PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Mr. Kennedy on August 08, 2009, 06:34:36 PM
-
http://www.11alive.com/video?maven_playerId=immersiveplayer3&maven_referralObject=1208541313
And by “constituent,” I of course mean crypto-Nazi political terrorist. You’ll find the full unedited exchange right here but I’m giving you the news segment because it provides important context. Like, for example, that the guy who asked Scott the question actually is one of his constituents, contrary to what the distinguished gentleman implies. And that his “hijacking” of this town hall (which wasn’t devoted to health care) came during a Q&A session in which attendees were in fact allowed to ask about anything. But aside from that, he’s very, very Nazi, baby.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhotair.cachefly.net%2Fimages%2F2009-08%2Fbeeler-jefferson.jpg&hash=f29421bf39633003763fb61ec0d7f72818f0a4d4)
-
that guy was obviously a plant by the republicans.
-
republican loony.
-
that guy was obviously a plant by the republicans.
Clearly, because asking tough questions is so wrong
-
The politician lost his temper but his answer was basically "people want it so I\'m gonna vote for it" and he didn\'t answer or seem to know anything about the plan having been shown as a failure somewhere.
The questioner was confrontational, but not really out of line in my opinion. Hopefully the exchange ends up bringing out some more info for this guy before he votes on something.
-
I didn\'t think he was confrontational at all. Especially at first. The guy had a question and it wasn\'t answered at all.
-
Only a bit. When he didn\'t have the mic he kept shouting over the crowd which got people riled up. You\'re right tho, it wasn\'t that bad since the politician just ignored the question basically.
-
I wish he started referring to himself in the 3rd person, grabbed the mic in his hand while finger-pointing at the crowd, and started calling them jabronis
-
Seems to be catching
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/11/specter.town.hall/index.html#cnnSTCVideo
-
Oh well people are even getting knocked the f**k out at some of these heated meetings. And here i thought only those crazy asian polititians "bruce lee" each-other. Seriously tho, i don\'t get why people are being such a$$holes about this...that public option is NOT being forced on anyone...and Obama keeps repeating it.
These people are acting like mindless drones whose freedom and liberty are being taken away from them...it\'s not, but if something isn\'t seriously done about healthcare, it\'s going to continue to bankrupt the economy...there\'s no easy solutions, but something has to be done.
-
i don\'t get why people are being such a$$holes about this...that public option is NOT being forced on anyone...and Obama keeps repeating it.
But everyone is being forced to pay for it since it comes out of the tax pot.
So not only am I going to be paying for my own healthcare, but also my neighbor\'s, who loves to stay home and watch TV & eat potato chips while I\'m at the gym.
I can see both sides to the story, I just like to debate :thumb:
-
The problem seems to be that most people are just arguing and getting agitated over lies instead of actually finding out how the plan works and deciding whether or not they want to pay for it.
I just wish we\'d agree to have the plan and then keep the hit to taxpayers even by wiping out funding to other, less important things.
-
The problem seems to be that most people are just arguing and getting agitated over lies instead of actually finding out how the plan works and deciding whether or not they want to pay for it.
I just wish we\'d agree to have the plan and then keep the hit to taxpayers even by wiping out funding to other, less important things.
What lies?
I think this just goes to show that America doesn\'t want or need socialized health care. This riots would not be occurring if the government had just kept their hand out of the cookie jar.
-
What lies?
The lies that the gov\'t is taking over healthcare....it\'s not....the public option is only going to be there as another possibly cheaper option.....and again nobody is forcing you to take it.
-
The lies that the gov\'t is taking over healthcare....it\'s not....the public option is only going to be there as another possibly cheaper option.....and again nobody is forcing you to take it.
While that is true, everyone will still have to pay for it in addtion to what ever provider they continue to use.
Then again, I guess that is not much different than paying for the people that use county hospitals for services.
-
Lies like how the government will have a death panel that kills undesirable senior citizens and locks Sarah Palin away in a dank basement where she will be fed through socially provided I.V. drips that will provide her just enough nourishment to survive long enough to be elected president in 2012.
-
My respect for Republican Senators Murkowski and Isakson just increased considerably. I am relieved to learn that not all Republicans are self defeating lunatics.
Palin stands by \'death panel\' claim
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090813/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_end_of_life (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090813/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_end_of_life)
Palin\'s posting came one day after Republican Sen. Lisa Murkowski of Alaska said that Palin and other critics were not helping the GOP by tossing out false claims. Portions of the Democratic health care bills "are bad enough that we don\'t need to be making things up," Murkowski said, invoking a phrase that Palin used in her resignation speech, when she asked the news media to "quit making things up."
Murkowski said she was offended at the death panel terminology. "There is no reason to gin up fear in the American public by saying things that are not included in the bill," she said.
Georgia Sen. Johnny Isakson, a Republican who co-sponsored a similar measure in the Senate, said it was "nuts" to claim the bill encourages euthanasia.
And Rep. Earl Blumenauer, D-Ore., who authored the provision on end-of-life counseling, said he is astounded that Palin has not tempered her bleak descriptions of the health care bill.
"It\'s deliberate at this point," Blumenauer said. "If she wasn\'t deliberately lying at the beginning, she is deliberately allowing a terrible falsehood to be spread with her name."
He said the measure would block funds for counseling that presents suicide or assisted suicide as an option, calling references to death panels or euthanasia "mind-numbing."
-
The lies that the gov\'t is taking over healthcare....it\'s not....the public option is only going to be there as another possibly cheaper option.....and again nobody is forcing you to take it.
How am I not forced to take it if my perfectly good insurance is no longer provided to me by my employer who no longer feels the need to give me this benefit?
-
public option is designed to put private insurance out of buisness period end
-
The lies that the gov\'t is taking over healthcare....it\'s not....the public option is only going to be there as another possibly cheaper option.....and again nobody is forcing you to take it.
Option... no it\'s...
we\'ll tax you and you can have the government program.
or, we\'ll tax you and you can keep paying for your private insurance.
Where is the option? it\'s lose-lose.
-
public option is designed to put private insurance out of buisness period end
So according to your logic walmart should have put k-mart and Target out of business....it hasn\'t.
.. no it\'s...
we\'ll tax you and you can have the government program.
or, we\'ll tax you and you can keep paying for your private insurance.
Where is the option? it\'s lose-lose.
People act like medicare and medicaid aren\'t gov\'t ran programs...they are...this public option will still have all of the major healthcare ins. companies aetna/bluecross, blueshield...etc, but if you like the perks that your employer is giving you, you won\'t have to change.
-
People act like medicare and medicaid aren\'t gov\'t ran programs...they are...this public option will still have all of the major healthcare ins. companies aetna/bluecross, blueshield...etc, but if you like the perks that your employer is giving you, you won\'t have to change.
You think medicare is successful?
Medicare faces continuing financial challenges. In its 2008 annual report to Congress, the Medicare Board of Trustees reported that the program\'s hospital insurance trust fund could run out of money by 2017. The trustees have made such projections in the past, but this one was bleaker than the outlook reported in 2007.
http://www.seacoastonline.com/articles/20090513-BIZ-905130331
And of course you\'ll have to change if your employer stops providing health insurance for you. Where are you getting these wacky ideas from?
-
Really, this health care thing to me is something we should\'ve had all along. We\'re just catching up on this one. The fact that we have to shoehorn it into our corrupt (or at least outrageous) health care setup now is what\'s going to make it more expensive than it should be, but hopefully when so many people are being represented by the national plan, the gov\'t can throw some weight around to bring prices down overall.
Clips brought up WalMart and while I didn\'t agree with his metaphor before, you can see how an entity with huge national reach can be a real bully to its supplier\'s costs. The government will end up being such a vital health care customer that the industry will have to go out of its way to beat the competition\'s prices and keep the government\'s business, no?
Hell, your private insurance might end up being cheaper, too, since it\'ll be competing with the national plan and really, that\'s been the point all along. To make health care affordable to everyone, as it should be.
The only problem is people don\'t want to pay for it, and seeing the real costs of this thing is the only thing that should matter to people and to politicians.
-
So according to your logic walmart should have put k-mart and Target out of business....it hasn\'t.
That\'s logic you just can\'t compete with. lol
So you are saying I already pay for walmart and I can go there for free, but I need to wait my turn. Or if I want, I can still pay for walmart and pay more money and go to Target? Dude, I\'m fucking in!!! That\'s awesome!! I get to pay twice?
-
People act like medicare and medicaid aren\'t gov\'t ran programs...they are...this public option will still have all of the major healthcare ins. companies aetna/bluecross, blueshield...etc, but if you like the perks that your employer is giving you, you won\'t have to change.
Can you please explain to me why my employer will pay money to give me Aetna if there is a public option that is already paid for in taxes?
I have never heard a realistic argument on this.
-
you watch, vid....if this gets through, people who have worked hard all their lives so that they make some decent scratch won\'t qualify for a fucking dime....
-
hey clips, did you go to college? Did you have to pay full price?
Just wondering, not throwing stones here, man...
-
Can you please explain to me why my employer will pay money to give me Aetna if there is a public option that is already paid for in taxes?
I have never heard a realistic argument on this.
Some employers have already dropped their insurance plans because they can\'t afford it anymore and i don\'t mean small business employers,....your employer will eventually drop coverage if things continue to stay along this path anyway...something has to be done.
Nothing is perfect, but the public option will keep ins companies honest....i don\'t see how it\'s going to absolutely put every major private insurance company out of business....not unless it\'s offering it\'s services for super cheap...and that is not likely.
You think medicare is successful?
I never said it was successful...i mentioned that because folks act like the gov\'t isn\'t part of your everyday lives...Bush was too obsessed with the iraq war to get things done on healthcare and now we have somebody that sincerly wants to fix it and people think the gov\'t is taking over...don\'t be ridiculous.
People don\'t want the gov\'t to do anything for them, but when there\'s a catastrophy, they are the first folks that people come screaming to....people need to relax..gov\'t involvement doesn\'t always have to be a bad thing when it\'s attempting to get something done right. The fact that you posted how medicare will be bankrupt also proves that we have to do something about the crisis before it gets out of hand.
This whole situation is ugly because nobody gave a s**t about it when everybody was makin\' money...now that everything is against the wall Obama has some tough decisions to make. Is he going to have to raise taxes?..most likely,..but we can\'t keep sustaining this turbulent downfall.
-
hey clips, did you go to college? Did you have to pay full price?
Just wondering, not throwing stones here, man...
I actually went to a technical school on a half scholarship thru a work program at my high school.
-
how did you qualify for the scholarship?
-
I\'m kinda sketchy on the details...this was waaay back in 88....but i do know it involved only a handful of students and that your grades had to be good....you had to have nothing less than C to qualify(only A\'s & B\'s)...i remember being in my arts talented class when they offered the program.
I want to say that they only offered this program to students that were in the higher end special classes like engineering and car mechanics tech...i guess i just made it since i was in an arts talented class which was a few notches above your regular arts class.
-
So according to your logic walmart should have put k-mart and Target out of business....it hasn\'t.
the analogy doesnt work because none of those are run by the govt (yet!). If walmart want to stop being profitable then they could put everyone out of buisness.
Govt doesnt care about turning a profit govt healthcare is designed to put prices so out of reach that there is no way private insurance could restructure quick enough to not go out of buisness.
-
...nothing to see here...
-
Some employers have already dropped their insurance plans because they can\'t afford it anymore and i don\'t mean small business employers,....your employer will eventually drop coverage if things continue to stay along this path anyway...something has to be done.
Nothing is perfect, but the public option will keep ins companies honest....i don\'t see how it\'s going to absolutely put every major private insurance company out of business....not unless it\'s offering it\'s services for super cheap...and that is not likely.
I never said it was successful...i mentioned that because folks act like the gov\'t isn\'t part of your everyday lives...Bush was too obsessed with the iraq war to get things done on healthcare and now we have somebody that sincerly wants to fix it and people think the gov\'t is taking over...don\'t be ridiculous.
People don\'t want the gov\'t to do anything for them, but when there\'s a catastrophy, they are the first folks that people come screaming to....people need to relax..gov\'t involvement doesn\'t always have to be a bad thing when it\'s attempting to get something done right. The fact that you posted how medicare will be bankrupt also proves that we have to do something about the crisis before it gets out of hand.
This whole situation is ugly because nobody gave a s**t about it when everybody was makin\' money...now that everything is against the wall Obama has some tough decisions to make. Is he going to have to raise taxes?..most likely,..but we can\'t keep sustaining this turbulent downfall.
God, you make me want to pull my hair out sometimes. If government can\'t deliver healthcare on a small scale (such as medicare) how the fuck is going to do it for the general public? We would have more people taking out of the system than paying in... the math doesn\'t work!
And for people who say we\'re just catching up, why don\'t you ask Daniel Hannan what he thinks of the National Health Service that he lives with over in the UK.
-
I wish someone would stand up to Obama like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94lW6Y4tBXs
-
I imagine employers will only need to offer their own plans if they find things to offer not covered by the gov\'t plan, or if they somehow can get you better rates than what\'s in the gov\'t plan.
By the way, since all taxpayers pay into it, do you need to "enroll" or is it as it should be, we can all walk into a hospital and save?
If that\'s the case, then having a private insurance policy would allow you everything in the national plan plus whatever additions or better prices that private plan can offer.
If the gov\'t plan is all encompassing, it might make some private plans obsolete and then employers will have more cash to give you instead of to health insurance companies. If that happened, you\'d end up paying less in health insurance since you\'d be sharing the burden nationwide instead of just within your small company. You might even get a raise. Hypothetically.
-
If the gov\'t plan is all encompassing, it might make some private plans obsolete and then employers will have more cash to give you instead of to health insurance companies. If that happened, you\'d end up paying less in health insurance since you\'d be sharing the burden nationwide instead of just within your small company. You might even get a raise. Hypothetically.
Heh...i was also thinking along these lines...this would free up alot of headaches for employers and possibly give them more capital for raises or other ventures...sadly tho, i\'ve been hearing that Obama and company might be doing away with the gov\'t option and go with a co-op plan whatever that is,..i just heard a brief news flash on it.
Anyway i did hear obama say over the weekend that he did only support a gov\'t plan that wasn\'t supported on the back of taxpayers....he wanted it to be set up just as if you were paying your individual premiums and not something that everybody has to pay into....so for all those folks stating that taxpayers would be payin\' for this, that would be a negative....but sadly the mindless sheep hear gov\'t and automatically think they\'re takin\' over.
Nobody won\'t be satisfied until there\'s no money left for anything then folks will REALLY see what happens when gov\'t gets involved....he\'s not tryin\' to take over,..i believe he\'s trying to find the best way to cut costs without havin\' to hit the tax payer.
-
Oh america, its time to come out of the dark ages where only the 5 richest kings of europe could afford a Livmedikus (doctor).
Stop fighting the modern times. :D
-
unfortunately - money is a motivator
Our current system has been in place for many years and is quite successful. I have never been denied a claim... ever. I\'d like to see the government top that.
-
I agree. I can\'t imagine having to file a claim with the government and what a headache that would be.
No tax increase and only the people who want the insurance pay for it? Um, clips.. That is what we have now.. You are saying to us what Obama is saying, but you do realize that Obama is not writing this bill, right? He can spew whatever he wants to see in the thing, but if the house and senate can\'t do it, then oh well. The way he is doing it works for him. He can just say "They" couldn\'t get it done. "They" had to raise your taxes because it was the only way. Whatever... I\'m going to go blow some shit up on COD.
-
unfortunately - money is a motivator
Our current system has been in place for many years and is quite successful. I have never been denied a claim... ever. I\'d like to see the government top that.
That\'s bulls**t....last year my daughter had an infected index finger, and i was trying to get coverage for her...and right before "they" (the ins co.) would cover her, they asked if she had any pre-existing conditions...i told them about my daughters finger, and they immediately told me they wouldn\'t cover her...i called over 5 well known ins companies and they gave me they exact same answer....(aetna/ bluecross/blue shield and a few others that i haven\'t heard of)
I ended up getting my daughter coverage thru a state program provided by "gasp" the gov\'t :ohnoes:...so yeah Obama is on to sdomething when he states that these ins.companies basically only want to cover healthy people...why wouldn\'t they cover my daughter over a finger?....it\'s bulls**t these ins.companies are telling you what they will cover and what they won\'t yet when it\'s the gov\'t doing it..it\'s bad thing...great logic there...*Plus Obama has stated that he won\'t allow these ins.co. to deny you because of pre-existing conditions*.
I agree. I can\'t imagine having to file a claim with the government and what a headache that would be.
No tax increase and only the people who want the insurance pay for it? Um, clips.. That is what we have now.. You are saying to us what Obama is saying, but you do realize that Obama is not writing this bill, right? He can spew whatever he wants to see in the thing, but if the house and senate can\'t do it, then oh well. The way he is doing it works for him. He can just say "They" couldn\'t get it done. "They" had to raise your taxes because it was the only way. Whatever... I\'m going to go blow some shit up on COD.
I agree to a certain extent....he is letting the congress and the house come up with ideas, but that\'s only because he wants something bi-partisan....but he also wants something that that shares his views on healthcare reform as well...i do feel he needs to be more hands on and just say "this is what i want in my healthcare reform bill"....this healthcare thing is a problem that both dems and repubs have never gotten a handle on..even before obama came up with this gov\'t option, employers was dropping ins. coverages on a daily basis because they couldn\'t afford it.
You may still have your employer paid coverage, but if nothing is done, it\'ll only be a matter of time before they drop some services or drop coverage completely.
-
Wait... you flat out called FIVE insurance companies, none of which you were insured by, OF COURSE your not going to get coverage. Great spin job.
You want to talk about horror stories, my grandma broke her hip, she only has medicare (the Gov\'t option), and they told her that she\'d have to wait FIVE freaking weeks to get it operated on. So what the FRICK is she supposed to do for the next five weeks? Walk around with a broken hip? It\'s embarrassing, and I would not wish that on anyone.
-
Yeah, not sure what that example really has to do with anything. Insurance companies make money based on gambling on your good health. If you come in with a bum flipper, why would they want to pay to fix the flip? How about we make this deal. I give you 5 bucks if you give me 50.
-
Maybe i\'m missing something here, but i still don\'t get where you two are getting at. If i don\'t have insurance and i\'m calling around to get a family package, you mean to tell me that i shouldn\'t be able to receive coverage because i\'m not with an employer or because of my daughter\'s pre-existing condition of her finger?...still don\'t see the logic and it doesn\'t make sense at all.
So they(the ins co.) were willing to give me coverage because everybody in my family was in good health, but when i told them of my daughter\'s finger they refused?....there\'s something incredibly wrong with that scenario...if i\'m willing to pay for the package that they were offering, my daughter\'s finger should have nothing to do with it.
The ONLY time i feel anybody should be denied and this is going a bit off topic is when somebody is trying to get life insurance on somebody who is basically on their death bed....then i can see a reason for denial, since the person trying to gain coverage is only looking for a quick cash out.
-
OK.. do you seriously not understand the logic as a business deal?
Here is the agreement I want to do with you. I have a family of 4. I want you to be there for me if I ever need you. You are my sort of safety net. I\'m going to pay you 100 dollars a month. But I have to tell you one thing. My son has an arm falling off that will cost $350,000 to re-attach. The arm is barely attached so I need to do it pretty soon. So here is my 100 bucks.. Now over the next month you have to pay my doctor 350,000...
Or, you can just say no.
-
OK.. do you seriously not understand the logic as a business deal?
Here is the agreement I want to do with you. I have a family of 4. I want you to be there for me if I ever need you. You are my sort of safety net. I\'m going to pay you 100 dollars a month. But I have to tell you one thing. My son has an arm falling off that will cost $350,000 to re-attach. The arm is barely attached so I need to do it pretty soon. So here is my 100 bucks.. Now over the next month you have to pay my doctor 350,000...
Or, you can just say no.
I actually understand that scenario....but my situation is nowhere near as severe as that. I can see being denied for something you described, but my daughter had an infected finger that only needed to be treated with some antibiotics...ultimately yes the medication and follow up would\'ve cost more than my 150 a month bill, but my whole thing is why they would deny me for something as minor as that.
Eventually with time i would\'ve ended up paying for these treatments ten times over, and i understand in some scenarios the ins. folks have a right to deny people, but why even advertise on tv that we\'ll cover you or that you have great affordable packages, but you won\'t cover folks with pre-existing conditions as simple as something as a infected finger?
I see what you\'re sayin\', i just don\'t feel it\'s right to deny people for something almost symbolic as a scratch.