PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Jumpman on October 15, 2008, 06:14:57 PM
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"Zero!"
"Zero!?"
"Zero."
pwned so hard
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Thoughts? I felt McCain came outta the gate strong and attacked Obama\'s plans,..i also liked when he stated,..."i\'m not bush,...if you wanted to go against him you should\'ve campainged back in 04"...:p...i gotta give it up to McCain for that...so i think the first 15 minutes McCain looked good and strong...but after that it was all Obama....
McCain fell short on the ayers subject,..he constantly kept going back to that subject even after Obama explained the relationship saying.."well we still need to know more about the relationship" even after saying that the only thing his campaign would be about was the issues...and later on McCain was breathing hard, and looking flustered every time Obama countered his accusiations(spel) against him...again Obama cleared up any questions that people might have had about him & ayers and he even went on to clear up the issue of Acorn...McCain was figety, and was sniffing as if he\'d just done a line of coke.
Obama buried McCain on healthcare and education and kept his composure throughout the entire debate. McCain started off strong but fell short after the first 15 minutes and looked agitated shortly afterward.....and i love how Obama didn\'t leave any questions hanging out there...McCain was absolutely flustered when Obama answered that Joe the plumber would not receive a fine under his plan,...after McCain kept saying.."how much is the fine going to be?"...:D....he couldn\'t say anything after he stated that the fine would be "0"....overall i give the edge yet again to Obama.
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Polls show Obama winning by a pretty huge differential.
I thought it was closer than that, though I do think Obama won.
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McCain bugged me all night. like you were saying, mccain talked about how obama was negative campaigning and bitched that obama didnt refute that american hero (cant remember his name) that said something insulting to mccain..but when Ayers was brought up, obama even explained the extent of their relationship (which was nil), and mccain STILL said "the american people need to know the extent of the relationship". dude just wanted to make it seem like there was more to the relationship than there really was to scare people (aka, undecided voters)..cheap tactics like that are the reason i wont vote for him
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Whoever is splitting my posts and making them into threads is doing a good job.
Assuming its not Giga.
And yeah McCain was decent. Look uncomfortable and overly aggressive while Obama\'s calm and collected stature maintained most of the points MC brought up.
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I honestly felt that the previous debates were much more evenly matched, and McCain even seemed rational and thoughtful at times.
I didn\'t see any of that tonight. In this debate, I smelled the stink of fear and desperation on McCain. He knew he needed some kind of knockout punch, but he was so desperately reaching for it that he frequently stumbled over his own words and made himself look feeble in the process. McCain displayed a level of bitterness and hostility that surprised me. In the middle of his outbursts he frequently pasted in phrases and talking points that were entirely out place with the topic.
Once again during this debate, McCain tried to cut off Obama\'s approach by interjecting a "clever comment" only to have it fly back in his face when Obama circled back and flattened the objection. I can\'t believe McCain has gotten as far in politics as he has with this inadequate oratorial style of his.
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I missed the final debate last night :( any particular moments I should youtube from either candidate? or was it pretty much the same as the last two?
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He\'s not the orator that Obama is. Both could say the same exact thing and Obama sounds better. But I\'m not here for entertainment. I don\'t want to be taxed more than I am now. I don\'t care about the fat lazy people who want gov\'t handouts. I have plenty of poor relatives I send money to who work their asses off to put a meal on the table who deserve my extra cash. Not some welfare whore with 9 kids.
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Polls show Obama winning by a pretty huge differential.
I thought it was closer than that, though I do think Obama won.
I\'ve been noticing a trend with that. I wish that they had a breakdown between what percentage are democrats, and what percentage are republicans, and which are independents. I\'ve noticed on a lot of the tracking polls, democrats usually make up at least 55% of the voters in the poll. Not a huge margin, but enough to make things look better than they really are.
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About Joe the Plumber.
McCain then looked directly into the TV camera and said: "Joe, I want to tell you, I\'ll not only help you buy that business that you worked your whole life for and I\'ll keep your taxes low and I\'ll provide available and affordable health care for you and your employees. And I will not stand for a tax increase on small business income."
Obama denied that was true.
"Not only do 98 percent of small businesses make less than $250,000, but I also want to give them additional tax breaks, because they are the drivers of the economy," Obama said. "They produce the most jobs."
So what did Wurzelbacher (pronounced whur-zell-BAHK-er) think about being at the center of the debate?
"It\'s pretty surreal, man, my name being mentioned in a presidential campaign," he said minutes after hearing McCain utter his name.
In Toledo on Sunday, Wurzelbacher told Obama that he was preparing the company, which earns more than $250,000 a year, and said: "Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn\'t it?"
Obama said that under his proposal taxes on any revenue from $250,000 on down would stay the same, but that amounts above that level would be subject to a 39 percent tax, instead of the current 36 percent rate.
"And the reason why we\'re doing that is because 95 percent of small businesses make less than 250 (thousand). So what I want to do is give them a tax cut. I want to give all these folks who are bus drivers, teachers, auto workers who make less, I want to give them a tax cut," he said.
Wurzelbacher protested, saying he\'s been a hardworking plumber for 15 years and why should he be taxed more.
"It\'s not that I want to punish your success," Obama said. "I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you that they\'ve got a chance at success, too."
At a later point in the discussion, Obama said: "I think when you spread the wealth around, it\'s good for everybody. But listen, I respect what you do and I respect your question, and even if I don\'t get your vote, I\'m still gonna be working hard on your behalf because small businesses are what creates jobs in this country and I want to encourage it."
Wurzelbacher\'s name came up again when the debate turned to a discussion of health care policies.
He said Obama\'s reaction on the tax question left him feeling uneasy.
"I didn\'t think much of it the first time I heard it," Wurzelbacher said, adding that he still thinks Obama\'s plan would keep him from buying the business.
About McCain: "He\'s got it right as far as I go."
Even so, Wurzelbacher declined to say which candidate would get his vote on Nov. 4.
"That\'s for me and a button to know," he said.
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Uhhh uhhhh eeeee.... errrrrr.... Obama is the most annoying speaker with his teleprompter.
McCain hit him hard on every issue. Obama couldn\'t answer or flat out lied when giving a response. Obama is unfit for POTUS.
Anyone who cites polls as to who won a debate really doesn\'t understand polls or debates.
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I honestly felt that the previous debates were much more evenly matched, and McCain even seemed rational and thoughtful at times.
I didn\'t see any of that tonight. In this debate, I smelled the stink of fear and desperation on McCain. He knew he needed some kind of knockout punch, but he was so desperately reaching for it that he frequently stumbled over his own words and made himself look feeble in the process. McCain displayed a level of bitterness and hostility that surprised me. In the middle of his outbursts he frequently pasted in phrases and talking points that were entirely out place with the topic.
Once again during this debate, McCain tried to cut off Obama\'s approach by interjecting a "clever comment" only to have it fly back in his face when Obama circled back and flattened the objection. I can\'t believe McCain has gotten as far in politics as he has with this inadequate oratorial style of his.
Debates rarely deliver "knockout" punches - you should know that. Debates also don\'t sway voter opinion as much as you would think.
I can\'t believe Obama has come so far with his lies and lack of experience in politics.
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Uhhh uhhhh eeeee.... errrrrr.... Obama is the most annoying speaker with his teleprompter.
McCain hit him hard on every issue. Obama couldn\'t answer or flat out lied when giving a response. Obama is unfit for POTUS.
Anyone who cites polls as to who won a debate really doesn\'t understand polls or debates.
I think if the trend continues, McCain will actually win the elections....but lose in the polls. :D Yep. The Dems have typically won most debates vs the Reps yet have lost in the last two elections.
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Oops meant to say without his teleprompter. Obama also lied by saying he didn\'t launch his political career in Ayers living room when in fact he did. I don\'t think he can tell the truth. Anyway, a debate is a debate, not a game changer. There are so many factors in this election I don\'t think polls are going to be close to accurate.
If McCain wins, hopefully we have seen the last of Hussein.
I can suffer through 4 years of Obama knowing that it will remind the American public that liberalism is a disease.
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My favorite Joe quote... simply because it represents everything I stand for...
“You start giving people stuff, and then they start expecting it — and that scares me. A lot of people expect it now. They get upset when their check’s late, they get upset when they don’t get as many benefits as they used to, or when different government agencies are cut or spending is cut here and there for whatever reason — people get upset at that. And that’s because they’re used to getting it and they want more. I mean, everyone’s always gonna want more. People work the system left and right to get more out of welfare, to get more out of state assistance, federal assistance. And if government’s there for them, they’re gonna keep on trying to manipulate it to get more out of it. You got people that come along and say, “Hey, I wanna help you people,” I mean, they’re all ears! They’re like, ‘Hey, you can help me more, I don’t have to work as hard, I don’t have to do as much, and you’re gonna give me this? Man, that’s great, you’re a good guy.’”
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Joe continues...
“So yeah, it goes down the socialist — His health-care plan scares me. You know, I don’t like people going without health care, but it’s not my job to pay for everyone else’s health care. It’s hard enough paying for my own. I like the idea of deregulation as far as — nationally, you know, you only get insurance companies that can work in this state — if you deregulate that then you have more people competing and then the prices would go lower. It seems pretty simple to me. It probably isn’t that simple — but you flood the market with more products, usually they go down cheaper.”
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I can play with numbers too.
http://drudgereport.com/
MCCAIN
72% 194,843
OBAMA
27% 71,726
NEITHER
1% 3,614
Total Votes: 270,183
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I can play with numbers too.
http://drudgereport.com/ (http://drudgereport.com/)
An internet poll???? :shy:
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An internet poll???? :shy:
Where are your poll numbers coming from? The site of the debate? New York? A heavily democratic state?
I don\'t get you. Polls are polls, no matter where they come from. Numbers can be manipulated. In the end there\'s only one poll that matters and that one takes place on November 4th.
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I don\'t get you. Polls are polls, no matter where they come from. Numbers can be manipulated. In the end there\'s only one poll that matters and that one takes place on November 4th.
OK Fine, whatever. I don\'t post poll data here except to correct FALSE data posted by someone else.
Internet polls have been criticised here at PSX2Central for many years because they are so hackable.
When the polls aren\'t going your way, you can say they don\'t matter. That\'s OK with me. :)
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During Ron Paul\'s run for the President he fared very well in polls, so I was extremely optimistic about his chances. The grim reality was much different, so you\'ll have to excuse me if I don\'t get too enthused about polls.
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Minus almost no one gives a flyin\' rat\'s ass about Ron Paul? Other than his select groupies (see: you).
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I would totally be swayed on my health care position if more insurance companies could be started to create more marketplace competition and lower healthcare costs somehow that way.
I also am not surprised about, was it Joe, who owns a business that makes more than $250,000 and wants to vote Republican. That\'s pretty much the differance. Breaks for people who don\'t need them = Republican. Fool enough poor people into voting that way because of things like guns and religion, and you\'re able to support your bloated upper class beaurocracy.
The rest of the work force can piss off.
Democrats want to help the majority of people, giving breaks to those who need it and this makes people like $250,000 business owner Joe upset. 3% increase.
Joe wants more and more, too, he just wants it for himself as opposed to poor people who want it for themselves.
So you either believe in a common standard of living provided through things like minimum wage and hopefully affordable healthcare, or you believe that everyone can become the boss who makes enough money to not worry about the rest of the free world.
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I would totally be swayed on my health care position if more insurance companies could be started to create more marketplace competition and lower healthcare costs somehow that way.
I also am not surprised about, was it Joe, who owns a business that makes more than $250,000 and wants to vote Republican. That\'s pretty much the differance. Breaks for people who don\'t need them = Republican. Fool enough poor people into voting that way because of things like guns and religion, and you\'re able to support your bloated upper class beaurocracy.
The rest of the work force can piss off.
Democrats want to help the majority of people, giving breaks to those who need it and this makes people like $250,000 business owner Joe upset. 3% increase.
Joe wants more and more, too, he just wants it for himself as opposed to poor people who want it for themselves.
So you either believe in a common standard of living provided through things like minimum wage and hopefully affordable healthcare, or you believe that everyone can become the boss who makes enough money to not worry about the rest of the free world.
The lazy don\'t deserve shit. "Joe" busts his ass to get ahead only to be punished by Obama so he can spread the wealth around.
Joe is living the American dream and last I checked that is the goal of everyone, unfortunately, everyone can\'t be successful. If you want Socialism Eik, move to Europe. The government should not try and equalize this imbalance by rewarding the unsuccessful or the less hard working people.
All Republlicans aren\'t rich. Poor blacks are controlled by the Democrats with promises of entitlements. Poor Republicans buy into the dream that with hard work they too can succeed. Huge difference.
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The lazy don\'t deserve shit. "Joe" busts his ass to get ahead only to be punished by Obama so he can spread the wealth around.
Joe\'s big punishment is an tax increase of 3%, which only restores him to the tax rate in place before George Bush\'s failed tax policy which ran up a $450 B deficit.
Let us not forget that rich managers like Joe can afford to hire tax accountants who are skilled in finding numerous deductions and loopholes to further limit their tax liability. The poor and middle class don\'t have those same resources.
My heart is breaking for Joe the rich plumber.
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Poor blacks are controlled by the Democrats with promises of entitlements. Poor Republicans buy into the dream that with hard work they too can succeed. Huge difference.
I guess i\'m old fashioned...i don\'t consider myself poor, but i\'m certaintly not rich and not making over $250,000....and i\'ve always told my kids that if you want to be successful, you have to go to college, work hard, and continue to pursue and advance your education....y\'know just basic fundamentals....and *gasp*...i\'m black and a dem!!..:eek:....stop with the po\' blacks argument....that ignorant mindset is slowly creeping back up to the surface.
So only poor republicans know the meaning of hard work and success?...:laughing:...c\'mon...i\'ve started out in the projects of newark,..went to a trade school for I.T. moved out of the projects to the suburbs of piscataway,nj (upper middle class btw)...saved my money and purchased a brand new 4 BR 2 1/2 bath home in georgia three years ago....but i guess only poor republicans can accomplish those kinds of things right?
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Joe\'s big punishment is an tax increase of 3%, which only restores him to the tax rate in place before George Bush\'s failed tax policy which ran up a $450 B deficit.
Let us not forget that rich managers like Joe can afford to hire tax accountants who are skilled in finding numerous deductions and loopholes to further limit their tax liability. The poor and middle class don\'t have those same resources.
My heart is breaking for Joe the rich plumber.
So you believe money should be taken away from the successful and given to the poor?
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I guess i\'m old fashioned...i don\'t consider myself poor, but i\'m certaintly not rich and not making over $250,000....and i\'ve always told my kids that if you want to be successful, you have to go to college, work hard, and continue to pursue and advance your education....y\'know just basic fundamentals....and *gasp*...i\'m black and a dem!!..:eek:....stop with the po\' blacks argument....that ignorant mindset is slowly creeping back up to the surface.
So only poor republicans know the meaning of hard work and success?...:laughing:...c\'mon...i\'ve started out in the projects of newark,..went to a trade school for I.T. moved out of the projects to the suburbs of piscataway,nj (upper middle class btw)...saved my money and purchased a brand new 4 BR 2 1/2 bath home in georgia three years ago....but i guess only poor republicans can accomplish those kinds of things right?
Uhm...just like gman...i hate posting at the bottom of a page as well...:D
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So you believe money should be taken away from the successful and given to the poor?
He obviously feels the rich don\'t deserve to be rich. You shouldn\'t have to work hard to have money. Why would you when you have government handouts?
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what box in a cave do you guys live in where the rich are good and hard-working and the poor are bad and lazy? wish i lived in a world as black and white as you guys
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what box in a cave do you guys live in where the rich are good and hard-working and the poor are bad and lazy? wish i lived in a world as black and white as you guys
The question I have is, what happened to these people to get to the point they\'re at that they need to rely on welfare. Did they get laid off? Get another job, I know its a tough market, but there\'s going to be SOMETHING, even if its not the most desirable job.
Don\'t tell me that those on welfare don\'t feel entitled to it. They do, and rather than go get a job, they\'d rather manipulate the government to get more money in their welfare check.
I know this isn\'t the case 100% of the time, but it drives me nuts to see people get something for nothing, and then still complain that they aren\'t getting enough.
Did you know a third of American citizens don\'t even pay taxes? Isn\'t that enough of a break?
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most of them can\'t afford to take the time to go to college. not only does it cost money to go to college, but theyre losing the immediate cash that they need in order to pay their bills, (because theyre spending 15 hours a week in school. )
this leads to them having to get back-breaking, unskilled labor where they can be layed off the second a company needs to make cut-backs. all while being put on a wage that can barely get them by.
but..both of us are lumping the group into one catagory. there are some free-loaders that you\'re talking about. but like any group of people, theres going to be a percentage to take advantage of it (in the bad way)..i\'d have to see some hard proof statistics that prove the majority are free-loaders and not the people too poor to go to college and increase their income
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I paid for college by working in the restaurant business while attending classes. Sure, it didn\'t pay for the entirety of school costs, but it paid for enough were I wasn\'t burying myself with debt. In this world you have to make sacrifices to become successful, and some people just aren\'t willing to do that.
I\'d also like to make a point that I didn\'t get any money from the state to go to school, I had to take out private loans. Meanwhile, some of my classmates are getting grants and cuts because they\'re a minority. So tell me, is that fair?
Do you believe in quotas and affirmative action? I sure as hell don\'t see how that makes things "equal". It makes things more unequal.
Back on the subject of wealth though. The poor and minorities are cut so many breaks by the government and they just want more, more, more....
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to go back even further, before they can go to college, they usually live in a shitty neighborhood. shitty neighborhoods dont get as much school funding as the rich schools, so even their high school learnings are shit. so we\'re basically saying \'why arent you succeeding?\' while we have our foot on their back. so it goes even further than the 18+ year olds getting jobs and good incomes
edit: sorry, i had a thought and posted quickly. while you were paying for school, were you paying for your housing and electricity, and food? if you were, good for you, but you didnt mention it. I dont believe in affirmative action on the basis of black people getting payed back because of slavery, but if people are poor because theyre being held down by how our society works, then yea, id give them something similar to affirmative action
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to go back even further, before they can go to college, they usually live in a shitty neighborhood. shitty neighborhoods dont get as much school funding as the rich schools, so even their high school learnings are shit. so we\'re basically saying \'why arent you succeeding?\' while we have our foot on their back. so it goes even further than the 18+ year olds getting jobs and good incomes
I have to disagree with this point. I grew up in New Jersey, and right outside of my town was a city called Newark. Newark is riddled with crime and terrible neighborhoods, but as far as funding goes they were the primary recipients of tax dollars. So what do you think Malcolm X. Shabazz high school decided to do with their tax dollars. Buy new books? No. :( Hire more teachers? No. :( Improve the classroom facilities? No. :(
They choose to build a million dollar stadium in Newark, and the proceded to vandalize it with grafitti.
The citizen\'s did it themselves.
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About Newark:
The city\'s public schools are among the lowest-performing in the state, even after the state government decided to take over management of the city\'s schools in 1995, which was done under the presumption that improvement would follow. The school district continues to struggle with low high school graduation rates and low standardized test scores.\'
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dont know enough about the school or anything related to it enough to comment. but yea, on the surface that looks bad. but my gut says that its the school board that is the fault of the waste of tax dollars and not the families\'.
also dont have an answer for why they would still have low graduation rates (standardized test scores are bullshit)..but who would with 3 lines of information..minues the information
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dont know enough about the school or anything related to it enough to comment. but yea, on the surface that looks bad. but my gut says that its the school board that is the fault of the waste of tax dollars and not the families\'.
No actually there was board election/poll/meeting or whatever to determine where to allocate the funds, and the citizens thought a football stadium was a higher priority than the school itself.
also dont have an answer for why they would still have low graduation rates (standardized test scores are bullshit)..but who would with 3 lines of information..minues the information
I\'m not sure I understand your point here. Are you saying the test is unfair? I hate standardized test as much as the next guy, but they are STANDARDIZED, i.e. everyone gets the same test.
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im saying that now teachers teach in order for their students to test well and not necessarily for learning and comprehension. you would think that if you learn and comprehend the subject you\'d do well on the test, but many times thats not the case. but their students HAVE to do well on those tests if the school wants to get the funding it needs/wants
and you\'ve taken enough of those tests to know that the test doesnt really test that you\'re smarter/dumber than a person who did better/worse. some kids are smart but just suck at taking tests, whether that be because of the timed pressure, the atmosphere, whatever.
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I definitely agree, but I doubt the low test scores are due to the teachers not teaching the test.
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Poor poor, Viper growing up in Cali has jaded your point of views on govt :).
NJ\'s state and local govt\'s are so fked up its not even funny. They probably get more tax dollars per capita than most states and its wasted to shit.
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Schools are not the problem, its the parents that bring these kids to there schools. I\'m sorry that Ray Ray and Pookie get shitty schooling because they don\'t know their father and their mother\'s a crack whore.
But Bubba from bum fuck nowhere Nebraska probably gets less funding to go to school just as much as RayRay and Pookie. So please don\'t make schools a racial thing.
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So you believe money should be taken away from the successful and given to the poor?
I believe that the wealthy should contribute something to the country that allowed them to become so remarkably successful. Yes, $250K per year is remarkably successful.
Money paid to the federal government in the form of tax revenues helps maintain the infrastructure and stability of the market that a wealthy manager\'s business operates in. As Biden said, paying taxes is patriotic because it supports the entire structure we depend on for our wealth.
Back to the subject of Joe the Plumber, it appears that his concerns about Obama\'s tax plan were unfounded:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27221645/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27221645/)
Wurzelbacher also acknowledged that he had no specific plans for buying Newell’s business, saying he and Newell had simply talked about the idea from time to time. He might have difficulty making the purchase: Court records from his divorce show that Wurzelbacher made $40,000 in 2006.
Even if he did buy Newell Plumbing and Heating, Obama’s tax plan wouldn’t affect him. While Wurzelbacher told Obama that the business would be taxed at a higher rate because it grossed more than $250,000 a year, Ohio business records show the company’s estimated total annual revenue as only $100,000.
In any event, Obama’s tax plan specifies that the higher rate would apply only to revenue above the $250,000 threshold. For a company with revenue of $280,000, the top end of Wurzelbacher’s supposition, only the extra $30,000 would be taxed at a higher rate.
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Cored,
Regardless, I\'m speaking on principles. I hate the fact that I\'m being forced to contribute rather than donating money to private charities. It seems very authoritarian to me...
Less force, more freedom. Let freedom ring.
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If you\'ve ever seen a school in a shitty neighborhood, you\'d see that the the funding is not even close to the big issue. The issue is that the kids don\'t care. They don\'t care because their parents don\'t care. An over generalization? Probably. But it\'s basically what it boils down to.
If you want to learn, you can learn. The idea that you can\'t learn because you\'re poor is ridiculous. The idea that new text books are going to help the kids in these schools learn better is ridiculous. It boils down to drive, priorities, and attitude. The problem is, poor communities are often filled with families whose parents have little of the three, and so the kids grow up the same way. You can\'t teach someone who doesn\'t want to learn, not matter how much money you throw at the problem.
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Wow, finally someone with some sense!
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Wow, finally someone with some sense!
Something you\'d know nothing about.
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Wow, finally someone with some sense!
Something you\'d know nothing about.
And to answer Giga\'s question. Yes, take away money from the rich and give it to the poor. It\'s called helping out.
So, yea, that\'s my viewpoint.
End of story.
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Something you\'d know nothing about.
This coming from the person collecting welfare checks.
Yes, take away money from the rich and give it to the poor. It\'s called helping out.
No, that\'s called stealing. And it\'s wrong.
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This coming from the person collecting welfare checks.
No, that\'s called stealing. And it\'s wrong.
Yes, because we all know I collect a welfare check?
Get a clue, dumbass. It\'s common knowledge I\'ve had a job (the same job for seven years).
People like you, need to be taken out, shot in the head. You do nothing to add to this country. You simply have a "me, me me" attitude, instead of actually wanting to improve the country with things like public healthcare and other government options. If it doesn\'t add to your personal funds, you don\'t care and it\'s friggin\' disgusting. Same with Giga and his KKK / fuck the nigger\'s attitude.
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Yes, because we all know I collect a welfare check?
Get a clue, dumbass. It\'s common knowledge I\'ve had a job (the same job for seven years).
That hasn\'t kept you sounding off like an idiot.
I don\'t monitor your life, from the way you talk, I genuinely thought you were collecting a welfare check.
Your just a liberal crybaby.
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You just assume shit.
You\'re just a bigot idiot.
It\'s that simple. Who does nothing but worry about himself and can\'t see the forest for the trees. This country has gotten worse and worse and needs a direct change. If that means taking some taxes from the wealthy to help the poor -then so be it.
How am I a bigot?
I am probably the least racists person I know. If your referring for my lack of compassion for the poor, well, I\'m sorry, get off the fucking street and get a job. Don\'t come to me seeking money.
Socialism will drive this country to into the ground.
Stop being so full of yourself.
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How am I a bigot?
I am probably the least racists person I know. If your referring for my lack of compassion for the poor, well, I\'m sorry, get off the fucking street and get a job. Don\'t come to me seeking money.
Socialism will drive this country to into the ground.
Stop being so full of yourself.
Hello? pot calling kettle fuckin\' black.
Yes, the poor are all homeless drunks who do drugs.
Please, get a clue. Go live life and experience different things. Not everyone is poor by choice.
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Anti-freedom?
Anti-choice?
Get a clue.
Public healthcare is not anti-freedom.
It is not anti-choice.
It\'s helping out. It is trying to take the poor people in this country and make sure they are treated as equals.
Fuck, you\'re stupid.
If they want to be treated as equals get a freaking job. You seek a government where people have no control of their economic rights.
You act as if people are have no way of overcoming adversity on their own.
You are anti-American. More than that, I am embarrassed that I have to refer to you as an American citizen. Why don\'t you join your commie friends in Cuba or China. They\'re such great countries to live in, no?
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Not everyone is poor by choice.
But they stay that way by choice.
Determination! The American Dream! Overcome adversity!
Nah, I\'ll collect my welfare check instead and hold up a cup and ask for change on the street corner.
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I don\'t get how debating the most affective way to run a government makes someone less American. Shouldn\'t that make them more American? Isn\'t the beauty of democracy the fact that you get to do this?
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For the record, I am not against giving to the poor. In fact, I outright support and encourage it.
I make donations to my college so that others may pursue an education, I donate to cancer research so that others don\'t have to suffer from a terminal illness, I donate to toys for tots so that the less fortunate can enjoy the holidays.
Here\'s what I am against. I am against the government asking me to hand over my wallet to pay for their social programs. I am against social engineering.
I am for giving, I am against force.
So if that makes me a greedy person, I\'m sorry.
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Schools are not the problem, its the parents that bring these kids to there schools. I\'m sorry that Ray Ray and Pookie get shitty schooling because they don\'t know their father and their mother\'s a crack whore.
But Bubba from bum fuck nowhere Nebraska probably gets less funding to go to school just as much as RayRay and Pookie. So please don\'t make schools a racial thing.
i think the parents not giving a shit is a country-wide problem. parents take their kid out of school for a week so they can go on vacation because schooling has taken a back seat in our country\'s mind
and im not making poor schools a racial thing. i maybe talked about affirmative action, but that was in response to something kennedy said. but race is intermixed in some discussions since 95%+ of shitty inner-city schools are filled with minorities.
but..im kind of done talking about all this shit. i got my own damn problems finding a job after i graduate,haha
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How am I a bigot?
I am probably the least racists person I know. If your referring for my lack of compassion for the poor, well, I\'m sorry, get off the fucking street and get a job. Don\'t come to me seeking money.
Socialism will drive this country to into the ground.
Stop being so full of yourself.
Maybe not a racist, but certainly out of touch. How many ppl work 40 hours a week and still can\'t afford to live alone somewhere. They have to bunk with family or get roommates. They certainly fall under poor, why should they have to be lumped in with bums on "the fucking street?" 25-30k a year is not shit anymore and alot of ppl make that money. Would you not consider them poor?
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For the record, I am not against giving to the poor. In fact, I outright support and encourage it.
I make donations to my college so that others may pursue an education, I donate to cancer research so that others don\'t have to suffer from a terminal illness, I donate to toys for tots so that the less fortunate can enjoy the holidays.
Here\'s what I am against. I am against the government asking me to hand over my wallet to pay for their social programs. I am against social engineering.
I am for giving, I am against force.
So if that makes me a greedy person, I\'m sorry.
Im with you and against you all at the same time.
I dont like being force to pay for ppl to play ps3 all day long while I work hard but at the same time some hard working, honest ppl need the help.
The problem is how easy it is to defraud the system and the requirements necessary to get our money for free.
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I just wish it wasn\'t forced upon me.
It just seems so... authoritarian.
Freedom works.
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If we all choose who got help, some would never get any..... thats the other problem.
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I worked part-time at a liquor store for the longest time with section-8 housing across the street. Keep in mind this is a nice area of Columbus and they\'re put up in nice apartments. What do almost all of them do with this saved money? Spend it on booze.
These people come over EVERY DAY and spend it on pints of e&j, 40\'s of beast ice, and deuces of colt. Not only that but a lot of them wreak of weed. Don\'t tell me that\'s just a small percentage, half of them laugh about all the people from the neighborhood they see there.
People need accountability for themselves.
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That\'s another type of poor, wasted poor. I can\'t stand when people have opportunity and still decide to fuck that up.
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If we all choose who got help, some would never get any..... thats the other problem.
I know that this is more in regard to education than charity (relatively similar), but the principal is what I\'m after.
Private donations to colleges and universities climbed 6.3 percent in 2007, the fourth consecutive year of growth, according to the report, which describes results from the council’s annual “Voluntary Support of Education” survey.
Foundation giving is also playing an increasingly important role. Gifts from foundations increased 19.7 percent, reaching $8.5-billion, with more than a third of that money coming from family foundations.
Over all, though, private donations to the nation’s colleges and universities continued a decade-long rise. Between 1997 and 2007, the average annual increase in contributions has been 6.5 percent.
The point is, when you give people a chance, more than likely they will do the right thing. If people started foundations to help the poor, I could almost garantee more success than what your getting through taxes. If we didn\'t have an income tax, people would be happier, they\'d be more inclined to give, and private donations would skyrocket.
Big government feels they need assert themselves on the public and reach in to what they feel is theirs to begin with.
Freedom works.
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If you\'ve ever seen a school in a shitty neighborhood, you\'d see that the the funding is not even close to the big issue. The issue is that the kids don\'t care. They don\'t care because their parents don\'t care. An over generalization? Probably. But it\'s basically what it boils down to.
If you want to learn, you can learn. The idea that you can\'t learn because you\'re poor is ridiculous. The idea that new text books are going to help the kids in these schools learn better is ridiculous. It boils down to drive, priorities, and attitude. The problem is, poor communities are often filled with families whose parents have little of the three, and so the kids grow up the same way. You can\'t teach someone who doesn\'t want to learn, not matter how much money you throw at the problem.
I stated a somewhat similar statement in another thread concerning Obama\'s plan to help Chicago\'s educational system and this is the reply i\'ve received...
Good leaders get things done. If the people of Chicago didn\'t respond to Obama\'s plan, what makes you think America will?
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Right, my point being, you can throw as much money at the education system if you want, but unless the students want to learn, its all for naught.
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zomg lol, hayden panettiere on mccain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGiUq4RDCSE
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Right, my point being, you can throw as much money at the education system if you want, but unless the students want to learn, its all for naught.
I understand that, but instead of agreeing with me when i did state it was up to the parents and students, and accountability,..you chose to attack Obama\'s plan....Obama cannot make students want to elevate themselves...that comes from within.
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I understand that, but instead of agreeing with me when i did state it was up to the parents and students, and accountability,..you chose to attack Obama\'s plan....Obama cannot make students want to elevate themselves...that comes from within.
Yes, but his plan is to throw money at the schools. Which as we\'ve both just agreed, isn\'t the solution.
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Who\'s the elitist now?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqis9mRcWl4
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Regarding Joe the Plumber... This may have been a game changer for McCain. This was a huge gaffe by Obama. It is much bigger than people originally thought.
Now the left has been investigating Joe like he is a political candidate to somehow discredit him. For what? It was Obama who walked into his neighborhood, not vice versa and it was Obama that made the gaffe from a pretty run of the mill question posed by Joe. The guy is an ordinary citizen and now leftist blogs and media are smearing him? Politics has hit a new low.
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If the left doesn\'t think this is impacting the polls, look again, latest national polls have McCain trailing only by two points.
As a disclaimer, I am still not a big fan of polls, but since the left likes them, I\'d throw it out there.
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Who\'s the elitist now?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqis9mRcWl4
I just love how they cut bits and pieces from that speech to make it seem like he\'s putting down that plumber..:rolleyes:.....McCains main concern was that he was going to be fined...turns out under Obama\'s plan he won\'t be fined....and this guy was interviewed yesterday sayin\' that he makes just under 200,000 a year....so he still stands to recieve a tax break.
Regarding Joe the Plumber... This may have been a game changer for McCain. This was a huge gaffe by Obama. It is much bigger than people originally thought.
Now the left has been investigating Joe like he is a political candidate to somehow discredit him. For what? It was Obama who walked into his neighborhood, not vice versa and it was Obama that made the gaffe from a pretty run of the mill question posed by Joe. The guy is an ordinary citizen and now leftist blogs and media are smearing him? Politics has hit a new low.
A huge gaffe?...Obama cleared up every question that joe the plumber might have had in the debate....if he\'s still undecided and wants to vote McCain then so be it. Politics has already hit a new low when a certain presidential candidate tries to imply that his counterpart is unamerican and hangs out with terrorists.
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I think it\'s out in the open. The tax thing for small businesses? And everyone on the cusp of that $250,000 cut off should rightfully decide whether they really want to check Obama in Nov.
That\'s honest politics and I\'m glad. Is that the gaffe we\'re talking about?
(Didn\'t see the debate)
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Obama\'s comment on "spreading the wealth to people less successful" is the gaffe. To me and others I have talked to seems to have been a huge mistake on Obama\'s part.
No. Really. You\'re kidding me. Barack Obama actually told that Joe the Plumber guy that he wants to "spread the wealth around." What, did Obama just get done reading the Wikipedia entry on Huey "Share the Wealth" Long or something? Was he somehow channeling that left-wing populist from the Depression? Talk about playing into the most extreme stereotype of your party, that it is infested with socialists.
A while back I chatted with a University of Chicago professor who was a frequent lunch companion of Obama\'s. This professor said that Obama was as close to a full-out Marxist as anyone who has ever run for president of the United States. Now, I tend to quickly dismiss that kind of talk as way over the top. My working assumption is that Obama is firmly within the mainstream of Democratic politics. But if he is as free with that sort of redistributive philosophy in private as he was on the campaign trail this week, I have no doubt that U of C professor really does figure him as a radical. And after last night\'s debate, a few more Americans might think that way, too. McCain\'s best line: "Now, of all times in America, we need to cut people\'s taxes. We need to encourage business, create jobs, not spread the wealth around."
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commerce/2008/10/16/did-barack-spread-the-wealth-obama-just-blow-the-election.html
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If the left doesn\'t think this is impacting the polls, look again, latest national polls have McCain trailing only by two points.
As a disclaimer, I am still not a big fan of polls, but since the left likes them, I\'d throw it out there.
You mean the AP-Yahoo poll? Don\'t make me laugh. That thing isn\'t even anywhere close to what the other polls are. It\'s an internet based poll that says it\'s not to be used for the same purposes as the other ones.
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Not that it\'s any more reliable, but it was Gallup.