PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Titan on January 14, 2009, 12:00:18 PM
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I just read this article on Yahoo about tobacco control and I seriously need to write a rebuttal to it. I\'m a current smoker and it is a choice that I made. The article basically states that the government needs to tax the hell out of cigarettes to get people to quit. That doesn\'t do anything. People smoke for various reasons. I started smoking socially. I\'d get drunk and run out with my friends and bum cigarettes off. But nicotine helps to calm people down too. I smoke the most when I\'m stressed out. I also smoke when I get bored or just to have a little bit of pleasure in my day. I like to smoke cigarettes. I smoke too much, yes but I do like driving around on a nice day and have a few or sitting outside on my stoop and bullshitting with my friends over a couple cigarettes.
New Jersey enacted a smoking ban in public restaurants and bars a couple years back. It is a good law, I agree, but I do feel that it is encroaching on the rights of the restaurants/bars to allow their patrons to smoke. The only places that are allowed it now are hookah bars (though I talked to the owner of one and he said getting a license to operate one is hard because of the new law), private smoke lounges and private clubs. I even heard of a law being proposed in the state to ban smoking while driving. Yet, up until recently you were allowed to text while driving (but couldn\'t talk on the cell phone).
However, the more I grew used to the law, the more I began to like it. It really isn\'t bad to go outside to have a cigarette. I usually smoke after meals anyway so going outside after I pay the check really isn\'t bad. And at bars, all the smokers go outside and congregate together and bullshit.
This is the article. I tried posting the full thing for you guys but I went over in characters.
http://health.yahoo.com/news/healthday/usflunksontobaccocontrolreportcard.html
According to the American Lung Association\'s State of Tobacco Control 2008, the federal government as well as most states failed to enact critical policy measures, such as higher taxes on cigarettes and to adequately regulate tobacco products.
The government really shouldn\'t, I feel. As part of this country, we have the right to choose. I choose to smoke and they shouldn\'t be raising taxes and policy to encroach on my right to smoke. Laws so others don\'t have to be subjected to my habit are good. I won\'t smoke in a bar or restaurant so others don\'t get second hand smoke. But raising taxes is ridiculous. Taxes on a pack are high as it is. The least I pay for a pack of Camels is 6 bucks. It adds up and with the nature of nicotine addiction, raising the taxes isn\'t helping anyone except the government making money. Because I, as are others, are addicted, they will pay more. Its like a crackhead getting ripped off on a rock. He will still pay the higher price to satisfy his addiction.
"Effective tobacco control saves both lives and money,"
If he\'s talking about what his organization was talking about before, its not saving money. People are still paying for cigarettes as I have stated before.
another 50,000 die from exposure to secondhand smoke
I honestly still doubt the effects of secondhand smoke. Haven\'t seen nor really researched into the matter but I feel the studies are exaggerated or biased in some way. I grew up around my family smoking and was always breathing it in and never had a problem, nor has any non smokers I\'ve known who were around secondhand. Though, I could be wrong.
"All the while, tobacco companies continue to find new ways to keep smokers hooked," he said. "Each day, the tobacco industry lures 1,100 kids into becoming regular daily smokers. Also each day, 1,000 people die from tobacco-related diseases. It\'s easy to see from this arithmetic that the tobacco industry is motivated to attract new young replacement smokers."
This guy from the lung association is so biased it isn\'t even funny. I do not see how tobacco companies are finding new ways to keep people hooked. Phillip Morris, who is a tobacco giant has a website dedicated to smokers who want to quit. They can\'t advertise in most cases, the only form they can is on magazines. And those are even pretty limited to certain types. And I seriously don\'t see how they are luring kids into it. Is there some guy from the tobacco company waving a pack in front of kids saying "you know you want to."? Most kids start smoking because they think its "cool" and because "everyone is doing it"; peer pressure. I have friends in south Jersey who say they got into it when they were teens because that was "just the way it was growing up" and that they were around it and it was just a part of life.
This year\'s report card for the federal government was "abysmal," Paul Billings, the association\'s vice president for national policy and advocacy, said during the teleconference.
I find it funny that this guy uses the term "report card" in his rhetoric.
An "F" for a cigarette tax -- the federal government\'s cigarette tax is 39 cents per pack, well below the "F" standard of anything just less than 60 cents a pack.
As stated before, they shouldn\'t be taxed to shit. It should be states rights to tax tobacco.
The report card also faulted the federal government for not doing more to increase access to smoking-cessation programs, Billings said. "While the Medicare drug program covers smoking-cessation drugs, the federal government does not require state Medicaid programs to cover cessation treatments and services for Medicaid recipients," he said. This, despite the fact that people receiving Medicaid smoke at almost a 60 percent higher rate than the national average, he added.
I have to agree with this guy here. There should be smoking-cessation programs more widely available for those who have trouble quitting. Quitting isn\'t the problem with smoking, at least for me. The problem is staying away. I quit cold turkey for a while and didn\'t have an issue until some personal stuff came up and I relapsed and haven\'t made any effort since (even though I\'m over it) to quit.
The CDC estimates that smoking costs the U.S. economy more than $193 billion each year, including $96 billion in health-care costs and $97 billion in lost productivity, Connor said.
I honestly don\'t see how it is costing the economy this much each year. I would have thought people buying cigarettes and the money going to farming, producing, etc is helping the economy. The money is still being spent. And this billions of dollars to health care costs I would think benefits the medical industry. The loss in productivity I can see though. But, I do admit, when it comes to understanding the economy, I\'m pretty bad at it and hope someone explains this better to me.
"Firstly, the Congress must give the U.S. Food and Drug Administration authority over tobacco products," Connor said. "State governments must step up and fully fund tobacco-cessation programs, increase cigarette taxes, and pass comprehensive smoke-free air laws."
no
David Sutton, a spokesman for Altria Group Inc., the parent company of the tobacco giant Philip Morris, said: "We sell our products only to adult consumers. We are looking for folks who choose to smoke who are of legal age to do so. We are going to compete for their business, but we are not looking to recruit new smokers and we certainly don\'t want anyone under age using tobacco products of any kind."
Sutton said Philip Morris is "opposed to excise taxes on cigarettes and tobacco products because they unfairly burden adult tobacco consumers." The company supports the efforts of smokers who want to quit and endorses having the FDA regulate tobacco products, he said.
I like this guy and he\'s right, 100%. Tobacco is an adult product and taxing tobacco unfairly burdens those who choose to smoke. It would be like highly taxing a cheeseburger at McDonalds because it causes obesity. Those people who smoke know its harmful effects. I know them and I choose to smoke. Taxing them and having me pay higher prices I feel is ridiculous. I feel like I\'m being targeted and discriminated against just because I choose to smoke.
The last thing I want to say is the tobacco industry is a legitimate industry. There is a demand for tobacco and they deliver. They aren\'t out "to get" anyone. They compete with one another just like any other business. They are targeting people who choose to use their products and aren\'t trying to get people hooked. Tobacco has nicotine in it. Its addictive. Its found naturally in the plant. There are cigarette companies out there that take it out. But most people smoke for the nicotine fix. They shouldn\'t be vilified because they offer a product for adults to consume, if they so choose. Smoking is bad. But so is most fast food. Should we be targeting McDonalds because they offer a fatty food?
Ok I\'m done and I\'m going outside for a cigarette.
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im already too cheap for cigarettes.
since i dont smoke i didnt read all of your post :D. but i do think taxing it up the ass is pretty lame. they should go back to concentrating on keeping kids from smoking for dumb reasons and letting adults do what they want.
but i am definitly not upset on how few places there are to smoke..i dont feel like getting smacked with irony and getting cancer when i dont smoke
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im already too cheap for cigarettes.
since i dont smoke i didnt read all of your post :D. but i do think taxing it up the ass is pretty lame. they should go back to concentrating on keeping kids from smoking for dumb reasons and letting adults do what they want.
but i am definitly not upset on how few places there are to smoke..i dont feel like getting smacked with irony and getting cancer when i dont smoke
Thanks, lol. That\'s why I tried to break it up so people can read what they want. But you\'re right, they need to go after the kids to not smoke in the first place. Its like porn. People bitch that kids are getting it. But like cigarettes, its targeted to adults and is their item.
I\'m not upset anymore either where I can\'t smoke. Its fine by me. I have enough self control to wait and smoke. And if I\'m at a bar and want to smoke, I just go outside and socialize there. No big deal. When I can\'t smoke in my car is when I\'ll be really pissed off (and supposedly Jersey is trying to do that).
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Titan,
I\'m on the fence about this. While I personally find cigarette smoke offensive, I also find that anything that restricts a person\'s rights is wrong. I don\'t think you have any right to complain though. Here in New York we are about to see a big hike in MTA prices. If i had my choice I\'d vote for a tax hike in a luxury like cigarettes rather than an increase in a neccesity like transportation. I think you need to pick and choose your battles because taxes on something that\'s gonna kill you anyway is not something to whine about.
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I think you need to pick and choose your battles because taxes on something that\'s gonna kill you anyway is not something to whine about.
Except that it is always one of the things that they raise taxes on. Smokers are always targeted that way. Every so often here in Jersey, you see notices on registers that the state of New Jersey is raising taxes on tobacco and to call a number to voice opinions. Thankfully, they haven\'t been raised. And why do you say I don\'t have the right to complain? How about this, since you don\'t always have to ride MTA (you can get a bike or take a taxi), maybe you don\'t have the right to complain. And plus, your MTA prices are probably raising because its more expensive to run the MTA now-a-days, not because they feel like taxing it so they make more money for the government.
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Except that it is always one of the things that they raise taxes on. Smokers are always targeted that way. Every so often here in Jersey, you see notices on registers that the state of New Jersey is raising taxes on tobacco and to call a number to voice opinions. Thankfully, they haven\'t been raised. And why do you say I don\'t have the right to complain? How about this, since you don\'t always have to ride MTA (you can get a bike or take a taxi), maybe you don\'t have the right to complain. And plus, your MTA prices are probably raising because its more expensive to run the MTA now-a-days, not because they feel like taxing it so they make more money for the government.
Actually, its because the city needs to raise funds. The same thing as taxes.
Cigarettes and public transportation just don\'t equate in my book. If your gonna bitch about something, bitch about something like the patriot act, income taxes, or pollution. Something that actually hurts the general public.
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Actually, its because the city needs to raise funds. The same thing as taxes.
Cigarettes and public transportation just don\'t equate in my book. If your gonna bitch about something, bitch about something like the patriot act, income taxes, or pollution. Something that actually hurts the general public.
And raising taxes on tobacco isn\'t a state raising funds? They\'re probably raising the price of MTA because they need funds to keep running it. The ticket prices probably aren\'t enough to keep things moving so they are raising the prices, like everything else.
Maybe I don\'t give a shit about the patriot act, income taxes or pollution. I honestly don\'t care about the patriot act, I get most of my money back on my income taxes because I work off the books. Honestly if I want to bitch about something that affects me, this is something that affects me. And it does hurt the general public because there is a large amount of people in this country who smoke. You don\'t give a shit because it doesn\'t affect you. But tobacco policies do affect a large number of Americans.
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A) Your better off without them. Your health and wallet will benefit.
B) The MTA is actually cutting lines and laying off workers. They expect the citizens, who have been effected just as bad, if not worse, by the economy to pick up the tab. Essentially they\'re driving people out of the city. Now THAT\'S fucked up.
Honestly I don\'t care other people do with their lives. It just irks me that they\'re OK things like the capital gains tax and massive government spending, but the second you start hiking the tax on their cigarettes, that\'s when they get angry. Then they bitch and moan about the high cost of health care in America while they light a cigarette. It\'s just flat out ignorant.
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Me no care.
Tax the hell out of the things.
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Me neither...i hate the smell of those cancer sticks....and women that smoke?..yeah they may look cool from afar, but once you get a whiff of their breff?....Lawd Hammercy....their gases are kickin\' like jet li!!!...:sick:
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i enjoy cigarettes every once and a while but im all for taxing the crap out of them if that means keeping the tax on beer and gas down
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pack of smokes in canada will cost you 7.91$ american. Cartons are 50-70$. They started taxing the hell out of it here awhile ago.
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i enjoy cigarettes every once and a while but im all for taxing the crap out of them if that means keeping the tax on beer and gas down
I\'ll drink to that....:beer:
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pack of smokes in canada will cost you 7.91$ american. Cartons are 50-70$. They started taxing the hell out of it here awhile ago.
HA HA..I get mine for $27
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Tax the fuck out of it. It\'s terrible for the health of the smoker and everyone that they force their smoke onto. Not only that but 3/4 of all litter I see on the ground is cigarette butts.
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oh god. Forgot about that. busy intersection medians are ridiculous. What is it about smokers that don\'t realize what they are doing by throwing the buts out is illegal?
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oh god. Forgot about that. busy intersection medians are ridiculous. What is it about smokers that don\'t realize what they are doing by throwing the buts out is illegal?
I do think it should be illegal. I can\'t talk though. I throw my butts out my window but only because I don\'t have an ashtray in my car. I feel like such a hypocrite too because I try to be as ecofriendly as possible. I try to keep a water bottle or Wawa coffe cupo or something in my car to dump them in which works out real well. Those things take a long time to biodegrade. I actually can\'t believe there hasn\'t been more pressure on tobacco companies to produce a filter out of biodegradable material. I\'m sure its more than possible.
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I do think it should be illegal. I can\'t talk though. I throw my butts out my window but only because I don\'t have an ashtray in my car. I feel like such a hypocrite too because I try to be as ecofriendly as possible. I try to keep a water bottle or Wawa coffe cupo or something in my car to dump them in which works out real well. Those things take a long time to biodegrade. I actually can\'t believe there hasn\'t been more pressure on tobacco companies to produce a filter out of biodegradable material. I\'m sure its more than possible.
Should be illegal? You mean it is illegal. Every smoker has their little excuse to why they dump their butts wherever but they all do it. Hell the tax you\'re complaining about could easily be used to help the problems all that litter causes.
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I do think it should be illegal. I can\'t talk though. I throw my butts out my window but only because I don\'t have an ashtray in my car. I feel like such a hypocrite too because I try to be as ecofriendly as possible. I try to keep a water bottle or Wawa coffe cupo or something in my car to dump them in which works out real well. Those things take a long time to biodegrade. I actually can\'t believe there hasn\'t been more pressure on tobacco companies to produce a filter out of biodegradable material. I\'m sure its more than possible.
You say you are eco friendly then you talk about using water bottles in the following sentence. :rolleyes:
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Should be illegal? You mean it is illegal. Every smoker has their little excuse to why they dump their butts wherever but they all do it. Hell the tax you\'re complaining about could easily be used to help the problems all that litter causes.
Not to mention the brush fires that some of those butts can cause when they\'re flung to the side of the road.
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You say you are eco friendly then you talk about using water bottles in the following sentence. :rolleyes:
First off I said TRY to be ecofrieldnly. then, i said i use water bottels to put out my butts when i drive my car. aslo if you read my post you\'d see i said i shouldn\'t talk becaue i\'m ahyprocrite because i said i thorw my butts out the window