PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Mr. Kennedy on July 17, 2008, 02:03:58 PM
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In recent months, I have devoted a lot of my time and reading to the principles of libertarianism and our founding fathers. With that being said, I have not posted here in quite some time, but I was just curious what your thoughts are on what I am about to say.
It occurs to me that every election we are given "two candidates with few disagreements on fundamentals who pretend that they represent dramatically different philosophies of government." (The Revolution: A Manifesto, 2008). It has finally occurred to me that what Ron Paul is saying is correct. Can anyone honestly tell me that their lives will be that much different if Obama is running things vs. McCain running things. Everyone says Obama has fresh, new ideas... or wait, is that what the media wants you to think? McCain is a better choice for taxpayers, are you kidding me? They may seem different, but nothing is ever going to change. The way the government is set up, we will never have radical change. So to all you folks who engage in Obama vs. McCain political debates, I fear that it is merely for theatrics. Change in American lexicon simply means more of the same.
We will never have a truly revolutionary president because the media, and our government, doesn\'t allow it. It really is a shame. I know times are different from when the founding fathers created this great country, but has there every been as much disregard for the constitution of the United States as there is today? So you can go on preaching how your candidate is so much different from the opposition, but the fact of the matter is, you are only fooling yourself.
And yes, I know, the liberals are going to be freaking all over me for writing this. And no, I don\'t support either candidate.
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we don\'t have a revolutionary president because the costs are too high to do so. Are civilians in utter chaos? no..we\'re doing just fine when it boils down to it. People talk as if there\'s some kind of change that\'s going to fix all/a lot of our problems, when there arent easy solutions. Many people have ideas on how to fix our economy..but would if we go with a change, and it doesn\'t work out...that could lead to something a lot worse than what we have going on right now.
I already know im going to get more of the same in terms of domestic problems with either president. But in terms of foreign policy, what we have now can change without that much risk, seeing as our policy is complete shit..and in those terms, mccain looks like another bush to me..so im voting obama
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we don\'t have a revolutionary president because the costs are too high to do so.
Hmmm... that\'s not how I see it. If we took on a foreign policy on non-interventionism America would be trillions of dollars richer. We have a military presence in 130 countries. How is that helpful? There has been research proving that suicide bombings in Iran have been linked to American presence there. If we remove ourselves from these countries and quit nation-building and stirring up emotions of resentment from these countries, not only will America become a whole lot richer, but it will save lives in the process. I\'m not a pacifist, but if you ask me our current foreign policy is the equivalent of prodding at a hornet\'s nest.
But in terms of foreign policy, what we have now can change without that much risk, seeing as our policy is complete shit..
I agree, read above. Believe it or not this is not a democrat vs. republican issue as you might believe. John Kerry and Hillary Clinton both voted for the Iraq war.
and in those terms, mccain looks like another bush to me..so im voting obama
Yes, he looks like another Bush. I hate to say it pal, but despite what you may believe, no matter who gets elected (among Reps & Dems) it will be more of the same. Don\'t fool yourself into thinking that Barack Obama is everything Bush is not, that\'s what he and the media want you to think. As I said, in political lingo, change is the equal to the shuffling of government spending and more of the same.
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i get what you mean. There\'s a fine line between thinking the government is able to get better and swimming in false beliefs, and being a realist and getting complacent. But the fact Obama was willing to talk to Iran while Mccain was on board with bush in that they think theyre unable to be talked to, is the only piece of evidence i personally have that the two will be different in foriegn policy. Im totally aware that iran\'s president is nuts and mccain/bush could be right, but the closed-mindedness keeps me from supporting either of them
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Why are we even there to begin with? I don\'t doubt for one second Obama will "talk" to Iran, but to expect him to achieve a peaceful resolution is ridiculous. Just get the military presence out of there, it is costing a lot of lives and dollars. Let countries settle things for themselves, we don\'t need to be policing countries and involving ourselves in their affairs... that\'s how wars get started.
I may get some serious flack here, but hear me out. Woodrow Wilson indirectly caused World War II. Why? Because he helped the allies in World War I, thus leading to victory, thus leading to the treaty of versaille, which pissed off Hitler, which led to the holocaust, which led to World War II, which led to the bombing of Pearl Harbor. Foreign entanglements are bad. If you think that makes us look weak and open to attack, let me ask you this. Who would have to motive to attack us? Also, with an army as powerful as ours, who would want to?
The point I\'m trying to drive across here is Obama\'s method is at the very best, a slightly better alternative. The best method is to simply get the heck out of there before things get worse.
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you don\'t really have to worry about any serious flack till giga gets here :D. but as long as you rag on the dems he shouldnt be too bad.
I dont think its really fair to blame woodrow wilson for getting us involved in WWII. a big reason we got involved in WWI is because our ships of good that we were giving to britain were being shot/blown up. Im not too on top of WWI, since schools tend to brisk over it and rush to WWII, but that was just one of the main things i heard of. And no matter what, hitler would have found some reason to attack us, other than being pissed at the treaty of versaille..the guy was going napoleon, so he wouldn\'t leave us alone just because we didn\'t get involved in WWI. I\'d almost say al of hitler\'s excuses to fight were purely propoganda..if it weren\'t the jews, it\'d be someone else, if we didnt get inolved in WWI, it\'d be something else. But all that is looking back on the past, when vision is 20/20, and hypothetical talk which has no merit.
And i dont know how to deal with Iran. I dont think it\'s as simple as leaving them alone, especially when theyre the ones with potential nuclear weaponry. And if that comes to fruition, it\'s not the U.S. we\'re immedately worried about.
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And no matter what, hitler would have found some reason to attack us, other than being pissed at the treaty of versaille..the guy was going napoleon, so he wouldn\'t leave us alone just because we didn\'t get involved in WWI. I\'d almost say al of hitler\'s excuses to fight were purely propoganda..if it weren\'t the jews, it\'d be someone else, if we didnt get inolved in WWI, it\'d be something else. But all that is looking back on the past, when vision is 20/20, and hypothetical talk which has no merit.
When you say Hitler attacked us, are you referring to the league of nations? Which was a direct result of the treaty of Versaille. I\'ve read numerous books citing that Hitler was headed towards a career as postmaster general of Germany before the treaty was signed. Lets call a spade a spade, Hitler used that treaty as motivation for building his army. If you look at it from a neutral perspective, the treaty was pretty damn unfair. It flat out blamed Germany for everything. Had we adopted a non-interventionist foreign policy, we might not have even been involved in World War II. Who knows if such a treaty would have even existed, most likely not.
It would be great if we could even debate the foreign policy we have now, but aside from a few minor differences, it is shared by both major parties.
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yea, we definitly screwed germany over at the end of WWI, and were ignorant of the possible outcomes of just leaving them in ruins. But like you just said, hitler used the treaty has motivation to build his army. Again, im going into hypothetical situations, but I think Hitler would have used some other driving force to do what he wanted. But who knows how much influence/leverage hitler would have if the treaty was better.
But isn\'t there a pretty big arguement that isolationism doesnt work? we were isolationists before, then we were pretty much forced to get involved..i always thought pearl harbor was that watershed moment, but the fact we were involved in WWI messes up that thought i have
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But isn\'t there a pretty big arguement that isolationism doesnt work? we were isolationists before, then we were pretty much forced to get involved..i always thought pearl harbor was that watershed moment, but the fact we were involved in WWI messes up that thought i have
It\'s not isolationism. I still favor diplomacy, free trade, and freedom of travel.
Quoted from "The Revolution"...
The real isolationists are those who isolate their country in the court of world opinion by pursuing needless belligerence and war that have nothing to do with legitimate national security concerns.
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I would just like to stop in here and say that I truly believe that no matter who is president my day to day life will not change. Therefore I just don\'t care. I\'ve never voted and I don\'t see myself giving a shit enough to vote anytime soon.
People have jumped on my case for this for years, but nobody has been able to change my mind.
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I won\'t jump on your case.
I agree with it a hundred percent.
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I would just like to stop in here and say that I truly believe that no matter who is president my day to day life will not change. Therefore I just don\'t care. I\'ve never voted and I don\'t see myself giving a shit enough to vote anytime soon.
People have jumped on my case for this for years, but nobody has been able to change my mind.
I don\'t blame you one bit. With the candidates our "Big Government" spits out every four years there\'s no reason to vote. The government has too much power, and there\'s really no way to change that at this point.
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It\'s true,..nothing dramatic will come out of this presidency,...but i do believe that on some level whoever is in the white house makes some type of impact or we wouldn\'t have dems or republicans or independents,..even tho lately it seems like it doesn\'t matter who is in there. And i personally feel that it\'s big business that runs the white house & america itself.
The u.s. is in a big mess right now, and there are huge differences between both candidates,...i know that whoever is the next prez, that our problems is not going to solved in the next 4 years,...maybe not within the next 8 years....but it\'s going to be the critical decision making that\'s going to get this country back on track....I like Obama,..and yes he\'s fresh, and i don\'t hear the same \'ol political garbage that most politicians promise when they\'re campaigning.
Like i stated tho,...big business has a stranglehold on washington and whoever becomes prez also has to deal with the stubborness of the congress....sometimes the prez will veto something if the congress hasn\'t added this to a bill and congress won\'t approve this from prez,..etc, etc,....there\'s alot of redtape bulls**t that goes down in washington which results in alot of things not getting done...
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Thats not necessarily true clips.
If Obama wins it will be very dramatic just b/c it is a first and says alot about our country as whole and how far we have come in 40+ years.
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What, that we\'ve finally become so guilty about past racism that we\'re willing to elect a politically-insubstantial black man by the sheer virtue of his blacktitude?
Obama\'s message is CHANGE. That\'s so unique. It\'s not like every candidate of the non-incumbent party since Thomas Jefferson in 1800 hasn\'t fired that fucking cannon before.
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Yea..guilt is what gets officials elected.
1st Favre.....now this.
Charisma and money go a long way in EVERY aspect of life.
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I would just like to stop in here and say that I truly believe that no matter who is president my day to day life will not change. Therefore I just don\'t care. I\'ve never voted and I don\'t see myself giving a shit enough to vote anytime soon.
People have jumped on my case for this for years, but nobody has been able to change my mind.
I carry that sentiment more or less. I still tune into it a little and will probably vote this time around but I don\'t really feel like it matters.
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I try to say informed as much as I can.
I have not voted in the last 8 years...edit(actually longer than that since i have only voted once)
Just b/c I can vote, I dont think I should have to vote if I dont "feel" one candidate or another. I dont care what office needs to be filled.
Not b/c I feel it does not matter, I just dont feel the need to vote for someone i do not believe in. I was going to vote for Obama, but it will probably just be another time I do not vote.
If I do, it would be for social reasons, not b/c I buy his brand of bullshit.
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Thats not necessarily true clips.
If Obama wins it will be very dramatic just b/c it is a first and says alot about our country as whole and how far we have come in 40+ years.
Well...i was mainly just saying how things generally are after a new prez is in there,...nothing really dramatic comes out of it, you don\'t really feel a difference in quality of life, but i think whoever is in office this time around has to make an impact,..there\'s too much s**t that\'s outta control...and everybody is feelin\' what is goin\' on with the economy...except McCains economic adviser who stated that the economy is not as bad as everyone think it is...:rolleyes:....i guess not when you have money fartin\' outta yer ass..
As far as racial progress?...yeah, we\'ve come a long way, but the more things change the more they stay the same,...with the way the economy is goin\' Obama should have a huge lead on McCain, but he doesn\'t...why?...news anchors want us to believe it\'s because "white people" doesn\'t know him or they believe he isn\'t patriotic enough...:rolleyes:....just call that s**t for what it is...the race is so close cause you have some white folks that are not votin\' for him because of his race.
17 or 24 percent of hillary voters are votin\' for McCain because they stated they didn\'t like Obama?..even tho both hillary & obama have practically the same policies?...when Obama & hillary had a debate in PA and the news folks asked a hillary supporter if hillary doesn\'t become the nominee would you vote for obama? she stated that if hillary didn\'t become the nominee, she would vote for McCain....pathetic.
But yeah we\'ve come quite a ways but we still have a looong way to go...i\'m sure if hillary was the nominee that lead would be waay bigger than it is now...meh the problem anyway isn\'t with the younger set as much,..it\'s more of a problem with older white folk that are still holdin\' on to their racist values and themes...once that generation of racist a**holes dies off, racial tolerance will be alot better in this country.
It pains me that say if Obama is actually the person to really make a difference, that some would rather vote for a white person that they probably don\'t really support in the 1st place, but would rather see a white prez in tha WH rather than an Afri American.....i\'m still willing to see the cup half full rather than half empty when it comes to race relations in this country tho...
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You want to talk about racial progress? How about every black person voting for Obama though they have no reasoning why. Clips your whole post details why blacks have a problem in this country and for none of the reasons you think.
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You want to talk about racial progress? How about every black person voting for Obama though they have no reasoning why. Clips your whole post details why blacks have a problem in this country and for none of the reasons you think.
I have said this before to clips - he chooses to ignore the question. I guess his reasoning is blacks are incapable of being racist - only whites are.
I have no problem with a black president, however Obama is not the one for me. Just saying "change" does not make it so. He has no ideas and I still believe he is an empty suit who says things based on which way the polls are blowing. I also used to think Obama was a good speaker, well that is until I saw him without a teleprompter - he is almost as painful to watch as Bush.
Obama also has no sense of humor - getting all bent out of shape over political cartoons and such - What I have to say to him is get used to it buddy.
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I have no problem with a black president, however Obama is not the one for me. Just saying "change" does not make it so. He has no ideas and I still believe he is an empty suit who says things based on which way the polls are blowing.
That sums up my thoughts to a T. My dislike for Obama stems from his policies and ideas. I don\'t care if he\'s black or white, because he definitely has a red socialistic streak in him, and that\'s plenty to turn me away.
Basically the most important issue for me is the reduction of bloated government spending. Unfortunately, neither candidate looks strong on that.
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I really think that the most important thing to any presidential candidate is.... being president.
I don\'t think they want or care about "change" or to make life better for the average American.
They want to be president, and they will do or say whatever they think will get them the job.
The presidential race is like one big, fat job interview.
I guess thats not such a bad thing, really.
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You want to talk about racial progress? How about every black person voting for Obama though they have no reasoning why. Clips your whole post details why blacks have a problem in this country and for none of the reasons you think.
Oh please be quiet...i like how you folks totally ignore what i wrote up above..i didn\'t make that stuff up...the truth hurts....and since black folks will vote for anybody thats black, you mean to tell me when Al Sharpton was campagining for the presidency, all black folks voted for him?...riiight..they didn\'t..as a matter of fact alot of black folks didn\'t even vote for that afri american women that was campaigining for the presidency as well...the majority in that election voted for kerry...who\'s white btw in case you\'re confused...
It\'s funny how i can honestly criticize black folks when they\'re actin\' a fool,..(and i\'m sure there will be no complaints about that) but when i present honest facts about how some white folks react when it comes to voting at least in this election some of you white folk like to act like racism doesn\'t exist...trully pathethic....and again when there are all white candidates campaigning,...you never heard of news anchors sayin\'.."will black people come out to vote for a white candidate"...why is it they always have to ask is america ready for a black president?...don\'t give me no bulls**t answer...it\'s because some white folks won\'t vote for him because of his color, whereas with black folks we voted for that white candidate with no problem....
I also used to think Obama was a good speaker, well that is until I saw him without a teleprompter - he is almost as painful to watch as Bush.
You\'re getting him confused with McCain who clearly uses a teleprompter for all of his events..he even pauses alot when tryin\' to read them...
Obama also has no sense of humor - getting all bent out of shape over political cartoons and such - What I have to say to him is get used to it buddy
Meh i think he has a right to be a little pissed at that cartoon,..they\'re painting him as a terrorist with Bin-Laden hanging over the fireplace,..with the flag burning in it?....All the other spoofs poked light-hearted fun at other politicians, but nothing along the lines of them actually bein\' a terrorist and burning a flag...it\'s trying to support some bulls**t theme that he\'s not patriotic and that he\'s some type of muslim extremist...
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Actually, that cartoon was poking fun at the Republicans who insinuate such charges.
Being a national politician is going to open you up to all kinds of insulting behavior. Not all of it is fair or clean or tasteful. Fucking deal.
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Oh please be quiet...i like how you folks totally ignore what i wrote up above..i didn\'t make that stuff up...the truth hurts....and since black folks will vote for anybody thats black, you mean to tell me when Al Sharpton was campagining for the presidency, all black folks voted for him?...riiight..they didn\'t..as a matter of fact alot of black folks didn\'t even vote for that afri american women that was campaigining for the presidency as well...the majority in that election voted for kerry...who\'s white btw in case you\'re confused...
It\'s funny how i can honestly criticize black folks when they\'re actin\' a fool,..(and i\'m sure there will be no complaints about that) but when i present honest facts about how some white folks react when it comes to voting at least in this election some of you white folk like to act like racism doesn\'t exist...trully pathethic....and again when there are all white candidates campaigning,...you never heard of news anchors sayin\'.."will black people come out to vote for a white candidate"...why is it they always have to ask is america ready for a black president?...don\'t give me no bulls**t answer...it\'s because some white folks won\'t vote for him because of his color, whereas with black folks we voted for that white candidate with no problem....
You\'re getting him confused with McCain who clearly uses a teleprompter for all of his events..he even pauses alot when tryin\' to read them...
Meh i think he has a right to be a little pissed at that cartoon,..they\'re painting him as a terrorist with Bin-Laden hanging over the fireplace,..with the flag burning in it?....All the other spoofs poked light-hearted fun at other politicians, but nothing along the lines of them actually bein\' a terrorist and burning a flag...it\'s trying to support some bulls**t theme that he\'s not patriotic and that he\'s some type of muslim extremist...
for a person who is indifferent about skincolour you seem to be talking about "them white folk" a lot and I don\'t just mean this last post....
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Oh please be quiet...i like how you folks totally ignore what i wrote up above..i didn\'t make that stuff up...the truth hurts....and since black folks will vote for anybody thats black, you mean to tell me when Al Sharpton was campagining for the presidency, all black folks voted for him?...riiight..they didn\'t..as a matter of fact alot of black folks didn\'t even vote for that afri american women that was campaigining for the presidency as well...the majority in that election voted for kerry...who\'s white btw in case you\'re confused...
It\'s funny how i can honestly criticize black folks when they\'re actin\' a fool,..(and i\'m sure there will be no complaints about that) but when i present honest facts about how some white folks react when it comes to voting at least in this election some of you white folk like to act like racism doesn\'t exist...trully pathethic....and again when there are all white candidates campaigning,...you never heard of news anchors sayin\'.."will black people come out to vote for a white candidate"...why is it they always have to ask is america ready for a black president?...don\'t give me no bulls**t answer...it\'s because some white folks won\'t vote for him because of his color, whereas with black folks we voted for that white candidate with no problem....
You\'re getting him confused with McCain who clearly uses a teleprompter for all of his events..he even pauses alot when tryin\' to read them...
Meh i think he has a right to be a little pissed at that cartoon,..they\'re painting him as a terrorist with Bin-Laden hanging over the fireplace,..with the flag burning in it?....All the other spoofs poked light-hearted fun at other politicians, but nothing along the lines of them actually bein\' a terrorist and burning a flag...it\'s trying to support some bulls**t theme that he\'s not patriotic and that he\'s some type of muslim extremist...
What is that? I think this cartoon is much worse about McCain... Funny thing is you didn\'t see McCain getting whiny about it. Obama is a pussy.
Yeah that is lighthearted fun :rolleyes: That picture below is from Rolling Stone Magazine. You libs really are hypocrites aren\'t you?
Why don\'t we look at the black turnout for Jesse Jackson? The thing is no whites were voting for Jackson so of course he wouldn\'t get the nomination since blacks only account for 12 percent of the vote.
Every other word out of Obama\'s mouth when speaking without a teleprompter is "uh"... every fifth word is "change" and every tenth word is "hope".
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Oh please be quiet...i like how you folks totally ignore what i wrote up above..i didn\'t make that stuff up...the truth hurts....and since black folks will vote for anybody thats black, you mean to tell me when Al Sharpton was campagining for the presidency, all black folks voted for him?...riiight..they didn\'t..as a matter of fact alot of black folks didn\'t even vote for that afri american women that was campaigining for the presidency as well...the majority in that election voted for kerry...who\'s white btw in case you\'re confused...
It\'s funny how i can honestly criticize black folks when they\'re actin\' a fool,..(and i\'m sure there will be no complaints about that) but when i present honest facts about how some white folks react when it comes to voting at least in this election some of you white folk like to act like racism doesn\'t exist...trully pathethic....and again when there are all white candidates campaigning,...you never heard of news anchors sayin\'.."will black people come out to vote for a white candidate"...why is it they always have to ask is america ready for a black president?...don\'t give me no bulls**t answer...it\'s because some white folks won\'t vote for him because of his color, whereas with black folks we voted for that white candidate with no problem....
Please be quiet? Truly pathetic? Spare me this bullshit. Please keep playing victim, you do it so well. I know racism exist but it\'s a two way street. For every white person that won\'t vote for Obama cause he\'s black there\'s a black person voting for him just because he is so don\'t worry.
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What is that? I think this cartoon is much worse about McCain... Funny thing is you didn\'t see McCain getting whiny about it. Obama is a pussy.
Yeah that is lighthearted fun :rolleyes: That picture below is from Rolling Stone Magazine. You libs really are hypocrites aren\'t you?
Why don\'t we look at the black turnout for Jesse Jackson? The thing is no whites were voting for Jackson so of course he wouldn\'t get the nomination since blacks only account for 12 percent of the vote.
Every other word out of Obama\'s mouth when speaking without a teleprompter is "uh"... every fifth word is "change" and every tenth word is "hope".
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.google.com%2Furl%3Fq%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.latimes.com%2Fmedia%2Fphoto%2F2008-07%2F41005748.jpg%26usg%3DAFQjCNHTMl3c-8meDyPcwdl40rcLaQs8_A&hash=934bde51bfb79dbced562aa05fb46b5f6f60c562)
You really cannot see the difference in the two cartoons?
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Actually, that cartoon was poking fun at the Republicans who insinuate such charges.
Being a national politician is going to open you up to all kinds of insulting behavior. Not all of it is fair or clean or tasteful. Fucking deal.
It\'s actually supposed to be quite complimentary towards Obama. I have yet to read it though.
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I think this thread has evolved into exactly what I thought it would. People still believe that there is an actual difference between the two candidates. Also, I would also like to point out that voting for a President based on his skin color is as equally racist for not voting for him for that reason.
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I printed that New Yorker and it is mindless drivel.
That is all I\'ll say about it.
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for a person who is indifferent about skincolour you seem to be talking about "them white folk" a lot and I don\'t just mean this last post....
We\'re in a thread that\'s about race relations and how it\'s affecting the election,....these types of threads tend to get heated,..to get my point across i have to show the differences in what is happening between the two ethnic groups...so you are going to hear "white folk" & "black folk alot"
Why don\'t we look at the black turnout for Jesse Jackson? The thing is no whites were voting for Jackson so of course he wouldn\'t get the nomination since blacks only account for 12 percent of the vote.
And how many years ago was that?...:rolleyes:...we\'re talking about the here & now....everything is all happy-happy joy joy..as long as white candidates are in there, but have a legit black person in there and all of a sudden...the media asks.."is america ready for a black prez"....this is what is mostly pissin\' me off....and the fact that the race is so close because white folks don\'t know him & feels he\'s unpatriotic?.....that\'s bulls**t....the fact of the matter is that it\'s 2008 not 1984,(or whenever jessie ran for prez,..i was young)...and we still have to deal with ignorant racist folks that are livin\' back in the 60\'s & 50\'s
Please be quiet? Truly pathetic? Spare me this bullshit. Please keep playing victim, you do it so well. I know racism exist but it\'s a two way street. For every white person that won\'t vote for Obama cause he\'s black there\'s a black person voting for him just because he is so don\'t worry.
I\'m playin\' victim cause i\'m speakin\' the truth? If i was playin\' victim i would be blamin\' the gov\'t for my situation,...i would be lookin\' to the gov\'t for handouts and i would be blamin\' white folks for everything....i\'m not even going to go into how many times i\'ve criticized black folks when they were actin a fool or usin\' the racial thing to their advantage,..so it\'s not even about defending blacks with me..it\'s about defending what\'s right.
And some blacks probably are votin\' for Obama because of his skin color,..but that is not my point,..my thing is why all of a sudden is it such a big deal in 2008 we have to ask the question...are we ready to elect a black person as prez?...that and i\'m highly upset (well i\'m not losin\' sleep over it) over the fact that some hillary voters are votin\' for McCain...clearly because they say they don\'t like Obama?....there\'s some underlying racial overtones goin\' on there since both hillary & obama policies are nearly the same.
Obviously i\'m not talking about all white folks,...just the one\'s that are ignorant....again if hillary was the nominee,..i wouldn\'t have a problem votin\' for her, & neither would the majority of black folks in this country.
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We\'re in a thread that\'s about race relations and how it\'s affecting the election,....these types of threads tend to get heated,..to get my point across i have to show the differences in what is happening between the two ethnic groups...so you are going to hear "white folk" & "black folk alot".
I didn\'t just mean this thread...
And some blacks probably are votin\' for Obama because of his skin color,..but that is not my point,..my thing is why all of a sudden is it such a big deal in 2008 we have to ask the question...are we ready to elect a black person as prez?...that and i\'m highly upset (well i\'m not losin\' sleep over it) over the fact that some hillary voters are votin\' for McCain...clearly because they say they don\'t like Obama?....there\'s some underlying racial overtones goin\' on there since both hillary & obama policies are nearly the same.
I have nothing to back this up, but I\'m guessing more than half the people don\'t even know what policy they\'re voting for, they only care about the image portrayed by the candidates.
Obviously i\'m not talking about all white folks,...just the one\'s that are ignorant....again if hillary was the nominee,..i wouldn\'t have a problem votin\' for her, & neither would the majority of black folks in this country.
let me get this straight: In this topic we\'re supposed to talk about "racist white folk", but talking about "racist black folks" is besides the point? :rolleyes:
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I didn\'t just mean this thread...
Of course i don\'t use it just in this thread..in any racial thread i\'ll use that term,...it\'s not offensive.... i\'m just using it to get my point across since it\'ll be the theme of the thread....your point?
I have nothing to back this up, but I\'m guessing more than half the people don\'t even know what policy they\'re voting for, they only care about the image portrayed by the candidates.
This could be true, but since these folks are supposedly die-hard dems and mostly women, i just don\'t see how you could turn around and vote for somebody like McCain who is the complete opposite of hillary & obama...again you could be right, but imo i think it\'s not likely.
let me get this straight: In this topic we\'re supposed to talk about "racist white folk", but talking about "racist black folks" is besides the point?
It is beside the point in relation to the topic at hand....Al Sharpton was in the last election, yet he did not garner the majority of the black vote...my angle & anger is mostly geared toward the media & how they\'re fueling the racial debate,..which trickles down to "ignorant white folks"....so my point again is that even tho sharpton received some votes he didn\'t receive the full vote of black folks,..the majority still voted for kerry...
Now i know that alot of white folks are supporting Obama, but the race between Obama & McCain are incredibly close and the media over is saying with the way the economy is, they could not figure out why obama doesn\'t have a bigger lead, their reason was that he is not relating to white blue collard workers and they stated that these same people felt that obama was not patriotic enough....all i stated was the obvious, that they just won\'t vote for him because of his color.
Now i understand that no matter how bad the economy is, some people are still going to vote for their party, dem or republican,...but with the majority of america blaming the republicans for the bad shape the american economy is in, ?Obama should really have a huuge lead over McCain but he doesn\'t,..which leads me to believe some ignorant white folks (and i don\'t mean the dedicated conservatives i mean the ones that are pissed off at the economy) would rather vote for that white person, rather than to see a black person in the WH..cnn did a report asking white people how they felt about havin\' a black prez & the majority of them stated that they weren\'t comfortable with having a black prez.
Which is why i stated that black folks have never had a problem voting for that white candidate in the history of voting in the presdential process,...part of it is probably because we had no rights to vote back in tha day, and when we finally got the chance we embraced it, but the point is that we never had a problem votin\' for that white candidate, but some white folks do have a problem votin\' for black folks...as you can see a couple of issues kinda trickle down to other issues, but that is basically my point.
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The fact that you think Obama isn\'t leading by more solely because of his race is idiotic.
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what a load of crap! Basically what you\'re saying is: there are no black racist voters, but there are white racist voters.
My guess would be they are about evenly spread.
ps. Sharpton is a nutcase, of course no one\'s gonna vote for him.....
edit: I think the problem is that you fail to realize that in the end, racist voters are a small minority, both black and white. They are not capable of seriously influencing the outcome. This is why your sharpton arguement is not valid. The racist voting blacks probably did vote for him, just as much as racist white folks will probably not vote for obama. In the end it evens itself out...
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The fact that you think Obama isn\'t leading by more solely because of his race is idiotic.
I really don\'t think so,...this election is just showing how far we as a nation still has to go as far as race relations are concerned.
what a load of crap! Basically what you\'re saying is: there are no black racist voters, but there are white racist voters.
My guess would be they are about evenly spread.
ps. Sharpton is a nutcase, of course no one\'s gonna vote for him.....
Y\'know i do understand that there are racist black folks,..you have them in every group...i see my point is not getting across...ahhh...since sharpton is highly regarded in the black community he should have gotten most of the black vote, but he didn\'t..i also stated that another afri. amer woman also ran the same year, yet kerry received most of the black vote......for the millionth time,....when a legit black person has the possibilty of becoming prez,..why all of a sudden is it a big issue?....yes it\'s history making, but beyond that?
The media is not even looking at it from that angle,..it\'s more "is america ready for a black prez"...like they\'re afraid of it happening...i don\'t see how it\'s hard for you guys to comprehend that...so i guess whenever a black person goes for the presidency,..this will be a huge issue?...it shouldn\'t be...just treat him the same and attack his policies, but stop asking dumb ass questions like that, so again when black folks vote for the white candidate, everything is fine, thumbs up...no problem....go into the hood right now, and ask those black folks if they would vote for bill clinton again...98% of them would say yes...
So when cnn asked those folks about how they felt \'bout a black prez,..a couple were of the \'ol ignorant hick type, but alot of them were just normal folks that you see on the street or at your workplace....so to me,..it seems that some white folks have more of a problem votin\' for a black person, than blacks do when voting for a white person...so why i say this?...because...in every election black folks have always voted for that white candidate without sayin\' anything stupid like "uhm..i\'m not votin\' for him cause he\'s white"...yes there are racist black folks...but in regards to the votin\' process they still came out and voted for their white candidate.
I know you guys still probably don\'t see where i\'m coming from...but this is how i see it...
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I wonder why black people didn\'t buoy Alan Keyes when he ran for the Presidency in the 1990s. He\'d have made a much better president than Obama.
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African Americans have blamed everything else on racism, why not chalk one more thing up. The fact that you are following some nonsense from one of the media outlets is laughable. Anything to get ratings up.
The difference between Obama and all these other guys you\'re naming is Obama has been backed by the Democrats for a while now.
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African Americans have blamed everything else on racism, why not chalk one more thing up. The fact that you are following some nonsense from one of the media outlets is laughable. Anything to get ratings up.
The difference between Obama and all these other guys you\'re naming is Obama has been backed by the Democrats for a while now.
What have ALL Afri. Americans blamed on racism?....I do tend to follow cnn since they are more balanced than fox,...i notice that they criticize both McCain & Obama quite fairly...and it also hepls to keep up on current events and the economy, wouldn\'t you agree?.....maybe these networks are doing stories for ratings, but the fact that they interviewed those random folks about how they felt about a black prez,..still proves that race is a huge problem for some...
But yeah..i like how you lump all afri. americans like we all play the victim...nice work there sherlock...
I wonder why black people didn\'t buoy Alan Keyes when he ran for the Presidency in the 1990s. He\'d have made a much better president than Obama.
Who was he again?...riiight...that guy was forgettable...
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Yeah, he didn\'t have Obama\'s style and teleprompted charisma. To judge by his popularity, that\'s all it takes to be electable in America these days.
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You mean people make quick judgments on presidents based on their looks and charisma and not about their policies?!? Oh noes, what shall we ever do?
You guys act like this is new, people ALWAYS vote on people who they perceive to be close to them in ideology and appearance. It just happens that obama being black makes it all the more clear. Why do you think nominees pull stunts to make themselves look "working class".
Its not racist that blacks are going to vote for a black president just as its not racist that whites are going to vote white. They just see more of themselves in the nominee.
And for the record, 75% of the people voting are going to be uninformed.
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I\'m hardly shocked, sweetie. It just amazes me how people will elect a person based on the least-important qualifiers, and then sit around bitching for years because those qualifiers turned out to be unimportant. And then four years later, they do it all over again.
Of course, black people mostly vote Democrat, no matter what the guy looks or sounds like. Democrats do their best to reinforce black victimhood, and then do their best to keep blacks as second-class citizens.
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I\'ll write in Ron Paul before I vote for either candidate. Clips can claim there\'s a difference between the two, but if you were given candidate A and candidate B listing only their policies without and pictures or names, it would be hard to distinguish between the two. There might be a few minor differences on some rather insignificant issues.
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edit: I think the problem is that you fail to realize that in the end, racist voters are a small minority, both black and white.
racist voters are not a small minority
what race makes up the majority of voters? white
what sex makes up the majority of voters? male
what age group makes up the majority of voters? 40+
i dont know how many white males over 40 from the US that you know but I dont really see that group being too excited about a black president. people fail to realize that this country still is very racist. now people are just racist in the privacy of there homes as opposed to public displays. I think come November you\'re going to see a impressive display of racism
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I\'m hardly shocked, sweetie. It just amazes me how people will elect a person based on the least-important qualifiers, and then sit around bitching for years because those qualifiers turned out to be unimportant. And then four years later, they do it all over again.
Of course, black people mostly vote Democrat, no matter what the guy looks or sounds like. Democrats do their best to reinforce black victimhood, and then do their best to keep blacks as second-class citizens.
Quoted for the truth.
No other party reinforces the victim mentality better than the Democrats, while doing their best to keep them there.
The Hillary supporters who won\'t vote for Obama are doing it more because of the perceived gender bias Obama got. They feel Hillary was marginalized because she is a woman.
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racist voters are not a small minority
what race makes up the majority of voters? white
what sex makes up the majority of voters? male
what age group makes up the majority of voters? 40+
i dont know how many white males over 40 from the US that you know but I dont really see that group being too excited about a black president. people fail to realize that this country still is very racist. now people are just racist in the privacy of there homes as opposed to public displays. I think come November you\'re going to see a impressive display of racism
I could not agree more...
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racist voters are not a small minority
what race makes up the majority of voters? white
what sex makes up the majority of voters? male
what age group makes up the majority of voters? 40+
i dont know how many white males over 40 from the US that you know but I dont really see that group being too excited about a black president. people fail to realize that this country still is very racist. now people are just racist in the privacy of there homes as opposed to public displays. I think come November you\'re going to see a impressive display of racism
It is more his policies than his color. Colin Powell or Obama? I know I would be pretty hyped if Powell were the GOP nominee.
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I think this thread has evolved into exactly what I thought it would. People still believe that there is an actual difference between the two candidates.
Don\'t blame me, I voted for Kodos.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hyperborea.org%2Fjournal%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2006%2F09%2Fkang-kodos.jpg&hash=0df46c9d9c8ee39e7d28dec2e67bac124e8f165b)
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Classic Homer line
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez5robAWmu4
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I don\'t like Ron Paul, but he is right. Obama is an empty suit.
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I do like Ron Paul, he actually talks more like a dem than a war mongering republican....but Obama is far from being an empty suit & he\'s quite wrong about Obama...
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I do like Ron Paul, he actually talks more like a dem than a war mongering republican....but Obama is far from being an empty suit & he\'s quite wrong about Obama...
He can\'t make a decision without his advisors. How many foreign policy advisors does he have? 300!?!?!?! - according to the NYT anyway. Obama is a joke, if he is elected it will be a one term deal as people will see just how incapable he is. The rest of us aren\'t fooled though. He has no plan other than hope and change, he hasn\'t done a damn thing in the senate since getting elected... once again clips, name something he has done.
Point out where Ron Paul is wrong about Obama. I guess you will duck this question just like others that have been asked regarding what qualifies Obama to lead this country. Being a good teleprompter reader doesn\'t qualify one for the office.
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He can\'t make a decision without his advisors. How many foreign policy advisors does he have? 300!?!?!?! - according to the NYT anyway. Obama is a joke, if he is elected it will be a one term deal as people will see just how incapable he is. The rest of us aren\'t fooled though. He has no plan other than hope and change, he hasn\'t done a damn thing in the senate since getting elected... once again clips, name something he has done.
Point out where Ron Paul is wrong about Obama. I guess you will duck this question just like others that have been asked regarding what qualifies Obama to lead this country. Being a good teleprompter reader doesn\'t qualify one for the office.
Everybody has advisors..what planet are you livin\' on? I already stated that he really hasn\'t really been in the senate long enough to bulid up his resume, but he has done some good things since he\'s been in the senate....so what if he doesn\'t have alot of experience, we already have a prez with experience and you see where that got us....one of the worse presidents in the history of the nation.
So yeah i\'ll take common sense policies over "experienced policies" anyday,.whatever plan Obama has is ten-times better than what is goin\' on in washington right now, bush is just chillin\' right now twindling his fingers until january rolls around...and McCain has been part of this same tired eight year policy of the bush Admin.... gimmie a break...the republicans have had the last 8 years on lock and nothing different has come out of it,.but an 100 billion dollar debt from iraq and an economy that bush states has "slowed down"..:rolleyes:...what an idiot.....but now all of a sudden McCain wants to say he\'s different than bush after basically agreeing with 90% of his policies?....he\'s so old he\'s forgetting that he agrees with everything bush has pushed forward.
He even tried to criticize Obama on two occassions saying that he wasn\'t present for a particular vote..(not sure what it was)...but what he also forgot was that HE TOO was also absent from this so called critical vote on a bill...he\'s done this twice already....and you want somebody in there that\'s as forgetfull as grandpa McCain?...he needs his advisors just to let him know what year he\'s livin in.....never mind the fact if he is elected will he even survive the next 4 years?..isn\'t he like 100?....
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Everybody has advisors..what planet are you livin\' on? I already stated that he really hasn\'t really been in the senate long enough to bulid up his resume, but he has done some good things since he\'s been in the senate....so what if he doesn\'t have alot of experience, we already have a prez with experience and you see where that got us....one of the worse presidents in the history of the nation.
Yes, everyone does have advisors, BUT McCain makes his own decisions and has the EXPERIENCE to do so. Obama does not.
Good things since he has been there? NAME SOME!!!!!
Really, worst president in the history of the US? Elaborate please.
So yeah i\'ll take common sense policies over "experienced policies" anyday,.whatever plan Obama has is ten-times better than what is goin\' on in washington right now, bush is just chillin\' right now twindling his fingers until january rolls around...and McCain has been part of this same tired eight year policy of the bush Admin.... gimmie a break...the republicans have had the last 8 years on lock and nothing different has come out of it,.but an 100 billion dollar debt from iraq and an economy that bush states has "slowed down"..:rolleyes:...what an idiot.....but now all of a sudden McCain wants to say he\'s different than bush after basically agreeing with 90% of his policies?....he\'s so old he\'s forgetting that he agrees with everything bush has pushed forward.
Yes the economy has slowed a bit and you obviously don\'t know what a recession is. Funny how the price of oil is dropping again isn\'t it?
He even tried to criticize Obama on two occassions saying that he wasn\'t present for a particular vote..(not sure what it was)...but what he also forgot was that HE TOO was also absent from this so called critical vote on a bill...he\'s done this twice already....and you want somebody in there that\'s as forgetfull as grandpa McCain?...he needs his advisors just to let him know what year he\'s livin in.....never mind the fact if he is elected will he even survive the next 4 years?..isn\'t he like 100?....
McCain has a long record of voting in the senate, does Obama? Does he? Answer the question clips - what has he done since being elected? Oh thats right he lies and makes up stuff:
Just this past week, we passed out of the U.S. Senate Banking Committee, which is my committee, a bill to call for divestment from Iran.
:liar:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjzb61wfyN0
The fact is HE IS NOT EVEN ON THE COMMITTEE!!!!
Democrat Republican
Christopher J. Dodd Chairman (D-CT) Richard C. Shelby Ranking Member (R-AL)
Tim Johnson (D-SD) Robert F. Bennett (R-UT)
Jack Reed (D-RI) Wayne Allard (R-CO)
Charles E. Schumer (D-NY) Michael B. Enzi (R-WY)
Evan Bayh (D-IN) Chuck Hagel (R-NE)
Tom Carper (D-DE) Jim Bunning (R-KY)
Robert Menendez (D-NJ) Mike Crapo (R-ID)
Daniel K. Akaka (D-HI) Elizabeth Dole (R-NC)
Sherrod Brown (D-OH) Mel Martinez (R-FL)
Robert P. Casey (D-PA) Bob Corker (R-TN)
Jon Tester (D-MT)
http://banking.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Information.Membership
This is the kind of stuff he says all the time and the press ignores it. Obama is a FUCKING LIAR. Go ahead and try and defend it clips... please... I need a good laugh.
That was one example of the many lies this guy tells and people like you ignore it and have the nerve to call everyone else dumb.
As one blog puts it "Is there somewhere we could we institute a National Clearing House to keep track of all the Obama gaffes?"
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Clips-
It\'s not that Ron Paul is more like a Democrat than a Republican... it\'s that the Republicans you see on TV have become so liberal that you begin to think that\'s what a republican is. That\'s why I state that the line between republican and democrat are so fuzzy these days, often times they\'re simply a member of the party in name only. Paul follows a traditional republican platform - i.e. non-intervention, abide by the constitution, sound money, etc.
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McCain makes his own decisions
Tell John I said hi.
Oh wait, you have no idea and probably just heard that on a right wing talk show from someone else who has no idea.
You\'re great at nonsense political spin to make any dem look bad, but it\'s just too much when you double back and heap nonsense political praise on your favorite, too. Picking on a person or group and using labels is easy and frivilous and we could do it with any group be they tree huggers, flip floppers, war mongers or whatever.
If you want to make a point, make one, but reliance on that bully-talking, nothing-backing-it-up, I-know-better-because-I-said-so stance is exactly why we\'re in this shithole as a country right now.
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If you want to make a point, make one, but reliance on that bully-talking, nothing-backing-it-up, I-know-better-because-I-said-so stance is exactly why we\'re in this shithole as a country right now.
na, i blame the gays
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Tell John I said hi.
Oh wait, you have no idea and probably just heard that on a right wing talk show from someone else who has no idea.
You\'re great at nonsense political spin to make any dem look bad, but it\'s just too much when you double back and heap nonsense political praise on your favorite, too. Picking on a person or group and using labels is easy and frivilous and we could do it with any group be they tree huggers, flip floppers, war mongers or whatever.
If you want to make a point, make one, but reliance on that bully-talking, nothing-backing-it-up, I-know-better-because-I-said-so stance is exactly why we\'re in this shithole as a country right now.
Working for Barry\'s campaign? You sure sound like it. No one has yet answered my question as what qualified Barry to be POTUS. He has done nothing and now lies to make it look like he has done something. As I said, you claim this country is in a shithole - back it up. You ask me to make a point and I have. Barry Hussein Obama is a lying sack of shit. If you are too fragile to hear criticism about the Obamessiah then don\'t read it. I know, I know, ObaMoses did make a promise “I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.” He is so full of himself :rolleyes:. He did lie, he does use 300 advisors on foreign policy alone. All you have to do is click on a little link.
To top it off he is running around the Middle East (on our tax dollars) and now Europe to make it look like he is an expert at foreign affairs. Amazing how no press is allowed to ask him questions, yet he has 75 percent of the mainstream media in tow. 20 minutes at the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem does not qualify him. Pretty funny he was heckled there, yet CNN didn\'t report about it. There are also rumors that his basketball shot that has been playing on MSNBC when he was in Kuwait was staged. Military sources have said it took him four or five times to make it, yet we are deceived by people like Chris Matthews into believing that he sunk it the first time. It is a dog and pony show and it is becoming quite pathetic at the lengths the Obama campaign will go to in order fluff up their candidate.
As far as McCain making his own decisions - he does. He doesn\'t have 300 talking heads writing answers for him. McCain doesn\'t have to be shielded from the press, because he can answer questions without getting clearance first. Just look at the NYT article I linked a few posts up if you don\'t believe me. The gaffe\'s like I have pointed out are happening regularly, but it seems intelligence from those viewing it goes at the window and the press gives him a free pass to do it over and over and over again.
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Boy Giga, when you get a someones nuts you are on them for good huh? I remember years ago, these very same arguments. Just change Old man winter with Bush, and Blacky with Kerry.
As for the rest of you, I have no idea why you guys get your panties in a twist over two guys none of you know. BOTH lie to all of us everyday.
Neither one of them will truly get anything done while in office.
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I thought people grew out of name calling when they finally became adults?
I mean, I\'m sure he\'s got some great points in there, but when he sounds like a 5 year old spouting off insults in every sentence, it just comes off as, well, childish.
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I thought people grew out of name calling when they finally became adults?
I mean, I\'m sure he\'s got some great points in there, but when he sounds like a 5 year old spouting off insults in every sentence, it just comes off as, well, childish.
Please quote my "name calling" since you seem to think I am being childish. The only person I am insulting is Obama and using profanity to elaborate a fact isn\'t an insult. God forbid I defend myself from other posters.
I am still waiting for clips to answer my question. He seems to think whites won\'t vote for Obama because he is black, yet I believe a large majority who won\'t vote for him question his positions and lack of experience. Anyone with a brain would question a junior Senator who has come out of nowhere and has no political track record regardless of race or gender.
luckee - some things never change. I am one of them and I call it like I see it.
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Really, worst president in the history of the US? Elaborate please.
Have you\'ve seen his approval ratings?...again what planet are you livin\' on?
To top it off he is running around the Middle East (on our tax dollars) and now Europe to make it look like he is an expert at foreign affairs. Amazing how no press is allowed to ask him questions, yet he has 75 percent of the mainstream media in tow. 20 minutes at the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem does not qualify him. Pretty funny he was heckled there, yet CNN didn\'t report about it. There are also rumors that his basketball shot that has been playing on MSNBC when he was in Kuwait was staged. Military sources have said it took him four or five times to make it, yet we are deceived by people like Chris Matthews into believing that he sunk it the first time. It is a dog and pony show and it is becoming quite pathetic at the lengths the Obama campaign will go to in order fluff up their candidate.
Hmmm....first McCain and crew criticize Obama for not makin\' that trip to Iraq & other countries & then when he does make the trip,..McCain criticizes him for it?..:rolleyes:...who\'s flip-flopping now?...he can\'t have it both ways,...when Obama was makin\' that speech in Germany,...McCain just happened to be eating in a german restuaraunt?(spel) in Ohio?...that\'s too funny...he goes on to say(about Obama) well there are more important matters in the u.s. but he feels taking trips are more important...:rolleyes:
It really helps Obama that just about all of europe is incredibly excited about him, and that can go a long way to restoring the u.s. image on an international level,....since bush\'s arrogance on iraq & his cowboy policies, relationships are still strained between the u.s. and alot of our allies...oh and cnn did report that he got heckled in jerusalem....
I am still waiting for clips to answer my question. He seems to think whites won\'t vote for Obama because he is black, yet I believe a large majority who won\'t vote for him question his positions and lack of experience. Anyone with a brain would question a junior Senator who has come out of nowhere and has no political track record regardless of race or gender.
I still think some white folk won\'t vote for him because of his color,....honestly with the state the country is in, Obama should have a huge lead over McCain, but he doesn\'t,...and everybody wants to act stupid and say "uhm..no racism couldn\'t possibly be the answer"..:rolleyes:....i\'m not sayin\' it\'s the only answer, but it is a huge part of it,....i also believe there are some that are white that truly have doubts about him and those are the folks i respect,...but being that this race is so close, i believe most are voting through their pre-judgement & ignorance of fear of actually havin\' a black prez, than actually sayin\' meh..this guy has no experience...
And what question do you want me to answer?...i think i\'ve answered it already....what qualifies McCain?...what?..bein a war hero?...while i do respect the men uniform, that doesn\'t automatically qualify you....he\'s sayin\' the same thing Obama is sayin in terms of policies....both are saying.."we need to do this & we need to do that" without giving any concrete details...i\'m sure when Obama comes back from his trip, we\'ll see a more fleshed out version of his plan..
McCain has a long record of voting in the senate, does Obama? Does he? Answer the question clips - what has he done since being elected? Oh thats right he lies and makes up stuff:
It would only make sense that grandpa would have a longer record than Obama don\'t you think?...you\'re funny,...how about you show me a list of what McCain has done,..since you want to compare notes....everybody is riding that bulls**t inexperience excuse,...if you have somebody comin\' thru with a clean slate and new ideas and a vision to actually implement it, i\'ll take fresh & new & smart anyday over old, tired & tried experience....
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So if the person being slandered isn\'t around its ok? Usage of profanity and name-calling NEVER proves an argument, only makes yourself feel better and look like a fool. You sound like a redneck when you make those insults and it certainly doesn\'t help you drive home a point like you think you are doing. For all I know you could be a very intelligent person, but you certainly don\'t sound like it and it puts you in a position on the forum where you just sound like the raving right wing nutjub even when that might not be the case.
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So if the person being slandered isn\'t around its ok? Usage of profanity and name-calling NEVER proves an argument, only makes yourself feel better and look like a fool. You sound like a redneck when you make those insults and it certainly doesn\'t help you drive home a point like you think you are doing. For all I know you could be a very intelligent person, but you certainly don\'t sound like it and it puts you in a position on the forum where you just sound like the raving right wing nutjub even when that might not be the case.
While Giga and I often share different opinions. Do not sit there and claim he is unintelligent. If this is all you have, pls educate yourself and come back later.(no giga, we still have to fight :) )
I think he just believes in what he does, such an extent he gets pissed off with ppl that come in and just randomly throw shit out without proof. He will make you work for a post as I will!
I use a shit load of mutherfuckin profanity. It make no motherfuckin difference in content. Im a street guy with country background. Fuck you pay! DO not like it? Ignore or reply but please do not let a little bit a m,otherfuckin profanity get in the way as it is only an excuse for those without one. BITCHES!
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I\'m simply pointing out that how he comes across on these boards is probably not how he is. I did not imply he\'s unintelligent, just that his vocabulary doesn\'t exactly help him prove a point.
Internet tough guys, scary stuff....
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You certainly implied it by stating he sounded like a redneck.
Internet tough guys? Thats tough to you? From a small Mormon town are we?
Go away! :fu:
WOW, now Im defending that closed mined redneck fuck. :D
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Funny how the price of oil is dropping again isn\'t it?
It is isn\'t it?...it\'s also funny how fast it\'s dropping ever since the gov\'t announced it was going to look into price maniplulation of oil companies & investigate those speculators on wall st. responsible for those price hikes thru those scare tactics that they practice...
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Have you\'ve seen his approval ratings?...again what planet are you livin\' on?
Have you seen Congress\'s? Which, I might add Obama is a part of? No one is happy with the government as a whole right now. But, your claim that he is the worst president in history is unfounded, since you can not make that claim as only time will tell.
Hmmm....first McCain and crew criticize Obama for not makin\' that trip to Iraq & other countries & then when he does make the trip,..McCain criticizes him for it?..:rolleyes:...who\'s flip-flopping now?...he can\'t have it both ways,...when Obama was makin\' that speech in Germany,...McCain just happened to be eating in a german restuaraunt?(spel) in Ohio?...that\'s too funny...he goes on to say(about Obama) well there are more important matters in the u.s. but he feels taking trips are more important...:rolleyes:
It really helps Obama that just about all of europe is incredibly excited about him, and that can go a long way to restoring the u.s. image on an international level,....since bush\'s arrogance on iraq & his cowboy policies, relationships are still strained between the u.s. and alot of our allies...oh and cnn did report that he got heckled in jerusalem....
The point McCain was making is that he should have made the trip long ago before he took a position on troop withdrawal. He didn\'t know the situation on the ground. As for his trip to Europe? That is a complete waste of time - why did he give in speech in Berlin? Are the German\'s voting this election? Our relationship with Europe is fine - you really need to stop reading off the far left talking points... "cowboy policies" :rolleyes: McCain is right, he didn\'t need to run around Europe when there are issues here to discuss. Speaking of which, why is Obama so afraid to debate McCain? Why won\'t he set any dates or accept any for that matter?
I still think some white folk won\'t vote for him because of his color,....honestly with the state the country is in, Obama should have a huge lead over McCain, but he doesn\'t,...and everybody wants to act stupid and say "uhm..no racism couldn\'t possibly be the answer"..:rolleyes:....i\'m not sayin\' it\'s the only answer, but it is a huge part of it,....i also believe there are some that are white that truly have doubts about him and those are the folks i respect,...but being that this race is so close, i believe most are voting through their pre-judgement & ignorance of fear of actually havin\' a black prez, than actually sayin\' meh..this guy has no experience...
And what question do you want me to answer?...i think i\'ve answered it already....what qualifies McCain?...what?..bein a war hero?...while i do respect the men uniform, that doesn\'t automatically qualify you....he\'s sayin\' the same thing Obama is sayin in terms of policies....both are saying.."we need to do this & we need to do that" without giving any concrete details...i\'m sure when Obama comes back from his trip, we\'ll see a more fleshed out version of his plan..
True, some whites won\'t vote for him because he is black, but most do not take color into the equation. You are so wrong about the reason he doesn\'t have a larger lead - it is his policies and lack of experience - and now his ego. Let\'s put it this way clips - if Colin Powell were running against a white democrat - I can tell you that the people who are not voting for Obama now would vote for Powell. Why? Because of his experience and his policies. Get it through your head - Obama lacks substance.
It would only make sense that grandpa would have a longer record than Obama don\'t you think?...you\'re funny,...how about you show me a list of what McCain has done,..since you want to compare notes....everybody is riding that bulls**t inexperience excuse,...if you have somebody comin\' thru with a clean slate and new ideas and a vision to actually implement it, i\'ll take fresh & new & smart anyday over old, tired & tried experience....
You keep repeated the same slogans, which in themselves lack substance. What are Obama\'s new ideas and vision? I have asked you this before and you can\'t answer the question. No Obama supporter can. Have you even asked yourself this question or are you caught up in the cult of personality?
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You certainly implied it by stating he sounded like a redneck.
Internet tough guys? Thats tough to you? From a small Mormon town are we?
Go away! :fu:
WOW, now Im defending that closed mined redneck fuck. :D
We need a good car thread to start in OT... Even I get tired of talking about this shit non stop.
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You certainly implied it by stating he sounded like a redneck.
Internet tough guys? Thats tough to you? From a small Mormon town are we?
Go away! :fu:
WOW, now Im defending that closed mined redneck fuck. :D
Perception and reality are two very different things my friend, perhaps you should look it up sometime.
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is obama president yet?
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Have you seen Congress\'s? Which, I might add Obama is a part of? No one is happy with the government as a whole right now. But, your claim that he is the worst president in history is unfounded, since you can not make that claim as only time will tell.
Hmmm....who\'s been in charge of congress longer?....riiight...the republicans...i already stated that both sides have been acting like a**holes as to the reason why nothing is being done, both sides are playin\' the politics game....as far as bush bein\'the worst prez?...let\'s see....an unjust war,...over 4000 americans killed for no reason really, since saddam had nothing to do with 911, an 100 billion dollar debt from his war, a 600 billion dollar u.s. embassy bein\' built in iraq *that nobody seems to notice btw*..strained relationships internationally because of his arrogance, the economy under his watch....i could go on & on...
The point McCain was making is that he should have made the trip long ago before he took a position on troop withdrawal. He didn\'t know the situation on the ground. As for his trip to Europe? That is a complete waste of time - why did he give in speech in Berlin? Are the German\'s voting this election? Our relationship with Europe is fine - you really need to stop reading off the far left talking points... "cowboy policies" McCain is right, he didn\'t need to run around Europe when there are issues here to discuss. Speaking of which, why is Obama so afraid to debate McCain? Why won\'t he set any dates or accept any for that matter?
Nice try...keep reaching...everybody knows he was too busy involved with hillary trying to become the nominee, nobody expected their race to go as long as it did, so he really didn\'t have any time....McCain\'s a hypocrite,..he blasts him for not going, then when does go McCain states "uhm we have more important matters in the u.s."....pathetic...as you very well know..the republican race for the nominee was over months before the dems had their nominee....and while hillary & Obama was battling it out, McCain had time to make those trips over seas and to iraq.
And Obama will debate McCain when he\'s ready, not when McCain says so...
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Hmmm....who\'s been in charge of congress longer?....riiight...the republicans...i already stated that both sides have been acting like a**holes as to the reason why nothing is being done, both sides are playin\' the politics game....as far as bush bein\'the worst prez?...let\'s see....an unjust war,...over 4000 americans killed for no reason really, since saddam had nothing to do with 911, an 100 billion dollar debt from his war, a 600 billion dollar u.s. embassy bein\' built in iraq *that nobody seems to notice btw*..strained relationships internationally because of his arrogance, the economy under his watch....i could go on & on...
Look at the trend in Congressional approval - it took a huge drop when the Dems took over.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/congressional_job_approval-903.html#polls
Unjust war? How so? Iraq violated UN Security Council Resolutions. 4000 Americans killed. It is war and it is an all volunteer military - in 5 years that is not a huge amount compared to other wars.
I have no clue what you are babbling about in regards to the embassy in Baghdad. Who cares?
Strained relationships with Europe? Once again who cares? Do they pay taxes here? Do they vote here? Who will they come crying to if the shit hits the fan?
Nice try...keep reaching...everybody knows he was too busy involved with hillary trying to become the nominee, nobody expected their race to go as long as it did, so he really didn\'t have any time....McCain\'s a hypocrite,..he blasts him for not going, then when does go McCain states "uhm we have more important matters in the u.s."....pathetic...as you very well know..the republican race for the nominee was over months before the dems had their nominee....and while hillary & Obama was battling it out, McCain had time to make those trips over seas and to iraq.
No, learn to read clips - McCain blasted him for going to Europe and acting like the President. Not for going to Iraq or Afghanistan. Was the trip to Europe necessary? No. Was it in bad taste to meet with foreign heads of state? Yes.
McCain has been to Iraq numerous times and based his policies on what he has seen over there. Obama made up his mind before even setting foot over there. Huge difference and that is what he was getting beat up over.
And Obama will debate McCain when he\'s ready, not when McCain says so...
Don\'t you mean only when the teleprompter says so?
clips - stop avoiding my one question: What great visions and ideas does Obama have? You keep ducking it. You keep referring to them, yet I really am starting to believe you don\'t know of any... oh wait - he is black! That\'s it!
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Unjust war? How so? Iraq violated UN Security Council Resolutions. 4000 Americans killed. It is war and it is an all volunteer military - in 5 years that is not a huge amount compared to other wars.
Please...right after 9/11 bush focused soley on iraq,..he was even more focused on iraq than afghanastan.....the sanctions was keepin\' saddam in check,...there was no need for regime change....trust,..i wanted some revenge too after 911, but goin\' after saddam was the wrong thing to do...the u.s. clearly looked like a bully in the eyes of the world, and we were...
I have no clue what you are babbling about in regards to the embassy in Baghdad. Who cares?
Hmmm...for a prez that states he only wants iraq to be secure & to govern itself so we can leave, don\'t you think having a massive 600 billion dollar embassy in their country says otherwise?...
Strained relationships with Europe? Once again who cares? Do they pay taxes here? Do they vote here? Who will they come crying to if the shit hits the fan?
So you think for the rest of eternity that the u.s, will be able to handle it\'s problems on it\'s own?.....let\'s not have amnesia all of a sudden,.when s**t started to hit the fan in iraq..*around the time when the insurgents was draggin\' u.s. soldiers in tha streets and cuttin people\'s heads off*.....bush went back to u.n. and asked for help from those same countries that he told "we\'ll go it alone"....you and i both know that the u.s. cannot handle another iraq situation anytime soon,..the u.s. military is strained because of the recklessness of this president. And this is a guy with "experience"...:rolleyes:...strong relationships are needed by all countries to combat the people that want to harm us all...any other type of thinking is flawed logic..
No, learn to read clips - McCain blasted him for going to Europe and acting like the President. Not for going to Iraq or Afghanistan. Was the trip to Europe necessary? No. Was it in bad taste to meet with foreign heads of state? Yes.
He\'s acting presidential??....wow,..are you serious?...when we take a look at both Obama & McCain you never said to yourself.."yeah i can see McCain being the president... he has the poise & demeanor of a prez".<---- i don\'t think McCain does imo but i\'m just sayin.....So now that "Obama wants to beef up his international & foreign policy skills, now he\'s looking TOO presidential?...you\'re unbelievable.....he wants to look presidential in the eyes of the american public and across the world since McCain & crew stated that he has no experience.
But since he\'s been recieving so much high praise in iraq & europe McCain & crew have been acting jealous...crying and saying.."it\'s not fair i don\'t receive the same amount of coverage as Obama"...i say to McCain...just be careful what you wish for...he ragged on Obama for months about iraq, and when he finally goes he whines about it....pathetic....so what if he meets with other leaders?...he\'s making it known to McCain and to the world, that he\'s ready to step up to the plate on an international level, and if that makes him look presidential, then i say "mission accomplished", because he\'ll only gain more respect by his critics and the american public by doing so...
clips - stop avoiding my one question: What great visions and ideas does Obama have? You keep ducking it. You keep referring to them, yet I really am starting to believe you don\'t know of any... oh wait - he is black! That\'s it!
I answered that already, but you seem to be ducking my question....i asked you to list what qualifies your boy McCain to be prez,..and you never answered that,..if you put out a list..i\'ll surf the net to find Obama\'s ...but since McCain is older like i already stated, his resume is going to be longer,...older doesn\'t always means wiser btw...
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is obama president yet?
Please tell me your joking. This message is for clips too. Our country may not be in the greatest of shape... in fact, its in terrible shape, but Obama would only make things worse.
Remember when Hillary accused all the Republicans of being war mongering politicians. Not only is this not true (Ron Paul voted AGAINST the war), but Hillary voted FOR the war. The democratic foreign policy would be a carbon copy of Bush\'s, don\'t kid yourself.
Obama is not the answer. McCain is not the answer. There is no answer because our government won\'t allow it.
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Well the question is then who truly controls the government and how can the citizens free their selves from the system for which Ron Paul was warning people about?
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Well the question is then who truly controls the government and how can the citizens free their selves from the system for which Ron Paul was warning people about?
It\'s too late my friend. We let ourselves become slaves of our government. We let them take about a third of our income, and we say nothing. We let them have a military presence in 130 countries, costing us billions of dollars annually, and we say nothing. We continue to let them treat the constitution as if it were a history report, and we say nothing.
Why do we say nothing? Partly because we think this is the way its supposed to be. Or maybe its because the government is so big now that it wouldn\'t matter. Anyone who even dares to challenge our current system gets put in the corner at the political debates in favor of those who preach the status quo.
That\'s the beautiful thing about deception. Someone like Obama can tout "change" as a political slogan. He doesn\'t mean that. He wants MORE government spending and that means more worker\'s tax dollars. He favors our current foreign policy. He wants even more mindless social programs. So how is this different than what we\'ve had to deal with the past 20-25 years? It\'s not. Obama or McCain, take your pick, you\'re fucked either way. It just depends if you prefer someone who\'s up front about it, or someone who\'s deceiving you.
Change. Nothing short of anarchy will bring change. I don\'t see that happening anytime soon.
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Couldnt agree more. :thumb:
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Please...right after 9/11 bush focused soley on iraq,..he was even more focused on iraq than afghanastan.....the sanctions was keepin\' saddam in check,...there was no need for regime change....trust,..i wanted some revenge too after 911, but goin\' after saddam was the wrong thing to do...the u.s. clearly looked like a bully in the eyes of the world, and we were...
Sanctions were keeping him in check? Don\'t think so. He was trying to acquire wmd\'s and he was firing at our planes in the no fly zone. Oh, and this just in - we are winning the war in Iraq according to the AP, which says a lot. Guess that surge NoBama was against actually worked.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080726/ap_on_an/iraq_winning_the_war
Hmmm...for a prez that states he only wants iraq to be secure & to govern itself so we can leave, don\'t you think having a massive 600 billion dollar embassy in their country says otherwise?...
What? In that section of the world I would want the best defense money could buy. Also, this proves your inability to READ clips - it is $592 million - NOT BILLION. Big difference there chief. You are going way off topic with your idiotic complaint about how much our embassy costs.
So you think for the rest of eternity that the u.s, will be able to handle it\'s problems on it\'s own?.....let\'s not have amnesia all of a sudden,.when s**t started to hit the fan in iraq..*around the time when the insurgents was draggin\' u.s. soldiers in tha streets and cuttin people\'s heads off*.....bush went back to u.n. and asked for help from those same countries that he told "we\'ll go it alone"....you and i both know that the u.s. cannot handle another iraq situation anytime soon,..the u.s. military is strained because of the recklessness of this president. And this is a guy with "experience"...:rolleyes:...strong relationships are needed by all countries to combat the people that want to harm us all...any other type of thinking is flawed logic..
You are delusional. We don\'t need "help" in the way you think we do. It is symbolic and if you don\'t believe me - click on the link below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinational_force_in_Iraq
The other countries sending troops there are a drop in the bucket when compared to US troop presence. Back up the shit you claim with facts.
He\'s acting presidential??....wow,..are you serious?...when we take a look at both Obama & McCain you never said to yourself.."yeah i can see McCain being the president... he has the poise & demeanor of a prez".<---- i don\'t think McCain does imo but i\'m just sayin.....So now that "Obama wants to beef up his international & foreign policy skills, now he\'s looking TOO presidential?...you\'re unbelievable.....he wants to look presidential in the eyes of the american public and across the world since McCain & crew stated that he has no experience.
He is acting like he is already president - he is not. I said acting like the President - not presidential - once again you fail to comprehend what you read. Only the President meets with heads of foreign states - not candidates. Four weeks will do nothing for his foreign policy skills. He isn\'t looking "presidential" - he is acting like he is already elected. He wouldn\'t even meet with injured troops in Germany because he couldn\'t get a photo op - which he lied about by saying the DOD said he couldn\'t go. He could, just not with the reporters and his campaign staff.
But since he\'s been recieving so much high praise in iraq & europe McCain & crew have been acting jealous...crying and saying.."it\'s not fair i don\'t receive the same amount of coverage as Obama"...i say to McCain...just be careful what you wish for...he ragged on Obama for months about iraq, and when he finally goes he whines about it....pathetic....so what if he meets with other leaders?...he\'s making it known to McCain and to the world, that he\'s ready to step up to the plate on an international level, and if that makes him look presidential, then i say "mission accomplished", because he\'ll only gain more respect by his critics and the american public by doing so...
His trip was laughable. McCain is hardly jealous and was poking fun by visiting towns in the US by the same name. It is true the press is all for Obama - he gives them that special feeling that runs up their leg :rolleyes:. Oh and by the way the troops that he did visit thought he was a dipshit and was totally like a fish out of water.
I answered that already, but you seem to be ducking my question....i asked you to list what qualifies your boy McCain to be prez,..and you never answered that,..if you put out a list..i\'ll surf the net to find Obama\'s ...but since McCain is older like i already stated, his resume is going to be longer,...older doesn\'t always means wiser btw...
You did??? where!?!?!?! McCain\'s experience in the Senate alone qualifies him. Obama has done nothing since he has been elected. Once again what has HE DONE???? ANSWER THE QUESTION - How is he qualifed to lead this country??????????? You are just like Unicron who won\'t answer questions about statements he has made.
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Sanctions were keeping him in check? Don\'t think so. He was trying to acquire wmd\'s and he was firing at our planes in the no fly zone. Oh, and this just in - we are winning the war in Iraq according to the AP, which says a lot. Guess that surge NoBama was against actually worked.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080726/...inning_the_war
It means nothing really...we should not have been there in the place...you want to condone an unjust war just because bush & co says so?..feel free to be sheep if you want....Saddam was not responsible for 9/11 and he had no wmd\'s or direct links to al queada(spel)....it\'s funny how this war went down,..."we\'re going to find wmd\'s"....then "we\'re going to liberate the iraqi people"..and the american public eats it up and acts like invading that country was a good thing..:rolleyes:...it\'s good that violence has come down, in iraq, but that still doesn\'t dismiss the fact that it was wrong in the first place...
And didn\'t McCain stated some time last year that you could walk freely in iraq? Talkin\' about the rseidents were openly buying food from markets and business was thriving...:rolleyes:..he also stated that with a million soldiers around him & about 7 choppers flying overhead....kinda hard to trust somebody who\'s as delusional as McCain was back then..instead of bein\' honest of the situation back then, he practically lied about it...
What? In that section of the world I would want the best defense money could buy. Also, this proves your inability to READ clips - it is $592 million - NOT BILLION. Big difference there chief. You are going way off topic with your idiotic complaint about how much our embassy costs.
Oh sure..592 million is waaay different than 600 billion...:rolleyes: that is still alot of money....and that wasn\'t my point,..my point was that if we weren\'t planning on staying there, why is that massive embassy in iraq?...right so we can have a presence there...a HUGE presence btw...
He is acting like he is already president - he is not. I said acting like the President - not presidential - once again you fail to comprehend what you read. Only the President meets with heads of foreign states - not candidates. Four weeks will do nothing for his foreign policy skills. He isn\'t looking "presidential" - he is acting like he is already elected.
Hmmm...so when McCain met with leaders of Canada, Columbia & other leaders of the world while hillary and obama were still fighting for the noiminee, he wasn\'t acting like the president?...:rolleyes:....keep reachin\' and again McCain can\'t have it both ways and in saying so he\'s being a huge hypocrite...nice try tho...
You are delusional. We don\'t need "help" in the way you think we do. It is symbolic and if you don\'t believe me - click on the link below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multina..._force_in_Iraq
The other countries sending troops there are a drop in the bucket when compared to US troop presence. Back up the shit you claim with facts
If we didn\'t need help then explain why bush ran back to u.n. for "help" when s**t started to get crazy over there....of course we had the most troops over there, we were the one\'s who initiated the war!!...my point is that the u.s. cannot fight two major fronts at the same time... in order for them to squash some of the violence in iraq, they had to add more troops,...in doing so, they could not shift any troops to afghanastan...when the u.s. can handle two major scenario\'s at the same time, that is when we won\'t need any help....furthermore if we didn\'t need any help,..we just would have done everything instead of asking other countries to assist us in iraq.
His trip was laughable. McCain is hardly jealous and was poking fun by visiting towns in the US by the same name. It is true the press is all for Obama - he gives them that special feeling that runs up their leg . Oh and by the way the troops that he did visit thought he was a dipshit and was totally like a fish out of water.
Funny..i didn\'t hear that bit about the troops thinking he was out of place?...*link?*...but let\'s be honest, you truly believe that every soldier loves McCain just because he\'a vet? of course not...so i do believe that there are probably soldiers that might not like Obama..see how that works?..it goes both ways....oh and his trip was a huge success..compare that to when bush makes trips around the world,..he\'s practically hated everywhere...his trip showed that he can repair the strained relationships caused by bush\'s blunders and arrogance...
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Oh sure..592 million is waaay different than 600 billion...:rolleyes: that is still alot of money....and that wasn\'t my point,..my point was that if we weren\'t planning on staying there, why is that massive embassy in iraq?...right so we can have a presence there...a HUGE presence btw...
If you had simply said "mea culpa, that was a typo", I wouldn\'t have said anything. Since you didn\'t, and you seem to think there\'s not much of a difference between half a billion and half a trillion, there shouldn\'t be much difference in a Honda Civic costing $15,000, and one costing fifteen million.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk1WkmioQvA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=styYIG-fiEc
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Go kill yourself.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk1WkmioQvA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=styYIG-fiEc
I\'m not big on conspiracy issues..if Ron Paul and this other guy are so big and knowledgeable about what\'s goin\'on, they\'re in a waay better position to do something about it than the average american, yet they sit here doing an interview about it...:rolleyes:....next!!!
I believe some of what they\'re saying, but to say that paper money we recieve isn\'t really true currency?...you have to buy everything with that paper money.(food, gas etc)...all the gov\'t\'s of the world have some type of paper currency,..so now is it all just one huge world wide conspiracy?...
These guys talk a good talk, but after the camera stops rollin\' they probably go sit on the couch with their hands in their pants like Al Bundy.
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Man, you babble a lot. The situation in Iraq HAS improved, get over it.
Oh sure..592 million is waaay different than 600 billion...:rolleyes: that is still alot of money....and that wasn\'t my point,..my point was that if we weren\'t planning on staying there, why is that massive embassy in iraq?...right so we can have a presence there...a HUGE presence btw...
An embassy = huge presence in Iraq??? You are crazy. We have expensive embassies in most countries and I fail to see your point here. You are making assumptions on things that you have no proof of.
Hmmm...so when McCain met with leaders of Canada, Columbia & other leaders of the world while hillary and obama were still fighting for the noiminee, he wasn\'t acting like the president?...:rolleyes:....keep reachin\' and again McCain can\'t have it both ways and in saying so he\'s being a huge hypocrite...nice try tho...
Link please - he did not meet with the Canadian Prime Minister. Also McCain didn\'t give speeches at these events. What is Obama campaigning for? World Leader?
Speaking of having it both ways - Obama is the king of trying to have it both ways.
http://www.bothwaysbarack.com/
If we didn\'t need help then explain why bush ran back to u.n. for "help" when s**t started to get crazy over there....of course we had the most troops over there, we were the one\'s who initiated the war!!...my point is that the u.s. cannot fight two major fronts at the same time... in order for them to squash some of the violence in iraq, they had to add more troops,...in doing so, they could not shift any troops to afghanastan...when the u.s. can handle two major scenario\'s at the same time, that is when we won\'t need any help....furthermore if we didn\'t need any help,..we just would have done everything instead of asking other countries to assist us in iraq.
Link please.
Funny..i didn\'t hear that bit about the troops thinking he was out of place?...*link?*...but let\'s be honest, you truly believe that every soldier loves McCain just because he\'a vet? of course not...so i do believe that there are probably soldiers that might not like Obama..see how that works?..it goes both ways....oh and his trip was a huge success..compare that to when bush makes trips around the world,..he\'s practically hated everywhere...his trip showed that he can repair the strained relationships caused by bush\'s blunders and arrogance...
Unlike you I have friends in the military and a few who were actually at the Obama event. Most of the military thinks he is a joke and I can say this with certainty.
An email from a 23 year veteran of more than one branch of the military:
MY MEETING (ALMOST) WITH OBAMA
<...>
I had a first hand view of Barrack Obama\'s "fact finding" mission, when he passed through this base.
While I can\'t name it, it\'s one of the largest air bases in the region, with up to 8000 troops (depending on influxes and transients in mobilization/demobilization status), mostly Airmen and Soldiers, but some Marines, Sailors, Koreans, Japanese, Aussies, Brits, US Civil Service, contractors including KBR, Blackwater and Halliburton, among others in the news. The overwhelming majority of all of these are professional, courteous and disciplined. Problems are rare.
Casualties are also rare. This base has a large hospital for evacuation—twenty plus beds. I have yet to see a casualty in one, though I am told there are about three evacuations a week through this region, of which two on average are things like sports injuries, vehicle accidents or duty related falls and such. You can tell from the news that the war is going well. The ghouls are now focusing on Afghanistan, since there is no blood to type with here.
This oped is of course subjective and limited, but I will try to present the facts as I saw them. I wasn\'t able to see much, which makes a point all by itself.
When his plane arrived (also containing Senators Reed and Hagel, but the news has hardly mentioned them), there was a "ramp freeze." This means if you are on the flight line, and not directly involved with the event in question, you stay where you are and don\'t move. For a combat flight arriving or departing, this takes about ten minutes, and involves the active runway and crossing taxiways only. For Obama\'s flight, this took 90 minutes, during which time a variety of military missions came grinding to a halt. Obviously, this visit was important, right?
95% of base wanted nothing to do with him. I have met three troops who support him, and literally hundreds who regard him as a buffoon, a charlatan, a hindrance to their mission or a flat out enemy of progress. Even when the rumors were publicly admitted, almost no one left their duty sections to try to see him, unless they were officers whose presence was officially required.
Mister Obama\'s motorcade drove up from the flight line and entered the dining hall toward the end of lunch time. Diners were chased out and told to make other arrangements for food, in the middle of the duty day.
Now, there are close to 8000 troops on the base and its nearby satellites. No one came up from the Army side (except perhaps a few ranking officers). The airbase resumed operation, once he cleared the flightline, as if nothing had happened. The dining hall holds about 300 people and was not full. The troops did not want to meet him and the feeling was apparently mutual. In attendance, besides the Official Entourage, were the base\'s senior officers, some support personnel, and a very few carefully vetted supporters who\'d made special arrangements. No photos were allowed. No question and answer with the troops. No real acknowledgment that the troops existed.
Obama left around 1530, during the Muslim Call to Prayer, so he\'s not a practicing Muslim. He was in a convoy guarded by (so I\'m told) both State Department and Secret Service Personnel.
Less than three hours…
Within 48 hours he was in Afghanistan. It takes most troops longer than that to in-process and get cleared on safety, threats, policies and such. Yet he somehow made a strategic summary by not talking to anyone and not seeing anything.
Twenty-four hours after that, he was in Kuwait, back here, and then home, so fast we didn\'t even know he arrived the second time at this base.
I can\'t imagine any officer of the few he met told him anything other than what they tell the troops, and what their own leadership at the Pentagon tell them—we\'re winning. Our troops are stomping the guts out of the insurgency. The surge worked and is working. If the insurgents have to divert to Afghanistan, it means they can\'t fight in Iraq anymore. We should not change the rules and retreat with the enemy on the ropes as we did in Vietnam. We should finish kicking their teeth in. The Iraqi government now controls 10 of 18 provinces, with US assistance in the rest. Let us win the war. 90% of the troops I know, even those opposed to the war, say that is the way to win. Victory comes from winning, not from "change." In fact, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs is on record as opposing Obama\'s strategic theory.
Since he obviously knew in advance that\'s what they\'d tell him, and since he didn\'t care to talk to the troops (we\'re told by the Left that the troops are horrified, shocked, forced to commit atrocities with tears in their eyes, distraught, burned out, fed up with losing, etc) and find out how they feel, and was barely in country long enough to need a shower and a change of clothes, we can only call this for what it is.
A disgraceful PR stunt, using the troops as a platform for his ego and campaign.
In comparison, I\'ve seen four star generals and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff on this base. They each held an all ranks call, met with and briefed the personnel, and took questions on every subject from tour length to uniform design to rules of engagement to weapon choice to long term policy, from the newest airmen to the senior NCO with TEN 120-180 day tours since Sep 11. It\'s very clear they want to know what the troops think, and to keep them informed of events. It\'s equally clear mister Obama does not.
From here we must move to my op part of the oped.
Obama clearly doesn\'t care about the troops, doesn\'t care about America, doesn\'t care about anything except hearing his own voice and the chance to sit at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue…From where he\'ll bring us the proven Democratic wartime leadership of Bosnia and the Balkans (US forces still there), Somalia (US forces prevailed despite being ill equipped by executive order, and taking heavy casualties), Haiti (what were we doing there again?), Desert One (oops?), Vietnam (where we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory), Korea (still there), WWI, and the fluke success of WWII won by such wonderful liberal notions as concentration camps for Japanese Americans, nukes, FBI investigations of waitresses who dated soldiers in case they were "morally corrupt" and the (valid) occupation of and continued presence in Italy, Japan and Germany for 60 years, which they are conveniently pretending won\'t happen with Iraq.
That\'s not "change." That\'s "failure we can do without."
Also Obama has no clue about the every day life of a soldier:
http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx?id=9577a903-68bd-48dd-8082-006d011eed8a
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http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=the+power+of+nightmares&hl=en&sitesearch=video.google.com#
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An embassy = huge presence in Iraq??? You are crazy. We have expensive embassies in most countries and I fail to see your point here. You are making assumptions on things that you have no proof of.
*sigh*...i know we have embassy\'s in other countries,..you keep missing the point...if bush stated that he doesn\'t want a u.s. presence there..he just wants iraq to govern itself so we can leave, WHY is there a huge embassy bein built over there?....don\'t be sheep, the u.s. invaded iraq cause it was 2nd largest producer of oil at the time, and the u.s. wanted an ally in iraq and a solid foothold in the heart of the middle east...
Link please.
Link?...if you\'ve followed the war in iraq early on you would\'ve noticed when bush ran back to u.n. for help....you just can\'t sit here and pic out events of the war that you like...if we\'re going to have a real discussion, let\'s talk about all the facts of the war, not just the one\'s you see fit.
It took me awhile but here\'s the link...
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu8bZ241IezAA1PJXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEybTNhdWoyBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA0RGUjVfODI-/SIG=12q3e8uo5/EXP=1217342809/**http%3a//www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-09-03-bush-analysis_x.htm
Unlike you I have friends in the military and a few who were actually at the Obama event. Most of the military thinks he is a joke and I can say this with certainty.
An email from a 23 year veteran of more than one branch of the military:
And doesn\'t this proves my point that some troops proabably don\'t like Obama like i\'ve already stated?...what\'s your point?...i already know your friend here doesn\'t like Obama, but i\'m not going to take this one e-mail and say that he represents what the majority of troops feel about Obama,...i\'m sure there are troops there that are hopin\' Obama becomes the prez so he can end the war...and why would i open a link that\'s going to say only negative things about Obama?..both of those links have a negative slant against him...and fox news?...you\'re kidding right?
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Oh sure..592 million is waaay different than 600 billion...:rolleyes: that is still alot of money....and that wasn\'t my point,..my point was that if we weren\'t planning on staying there, why is that massive embassy in iraq?...right so we can have a presence there...a HUGE presence btw...
i\'ve stayed out of this conversation so far because basically everyones debating on whos the tallest midget but i gotta cal you out on this one clip
600 billion is 1000x more than 592 million. please if you going to present your statements as facts check your facts first and dont pretend that a $599,408,000,000 mistake is no big deal:rolleyes:
yes that is still a lot of money but there will only be room for 1000 people in the embassy. i hardly call that a "presence" considering the majority will be administrative staff who will probably never be able to leave the compound at most they\'ll have a company or 2 of marines there which will total 100-200 per company which is not much military force for intimidating the population as you\'re insinuating. the whole point of the war now is to establish a stable government that the U.S. can have diplomatic relations with. Diplomatic relations require an embassy, building an embassy that doesnt fall apart everytime an insurgent fires a rocket into it and 1000 people have to live in is gonna cost some cash
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*sigh*...i know we have embassy\'s in other countries,..you keep missing the point...if bush stated that he doesn\'t want a u.s. presence there..he just wants iraq to govern itself so we can leave, WHY is there a huge embassy bein built over there?....don\'t be sheep, the u.s. invaded iraq cause it was 2nd largest producer of oil at the time, and the u.s. wanted an ally in iraq and a solid foothold in the heart of the middle east...
Most US embassies are in need up security upgrades or have had the upgrades done. Do you even know what an embassy is for clips? By the way you are getting your panties in a wad over this I don\'t think you do. The Baghdad embassy is no exception. We already have an ally in the heart of the Middle East - Israel.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25329290/
Link?...if you\'ve followed the war in iraq early on you would\'ve noticed when bush ran back to u.n. for help....you just can\'t sit here and pic out events of the war that you like...if we\'re going to have a real discussion, let\'s talk about all the facts of the war, not just the one\'s you see fit.
It took me awhile but here\'s the link...
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu8bZ241IezAA1PJXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEybTNhdWoyBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA0RGUjVfODI-/SIG=12q3e8uo5/EXP=1217342809/**http%3a//www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-09-03-bush-analysis_x.htm
This was in 2003!!!!! Right after the war was over and it was to get help for reconstruction. Derrrr...
And doesn\'t this proves my point that some troops proabably don\'t like Obama like i\'ve already stated?...what\'s your point?...i already know your friend here doesn\'t like Obama, but i\'m not going to take this one e-mail and say that he represents what the majority of troops feel about Obama,...i\'m sure there are troops there that are hopin\' Obama becomes the prez so he can end the war...and why would i open a link that\'s going to say only negative things about Obama?..both of those links have a negative slant against him...and fox news?...you\'re kidding right?
Fox News is > all the other US networks. Since when did the news have to right to create the news instead of report it. You were talking about having it both ways and I just showed you Obama is the one who wants it both ways. Discredit the video all you want, but it is true. It is also true our troops watch Fox because it gives a more fair view of the news as opposed to CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, etc.
Trust me clips, the majority of the US military hates Obama. Coming from a military family, having friends still serving, etc. they all say the same thing. The troops hate him. I gave you, but one example since, being the professionals they are, they aren\'t supposed to talk to the media about such things.
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i\'ve stayed out of this conversation so far because basically everyones debating on whos the tallest midget but i gotta cal you out on this one clip
600 billion is 1000x more than 592 million. please if you going to present your statements as facts check your facts first and dont pretend that a $599,408,000,000 mistake is no big deal:rolleyes:
yes that is still a lot of money but there will only be room for 1000 people in the embassy. i hardly call that a "presence" considering the majority will be administrative staff who will probably never be able to leave the compound at most they\'ll have a company or 2 of marines there which will total 100-200 per company which is not much military force for intimidating the population as you\'re insinuating. the whole point of the war now is to establish a stable government that the U.S. can have diplomatic relations with. Diplomatic relations require an embassy, building an embassy that doesnt fall apart everytime an insurgent fires a rocket into it and 1000 people have to live in is gonna cost some cash
Well there you go clips, couldn\'t have said it better myself - it is an EMBASSY - not a base.
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I\'m not big on conspiracy issues..if Ron Paul and this other guy are so big and knowledgeable about what\'s goin\'on, they\'re in a waay better position to do something about it than the average american, yet they sit here doing an interview about it...:rolleyes:....next!!!
I believe some of what they\'re saying, but to say that paper money we recieve isn\'t really true currency?...you have to buy everything with that paper money.(food, gas etc)...all the gov\'t\'s of the world have some type of paper currency,..so now is it all just one huge world wide conspiracy?...
These guys talk a good talk, but after the camera stops rollin\' they probably go sit on the couch with their hands in their pants like Al Bundy.
Your an idiot. I really am trying to bear with you on your arguments, but they seem to make less and less sense as we go on.
Ron Paul did try to do something about it. He ran for President. Most americans 40+ watch debates as their means of picking a candidate, and paul was given the equivelant of a 30 second TV spot to get his voice heard while the other candidate got a full fledged movie. The government does not want this guy minimizing Big Government power, so they tried to hide him.
Aside from all that. Paul votes regularly and consistently to against deficit spending and increasing government power.
Sat on the couch eh? Get your fucking facts straight.
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Not just that but some of the people interviewed (many of which not shown in that specific youtube video) are in constant battle to inform
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fyi, i don care who\'s president, i just know it\'ll be obama
Your an idiot.
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i\'ve stayed out of this conversation so far because basically everyones debating on whos the tallest midget but i gotta cal you out on this one clip
600 billion is 1000x more than 592 million. please if you going to present your statements as facts check your facts first and dont pretend that a $599,408,000,000 mistake is no big deal
yes that is still a lot of money but there will only be room for 1000 people in the embassy. i hardly call that a "presence" considering the majority will be administrative staff who will probably never be able to leave the compound at most they\'ll have a company or 2 of marines there which will total 100-200 per company which is not much military force for intimidating the population as you\'re insinuating. the whole point of the war now is to establish a stable government that the U.S. can have diplomatic relations with. Diplomatic relations require an embassy, building an embassy that doesnt fall apart everytime an insurgent fires a rocket into it and 1000 people have to live in is gonna cost some cash
Most US embassies are in need up security upgrades or have had the upgrades done. Do you even know what an embassy is for clips? By the way you are getting your panties in a wad over this I don\'t think you do. The Baghdad embassy is no exception. We already have an ally in the heart of the Middle East - Israel.
I know what an embassy is, and i do understand that it needs to be protected...the point again...is not how much it\'s costing, it was more about the fact that u.s. planned this from the very beginning,...even before the whole wmd argument and invading iraq, the u.s. planned on building that embassy, meaning that they wanted saddam out so they could have a presence there capeesh?
This was in 2003!!!!! Right after the war was over and it was to get help for reconstruction. Derrrr...
Oh yeah right after major combat missions were over right?...:rolleyes:...this was during the time when the insurgents was intensifying their attacks and beheading folks
" President Bush\'s decision to ask for the United Nations\' help in postwar Iraq is an admission that the current situation there cannot be sustained — militarily, financially or politically"
^^^Sounds to me like he needed help, and that he could not "GO IT ALONE"....and of course it\'s in 2003, i did state this happened early on in the war.
The troops hate him. I gave you, but one example since, being the professionals they are, they aren\'t supposed to talk to the media about such things.
Again i do believe that some don\'t like him, but i must respectively disagree with you that the majority of the troops dislike him...for every troop that talks in the way this troop describes Obama and the war in general, i\'ve heard these same troops critcize the war once they were relieved of duty... one general in particular,...sanchez i think his name was....anyway while he served in iraq he stated.."yeah we\'re fighting the good fight,..we\'re making progress"...then as soon as his term was over he retired and shortly afterwards, he blasted the war, stating that many troops and officers are severly punished if they speak out against the war.
Sadly in a sense troops are kinda brainwashed into thinking they are doing the right thing, but if any of them questions their superiors or speak out against the war, you\'re punished for it?...but i\'m sure your buddy won\'t admit to something like that happening. I want our troops to win no doubt, but it kinda sucks that they have to mindlessly take orders and just hope and trust that they are doin\' the right thing.
Your an idiot. I really am trying to bear with you on your arguments, but they seem to make less and less sense as we go on.
Ron Paul did try to do something about it. He ran for President. Most americans 40+ watch debates as their means of picking a candidate, and paul was given the equivelant of a 30 second TV spot to get his voice heard while the other candidate got a full fledged movie. The government does not want this guy minimizing Big Government power, so they tried to hide him.
Aside from all that. Paul votes regularly and consistently to against deficit spending and increasing government power.
Sat on the couch eh? Get your fucking facts straight.
Easy there sherlock...i stated that i agree with some of what they\'re saying...and i thought i already stated that i like Ron Paul,...not that i give a s**t or that i\'m sayin\' it for your approval.......i\'m just saying that i don\'t believe in all of the conspiracy issues they raised.....there are some things that no matter how much we\'re informed, the gov\'t is just too powerful for anybody to do anything about it...
And what arguments are you tryin\' to bear with me on?...please elaborate...:rolleyes:
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fyi, i don care who\'s president, i just know it\'ll be obama
I too believe Obama will win. I also believe that attempts will be made on his life because there are uninformed extremist out there. Obama is the next JFK, only not as good.
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I know what an embassy is, and i do understand that it needs to be protected...the point again...is not how much it\'s costing, it was more about the fact that u.s. planned this from the very beginning,...even before the whole wmd argument and invading iraq, the u.s. planned on building that embassy, meaning that they wanted saddam out so they could have a presence there capeesh?
So what is your fucking problem with it? It is an embassy - nothing more - nothing less. Take the tin foil hat off and relax. I think most reading this thread also agree that your ranting about this building is idiotic. I am not going to feed your babbling on the topic any longer after this post.
Oh yeah right after major combat missions were over right?...:rolleyes:...this was during the time when the insurgents was intensifying their attacks and beheading folks
" President Bush\'s decision to ask for the United Nations\' help in postwar Iraq is an admission that the current situation there cannot be sustained — militarily, financially or politically"
^^^Sounds to me like he needed help, and that he could not "GO IT ALONE"....and of course it\'s in 2003, i did state this happened early on in the war.
But, we did go it alone essentially and things are working out. If this were World War II you would have already have waved the white flag. Sounds to me like you and Nobama wanted it to fail. Typical thinking for democrats and the rest of the blame America first crew. The surge was the answer and it has worked - even though Osama won\'t admit it.
Again i do believe that some don\'t like him, but i must respectively disagree with you that the majority of the troops dislike him...for every troop that talks in the way this troop describes Obama and the war in general, i\'ve heard these same troops critcize the war once they were relieved of duty... one general in particular,...sanchez i think his name was....anyway while he served in iraq he stated.."yeah we\'re fighting the good fight,..we\'re making progress"...then as soon as his term was over he retired and shortly afterwards, he blasted the war, stating that many troops and officers are severly punished if they speak out against the war.
Sadly in a sense troops are kinda brainwashed into thinking they are doing the right thing, but if any of them questions their superiors or speak out against the war, you\'re punished for it?...but i\'m sure your buddy won\'t admit to something like that happening. I want our troops to win no doubt, but it kinda sucks that they have to mindlessly take orders and just hope and trust that they are doin\' the right thing.
Oh so now our troops are brainwashed? The only brainwashed people I know of are Obama supporters. Why don\'t you also eleborate on what Sanchez said - he blamed everyone - Congress included for the handling of the war and when he was the commander things were not going well, but that has changed. I will make the bet here that if Obama loses, you and others will blame racist white people, since no one can not like the Obamessiah\'s policies (however convoluted they are). Also JFK was not that great - which makes an Obama presidency about on par with that of Jimmy Carter.
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Also JFK was not that great - which makes an Obama presidency about on par with that of Jimmy Carter.
I agree. Just because your likable doesn\'t mean your suited for the Presidency. If that\'s all it takes let\'s get Rachel Ray in the oval office.
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I agree. Just because your likable doesn\'t mean your suited for the Presidency. If that\'s all it takes let\'s get Rachel Ray in the oval office.
It is amazing how many people think he was our greatest president. I think you are right as well about likability.
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I agree. Just because your likable doesn\'t mean your suited for the Presidency. If that\'s all it takes let\'s get Rachel Ray in the oval office.
people like her? i mean i\'d do her but i dont like her
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i\'d do her but i dont like her
Agreed.
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I agree. Just because your likable doesn\'t mean your suited for the Presidency. If that\'s all it takes let\'s get Rachel Ray in the oval office.
It is amazing how many people think he was our greatest president. I think you are right as well about likability.
Why don\'t you two go get a room?...:rolleyes:....:gfight:....;)
*fixed*...my bad...:D
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Why don\'t you two go get a room?...:rolleyes:....:gfight:....;)
Uh I don\'t get it. You quoted me twice.
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?
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So what is your fucking problem with it? It is an embassy - nothing more - nothing less. Take the tin foil hat off and relax. I think most reading this thread also agree that your ranting about this building is idiotic. I am not going to feed your babbling on the topic any longer after this post.
I already stated what the main point of my complaining about the embassy was about, and instead of addressing my point, you just sit there and state "it\'s an embassy so what?"....i guess that one flew right over your head right?, but if you\'re done with it, so am I...
But, we did go it alone essentially and things are working out. If this were World War II you would have already have waved the white flag. Sounds to me like you and Nobama wanted it to fail. Typical thinking for democrats and the rest of the blame America first crew. The surge was the answer and it has worked - even though Osama won\'t admit it.
WWII was a completely different scenario...and i still support our efforts in afghanastan, i just felt iraq was a waste of time, money & soldiers lives...iraq was not an immediate threat at all...and yeah, we had the most troops there but the fact remains that bush went back to the u.n. when s**t started to get hot over there, and i think it\'s kinda disrespectful to other countries that were helping us early on in the war by saying we did all by ourselves, regardless of how irrelevant you think they are,...going it alone to me, means the u.s. doing the job by itself...and clearly we did not...
And when you can walk down the street in iraq without gettin\' yer head blown off or steppin\' on a roadside bomb, that\'s when i\'ll say the surge worked...
Oh so now our troops are brainwashed? The only brainwashed people I know of are Obama supporters. Why don\'t you also eleborate on what Sanchez said - he blamed everyone - Congress included for the handling of the war and when he was the commander things were not going well, but that has changed. I will make the bet here that if Obama loses, you and others will blame racist white people, since no one can not like the Obamessiah\'s policies (however convoluted they are). Also JFK was not that great - which makes an Obama presidency about on par with that of Jimmy Carter.
Maybe brainwash is a bit harsh, but all i\'m sayin\' is that they really have no say when and if they want to question the mission, and to keep the morale up the generals have to say to them that they are doing the right thing,..so yeah it is sort of like brainwashing them....and your very own comments about sanchez proves that guys in the military cannot say anything detrimental towards the efforts in iraq,..only when you are discharged, can you then make such comments.
I\'m not gonna go into the racist thing with obama again, i\'ve explained my position on that in quite a few posts already. Obama & Hillary had the same policies, there\'s no reason for hillary voters to be voting for mccain just because they don\'t like obama...they are votin\' for mccain because they are clearly racist, the end......i\'m not gonna sit here and try to make up some excuse for ignorant folks..and say "no it can\'t possibly be that they are racist"..:rolleyes:
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I\'m not gonna go into the racist thing with obama again, i\'ve explained my position on that in quite a few posts already. Obama & Hillary had the same policies, there\'s no reason for hillary voters to be voting for mccain just because they don\'t like obama...they are votin\' for mccain because they are clearly racist, the end......i\'m not gonna sit here and try to make up some excuse for ignorant folks..and say "no it can\'t possibly be that they are racist"..:rolleyes:
So you are saying any white person who voted for Hillary and doesn\'t vote for Obama is racist and ignorant. Hillary had much more experience than Obama and those voters can see that he lacks substance. This has nothing, I repeat nothing to do with race - Obama has done nothing noteworthy since being elected to office and lies constantly. Obama also has made many gaffe\'s in the campaign - "typcial white people, clinging to religion and guns." I guess you don\'t understand that comments like that have negative consequences. Once he made those comments, people in this country came out in droves for Hillary, but it was too late. The real Barry Obama wasn\'t spotted until late in the primary season. You can not expect people to vote for a candidate that insults them.
You can not refute the fact that McCain has worked with both parties in Congress and has substance to his resume. Also Obama\'s and Hillary\'s plans for taxes were not identical at all. They were completely opposite and Hillary\'s were more in line with McCain\'s policies.
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"typcial white people, clinging to religion and guns." I guess you don\'t understand that comments like that have negative consequences.
He didn\'t say white people,..and if you listened to his comment,..all he was saying was that people are so frustrated with the economy that people are keeping busy doing things they like...fishing, hiking,excercising etc, etc...clinging to their guns (a hobby) & faith...what\'s wrong with reading the bible when you\'re goin\' thru hard times?...that is all he was saying....and if the people of PA are too stupid to understand that, then they don\'t deserve to be votin\' in the first place.....he even apologized for it stating it was a misunderstanding,..and do you think that he would purposely want to insult anybody?
You can not refute the fact that McCain has worked with both parties in Congress and has substance to his resume. Also Obama\'s and Hillary\'s plans for taxes were not identical at all. They were completely opposite and Hillary\'s were more in line with McCain\'s policies.
Obama has reached across to work with conservatives as well, what i will agree with you on is the tax policies....i do know there are some differences there, and in that aspect i really don\'t know who\'s is better,..you bein\' a McCain fan, i know you\'ll say his is better, but i haven\'t really looked at both of their tax policies in full detail like that.
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He didn\'t say white people,..and if you listened to his comment,..all he was saying was that people are so frustrated with the economy that people are keeping busy doing things they like...fishing, hiking,excercising etc, etc...clinging to their guns (a hobby) & faith...what\'s wrong with reading the bible when you\'re goin\' thru hard times?...that is all he was saying....and if the people of PA are too stupid to understand that, then they don\'t deserve to be votin\' in the first place.....he even apologized for it stating it was a misunderstanding,..and do you think that he would purposely want to insult anybody?
Obama is drawing a new round of criticism for his comments on a Philadelphia radio sports program yesterday in which he said his grandmother is a "typical white person" who has fears about black men.
"And it\'s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren\'t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations," Obama said.
He did say the above and no he didn\'t misspeak. He was not talking about people keeping busy with hobbies... :rofl: It is amazing how uniformed you are.
Obama has reached across to work with conservatives as well, what i will agree with you on is the tax policies....i do know there are some differences there, and in that aspect i really don\'t know who\'s is better,..you bein\' a McCain fan, i know you\'ll say his is better, but i haven\'t really looked at both of their tax policies in full detail like that.
Please point out to where Obama has "reached across to work with conservatives". He certainly hasn\'t in the Senate.
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http://www.yahoo.com/s/925149
^^^Hmmm...seems like McCain is thinking about raising taxes after all...
"In a March 16 interview with Fox News\' Sean Hannity, McCain said he would cut taxes where possible, and not raise them.
"Do you mean none?" Hannity asked.
"None," McCain replied."
WASHINGTON - Republican presidential candidate John McCain\'s signal that he may be open to a higher payroll tax for Social Security, despite previous vows not to raise taxes of any kind, is drawing sharp rebukes from conservatives.
Uhm...you did say that Obama was a liar right?...speak up now i can\'t hear you!!...:D...you were the one that also stated it was dumb for anybody to raise taxes with the shape the economy is in, and yet McCain is open to raising taxes.....Obama is raisin\' taxes on folks who make $250,000 & up..while McCain is seriously thinking about raising taxes on SS...and that effects everybody...McCain is flip-flopping all over the place...
He did say the above and no he didn\'t misspeak.
You\'re takin\' sound bites and piecing them together as if he was directing his grandmother comments to the people of PA....and let\'s be honest here, if we\'re going to have a serious conversation about race, he was just being honest about the typical white person....meaning that they see black folks in a negative light, now that is not saying that the typical white person is racist,...it\'s just saying how the typical white person views black folks.
the clinging to guns & all that, goes back to them bein frustrated about the economy...and i admit, he could\'ve re-worded some of it a bit better, but he already apologized for it & it wasn\'t like he was trying to purposely insult anybody...
Please point out to where Obama has "reached across to work with conservatives". He certainly hasn\'t in the Senate.
When you point out that McCain has, then i will post some of Obama\'s....you\'re always sayin\' show me proof...let\'s see some proof of McCain from your end...
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http://www.yahoo.com/s/925149
^^^Hmmm...seems like McCain is thinking about raising taxes after all...
Did you also know that Obama agrees with our current foreign policy?
That was the whole point of this thread. To point out that these candidates are Republican and Democrat in name only, they do not represent the true policies of their party. The outcome of the election will have no bearing on my quality of life.
I found it ironic that they said Ron Paul was not in line with the republican view. This is entirely wrong. He\'s not in line with the neoconservative view, he\'s a classic constitutionalist republican.
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Did you also know that Obama agrees with our current foreign policy?
I do know that the bush admin. sent a convoy over to talk to the iranians, shortly after Obama repeatedly in his speeches stated that there has to be a direct dialogue of tough diplomacy, and i also heard of "time horizons"....:rolleyes: as mentioned by the bush admin. in regards to iraq..after constantly stating that they were not open to a timeline of any matter, but with Obama stating that he would have the troops out in 16 months,..now all of a sudden, bush & co want "time horizons".....
Seems to me that the current administration agrees with Obama\'s foreign policies...and McCain states Obama doesn\'t have the experience? People in his own party are taking points from Obama\'s playbook...y\'know that guy with "0" experience.
And i agree with everything else you stated, anybody that you put in the WH isn\'t going to make a huge impact on our lives for the next 4 - 8 years, but i do think that the person whoever is selected dictates on some level what direction the country will be going in.
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http://www.yahoo.com/s/925149
^^^Hmmm...seems like McCain is thinking about raising taxes after all...
"In a March 16 interview with Fox News\' Sean Hannity, McCain said he would cut taxes where possible, and not raise them.
"Do you mean none?" Hannity asked.
"None," McCain replied."
WASHINGTON - Republican presidential candidate John McCain\'s signal that he may be open to a higher payroll tax for Social Security, despite previous vows not to raise taxes of any kind, is drawing sharp rebukes from conservatives.
Uhm...you did say that Obama was a liar right?...speak up now i can\'t hear you!!...:D...you were the one that also stated it was dumb for anybody to raise taxes with the shape the economy is in, and yet McCain is open to raising taxes.....Obama is raisin\' taxes on folks who make $250,000 & up..while McCain is seriously thinking about raising taxes on SS...and that effects everybody...McCain is flip-flopping all over the place...
Doesn\'t affect me. And raising one tax is much different from raising the capital gains tax, etc. I don\'t have time to teach you economics. The king of flip floppers happens to be Obama. Does the 2nd Amendment ruling by the Supreme Court ring a bell? Obama was all for banning handguns in DC, but once the Supreme Court ruled against the ban he was all for the ruling.
You\'re takin\' sound bites and piecing them together as if he was directing his grandmother comments to the people of PA....and let\'s be honest here, if we\'re going to have a serious conversation about race, he was just being honest about the typical white person....meaning that they see black folks in a negative light, now that is not saying that the typical white person is racist,...it\'s just saying how the typical white person views black folks.
the clinging to guns & all that, goes back to them bein frustrated about the economy...and i admit, he could\'ve re-worded some of it a bit better, but he already apologized for it & it wasn\'t like he was trying to purposely insult anybody...
I am not clipping soundbites - that is what he said. You said the same thing about old Reverend Wright. :rolleyes:
When you point out that McCain has, then i will post some of Obama\'s....you\'re always sayin\' show me proof...let\'s see some proof of McCain from your end...
McCain-Feingold. But one example and google is your friend.
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I do know that the bush admin. sent a convoy over to talk to the iranians, shortly after Obama repeatedly in his speeches stated that there has to be a direct dialogue of tough diplomacy, and i also heard of "time horizons"....:rolleyes: as mentioned by the bush admin. in regards to iraq..after constantly stating that they were not open to a timeline of any matter, but with Obama stating that he would have the troops out in 16 months,..now all of a sudden, bush & co want "time horizons".....
Seems to me that the current administration agrees with Obama\'s foreign policies...and McCain states Obama doesn\'t have the experience? People in his own party are taking points from Obama\'s playbook...y\'know that guy with "0" experience.
And i agree with everything else you stated, anybody that you put in the WH isn\'t going to make a huge impact on our lives for the next 4 - 8 years, but i do think that the person whoever is selected dictates on some level what direction the country will be going in.
Bush sent a convoy to Iran? Bwahahahahahahaha!!!!!! :rofl:
Obama is all for appeasement and no action. He thinks he can reason with Putin - bwahahahaha. You know if he can get hustled by a German reporter I wonder what heads of other state can do to him.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,568532,00.html
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/28/AR2008072802464.html
I\'d also like to note again that I\'m not a big McCain fan, just tired of the blind followers of Obama who think he will save us from the brink of destruction.
Also, this is a review on a book I\'m reading by Mr. Ron Paul, I highly recommend that you all read it.
http://www.huntingtonnews.net/columns/080729-kinchen-columnsbookreview.html
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I think I am going to buy a copy of his book. Many of the things noted in your link are very similar to my views.
I fear that he is going to be "attacked" from every side because of his ideas though.
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All I want from a President is someone hip and cool.
So. I vote for Obama.
WOOT!
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I think I am going to buy a copy of his book. Many of the things noted in your link are very similar to my views.
I fear that he is going to be "attacked" from every side because of his ideas though.
I would vote for anyone that promised to drop a fuel-air bomb on your house upon being sworn in.
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I ll move next to yours after that promise
And you cant imagine how much I would enjoy it just by the idea of taking you with me
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And that\'s who you will be from now on Unicron...Shitpiece.
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And that\'s who you will be from now on Unicron...Shitpiece.
in your mouth
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Quiet, Shitpiece.
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im gonna vote for whoever can put more money back in my paycheck
fuck
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im gonna vote for whoever can put more money back in my paycheck
fuck
Ron Paul, he wants to eliminate income tax all together.
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"Don\'t steal. The government hates competition"
:laughing:
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Ron Paul, he wants to eliminate income tax all together.
that is the stupidest idea i\'ve ever heard.
lower it, yes, especailly for the middle class. But i\'d like to see the government function with absolutely no income tax
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that is the stupidest idea i\'ve ever heard.
lower it, yes, especailly for the middle class. But i\'d like to see the government function with absolutely no income tax
Ron Paul\'s suggestion if I am not mistaken isnt the complete absence of any form of income tax. If I am not mistaken he wants to eliminate the income tax that burdens the citizens\' normal income, which he and many others believe it is unconstitutional and a form of control over the citizens. They have material to back this claim up.
There are other forms of income taxes like those on corporations. In general if I remember well, what they say is that the only constitutional tax form is that, which targets income that stem from profits. And the emphasis should be there
In other words the upper classes. Those it is believed are owning the largest percentage of wealth of the country, who are ruling the system and are contributing less into the government revenues than the normal citizens who are struggling for a living.
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Doesn\'t affect me. And raising one tax is much different from raising the capital gains tax, etc. I don\'t have time to teach you economics. The king of flip floppers happens to be Obama. Does the 2nd Amendment ruling by the Supreme Court ring a bell? Obama was all for banning handguns in DC, but once the Supreme Court ruled against the ban he was all for the ruling.
Really?,...you know that piece of paper you get every two weeks?..your paycheck?....riiiight...it\'s going to affect that, so it affects everybody...who cares about that handgun law?...that does not affect me. i never wanted to move to dc anyway f**k \'em...
Bush sent a convoy to Iran? Bwahahahahahahaha!!!!!!
Obama is all for appeasement and no action. He thinks he can reason with Putin - bwahahahaha. You know if he can get hustled by a German reporter I wonder what heads of other state can do to him.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...568532,00.html
So...Bush didn\'t send a group of folks to talk to the iranians just recently?...and didn\'t he(bush) himself just agreed to proposed timelines or "time horizons?"..:rolleyes: in iraq?..after he stated he would not endorse them...yep he sure did, and this is coming offa that trip that Obama had with the iraqi prime minister, in which he agreed with Obama\'s 16 month pull out of iraq....shame really how bush & co. are taking notes from Obama\'s notebook...
y\'know that new guy on the block with "0" experience...:rolleyes:
I\'d also like to note again that I\'m not a big McCain fan, just tired of the blind followers of Obama who think he will save us from the brink of destruction.
So what about the blind followers of McCain like my conservative counterpart that posted above you?....if you\'re gonna play the neutral card, then please, let\'s have some balanced criticism...mmkay?...otherwise you\'re just as bad as fox news...
All I want from a President is someone hip and cool.
So. I vote for Obama.
WOOT!
No doubt!!...and this is why i regard you as one of the smartest and coolest cats on this forum...:fro:
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Well, that and the fact that I love me some black women..But, nevermind that... uhm.
Yeah, I just want a hip President. No more old dudes. You know, maybe someone who , uhm, likes Mcdonald fries and porn.
Wait - Clinton..Ermm..Yeah, Obama, that dude
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that is the stupidest idea i\'ve ever heard.
lower it, yes, especailly for the middle class. But i\'d like to see the government function with absolutely no income tax
Actually the amount of money that the government receives from individual income tax would only revert the government back to year 2000 spending levels. Considering the government overspends on sooooo many social programs that aren\'t needed (such as Welfare, IRS, etc.), this is actually quite a reasonable budget to work with.
In my eyes, by saying what you said, you are conceding that the government owns you, and you have no individual rights as a worker.
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Ron Paul\'s suggestion if I am not mistaken isnt the complete absence of any form of income tax. If I am not mistaken he wants to eliminate the income tax that burdens the citizens\' normal income, which he and many others believe it is unconstitutional and a form of control over the citizens. They have material to back this claim up.
There are other forms of income taxes like those on corporations. In general if I remember well, what they say is that the only constitutional tax form is that, which targets income that stem from profits. And the emphasis should be there
In other words the upper classes. Those it is believed are owning the largest percentage of wealth of the country, who are ruling the system and are contributing less into the government revenues than the normal citizens who are struggling for a living.
i thought his suggestion was that we eliminate income tax in favor of a national sales tax. probably ends up being the same but at least we\'re only taxed once per dollar as opposed to once when we earn it and once when we spend it
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Really?,...you know that piece of paper you get every two weeks?..your paycheck?....riiiight...it\'s going to affect that, so it affects everybody...who cares about that handgun law?...that does not affect me. i never wanted to move to dc anyway f**k \'em...
It doesn\'t. I don\'t pay into SS. We have our own retirement plan here. I am done debating in this thread with you as it now bores me. So... talk about your "convoy" all you want, but you might want to invest in a dictionary and the word you are looking for is envoy.
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i thought his suggestion was that we eliminate income tax in favor of a national sales tax. probably ends up being the same but at least we\'re only taxed once per dollar as opposed to once when we earn it and once when we spend it
Perhaps you are right on that one.
Doesnt national sales tax already exist in goods and services btw? Or is it just in some goods and services?
Personally I am against sales taxes though. It is the lower classes that are burdened the most from such a scheme. The lower the income, the bigger is the perceived value per dollar amount lost through taxes. The middle and low classes will still be under pressure and control, only this time indirectly. The end result isnt much different from an income tax.
Perhaps the biggest difference outside the one you mentioned which Ron Paul targets, is the power the IRS has over people through income tax collection. The IRS can prosecute individuals now. Unlike income tax collection though the citizen can partially control what he pays for through national sales taxes by choosing his goods and services or by consuming less without any direct governmental intervention in his personal life. He basically wants to reduce the state control over citizens knowing the interests that are hidden within.
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It doesn\'t. I don\'t pay into SS. We have our own retirement plan here. I am done debating in this thread with you as it now bores me. So... talk about your "convoy" all you want, but you might want to invest in a dictionary and the word you are looking for is envoy.
Well i guess you certaintly told me, didn\'t you?...:rolleyes:...you\'re sayin\' you\'re bored like it\'s some type of "honor" to debate with you!!...:rofl:...:gtfo:..easy Giga it\'s just the internet....you\'re acting just like the "typical" stuck-up snobbish conservative......and thanks for enlightening me on the grammar correction...:rolleyes:....:thumb:
I\'ll be the bigger man and say it\'s been highly entertaining debating with you...:fighting:.....:highfive:
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Perhaps you are right on that one.
Doesnt national sales tax already exist in goods and services btw? Or is it just in some goods and services?
Personally I am against sales taxes though. It is the lower classes that are burdened the most from such a scheme. The lower the income, the bigger is the perceived value per dollar amount lost through taxes. The middle and low classes will still be under pressure and control, only this time indirectly. The end result isnt much different from an income tax.
Perhaps the biggest difference outside the one you mentioned which Ron Paul targets, is the power the IRS has over people through income tax collection. The IRS can prosecute individuals now. Unlike income tax collection though the citizen can partially control what he pays for through national sales taxes by choosing his goods and services or by consuming less without any direct governmental intervention in his personal life. He basically wants to reduce the state control over citizens knowing the interests that are hidden within.
Your missing the point though. People shouldn\'t be punished for making more money. You buy what you can afford, capitalism at its heart. This is why I\'ve been against social programs from the beginning.
Welfare, for example, provides no incentive to get off the couch and get a job. They have money coming anyway, why do they need a job? Welfare is by far the most abused social program in America and it needs to stop.
I can\'t stand American citizens who depend on the government to take care of them. If you were born with a disability that\'s one thing. If you were a crack addicted woman who now cares for eight children with five different fathers, you\'ve made poor choices in your life.
Why does the lower class deserve more money? What did they do to deserve it? Did they go to school? Earn a degree? Get a job? Try those things first.
Yes I know I sound like an ass, but its the truth.
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Your missing the point though. People shouldn\'t be punished for making more money. You buy what you can afford, capitalism at its heart. This is why I\'ve been against social programs from the beginning.
Welfare, for example, provides no incentive to get off the couch and get a job. They have money coming anyway, why do they need a job? Welfare is by far the most abused social program in America and it needs to stop.
I can\'t stand American citizens who depend on the government to take care of them. If you were born with a disability that\'s one thing. If you were a crack addicted woman who now cares for eight children with five different fathers, you\'ve made poor choices in your life.
Why does the lower class deserve more money? What did they do to deserve it? Did they go to school? Earn a degree? Get a job? Try those things first.
Yes I know I sound like an ass, but its the truth.
I agree about what you say regarding welfare systems and I will add that it is abused in almost every country. It is something I disagree upon as well and for years this matter has been troubling me. But the welfare system is irrelevant I think to what I ve tried to point out. I am not proposing a system of income allocation such as a welfare system.
My reference to lower classes is just a reference point, to express the perceived value lost as the income becomes less. For example for you as a person who belongs in the middle class (assumption), the perceived value you lose through taxes is higher than for the very few that own more than half of the country\'s national income. The same amount per dollar lost has less value as wealth increases. In other words you are punished extra for making less. You are still imprisoned in the economic system as a middle class man (or low class). Only this time indirectly.
For example in many European countries were national sales taxes are common, increases in VAT on necessity goods like milk and bread, cause uproars and complains from everyone except from the top classes even though the latter may consume more thus pay more in indirect taxes.
Also the general market is similar to the stock market. Not everyone can make abnormal returns. Even if we assume that every single individual tries his/her best, some are bound to fail, some will do fine, and some are bound to make abnormal returns due to unpredictable factors and/or inefficiencies of the market which is sometimes caused by some deliberately to allocate wealth from you to their own pockets. Not everyone in the upper class has earned his/her wealth purely on skill and extreme efforts. The public sector and the free market fail in similar ways for similar reasons. They are both abused and are enclosed in the same system.
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People shouldn\'t be punished for making more money. You buy what you can afford, capitalism at its heart. This is why I\'ve been against social programs from the beginning.
Fair enough.
Me, I don\'t think people should be penalized for not making enough money. I like capitalism, I\'m not saying we should all be affording the same luxuries or whatever, but when it comes to things like health care, we shouldn\'t have people who can\'t afford it.
Sorry if I\'m off topic, I\'ve got health care on the brain and just jumped to the end of the thread.
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Fair enough.
Me, I don\'t think people should be penalized for not making enough money. I like capitalism, I\'m not saying we should all be affording the same luxuries or whatever, but when it comes to things like health care, we shouldn\'t have people who can\'t afford it.
Sorry if I\'m off topic, I\'ve got health care on the brain and just jumped to the end of the thread.
Not too long ago, most people would pay cash for their doctor\'s visits, and it would an arrangement made with the doctor. Government regulation are what have caused this gap in health care, not a free market.
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I love this guy. And its related. And it counts for everyone regardless of region
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u6lCBnRoHQ
:lmao:
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A followup to that...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktIECyzf4YM&feature=related