothing on the team has really changed. I think if ryan grant is still able to be a productive RB, theyll make the playoffs again with favre. And if charles woodson can stay healthy the defense will be as good as it was last year. The front 7 should kick ass again.
outside of favre, the packers did a damn good job in rebuilding the team since most of them are young
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I just hope farve doesn\'t expect to go out like Elway.
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Favre is great, when you look at stats. But he\'s not top-tier. He\'s no Montana or Brady or Bradshaw or Aikman.
Aikman..... are you kidding me. You have just lost all football merit.
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Aikman..... are you kidding me. You have just lost all football merit.
Aikman was good....dallas was damn near invincible with emmit and irvin to complement aikman back in the 90\'s. Aimen was just as good as P.manning at the peak of his career as far as his accurate precision goes...he started fallin\' off towards the end of his career tho, due to those concussions, but in his prime Aikmen was extremely great. Was he as good as montana?....maybe not, but i think he could hold his own against the other qb\'s mentioned.
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It\'s finally over
Favre is going to the jets
when it was between the buccs and jets i was praying (as a football fan) that he would go to the jets. The buccs already made the playoffs with jeff garcia, who is more than capable. And i still think chris simms can be a solid QB..he got fucked out of the starting job..dude plays through a busted spleen only to get ousted by no fault of his own.
jets on the other hand need to move on from pennington
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That\'ll probably be a good look for farve...i\'ve always liked the jets....pennington was ok, but he just never reached his peak as a qb, and his arm strength was questionable.
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That\'ll probably be a good look for farve...i\'ve always liked the jets....pennington was ok, but he just never reached his peak as a qb, and his arm strength was questionable.
if they were in the nfc, i\'d give them a shot. But theyre going to be fighting for the wildcard with the broncos, browns/steelers, jags, titans..
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So Im guessing they are scrambling to get that cover of 09 changed now huh?
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^^^That and will Farve be a victim of the madden curse?...;)
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Hi clips. How would you feel about Michael vick as yer back up?
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Hi clips. How would you feel about Michael vick as yer back up?
I say hell to the naw....vick wasn\'t exactly puttin\' up a great numbers when he was playin\'...he was mostly known for his scrambling ability....i can only imagine how rusty & out of shape he\'s going to be in once he\'s finished serving his time..
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vick was a decent long passer, but was probably the worst short passer in the history of the game. passes to the running back would fall to their feet or be such a lofty pass the back couldnt do anything with it. any short passes in front of him he\'d throw it like he was tossing it 30 yards.
i say put him as a slot reciever when he comes back..cowboys need one of those
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I\'m glad Tampa didn\'t get him. That would have been a mess. I mean it would have been cool to have him here, but it would have really screwed up the locker room. Garcia is going to do fine.
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Not to mention that would of made like seven QB\'s for Tampa.
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Hacks though....
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I struggle to see why the Jets even bothered signing Favre, knowing that he most likely will only play one year.
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Still better than Chad for another year.
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I hope RothlesJesus can do some miracles this season.
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And Chad goes to Miami for a week 1 show off against the Jets.
Oh the drama that the NFL spins!
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Aikman..... are you kidding me. You have just lost all football merit.
All four of them piloted modern football dynasties.
Soon, you\'ll have to add Roethlisburger to that list. Motherfucker just wins.