PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Coredweller on November 14, 2008, 10:41:04 AM
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The "Big Three" US auto manufacturers are requesting a bailout to avoid bankrupty. I\'ve been thinking about this for a few weeks, and I still can\'t decide on the correct course of action. I guess I\'m glad I\'m not the one making the decision!
On the one hand, Republicans seem to be against a bailout, and I have to admit I agree with their reasoning.
Chances of ‘Big Three’ bailout looking slim
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27718233/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27718233/)
The likelihood of a government bailout for the struggling U.S. automotive industry looked slim Friday, after a senior Democrat said the measure will face overwhelming Republican opposition during a lame-duck session of Congress next week.
Congressional Democrats are reportedly pushing forward with a $250 billion rescue package for U.S. automakers, but Sen. Chris Dodd, chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, said Thursday the package lacks the support to pass because of Republican opposition.
...powerful senators like Richard Shelby of Alabama appear willing to let the U.S. automakers collapse. Shelby said in a statement recently that the problems facing the Big Three are the product of their noncompetitive structure and not the current economic downturn.
I agree that Ford, GM, and Chrysler largely brought this on themselves. I think we have all seen the writing on the wall for years, but the Big Three ignored it. I\'ve been reading the industry journal Automotive News for years, and it seems that every other issue has a cover story about the decline of US manufacturers\' market share, and the overwhelming success of Toyota and Honda in the US market. Maybe other areas of US manufacturing are more deserving of a bailout than these guys.
On the other hand, representatives from the auto industry claim that failure of the Big Three would result in a catastrophic blow to our overall economy. I think that\'s very true also.
The cost of GM\'s death
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081114/ANA02/811149966/1078 (http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081114/ANA02/811149966/1078)
If Congress thinks a bailout of General Motors is expensive, it should consider the cost of a GM failure.
Let\'s be clear. The alternative to government cash for GM is not a dreamy Chapter 11 filing, a reorganization that puts dealers and the UAW in their place, ensuring future success.
No, even if GM could get debtor-in-possession financing to keep the lights on (which it can\'t), Chapter 11 means a collapse of sales and a spiral into a Chapter 7 liquidation.
GM\'s 100,000 American jobs will die. Health care for a million Americans will be lost or at risk. Hundreds of GM\'s 1,300 suppliers will die. Their collapse could take down Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC, perhaps even North American transplants. Dealers in every county of America will close.
The government will face greater unemployment, more Americans without health insurance and greater pension liabilities.
Criticize Detroit 3 executives all you want. But the issue today is not whether GM should have closed Buick years ago, been tougher with the UAW or supported higher fuel economy standards.
In the next two to four months, GM will run out of cash and turn out the lights. Only government money can prevent that. Every other alternative is fantasy.
The $25 billion in loans that Congress approved to partially fund improvements in fuel economy? Irrelevant. Dead automakers do not invest in technology.
The collapse of the global financial system has crushed the American car market, dried up revenues for the Detroit 3 and highlighted their weaknesses.
Each of the Detroit 3 is in crisis. But Ford, which borrowed big two years ago and thus has more cash today, may skip a bailout and the strings attached. Cerberus, which bought Chrysler last year, doesn\'t deserve money. Government cash might help sell Chrysler to a strategic owner.
Some Detroit critics want their pound of flesh: Throw the bums out and install a government czar. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson won\'t use any of his $700 billion bank bailout money to help manufacturers. In any case, he\'d need a guarantee that a bailout would make Detroit "viable."
Well, nobody -- not even AIG -- is insuring guarantees for viability.
The taxpayer needs protection and an upside. GM\'s top management may need to go. Government-as-shareholder deserves a big voice. Those details can be worked out.
The Detroit 3 CEOs and UAW President Ron Gettelfinger had better tell two critical congressional hearings next week what sacrifices they are prepared to make.
But the stark fact remains: Absent a bailout, GM dies, and with it much of manufacturing in America. Congress needs to do the right thing -- now.
What the hell do we do in a situation like this? As distasteful as it may be, I think we might have to bite the bullet and pay for GM\'s mistakes.
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True. If your product is less than competitive, naturally, your company profit as much. A lot of Japanese labeled cars are built here in the US and they sell much better than the Big Three. They\'re hurting from lack of sales too but at least they\'re not in the red.
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Fuck em\' Bad business plans will eat bailout money even faster than when the money belonged to them.
The banks are one thing,( that I dont agree with) but at least larger ramifications are at stake in that area.
We don\'t want our banking industry owned by foreign countries.
Bad enough Miller and AB are owned by them......
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US foreign car plants are non unionized and make a far superior car than GM. I saw something like 1300 bucks or something of every car goes to just employee benefits. Oof.
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One more thing I was just thinking about:
Assuming we do give GM this huge handout, do you think US consumers are going to be very enthusiastic about buying GM products after costing us $50B (or whatever) due to their poor business practices?
The point being, maybe the bailout wouldn\'t even work.
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The sad thing is that GM and Ford would probably be much more competitive without the Unions, and yet they are holding on to it and will all be out of jobs, I\'d rather see these morons take pay cuts so that the companies can stay afloat, but they won\'t. The people making the cars are making more than the people buying the cars. Imagine if the people making your clothes got paid 80,000 grand a year, your clothes would be much more expensive and unaffordable...
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I don\'t think the u.s. could afford the job loss....if we lost even just GM, our economy would sink into an even more depressing scenario. Yes the big 3 are to blame for their own lackluster production, but i honestly feel that the quality of american vehicles are much better than what they were years ago. Still, i guess there\'s a reason why i prefer either nissan or toyota as my car of choice.
As far as the rest of the bailout situation goes,...the banks have money, but now they don\'t want to lend anybody any loans...geez wasn\'t that the point of the bailout?..to get the currency movin\' thru the economy again? They\'re doing everything else with the money except lending to folks....and i understand the risks of lending to shady folks, but they aren\'t even lending to people with good credit.
The housing crisis?...i\'ll keep it simple,..re-structure those sub-prime loans so folks can pay their mortgage,...let the banks take a hit on the interest, at least money is flowing back into the economy and the bailout money they recieved should recoup at least some of those losses. Now let me say it\'s not going to work for everybody, for ex. let\'s say we have a married couple makin\' 70 grand a year, now that couple has no business buyin a home worth $400,000 with no money down....that is a scenario that cannot be helped or rectified.
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I think there should be some sort of clause that requires the removal of certain executives if some of these companies wanted to receive the money.
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A bailout is not going to do much. I mean would you buy a car from a company that is so fucked up that the government is bailing it out when there are better cars out there made by companies who are doing fine?
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can we stop bailing out companies and just let them fail? they won\'t learn anything if we bail them out and its costing me tax dollars. Make mistakes on your own dime.
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After this, I\'d like a bail out as well.
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You are not the only one!
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Is there an application form for bailouts?
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I want to fly to DC in private jets too...
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Hmmm....i\'m not sure if i have so much sympathy for the big three after this exchange....it seems like they\'re begging....any amount they receive will be sufficient?....:p....and i\'m sure these bigwig ceo\'s are not willing to reduce their bonuses or to stop flyin\' those private corporate jets to help save some money,...nope none of them are willing to do that.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/business/2008/11/19/sot.kanjorski.wagoner.bailout.cnn?iref=videosearch
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I dont agree with all 3 in 3 separate private jets buuuutttt
You guys do know that when you get to CEO status...alot of companies want you to do this for safety reasons right?
Don Estridge, known to the world as the father of the IBM PC, was killed aboard flight 191 along with much of the IBM executive team responsible for that project. The loss arguably put IBM at a competitive disadvantage against competitors such as Compaq. Since that accident, IBM\'s corporate travel policy has prohibited more than two company executives traveling on the same commercial airline flight.
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For OP.. Toyota may have qurterly sales higher than US makers, but GM ALWAYS is up their with them yearly, if not on top. The problem is not that people don\'t buy the cars, it is everything else.
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Yes, but have 8 or 9 private jets at 36 million a pop at your disposal at any time seems a bit much don\'t you think...
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Not to mention the maintenance involved with owning and flying private jets.
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If we bail them out, I get a free GM car. Gimme a yellow corvette. With the hot horny blonde chick in the passenger seat.
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If we bail them out, I get a free GM car. Gimme a yellow corvette. With a hot horny blonde chick and a horny hot black chick in the passenger seat.
Don\'t worry,..with Obama as prez you\'ll be able to afford both of \'em...*plants Obama sticker on gmans vette*....:fro:
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Don\'t worry,..with Obama as prez you\'ll be able to afford both of \'em...*plants Obama sticker on gmans vette*....:fro:
Oh my God! That\'s a lie! Because Obama is in the office, I expect to have a lot less take home pay so I can\'t buy the fancy electronics I want. My taxes are going to fat Laqueeta and her 9 bastard kids coz they need see a doctor and their fat mom needs a dietitian.
So...less money for me, more money for those lazy fucks.
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right, b/c you make a quarter of a million dollars a year......
also you can take your closet racist comments and stick them up back up your ass.
White 38.8%
Black 37.2
Hispanic 17.8
Asian 2.8
Other 3.4
Looks like like more of your money is going to fat ass inbred Betty Sue and her 13 rugrats.
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I hate all races. I\'m not white, BTW.
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right, b/c you make a quarter of a million dollars a year......
also you can take your closet racist comments and stick them up back up your ass.
White 38.8%
Black 37.2
Hispanic 17.8
Asian 2.8
Other 3.4
Looks like like more of your money is going to fat ass inbred Betty Sue and her 13 rugrats.
You could argue that there are more white people than there are black... And a large portion of the hispanic people in the states are illegal ;)... I\'m just saying... :)
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Regardless of race, the people on that list made bad life choices.
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What are those percentages showing?
And yes, gross lazy white people are just as disgusting as gross lazy black people, but not quite as gross as mexicans in general.
At least we can all agree on that.
:)
PS: See how awesome the smiley is when used properly?
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where IS mystique?
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This morning on the radio a local DJ was saying how now that we are facing millions of potential job losses, should we be for the bail out now?
I got a little worked up about the idea of spending another 34 to however many billion dollars of tax payer money. If we want to help out those companies, we can reduce the amount of taxes, fees, and whatever else the Big 3 have to pay the government, and they can try to keep their businesses afloat with their own money instead.
She said giving the money to the car industry is like helping out average Joes, but when it comes from our mounting national debt and our tax rolls, it hurts all of us.
Then, if anything, offer incentives for the auto industry to be competitive so they can, I dunno, sell a car or two next year.
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A new report just came about how many jobs was lost in november...and the number was over 533,000!!...that is insane....it doesn\'t matter how much money you throw at the car industry....if people continue to lose their jobs at such an unheard rate,..nobody\'s gonna be able to buy them.
Well that and if people generally prefer toyota and foreign cars over american cars in general, then i don\'t see how throwin\' more money at the big three will solve it. Because while i do feel that more people do indeed buy more foreign cars than american cars, i don\'t feel that the gap is sooo big that the big three are going out of businesss behind it....i still see a healthy amount of new american cars and trucks on the road on a daily basis.
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All of the car companies are facing sagging sales right now, that is the main reason Honda pulled out of F1.
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True,...and i\'m not challenging that,..i just question whether the big three actually need the bailout as much as they are saying....will they really be broke by the middle of next year? It\'s kinda hard to say,...but i don\'t think it\'ll look good not just to the american public if any one of the big three collapse, but it also isn\'t a good look at how the world economies see it,...let alone the thousands of jobs lost.
Kinda off topic here but the selling of budweiser was something that i thought i\'d never see....budweiser was one of the most iconic symbols of america, and while operations within the company is still business as usual (from what i understand nobody has been layed off from the transaction) it\'s still kinda weird knowing that budweiser isn\'t american owned anymore. I don\'t drink beer like that, but when i do i sometimes drink a nice cold bud-ice or molson-ice or a coors....elephants & st.pauly\'s girl aren\'t that bad either.
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Why not let them all go bankrupt and that way they can break their union contracts and actually be able to make some money.
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the union contracts are up in a year or two anyway.
if they fail, it is alot bigger than most realize. it is not just auto workers tat get fucked.
all of the privately owned dealers, all of the ppl that sell parts to these guys.
The trickle d own effect of the big 3 going down means alot more ppl will suffer.
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I disagree with that honestly, the industry is not only Ford, GM and Chrysler. You would think that a lot of those people would have lost jobs already, but they haven\'t. And the UAW workers will a lot of them will go back to working at the same plants but at a reasonable salary and not 65 an hour to put on the 2 passenger side tires.
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Don\'t forget the 2-5 million lost jobs, not to mention the welfare, medicare, pensions, ect that the govt will pay out too everyone involved.
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I disagree with that honestly, the industry is not only Ford, GM and Chrysler. You would think that a lot of those people would have lost jobs already, but they haven\'t. And the UAW workers will a lot of them will go back to working at the same plants but at a reasonable salary and not 65 an hour to put on the 2 passenger side tires.
I believe the average UAW worker is paid $27.00 per hour, which I think is reasonable.
The Big 3 automakers have much bigger problems than the UAW. But conservatives love to hate unions and blame them for everything, so I guess you can believe whatever you want.
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This country is fucked.
VOTE 2012.
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I believe the average UAW worker is paid $27.00 per hour, which I think is reasonable.
The Big 3 automakers have much bigger problems than the UAW. But conservatives love to hate unions and blame them for everything, so I guess you can believe whatever you want.
I don\'t think it\'s the hourly wage that\'s the problem. It\'s the benefits, the pensions, etc...
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yea, those pensions are what is killing them. Supposedly the UAW will pay pensions in 2010 I believe.
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(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg369.imageshack.us%2Fimg369%2F6012%2Fbailoutyk2.jpg&hash=8ceda145236d689fce7745b9bbed917afb6574c2)
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Pretty much how I feel about American cars.
Funnyman, car guy and host of both NBC\'s upcoming Top Gear USA and The Adam Carolla Show on KLSX radio in Los Angeles, Adam Carolla tells PM in no uncertain terms that the years of poor product coming from GM and the rest of Detroit brought these companies to the brink. —Ben Stewart
Popular Mechanics: So do you support the idea of bailing out the auto industry?
Adam Carolla: Every car guy or maybe even every American is torn because we hate to see these marques we\'ve grown up with go away. But the thing about American car companies is that they have been making a subpar product for a lot of years.
Remember when the Japanese crept into the market? Instead of reacting, we all had a laugh about it. We blinked our eyes and they had the lion\'s share of the market. Somewhere around the early \'80s, we started to realize we were getting our butts kicked by these little efficient Japanese cars. So we needed to start focusing on smaller, more fuel-efficient cars, and quality. We kind of got our act together. Then we started cruising again with Hummers and Denalis. We took our eye off the ball.
When you take a look at many American cars today, these aren\'t bad products. They\'re just not as good as Audi, Volkswagen, Mercedes or Lexus—the list goes on and on. When you see some of the stuff that Pontiac in particular has been doing for the last 20 years—it\'s insulting. And the interiors especially are insulting. I gotta say, every time I see one of those Pontiacs, I just want to throw up in my mouth.
Even Vettes, up until about 10 minutes ago, were sort of laughable from an interior standpoint. Really, an \'89 Jetta had a nicer interior than an \'04 Vette. The buttons were too big, the gauges looked bad, the finish wasn\'t great. Let\'s face it: The product wasn\'t there and they\'ve had plenty of opportunities to correct it.
I don\'t understand it. We can build the greatest fighter planes on the planet. It\'s not like technology is the problem. There is no reason why there should be this kind of separation between Europe, Japan and us.
Everyone wants to make the product issue about price. But I had a MINI Cooper S for a couple years. That car was sturdy and it looked good. It was smart, it was fast and it was fun. And that\'s a relatively inexpensive car.
But what about some of the new muscle cars like the new Camaro and Challenger that Detroit is building? Those are exciting, right?
I\'m not into American muscle myself. I never really fully understood it. I mean, I understand the big horsepower, but I never really got into the leaf-spring suspension and the live rear axle and the iron block and the pushrods. I take a look at those Mopars that everyone goes nuts for at the auctions. I see the bad pistol grip handle with the fake wood on it, and the fake wood steering wheel, and all the vinyl and plastic. I\'m not turned on by it, so I\'m not what you call a "muscle head."
So, all the American companies can think to do these days is reintroduce the Camaro, Challenger and Mustang? They\'re literally looking in their rearview mirror when Europe and Japan are looking through the windshield. I\'m waiting for a day in the future when Chrysler or Ford pulls the sheet off something at an auto show, and it\'s a horse. Not a Mustang, not a Pinto, it\'s actually a horse. They\'ll go so retro, it\'s actually a living horse.
These companies should be looking forward. I don\'t know what happened with GM. I know 10 years ago GM had an electric car, and they took them all back and put them in a crusher. So should we bail out the company that crushed the first modern working electric car? I don\'t think so. Now they have a new plug-in electric car called the Volt. What happened to the one from 10 years ago and what have they been doing for the last 10 years? For me, it is sort of tough love time.
So you think for the most part, product is the problem. What about the UAW and legacy costs?
If it\'s gonna cost you $2000 more to produce every Pontiac than it does every Prius, and everyone wants the Prius, you\'ve got a serious problem on your hands. The only way to remedy this deficit is to create some kick-ass product that people simply cannot get enough of. But they\'re not creating those products.
Do you think many Americans feel like they were so burned by bad product over the past 20 years that they can\'t trust the Detroit automakers again? Can good products today draw buyers back into our domestic car dealerships?
I think people have a really short memory. And that\'s good when it comes to cars. Look, not so long after WWII, everyone across the U.S. was driving a Japanese car. If the product is there, we have a short memory. I think Ford, Pontiac, Chrysler, GM—these guys are one good car away from success. We\'re not prejudiced against American cars. We\'re prejudiced against a history of subpar products.
Here\'s what Americans will do. If it\'s a coin toss between buying American or buying foreign, we\'ll buy American every time. If it just comes down to the exact same product at the exact same price, we\'ll buy an American car because we\'re patriotic. We\'ll do the right thing, but not if it costs more and not if it\'s a subpar product. What the American Big Three have forced us to do is start being unpatriotic, so we ended up buying cars from other manufacturers.
Anyone who has driven a BMW 3 Series knows what I\'m talking about. The second the Americans come out with a car that really is better than that BMW, the Audi A4 or the Prius—then we\'re back. There is a whole new generation turning 16 and getting a new set of car keys every day. We\'d like to do the right thing. We\'d like to buy American cars, just not with the current product. But they could turn things around.
Remember Audi\'s problems? Audi was a joke 10 years ago. How bad was Audi? Audi in the mid-1990s was just about gone. I can remember in the mid-\'90s, if someone told me they were thinking about getting a used Audi, I would have punched them. Now I think they make some of the most exciting products—all the way across the brand. Audi was dead. And Audi picked themselves up from the ashes. How? Started making good cars. Well, I think that\'s your answer.
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I agree with most of Adam Corolla\'s answers. He doesn\'t have a good solution to the problem because there is no good solution. He says "The second the Americans come out with a car that really is better than that BMW, the Audi A4 or the Prius—then we\'re back."
Easier said than done. For GM to produce a vehicle at the quality level of a BMW or a Lexus, they would need a miracle. You don\'t just go from shoddy GM standards to Lexus standards overnight. To accomplish that, they would have to improve on the BEST car manufacturers on the planet. That takes a great deal of time and commitment. It took Toyota decades to achieve what they\'ve done with Lexus.
Also, I disagree with his comments about Audi. Audi makes some of the most unreliable automobiles in the luxury car segment. Their rise has been more a matter of marketing genius than technical achievement.
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Also, I disagree with his comments about Audi. Audi makes some of the most unreliable automobiles in the luxury car segment. Their rise has been more a matter of marketing genius than technical achievement.
So much truth.
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There\'s a reason why after driving a Lumina and Bonneville I bought a Lexus. The reliability and design of American cars is simply pathetic.
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Bonneville\'s were horribly unreliable. I had a 92 SSEi, electrical gremlins up the ying yang, alt. issues, trans issues.
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Also, I disagree with his comments about Audi. Audi makes some of the most unreliable automobiles in the luxury car segment. Their rise has been more a matter of marketing genius than technical achievement.
I disagree with you. I have had an Audi A6 (\'06) for the past 2 years without any problems. The 2003 and newer models are a vast improvement over the previous model years.
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I disagree with you. I have had an Audi A6 (\'06) for the past 2 years without any problems. The 2003 and newer models are a vast improvement over the previous model years.
Yeah...i thought the quality of audi have improved incredibily over the years....i don\'t know what their status is as far as their reliabilty percentages currently, but i do remember those audi 5000 cars from the 90\'s,... LAWD HAMMERCY!!!, now those cars were complete garbage.
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http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/11/news/companies/auto_bailout_senate/index.htm
Big 3 baillout dead for now.
Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said the sticking point was the United Auto Workers\' refusal to set a "date certain" to put employees at U.S. auto manufacturers at "parity pay" with U.S. employees at foreign automakers in the United States.
Unions at it again......
They wonder why they are going to DC with a tin cup.
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http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/11/news/companies/auto_bailout_senate/index.htm
Big 3 baillout dead for now.
Unions at it again......
They wonder why they are going to DC with a tin cup.
I don\'t know what to say...on the one hand why should they take a pay cut when the CEO\'s won\'t even do away with or reduce the bonues they receive? Instead of taking a pay cut, they(the union workers) could have just agreed to forego the yearly raises that they recieve for say about 3 - 4 years. Then again if the unions really wanted to save their jobs, i guess they would have agreed to the terms. From what i understand it was a cut of about 3-4 dollars...which may not seem like alot, but to the average worker i can see how hard it can be to give that up.
But if it was either that or my job, then i\'d gladly give it up....i just feel that if these ceo\'s that are already makin\' millions just gave up the bonuses they recieve, the workers won\'t have to take a hit on their salary...the bonuses is just extra money for the ceo\'s in ADDITION to the yearly raise they receive from the company.
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Would you like to take a pay cut or lose your job? hmmm I\'ll get back to you on that one.......
wow
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It is just amazing to me that motherfuckers beg for money and no one is willing to budge. Everyone except for the people that have to pay for this is to blame, yet none of them want to sacrifice anything. Not to mention anytime something related to the american auto industry gets tied up, it is almost always the fuckin UAW. Let them start taking care of their precious workers pensions now instead of 2 years from now if they really want to help this situation.
Im really torn on this issue because of the possible ramifications, but something has to give.
I lost my job in November b/c of cost cutting. The economy is not fair and shit happens.
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I lost my job in November b/c of cost cutting. The economy is not fair and shit happens.
But were you able to find another one?
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Not yet, but I haven\'t exactly been 100% active in my search either.
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You could always become a pimp at an old folks home somewhere in FL ;)
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Would you like to take a pay cut or lose your job? hmmm I\'ll get back to you on that one.......
wow
Heh, sounds a bit crazy?...not to me..have you seen the economy or are you just oblivious to what is goin\' on? Seriously, i have a family to think about (granted if it was a reasonable cut)....i\'d have to swallow my pride and bite the bullet until i found something better. When i first moved to georgia, it took me exactly six months to find a gig, and that was before all of this crap with the economy went down.
Now if i was a single bachelor such as yourself then i\'d gladly tell those cats to kiss my ass, but i\'m not afforded that luxury...:(
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I don\'t get what you\'re saying
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Those poor UAW workers...
Here are figures for total compensation per hour (Wages + benefits?):
Chrysler: $75
GM: $73
Ford: $70
Toyota: $47
Honda: $42
Nissan: $41
http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2008/11/bailout-ultimate-in-lemon-socialism.html
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I don\'t get what you\'re saying
Uhm exactly what i posted...if the manager came to me with a choice of either you have to take a pay cut or we might have to let some folks go, then i\'ll take the pay cut (granted if it isn\'t outrageous)....you\'re saying that you would just quit if the manager hit you with those choices,...for me being that i have a family, i can\'t just up and quit a job like that,...i\'ll take the hit temporarily until i found another job.
I was stating that you probably didn\'t have a family since you were implying that you would just bounce if the manager gave you that option....either that or you have a ton of cash stashed somewhere and you\'re not worried about finding another gig.
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Uhm exactly what i posted...if the manager came to me with a choice of either you have to take a pay cut or we might have to let some folks go, then i\'ll take the pay cut (granted if it isn\'t outrageous)....you\'re saying that you would just quit if the manager hit you with those choices,...for me being that i have a family, i can\'t just up and quit a job like that,...i\'ll take the hit temporarily until i found another job.
I was stating that you probably didn\'t have a family since you were implying that you would just bounce if the manager gave you that option....either that or you have a ton of cash stashed somewhere and you\'re not worried about finding another gig.
I didn\'t get what you were saying because CLEARLY my original statement was joking about how the UAW wouldn\'t take the pay cut instead of losing their job. Maybe you\'re just oblivious to what\'s going on.... ;)
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I didn\'t get what you were saying because CLEARLY my original statement was joking about how the UAW wouldn\'t take the pay cut instead of losing their job. Maybe you\'re just oblivious to what\'s going on.... ;)
Haha..yup..i\'m the one that\'s oblivious...i just went back and looked at your post...my bad...:highfive: