PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Mr. Kennedy on November 17, 2009, 06:09:50 AM
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(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mint.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F11%2FMINT-TAXES-R2.png&hash=e49036c24853f12ee844e59458eeee91f2a97732)
I mean come on, clearly the upper classes are not paying enough taxes. Only 40+% of their income goes to the government. Meanwhile the lower class is paying an astronomical 2.9%
Clearly we need to raise taxes - those rich folk are getting away with murder.
/Sarcasm
I\'ll take all of your comments, rants, conspiracy theories, and misinformation in post form. Thanks!
(It\'s also worth noting that 46.9% of people have zero tax liability, tell me how that\'s fair)
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Oh and in case people are wondering, there is a solution...
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fairtax.org%2Fimages%2Fcontent%2Fpagebuilder%2F16764.jpg&hash=f51b73d53afeae03a460a838cce0e4dabb1759ac)
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I heard Huckabee talking about the virtues of fair tax and I love many aspects of it. I definitely think it would make people save more, but it would also make the poor poorer and possibly theft more common. What do you think?
Here\'s the vid btw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm4YG-xhLpM
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poor people are inconvenient.. please don\'t mention them again
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Fair tax in theory is a great idea, yet it is very, VERY far from being realistic.
I also have never had any problems with the rich paying more out of pocket. Part of the reason they are rich are off of the backs of those that are making 10k-100k a year.
Very few of the wealthy people in the country got their money from hard work on their own.
Besides, lets not forget about all of the massive deductions they get away with.
Id like to see what other countries are doing as far as taxes but am far too lazy to look anything up right now.
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poor people are inconvenient.. please don\'t mention them again
Since most of them don\'t pay income taxes what right do they have to complain about "the system"
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Since most of them don\'t pay income taxes what right do they have to complain about "the system"
They don\'t.
At what dollar amount does one have to file a return again?
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Very few of the wealthy people in the country got their money from hard work on their own.
Paris Hilton?
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Fair tax in theory is a great idea, yet it is very, VERY far from being realistic.
I also have never had any problems with the rich paying more out of pocket. Part of the reason they are rich are off of the backs of those that are making 10k-100k a year.
Very few of the wealthy people in the country got their money from hard work on their own.
Besides, lets not forget about all of the massive deductions they get away with.
Id like to see what other countries are doing as far as taxes but am far too lazy to look anything up right now.
Why is it so far from being realistic? The best part about fair tax is it gets rid of the IRS and forces EVERYONE to pay taxes. Travelers, illegals, drug dealers, under-the-table dealings, etc... all have to pay for the facilities & services provided to the public. I also hate being taxed for SAVING my money.
The current tax system was made by politicians ages ago. Fair tax was the brainchild of top economists around the country. Folks from the government and random people on the interweb may have a simple opinion, but I think that says a lot right there.
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Very few of the wealthy people in the country got their money from hard work on their own.
That is an incredibly asinine comment.
Let\'s check out some of the richest Americans:
1. Bill gates - created microsoft, successful entreprenuer - Fortune:self made
2. Warren Buffet - took over textile firm, expanded into insurance and investing - Fortune:self made
3. Larry Ellison - started his own company, created relational database - Fortune: self made
4. The waltons (Walmart) did inherit their money - Fortune: inherited
5. Michael Bloomberg - realized wall st. needed to go electronic so he created Bloomberg LP - Fortune: self made
Go create something that changes the world/country then come talk to me.
Just because the kid that picked on you in school drove a BMW his parents bought for him doesn\'t give you the right to hate on the wealthy - the parents are probably very successful. Sorry if yours were not, but this is life, and life aint fair. Sorry, get over it or get a better job.
"Besides, lets not forget about all of the massive deductions they get away with."
And on that comment, clearly it\'s not helping much if the top 10% percent of the country is paying 71% of taxes. What about the millions who aren\'t even LIABLE for taxes, is that fair?
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That is an incredibly asinine comment.
Let\'s check out some of the richest Americans:
1. Bill gates - created microsoft, successful entreprenuer - Fortune:self made
2. Warren Buffet - took over textile firm, expanded into insurance and investing - Fortune:self made
3. Larry Ellison - started his own company, created relational database - Fortune: self made
4. The waltons (Walmart) did inherit their money - Fortune: inherited
5. Michael Bloomberg - realized wall st. needed to go electronic so he created Bloomberg LP - Fortune: self made
Go create something that changes the world/country then come talk to me.
Just because the kid that picked on you in school drove a BMW his parents bought for him doesn\'t give you the right to hate on the wealthy - the parents are probably very successful. Sorry if yours were not, but this is life, and life aint fair. Sorry, get over it or get a better job.
"Besides, lets not forget about all of the massive deductions they get away with."
And on that comment, clearly it\'s not helping much if the top 10% percent of the country is paying 71% of taxes. What about the millions who aren\'t even LIABLE for taxes, is that fair?
Bill Gates...Lets not go there ok.....
Same with Walmart......
BTW...I do understand what you are saying. But when people achieve their success through unethical and immoral ways, they deserve to bear the brunt of taxation...lol
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Why is it so far from being realistic? The best part about fair tax is it gets rid of the IRS and forces EVERYONE to pay taxes. Travelers, illegals, drug dealers, under-the-table dealings, etc... all have to pay for the facilities & services provided to the public. I also hate being taxed for SAVING my money.
The current tax system was made by politicians ages ago. Fair tax was the brainchild of top economists around the country. Folks from the government and random people on the interweb may have a simple opinion, but I think that says a lot right there.
I guess I meant realistic as in people don\'t really seem to want a fair tax. If so it would have been done by now.
Who knows, it is apparently picking up steam though.
BTW it is going to be awfully hard to tax illegals, drug dealers, and people that pay their employees under the table or partially under the table.
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Bill Gates...Lets not go there ok.....
Same with Walmart......
BTW...I do understand what you are saying. But when people achieve their success through unethical and immoral ways, they deserve to bear the brunt of taxation...lol
Bill Gates never broke the law. And yes, while most of his products were ripoffs of other software, he somehow got his to sell while they couldn\'t. I wouldn\'t call him unethical, I\'d call him unoriginal, but with a great business plan.
Oh BTW, what OS are you using? Windows, if so, thank Bill Gates. Mac OS, that itself is a ripoff Xerox OS. Linux, built to mimic Windows and Mac at no cost to the consumer.
I really don\'t see what the problem is hear.
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I guess I meant realistic as in people don\'t really seem to want a fair tax. If so it would have been done by now.
By that argument, you could say the same thing about Universal Health Care.
Things take time - any time you have opposition its going drag reform down.
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Just popping in, but fairtax would be an abomination.
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BTW it is going to be awfully hard to tax illegals, drug dealers, and people that pay their employees under the table or partially under the table.
Eh, not with fairtax. Do you know what it is?
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Just popping in, but fairtax would be an abomination.
"random people on the interweb"
muhahaha
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Eh, not with fairtax. Do you know what it is?
Ok, was wrong about the others, what about the drug dealers? :)
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By that argument, you could say the same thing about Universal Health Care.
Things take time - any time you have opposition its going drag reform down.
We are not talking about that though are we.
For all of that I may as well bring the possibility of us all growing 7 fingers one day.....
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Bill Gates never broke the law. And yes, while most of his products were ripoffs of other software, he somehow got his to sell while they couldn\'t. I wouldn\'t call him unethical, I\'d call him unoriginal, but with a great business plan.
Oh BTW, what OS are you using? Windows, if so, thank Bill Gates. Mac OS, that itself is a ripoff Xerox OS. Linux, built to mimic Windows and Mac at no cost to the consumer.
I really don\'t see what the problem is hear.
It was never proven that he broke any laws.
Remember, the best crooks are the ones that don\'t get caught.
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"random people on the interweb"
muhahaha
Isn\'t that what we all are? I exist in real life too. Sometimes, I even vote!
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luckee... that\'s the beauty of fairtax, it taxes on consumption, not production
So whenever you buy something that\'s when you are taxed
Even better, we can put a going out of business sign on the IRS and start balancing the budget. As it stands right now, roughly 500 billion is spent by US corporations on tax compliance. With fairtax they can use that money to create jobs and pay employees.
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Ok, was wrong about the others, what about the drug dealers? :)
yes, everyone
watch the video
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This is the first time I looked through info on the Fair Tax. I like it. The only thing is how mentally shocking it\'ll be to have 23% federal and whatever % state sales tax ring up at the register. I think that number might affect the consumer mentality more than this FairTax.org seems to think...
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yes, everyone
watch the video
Or you could just explain it since you seem to know about it.
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It\'s been fairly well explained already, but in its simplest terms it\'s like this...
Our current system taxes you on production, i.e. the more you work the more you are taxed. As you move up and make more money, so too does your tax bracket, and so more money comes out. It\'s the robin hood of tax systems, because that money is often sent to the lower classes. Not that it\'s entirely bad thing, but it\'s a terrible concept to tax people on production.
Fairtax on the other hand taxes you on consumption. So, when you get a $50,000 a year job you make the full $50,000 not the 30-35k (if your lucky) that our current system has you making. And this time lists prices would be inclusive of taxes. So when you buy something for $100 (it\'s 77+23 for fairtax). So the more you spend, the more your taxed. Which is really the way it should be. It might even encourage people to save money and invest!
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So you don\'t see how this can become a problem as well?
Doing some googling (sp?) I see quite a few people talking about this flat 23% rate.
With our government, who is to say if it wont reach 50%?
50 is reaching...I know...but any higher number will do.
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hey guise whats going on?
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I\'ve heard of this flat tax rate...and i agree it does sound great, but i too agree with luckee that it\'ll probably end up being abused.
One thing i\'d like to comment on tho is that chart about the corporate tax,... imo they should keep it. Look at what happened during the bush years when that tax wasn\'t that high or applied at all to keep businesses in the u.s.,...jobs were still shipped overseas and these so-called intelligent u.s. businessmen still outsourced our manufacturing and other high tech IT jobs...look at just about anything in your home..it\'s either made in china or india or some other 4th world country. Nothing is made here anymore.
I say all that to say that the problem with america is that during that big boom of the 90\'s, alot of america has been sold to other countries just so the said businessman or women can get a quick cashout, and now you have a dilema where even college grads can\'t even find work along with experienced adults who are lining up at the unemployment office.
It all comes down to jobs...these idiots in big business don\'t understand that the more you outsource to other countries just so you can save and line their pockets with money, that is more americans without a job not being able to buy your product....all they care about is a quick cash out and they don\'t give a s**t about anybody else.
So all this talk of taxing structure and the healthcare argument at the moment is moot if there are no jobs for american citizens to pay for these projects...less people working means less money and taxes for the overall system. China and other upcoming 3rd world countries have the u.s. in a chokehold.
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How can you abuse fairtax in a way you can\'t abuse our current system?
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^So true. The US government is still a democracy. If taxes are too high presidents, senators, and reps don\'t get re-elected. That\'s how it works now. Simple as that.
I think it\'s all a fear of the unknown. Americans in general HATE change. Most of us have the "if it ain\'t broke don\'t fix it" mindset when it comes structuring our system. This attitude can actually be healthy, but also damaging in the long run (look at Microsoft).
The best part about fairtax is making what you actually earn. It would be nice to see the full $3000 every paycheck vs. ~$2000, post income taxes. Plus Americans in general don\'t know how to save properly. This system would encourage investing, building up retirement accounts, IRA\'s, etc...
Assuming that the income tax goes away forever I see no real downside here.
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Actually, it would be harder to abuse the Fair Tax. If it goes up from 23% to 43% you see it. But when someone changes something inside our current tax system, who the hell ever sees?
Just like they can now, the government can tax the hell out of us, but with a more straightforward system, it\'d be easier for us to see what\'s happening and make more informed choices at the ballot box.
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Just like they can now, the government can tax the hell out of us, but with a more straightforward system, it\'d be easier for us to see what\'s happening and make more informed choices at the ballot box.
Probably the biggest reason we\'ll never see it. Politicians love to hide tax increases.
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I remember when forbes was running for prez, that he was a big fan of this tax, even back then i liked it\'s concept, but his opponents at the time pointed out some flaws of it that i can\'t remember, but if it works the way it\'s supposed to, then i don\'t know why it hasn\'t been emplemented....well yeah for the reasons posted above, just sayin\' in general.
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I\'ve heard of this flat tax rate...and i agree it does sound great, but i too agree with luckee that it\'ll probably end up being abused.
One thing i\'d like to comment on tho is that chart about the corporate tax,... imo they should keep it. Look at what happened during the bush years when that tax wasn\'t that high or applied at all to keep businesses in the u.s.,...jobs were still shipped overseas and these so-called intelligent u.s. businessmen still outsourced our manufacturing and other high tech IT jobs...look at just about anything in your home..it\'s either made in china or india or some other 4th world country. Nothing is made here anymore.
I say all that to say that the problem with america is that during that big boom of the 90\'s, alot of america has been sold to other countries just so the said businessman or women can get a quick cashout, and now you have a dilema where even college grads can\'t even find work along with experienced adults who are lining up at the unemployment office.
It all comes down to jobs...these idiots in big business don\'t understand that the more you outsource to other countries just so you can save and line their pockets with money, that is more americans without a job not being able to buy your product....all they care about is a quick cash out and they don\'t give a s**t about anybody else.
So all this talk of taxing structure and the healthcare argument at the moment is moot if there are no jobs for american citizens to pay for these projects...less people working means less money and taxes for the overall system. China and other upcoming 3rd world countries have the u.s. in a chokehold.
Yeah but they don\'t care because they\'re rich and there is a big self-centeredness in this country that I think is wrong. People only look out for themselves rather than others and only give a shit about how they can get ahead and make more money.
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Yeah but they don\'t care because they\'re rich and there is a big self-centeredness in this country that I think is wrong. People only look out for themselves rather than others and only give a shit about how they can get ahead and make more money.
And that will ultimately be the downfall of this country...greed.
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And that will ultimately be the downfall of this world...greed.
fixed
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Yeah but they don\'t care because they\'re rich and there is a big self-centeredness in this country that I think is wrong. People only look out for themselves rather than others and only give a shit about how they can get ahead and make more money.
Libertarian values in a nutshell.
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Libertarian values in a nutshell.
What\'s wrong with individualism? There\'s a lot of people who don\'t even get off their ass and are handed a welfare check every week. Why should I be paying for that person?
fuck collectivism
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Fair tax while sounds interesting, wouldn\'t it pretty much wipe out tourism from abroad? If I was planning a trip and I had 5 countries to chose frm, do you think I\'d go to the one that was going to charge me 20+% tax on everything I\'d buy?
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And that will ultimately be the downfall of this country...greed.
But it\'s also why this country succeeds with innovation. So we\'re even.
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Fair tax while sounds interesting, wouldn\'t it pretty much wipe out tourism from abroad? If I was planning a trip and I had 5 countries to chose frm, do you think I\'d go to the one that was going to charge me 20+% tax on everything I\'d buy?
Nope it really wouldn\'t. Well unfortunately I don\'t have the luxury to just get up an go on a vacation. I have to plan out my trips. So If I new there was 20+% tax on a country i was to visit. I would just save a little more money to cover the extra cost and spend only what my budget allows.
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There\'s the fact the corporations are taxed heavily already. Relieving them of this would theoretically make the prices about the same.