PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: meddude2000 on December 23, 2000, 04:03:28 AM
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i dont know if this has been posted already or not. from
http://cgi.gaming-age.com/gaming/news/news.pl?y=2000&m=12&nid=22-129.db
Today, it has been confirmed that the Xbox will ship without DVD movie playback support. DVD playback will be offered as a seperate expansion package that will include a remote control and Ravisent\'s CineMaster DVD playback software. Now the PlayStation 2 will be the one and only console out there with the ability to play DVD movies out of the box, and in our opinions, that gives it somewhat of an advantage.
[Edited by meddude2000 on 12-23-2000 at 07:07 AM]
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The Dreamcast dosen\'t have DVD playback... it\'s not doing as well as it needs to, but it\'s not exactly dying either. The GameCube will have NO DVD movie playing ability.. does that mean it will die? No.. not in the least.
I don\'t see a problem with the DVD add on ability if the components are reasonably priced.
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Xbox doesn\'t need DVD playback to win the console wars, but having it is definitely a big plus. That\'s why I\'m sorta leaning towards buying a PSX2 because of it.
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People have been expecting XBOX with a DVD playback and they most of them were accepting it as a plus.
Now DVD playback is not a plus?
GameCupe wont have any problems if it has no DVD playback because people want it for games only not for general computer entertainmet.
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I want another \'pure\' gaming console. I don\'t want internet connections or DVD players, I just wanna play games!
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Sony isnt trying to make us use PS2 as a computer entertainment console but that we have the chance either for general computer entartinment or a plain gaming console.Thats what Phill Harisson said
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Yep SonyFan, but when the dreamcast was launched DVD was still in it\'s infancy. Nowadays many people will see the advantage
of having this option on PS2, as most people are now adopting the DVD format. VHS will be wiped out very soon,
not just due to DVD but also new technogy\'s such as recordable HDTV. This is being launched over here in the UK as we type. Could this have been a mistake from microsoft? The PS2 is now looking a little bit more tempting to
those who want DVD players. Hell why not have the best of both worlds. Sony may shift a lot more PS2\'s due to this move by Microsoft. Mmmm The X-Box probably wont use DVD quality Video for the Rendered sections of games, this has got to be down to it obviously not having a DVD hardware
Decompressor. if it did have one then DVD should be thrown in easily. have you used a software DVD player on your pc? quality sucks, Even on my Athlon 700. i wonder if were going to get crappy PC style FMV footage with crappy compression methods. This is where the PS2 can shine,
Top Quality (Allbeit with a decent cable) MPEG2 Hardware assisted playback, This will matter to quite a few people
Who are big into the film adapted games, they want top quality motion film. Anyways iv\'e gone on too long, Could this be my longest post? :D
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I\'ll shy away from the antics in the other thread and simply say, I had a DVD player before Dreamcast came out even. I don\'t need another. And everyone I know who thought DVD was important has bought one. I got one friend who doesn\'t care about DVD, so it wouldn\'t affect his decision either way, so in conclusion, MY EXPERIENCE is, that DVD playback is a minor feature. There, no fighting! No flaming! I knew I could resist! :D
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Originally posted by EThugg
I\'ll shy away from the antics in the other thread and simply say, I had a DVD player before Dreamcast came out even. I don\'t need another. And everyone I know who thought DVD was important has bought one. I got one friend who doesn\'t care about DVD, so it wouldn\'t affect his decision either way, so in conclusion, MY EXPERIENCE is, that DVD playback is a minor feature. There, no fighting! No flaming! I knew I could resist! :D
I totally agree w/you EThugg, the dvd playback feature is a minor feature. I think in the long run, this is a really good move by MS. MS studied how PS2 was selling in Japan and even though the hardware was selling great, the "Matrix" was the top selling piece of software. Since MS is going to lose tons of $ off of the console sales, they want to make sure that the games are selling as much as possible.
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First off, you need to be smacked for the title of this subject. Second, none of the consoles, \'cept the PS2 will have DVD playback out of the box. Big deal. Its a game console. Not a movie player. Geeze.
We may as well go screaming "OH MY GOD THE PS2 IS GONNA DIE, IT DOESN\'T HAVE A HD OUT OF THE BOX, LIKE THE XBOX!"
Its a trade off...Big deal.
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
First off, you need to be smacked for the title of this subject. Second, none of the consoles, \'cept the PS2 will have DVD playback out of the box. Big deal. Its a game console. Not a movie player. Geeze.
We may as well go screaming "OH MY GOD THE PS2 IS GONNA DIE, IT DOESN\'T HAVE A HD OUT OF THE BOX, LIKE THE XBOX!"
Its a trade off...Big deal.
I agree with Living-In-Clip, we buy these machines for the games not for the DVD playback...again like I said the DVD playback is a big plus BUT when it comes done to whose gonna win the wars, its all about the games.
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I just wanted to point out to some in this thread that all this really means is that you need to buy a remote to get DVD playback, not really a big deal. I am willing to bet this came to be due to pressure from publishers. (i am very sleepy so please ignore any odd entence structures and spelling ;) )
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Microsoft is seeing that DVDs are out selling Ps2 games in alot of places, and they don\'t won\'t to be in the same situation.
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Animal Mother ofcourse DVDs are outselling PS2.PS2 was not ment to replace DVD players.
And imagine the PS2 DVD player trying to compete all the other DVD players avilable.Does it seem logical to win over the other DVD players?Or any other DVD player to win over the others?
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Originally posted by Unicron!
Animal Mother ofcourse DVDs are outselling PS2.PS2 was not ment to replace DVD players.
And imagine the PS2 DVD player trying to compete all the other DVD players avilable.Does it seem logical to win over the other DVD players?Or any other DVD player to win over the others?
:) he is talking about the games, not the machines. No one wants a repeat of the PS2 Japanese launch because of the poor Movies to Games purchased ratio by PS2 owners.
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DVD movies was the big selling point in Japan, not the US. American buyers can get a DVD player far cheaper, then the current PS2 price. DVD play back is not a must for a game console. While, Sony is throwing everything in \'cept the kitchen sink, which is fine, don\'t get me wrong. The other consoles are going to focuse more on making a game console. Nothing more then that. Also, its not like DVD playback won\'t be offered, just not right out of the box. The same with Nintendo\'s GC, as Panasonic will make a version that offers DVD playback. That way, consumers will be able to choose if they want to pay the extra money for DVD playback.
Infact, alot won\'t probally. By the time the Xbox is released DVD players will be cheaper and so common, that it won\'t be a big deal to own one. With MS excluding DVD playback they can cut the target price and not charge people for something they may already have.
Its a sad thing indeed that some people are throwing tissy fits over DVD playback! People, people! We play games, not DVD movies. And I suspect most of you either own or WILL own a DVD player of some sort by the time the Xbox launches. So does it really matter?
Is it that you are upset that the Xbox won\'t have DVD playback? Or is it really that you just want the Xbox to fail? So, that the no-DVD playback out of the box, just seems to be another \'nick\' in its console life? If one was to judge by the title of this thread, I think it would be safe to come to the conclusion, that this thread was nothing more then an attempt to make a bigger issue out of a trivial thing. The Xbox will not die , just because it does not have DVD playback. Just as the PS2 will not win the "war" because it has DVD playback.
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"Yep SonyFan, but when the dreamcast was launched DVD was still in it\'s infancy. Nowadays many people will see the advantage
of having this option on PS2, as most people are now adopting the DVD format." - StAnZo
DVD technology was definately not in it\'s infancy when the DC launched. According to several Playstation timelines I\'ve seen, Sony and Toshiba negotiated on weither or not Toshiba would supply the DVD drive for the PSX. However Sony decided to go with a CD drive since the DVD market was, at that time, in it\'s infancy and practically non-existant. Long term, it may have payed off somewhat in todays DVD starved market if it would have survived the short term.. which was higher development costs, licencing fees, and very limited availability. If you think Nintnedo made a mistake using carts for the N64... that decision would have paled to the mistake Sony would have made in including DVD capability back in 1994-95.
When the Dreamcast launched two years ago.. the DVD market was growing substancially. It was a potential goldmine had Sega decided to go with it. For their own reasons, whatever they are, they decided not to include it in the box and instead focused on a Dreamcast DVD Add-on prototype. Unfortunately it\'s too little too late now, and the add-on will almost certainly never be released.
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I knew X-Box would die. It\'s crap, it\'s just a computer made for gaming, it even uses a windows interface. To play a game, you must go to \'start/programs/games\'
PS2 will dominate the entire market, of course, there will be a few losers who buy the nintendo or the X-box (or even the dreamcast) but the majority will buy PS2, due to its great games and great graphics.
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I knew X-Box would die. It\'s crap, it\'s just a computer made for gaming, it even uses a windows interface. To play a game, you must go to \'start/programs/games\'
PS2 will dominate the entire market, of course, there will be a few losers who buy the nintendo or the X-box (or even the dreamcast) but the majority will buy PS2, due to its great games and great graphics.
My God, you are one of the absolutely most unimformed people I\'ve ever come across on the internet.
By the way, your post was unneccessary. The things you say have no relevance to the topic.
And to the topic starter - the fact that Xbox is lacking a simple extra doesn\'t mean it is going to die. You are overexagerating this situation insanely. :)
The Xbox still has DVD; it is just optional. If you still want to get it, you pay the what will probably be 25 dollars and get it.
It\'s not the end of the world for Xbox, and you very well know it. :)
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Originally posted by Potatocake
I want another \'pure\' gaming console. I don\'t want internet connections or DVD players, I just wanna play games!
Can\'t a console equipped with a capability to play DVD\'s be \'pure\'?
Heh, I know you didn\'t mean this straight but let me ask you.
Would PSX2 be better WITHOUT DVD-capability?
Ask yourself and you\'ll find the answer.
The answer, of course, is no. Whether of what point of view you look at it.
Sorry if I completely missed the point here.
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those who think DVD capability is not a plus is a complete idiot. There will be thousands of momies who will choose that console for their kids because of that. The momies dont know or care about specs or numbers on a console. Only computer geeks do and theyre a smaller % of purchasers than the regular mom or dad.So the general public will choose PS2 over all the other consoles ,it will out sell DC,X-box and Gamecube.
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This DVD thing is another WAY MS want too RIP PEOPLE OFF.. They HAVE the HARDWARE ALREADY THERE. There just gonna make it so you have too buy a CD too use it.. This sucks.
Way too go MS.. Rip off your fans and the gamers.
What will be funny. This may SHOT them in the foot. I see people bootlegging the cd..
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Originally posted by §ôµÏG®ïñD
This DVD thing is another WAY MS want too RIP PEOPLE OFF.. They HAVE the HARDWARE ALREADY THERE. There just gonna make it so you have too buy a CD too use it.. This sucks.
Way too go MS.. Rip off your fans and the gamers.
What will be funny. This may SHOT them in the foot. I see people bootlegging the cd..
Atleast MS gives us the option to buy the DVD software and remote control as an add-on then just throwing in some 3rd rate quality DVD player. I don\'t know about Sony, but I think MS wishes for something other than the "Matrix" as its best selling game. I\'m perfectly happy with MS\'s decision. Let\'s see a console equipted with broad band support right out of the box, the beefy NV2A GPU which will be capable of unbelieveable graphics and the inclusion of a harddrive in every XBox will all mean greatness. Not having 3rd rate DVD playback a rip off? NAW, just a BLESSING IN DISGUISE!!!
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Originally posted by §ôµÏG®ïñD
This DVD thing is another WAY MS want too RIP PEOPLE OFF.. They HAVE the HARDWARE ALREADY THERE. There just gonna make it so you have too buy a CD too use it.. This sucks.
Not at all. We have no idea of the final price of the XBox, therefore you cannot say it\'s a rip off. If the ommition of DVD playback means the console is cheaper than it would have been, then this is GOOD for most gamers. Those willing to pay the extra 30-40$ or so for DVD facilities can do so later. Gee, that\'s so expensive, how can they possibly afford it! :p :rolleyes:
How quickly some forget the mess Sony had with DVD drivers when the PS2 was released in Japan. Even today, DVD on the PAL version of the PS2 is plagued with problems (green screen issues, fluctuating brightness etc).
By providing DVD as an add-on, MS can go ahead 100% with the console launch in Japan/US in 2001 without concerns over DVD regional problems or playback issues. If such problems do occur later with the DVD add-on, it can be modified and replaced easily. If the problem with DVD playback on my brother\'s PS2 turns out to be a design problem with the console itself, then there\'s nothing he can do but to wait and hope that Sony can retify the problem and allow him to exchange his console (unlikely IMO).
Way too go MS.. Rip off your fans and the gamers.
[/B]
Without knowing the price of the XBox and DVD add-on, you cannot call it a rip-off.
Besides, after the purchase of a remote control unit for the PS2, and sitting through DVD movies with alternating levels of brightness, I\'m beginning to feel ripped off by Sony (I paid for it as a Christmas present!).
In contrast, the remote control unit WILL BE INCLUDED in the DVD expansion pack on the XBox;
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-4237941.html?tag=st.ne.1002.bgif.ni
"Microsoft will offer DVD playback as an option with the Xbox, McCann said. Buyers who want to use the console to play movies will buy an expansion pack that will include a remote control and the CineMaster software"
Given that you need to buy a remote control unit to get the most out of DVD on the PS2, the XBox\'s add-on looks far from being a rip-off! The cost of the add-on is really just the price of the remote control unit (the software would probably be free!).
What will be funny. This may SHOT them in the foot. I see people bootlegging the cd.. [/B]
We\'ll have to wait a see the DVD expansion pack. If it includes a hardware based add-on and/or copy protection, then the CD would be useless to other XBox owners!
[Edited by Dr Yassam on 12-30-2000 at 01:01 PM]
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Originally posted by Dr Yassam:
Besides, after the purchase of a remote control unit for the PS2, and sitting through DVD movies with alternating levels of brightness, I\'m beginning to feel ripped off by Sony (I paid for it as a Christmas present!).
actually thats probaly because u have your ps2 hooked up through your vcr and all dvd players do that so u can\'t pirate dvds
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DVD in ps2 was installed into the console so that you can play DVD ROM games! but since it was the same type of disc (DVD) so sony decided to chuck in a DVD PLAYER because it wouldn\'t cost less if the excluded the player! This way you can play games on one disc instead of the 4 discs in games such as Final Fantasy.
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Originally posted by Sublimesjg
actually thats probaly because u have your ps2 hooked up through your vcr and all dvd players do that so u can\'t pirate dvds
Thanks, I\'ll pass that information to my brother. He\'s using one of those all-in-one TV+VCRs (I know, bad choice!), so you could be right. :)
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Originally posted by zip77
DVD in ps2 was installed into the console so that you can play DVD ROM games! but since it was the same type of disc (DVD) so sony decided to chuck in a DVD PLAYER because it wouldn\'t cost less if the excluded the player!.
Er...yes...everybody knows that zip!!! Perhaps you could elaborate further on your \'bunch of imbeciles\'!!!
Whilst I don\'t agree with some of the points raised in this thread, most have been well argued.
[Edited by Dr Yassam on 12-30-2000 at 04:38 PM]
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Originally posted by AVG25
Atleast MS gives us the option to buy the DVD software and remote control as an add-on then just throwing in some 3rd rate quality DVD player. I don\'t know about Sony, but I think MS wishes for something other than the "Matrix" as its best selling game. I\'m perfectly happy with MS\'s decision. Let\'s see a console equipted with broad band support right out of the box, the beefy NV2A GPU which will be capable of unbelieveable graphics and the inclusion of a harddrive in every XBox will all mean greatness. Not having 3rd rate DVD playback a rip off? NAW, just a BLESSING IN DISGUISE!!!
You call this a BLESSING.. HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA man thats rich. I remember not that long ago i heard Xbox fans saying.. "ohh wicked xbox has dvd". Now its. Ohh it doesn\'t really matter.
Man liston. I\'m in Australia. When the DVD drivers and control come out for the xbox. They will probley cost around 100 Australian dollers. This is for a DVD remote and DRIVERS... Tell me, Why can\'t they give u the system ALREADY with the Drivers like ps2. Then just make the REMOTE the addon too buy. I\'ll tell u why. This way they can jack up the price more. Its simple man. They have NOTHING too gain from not doing this. Otherwise they would be giving you the drivers with it. It is a way MS is gonna take more money out of people.
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Originally posted by Dr Yassam
Not at all. We have no idea of the final price of the XBox, therefore you cannot say it\'s a rip off. If the ommition of DVD playback means the console is cheaper than it would have been, then this is GOOD for most gamers. Those willing to pay the extra 30-40$ or so for DVD facilities can do so later. Gee, that\'s so expensive, how can they possibly afford it! :p :rolleyes:
How quickly some forget the mess Sony had with DVD drivers when the PS2 was released in Japan. Even today, DVD on the PAL version of the PS2 is plagued with problems (green screen issues, fluctuating brightness etc).
Maybe you should learn too hook up your system probley.. Say not through a VCR.
By providing DVD as an add-on, MS can go ahead 100% with the console launch in Japan/US in 2001 without concerns over DVD regional problems or playback issues. If such problems do occur later with the DVD add-on, it can be modified and replaced easily. If the problem with DVD playback on my brother\'s PS2 turns out to be a design problem with the console itself, then there\'s nothing he can do but to wait and hope that Sony can retify the problem and allow him to exchange his console (unlikely IMO).
Like i said.. Don\'t use a VCR man. The only problem is that your not hooking it up right.
Without knowing the price of the XBox and DVD add-on, you cannot call it a rip-off.
Besides, after the purchase of a remote control unit for the PS2, and sitting through DVD movies with alternating levels of brightness, I\'m beginning to feel ripped off by Sony (I paid for it as a Christmas present!).
Again.. not through VCR. I can call it a RIP OFF. Because instead of just giving people the DRIVERS with the system.. You have too go out and Buy them.
In contrast, the remote control unit WILL BE INCLUDED in the DVD expansion pack on the XBox;
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-4237941.html?tag=st.ne.1002.bgif.ni
"Microsoft will offer DVD playback as an option with the Xbox, McCann said. Buyers who want to use the console to play movies will buy an expansion pack that will include a remote control and the CineMaster software"
Given that you need to buy a remote control unit to get the most out of DVD on the PS2, the XBox\'s add-on looks far from being a rip-off! The cost of the add-on is really just the price of the remote control unit (the software would probably be free!).
See this is what i don\'t get.. Why not give people the DRIVERS.. Then make the DVD remote the addon. See i can use my ps2 DVD right out of the box.. You have too PAY for your DVD remote EVEN if you didn\'t want it.
I can see the same for ps2 DVD.. But man.
You still paying for the DVD parts in your XBOX. The only thing your not paying for is the drivers.
YOU ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR THE DVD. So now MS make you buy the DVD drivers probley for around 100 Australian.
This is how i see MS ripping people off. You have allready paid for the DVD, But you can\'t use it till you get the drivers. So Microsoft are making more money, by making it so you have too buy the drivers.
If you can\'t understand let me say it again..
You have already brought the DVD when u buy the xbox
Your paying for the DVD parts as u buy the xbox.
We\'ll have to wait a see the DVD expansion pack. If it includes a hardware based add-on and/or copy protection, then the CD would be useless to other XBox owners!
It will happen man. People throught PS2 and DC wouldn\'t get copied. Yet it did... Trust me. If its on CD or DVD it will get Bootlegged.
[Edited by §ôµÏG®ïñD on 12-30-2000 at 09:45 PM]
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*laughs boisterously to the most extreme extent of the word rude*
Oh naty, your hate for Microsoft is characteristic to that of NG\'s hate for Sony (in the old, old days). Dip your head in liquid nitrogen and then read this (http://www.msxbox.com/features_php/addon.php3)
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[arsehole on]
I don\'t hate MS avvy. I hate the way they do things. I\'m half right man.. You DO buy the DVD drive. But u need a CHIP too use it for DVD. This chip won\'t be too big man. Its probley something small and cheap. Something that cost the least too sell. MS are SMART business people. They will put everything in it thats EXPENSIVE, Then keep a part out thats cheap.
Think of it this way.. They say the System could be 250 right... But they say it would be around 300 with the DVD. Now i think its more like this.. They system with the DVD hardware is around 250. BUT the part they take out probley will be a 5-10 doller cheap part + the Remote and drivers add another 20. Thats 35 dollers.. The total cost for all of it is.. 285.. Thats 25 dollers cheaper then if you brought them all sperate. 25 USA dollers is 50 Aus dollers...
I donno.. Maybe i\'m just the type of person who thinks that if i have a DVD drive. I would want it too run movies too. Its kinda a waste having the hardware but only using it for some games.. I doubt all games will be on DVD. Its like having a ps2 with a DTS system.. But u have too buy a part too use it. If you don\'t get the part it runs in stereo.
I\'m sorry if i\'m really pissin some xbox fans off. But i just think MS could have made it so you get DVD out of the box. Then made the remote a addon. This is my opinion.. You guys don\'t have too like it.. I\'m sure some of you Hate it.. but MS did hype there system.. Now there taking DVD away. This is getting too piss me off..
first the World wide release.
Then the Specs change, for the lesser.
Now the DVD is a addon.
If anyone thinks MS hasn\'t used hype. I have 1 thing too say. :rolleyes:
[/arsehole on]
So there we go.. I\'ve got all this crap of my chest. Now i\'ll be the happy camper we all love.
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Originally posted by §ôµÏG®ïñD
Like i said.. Don\'t use a VCR man. The only problem is that your not hooking it up right.
I\'ll have to investigate (most of our problems are due to combinations tried after finding the SCART connection on our PAL PS2 provides a greenish look to movies like the Matrix).
You still paying for the DVD parts in your XBOX. The only thing your not paying for is the drivers.
YOU ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR THE DVD. So now MS make you buy the DVD drivers probley for around 100 Australian.
This is how i see MS ripping people off. You have allready paid for the DVD, But you can\'t use it till you get the drivers. So Microsoft are making more money, by making it so you have too buy the drivers.
That\'s the point Soulgrind, you cannot say it\'s a rip off until you know the actually pricing structure. You say MS are making people pay for the drivers and you estimate 100$, I say the drivers are free and people merely pay the price of the remote!!!
If you can\'t understand let me say it again..
You have already brought the DVD when u buy the xbox
Your paying for the DVD parts as u buy the xbox.
Yes, and if you\'re ONLY paying for the remote when you buy the expansion pack, then it\'s NOT A RIP OFF. We\'ll see, but until MS officially announce the pricing of the XBox and the pricing and availability of the DVD expansion pack, you cannot say it\'s a rip off.
On a side-note...
According to Sony\'s Phil Harrison in EDGE magazine\'s hardware guide 2000 "With the PS2 broadband adaptor and hard drive, it is going to completely reinvent the way people play games - the kind of content that you able to play, the business model in which you obtain it, the experience you get as a result".
As we all know, the future of Sony\'s plans for the PS2 is mostly focused around it\'s broadband capabilities. Therefore it\'s likely to become a must have facility at some stage in the console\'s future.
Given the importance Sony places on an add-on which the XBox provides out of the box, it would be interesting to see if it too will be considered a rip off by some when available next year!
[Edited by Dr Yassam on 12-31-2000 at 07:39 AM]
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Originally posted by Dr Yassam
Yes, and if you\'re ONLY paying for the remote when you buy the expansion pack, then it\'s NOT A RIP OFF. We\'ll see, but until MS officially announce the pricing of the XBox and the pricing and availability of the DVD expansion pack, you cannot say it\'s a rip off.
Listen too me. You CANNOT play Movies on the XBOX out of the box.. Your not just paying for the remote. You have too buy a chip and drivers too use the DVD. So you are paying for the rest of the dvd.
Given the importance Sony places on an add-on which the XBox provides out of the box, it would be interesting to see if it too will be considered a rip off by some when available next year!
The HD and eithernet thing on ps2 is no where near as bad as the xbox.. DVD is a lot more known then Consoles on the net.. Its like this.. more people want DVD then Consoles HD and Eithernet cards. I mean, Not everyone can even USE the HD and Eithernet. not everyone has the net. DVD everyone can use. I\'ll probley get the PS2 hd and eithernet.. I\'m gonna get the Eithernet for the DC.
Point is. DVD is more of a standard then a HD for a console.
More people want DVD. So i believe sony is doing a good thing.. Not everyone wants a HD, Not everyone wants DVD. But more people want dvd then Harddrives for consoles.
I wanna see how well the PS2 Harddrives sell. It will be quite interesting too see how many people get the Xbox DVD add-on and the PS2 HD addon.
I believe the DVD add-on for Xbox will sell more. Then the Ps2 HD.. Depending on the userbase.. % wise.
I also believe that MS are doing a good thing by having a HD with the system.
DVD will bring in more general people then a HD for a system.
[Edited by §ôµÏG®ïñD on 12-31-2000 at 09:11 AM]
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Originally posted by §ôµÏG®ïñD
Listen too me. You CANNOT play Movies on the XBOX out of the box.. Your not just paying for the remote. You have too buy a chip and drivers too use the DVD. So you are paying for the rest of the dvd.
And listen to me...YOU AND I DO NOT KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE EXPANSION PACK WILL BE!!! :rolleyes: Perhaps it will ONLY be the remote unit and software as mentioned in that link I provided. Or perhaps it will contain a chip for copy protection or for hardware decompression. Whatever it is..WE DO NOT KNOW AS YET.
And please make up your mind...first you say "They HAVE the HARDWARE ALREADY THERE. They\'re just gonna make it so you have too buy a CD too use it", and now you saying the hardware isn\'t all there because you\'ll need an extra chip!
Which is it???
As I\'ve said already, until you KNOW what the expansion pack will consist of and until you know it\'s cost, you cannot say what is or isn\'t being paid for, therefore you cannot claim it is a rip off.
I believe the DVD add-on for Xbox will sell more. Then the Ps2 HD.. Depending on the userbase.. % wise.
I also believe that MS are doing a good thing by having a HD with the system. DVD will bring in more general people then a HD for a system.
The point about the DVD vs HD issue here is that the HD is relevant to actual gameplay in a way that DVD playback isn\'t, and games are the main application for these consoles...correct? :).
Xbox game developers can produce games which will make full use of the HD since they know EVERY Xbox will have a HD. This is something PS2 developers cannot do (unless almost every PS2 owner purchases the add-on), therefore it is unlikely that we\'ll see PS2 games which will make good use of the HD add-on for many years.
In addition, it is safe to assume that the HD/Broadband add-on for the PS2 will cost much more than the DVD expansion pack for the XBox. Hence my point about some viewing this add-on as a rip off (expensive and underused ... perhaps)! :p
However this charge cannot be made against the PS2 UNTIL we know the add-on\'s price. And THAT\'s the point I\'m making about DVD on the XBox. EVERYTHING said in this thread is based upon speculation and assumptions ONLY. Until we have the actual FACTS, claims about MS ripping off gamers are nonsence.
Anyway...enough for now...HAVE A HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! :D :D :D
[Edited by Dr Yassam on 12-31-2000 at 12:33 PM]
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Originally posted by Dr Yassam
And listen to me...YOU AND I DO NOT KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE EXPANSION PACK WILL BE!!! Perhaps it will ONLY be the remote unit and software as mentioned in that link I provided. Or perhaps it will contain a chip for copy protection or for hardware decompression. Whatever it is..WE DO NOT KNOW AS YET.
And please make up your mind...first you say "They HAVE the HARDWARE ALREADY THERE. They\'re just gonna make it so you have too buy a CD too use it", and now you saying the hardware isn\'t all there because you\'ll need an extra chip!
Which is it???
As I\'ve said already, until you KNOW what the expansion pack will consist of and until you know it\'s cost, you cannot say what is or isn\'t being paid for, therefore you cannot claim it is a rip off.
http://www.msxbox.com/features_php/addon.php3
READ IT MAN. When u buy the XBOX u get ALL the DVD parts but 1. a chip.
The point about the DVD vs HD issue here is that the HD is relevant to actual gameplay in a way that DVD playback isn\'t, and games is the key application for these consoles...correct? :).
You don\'t seem to understand man.. Without the INTERNET the HD is a waste. Developers could use it for what? without the net its as good as a BIG Mem card.
Xbox game developers can produce games which will make full use of the HD since they know EVERY Xbox will have a HD. This is something PS2 developers cannot do (unless almost every PS2 owner purchases the add-on), therefore it is unlikely that we\'ll see PS2 games which will make good use of the HD add-on for many years.
I just wanna know what u think developers would have the games put on the HD.. I mean u shouldn\'t need ANY installion on the HD sense its a console. So therefore the HD is only good for downloading say, Demos MAYBE patches etc.
In addition, it is safe to assume that the HD/Broadband add-on for the PS2 will cost much more than the DVD expansion pack for the XBox. Hence my point about some viewing this add-on as a rip off (expensive and underused...perhaps)!
How i\'ve heard it is.. They Ps2 HD/Broadbadn add-on will be a 2 in 1.. When u get the BROADBAND u get the HD with it. There is some deal for it, Can\'t remember the details probley.
However this charge cannot be made against the PS2 UNTIL we know the add-on\'s price. And THAT\'s the point I\'m making about DVD on the XBox. EVERYTHING said in this thread is based upon speculation and assumptions ONLY. Until we have the actual FACTS, claims about MS ripping off gamers are nonsence.
Avvy posted facts man.. But you over looked it. I was talking about WHAT avvy posted..
Anyway...enough for now...HAVE A HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! :D :D :D
Y2k bug.. Bzzzzzzzzt...
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Originally posted by §ôµÏG®ïñD
READ IT MAN. When u buy the XBOX u get ALL the DVD parts but 1. a chip.
A chip that they themselves DO NOT KNOW THE FUNCTION OF and can only speculate, just as I said.
That chip could be many things. It may offer copy protection, it may provide hardware decompression, or it may be nothing more than a RECEIVER for the remote control transmitter (isn\'t this how the PS2 remote control works?)! Again, we DO NOT know.
I just wanna know what u think developers would have the games put on the HD.. I mean u shouldn\'t need ANY installion on the HD sense its a console. So therefore the HD is only good for downloading say, Demos MAYBE patches etc.
Yes like the PS2, no games will be installed onto the harddisk, neither will there be any patches. Game developers who have discussed the HD so far talk about viewing it as a massive memory card instead. This enables the storage of huge save games files which wasn\'t possible before. Huge game worlds which alter as the game progresses are possible. Also, a HD is SIGNIFICANTLY faster (and more robust) than a DVD drive, therefore data which would overwise be streamed from the DVD can be done MUCH better via the HD.
This all applies to the PS2 also, since that HD add-on is NOT just for storing downloaded data!
How i\'ve heard it is.. They Ps2 HD/Broadbadn add-on will be a 2 in 1.. When u get the BROADBAND u get the HD with it. There is some deal for it, Can\'t remember the details probley.
Yes that is correct, which is why I\'ve been referring to it as the HD/Broadband add-on (I just can\'t think of an easier description :)). It is a two in one unit, but what the price will be is open to speculation (hence my arguement).
Avvy posted facts man.. But you over looked it. I was talking about WHAT avvy posted..
I have overlooked nothing! Avvy\'s link is actually based upon the link I posted and supports the arguements I\'ve made so far. They too can ONLY speculate on the DVD add-on and they give arguements for and against.
Anyway...enough for now...HAVE A HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! :D :D :D
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Y2k bug.. Bzzzzzzzzt...[/B]
:D
BTW, I enjoyed the discussion SoulGrind, but now it\'s time to prepare for celebrations! Until next year...cya!
[Edited by Dr Yassam on 12-31-2000 at 01:46 PM]
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Originally posted by §ôµÏG®ïñD
Originally posted by AVG25
Atleast MS gives us the option to buy the DVD software and remote control as an add-on then just throwing in some 3rd rate quality DVD player. I don\'t know about Sony, but I think MS wishes for something other than the "Matrix" as its best selling game. I\'m perfectly happy with MS\'s decision. Let\'s see a console equipted with broad band support right out of the box, the beefy NV2A GPU which will be capable of unbelieveable graphics and the inclusion of a harddrive in every XBox will all mean greatness. Not having 3rd rate DVD playback a rip off? NAW, just a BLESSING IN DISGUISE!!!
You call this a BLESSING.. HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA man thats rich. I remember not that long ago i heard Xbox fans saying.. "ohh wicked xbox has dvd". Now its. Ohh it doesn\'t really matter.
Man liston. I\'m in Australia. When the DVD drivers and control come out for the xbox. They will probley cost around 100 Australian dollers. This is for a DVD remote and DRIVERS... Tell me, Why can\'t they give u the system ALREADY with the Drivers like ps2. Then just make the REMOTE the addon too buy. I\'ll tell u why. This way they can jack up the price more. Its simple man. They have NOTHING too gain from not doing this. Otherwise they would be giving you the drivers with it. It is a way MS is gonna take more money out of people. [/B]
SoulGrind mate, who cares about the DVD playback. I don\'t want an inferior DVD playback in my machine even if MS puts it in for free. I already have a DVD and only care for using XBox for the games. Again, I don\'t think MS wants "Matix" as its all time best selling software (which is currently the case in Japan for PS2). I say put more goodies in the XBox like a slammin NV2A GPU, HD and out of the box broadband capabilities. I want my games to shine on the XBox. I can use my actual DVD player to watch DVDs, however if I DECIDE to purchase the software for movie playback capabilites, then that\'s my option, isn\'t it!
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Originally posted by AVG25
SoulGrind mate, who cares about the DVD playback.
Quite alot of people really. Some people were gonna leave the ps2 and wait for the xbox.. They were thinking, "
Xbox has the games ps2 has.. But it also has a dvd, So i don\'t miss out on it."
I don\'t want an inferior DVD playback in my machine even if MS puts it in for free. I already have a DVD and only care for using XBox for the games. Again, I don\'t think MS wants "Matix" as its all time best selling software (which is currently the case in Japan for PS2).
The ps2 DVD is quite good really. My brother has a Sony DVD player and we tested them side by side. They looked pretty much the same. By the way!!. How can u say the MATRIX is being sold mostly for PS2. I mean, I\'m sure alot of other people do HAVE normal DVD players. Couldn\'t they be buying it for them?.
I say put more goodies in the XBox like a slammin NV2A GPU, HD and out of the box broadband capabilities. I want my games to shine on the XBox.
This is my point. All the EXTRAS, HD/Eithernet etc. YOU NEED THE INTERNET. Without the net, The Eithernet won\'t get used. The HD probley will become a BIG MEM CARD.
I can use my actual DVD player to watch DVDs, however if I DECIDE to purchase the software for movie playback capabilites, then that\'s my option, isn\'t it! [
It sure is man. I\'m not debating if its a choice or not. I\'m debating is it a RIP off.
More people will use DVD then Broadband. I\'m betting that the XBOX DVD will probley sell better then the PS2 HD/Eithernet.
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Originally posted by Dr Yassam
A chip that they themselves DO NOT KNOW THE FUNCTION OF and can only speculate, just as I said.
That chip could be many things. It may offer copy protection, it may provide hardware decompression, or it may be nothing more than a RECEIVER for the remote control transmitter (isn\'t this how the PS2 remote control works?)! Again, we DO NOT know.
The ps2 DOESN\'T NEED A DVD REMOTE too work.
You can use the normal DS2 control for it. I\'m guessing the part will be cheap. Lets find out if i\'m right when it comes out.
Yes like the PS2, no games will be installed onto the harddisk, neither will there be any patches. Game developers who have discussed the HD so far talk about viewing it as a massive memory card instead. This enables the storage of huge save games files which wasn\'t possible before. Huge game worlds which alter as the game progresses are possible. Also, a HD is SIGNIFICANTLY faster (and more robust) than a DVD drive, therefore data which would overwise be streamed from the DVD can be done MUCH better via the HD.
So your saying u will have too install BIG games on the HD first?. That doesn\'t sound like a console man. So i doubt that will happen. If it does, Then the Xbox would be becoming more like a pc then a console. Like i said. The PS2,XBOX Harddrives/eithernet will be useless unless u have the INTERNET.
Yes that is correct, which is why I\'ve been referring to it as the HD/Broadband add-on (I just can\'t think of an easier description :)). It is a two in one unit, but what the price will be is open to speculation (hence my arguement).
Same with the Xbox DVD chip and REMOTE ohh and drivers.. Hey 3 in 1.
I have overlooked nothing! Avvy\'s link is actually based upon the link I posted and supports the arguements I\'ve made so far. They too can ONLY speculate on the DVD add-on and they give arguements for and against.
Yet u never said anything about the chip.. You kept stating that we don\'t know at ALL what it is. hmmm.
BTW, I enjoyed the discussion SoulGrind, but now it\'s time to prepare for celebrations! Until next year...cya!
[Edited by Dr Yassam on 12-31-2000 at 01:46 PM]
The debate continues.. :D
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Originally posted by §ôµÏG®ïñD
The ps2 DOESN\'T NEED A DVD REMOTE too work.
You can use the normal DS2 control for it. I\'m guessing the part will be cheap. Lets find out if i\'m right when it comes out.
Agreed, let\'s wait until we know exactly what it is before calling it a rip off! Just like Sony\'s PS2 add-on, I\'m sure MS will keep the price as low as possible.
Yes like the PS2, no games will be installed onto the harddisk, neither will there be any patches...
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So your saying u will have too install BIG games on the HD first?. That doesn\'t sound like a console man. So i doubt that will happen. If it does, Then the Xbox would be becoming more like a pc then a console. Like i said. The PS2,XBOX Harddrives/eithernet will be useless unless u have the INTERNET.[/B]
NO Soulgrind, games DO NOT install on the HD. The HD is there to store data that can be (and will be) used in games, BUT NOT PERMANENTLY. Except for save games and perhaps some user data in future, most of the HD is wiped everytime you use the console!!!.
As I\'ve said, you can think of part of it as a memory card. However, and perhaps more importantly, the HD is a fast and convient way to expand beyond the limits of main memory. The HD is significantly faster than DVD AND is read/write, therefore it can be used to expand the game world in a way that DVD cannot achieve.
Most accept the possiblities of streaming data from the DVD on the PS2, yet it\'s strange those same people have difficulties understanding that this can be achieved much faster and with greater flexibility via a HD.
I doubt the HD of the PS2 will be there merely to hold content downloaded from the internet, and I doubt you can find a single article which believes the HD\'s of the PS2 and XBox will be used for nothing more.
I have overlooked nothing! Avvy\'s link is actually based upon the link I posted and supports the arguements I\'ve made so far....
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Yet u never said anything about the chip.. You kept stating that we don\'t know at ALL what it is. hmmm.
Because the arguement was NOT about the components of the DVD add-on (which we only discussed LATER), but about your claims that it was a rip-off.
My whole arguement is that without knowing the cost of the XBox and DVD expansion pack, you cannot call it a rip-off. The actual composition of the expansion pack was irrelevent to that arguement.
We do not know what the chip is. If it offers DVD decompression, then there are arguements for and against, but I don\'t see the point of discussing the expansion pack in such detail WHEN WE DO NOT HAVE THE EXACT DETAILS AS YET. :rolleyes:
When we know the costs, and if I thought it was too expensive, then I may be in agreement with you. But that\'s then and ONLY then. For now, we can only speculate.
As you said, let\'s wait and see.
Over to you... :)
[Edited by Dr Yassam on 01-01-2001 at 04:30 PM]
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News just in... Xbox will have INBUILT DVD. There isn\'t any need for a chip. BUT HAHAH get this.. You STILL have too buy a REMOTE.. RIPP OFF ANYONE.. Microsoft what are you DOING.
http://www.msxbox.com/php/full_post.php3?id=468
read it here.
Guess what this means.. People that BUY the xbox will be PAYING FOR THE DVD Hardware movie player parts.. Decoder etc.
Think of it like this.. Imagine Coca Cola.. Selling Coke cans. But u can\'t drink them.. Without a can opener.
Catch is.. Only Coca Cola sell this special can opener.
[Edited by §ôµÏG®ïñD on 01-03-2001 at 02:06 AM]
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I think its amusing. They can\'t decide if it should have DVD playback or not.
Of course, issues of EGM are printed ahead of time. And the desicion could of came after the issue had already gone to press. But, I truly doubt that.
Now Xbox fans will have to pay for a remote, so they can just use their friggin\' DVD player. Okay, why could MS not just let you use the controller? Because, then they couldn\'t milk you for more money..
I\'m sure someone will come up with some big excuse on MS making it where it requires a special remote. But the fact is, there is no logical reason, other then they want more money.
So, you have to pay to use a feature built in the system..Gee! That is extremely nice of them...Looks like you will be paying for that DVD playback after all, eh?
I have decided already, I won\'t buy the remote. I have no need for it.
So, there went that "blessing" MS gave everyone, didn\'t it? You know, the whole it was smart of MS not giving you a "3rd rate DVD playback"?
So, now instead of paying for a cartidge add-on for DVD playback. You get to pay for the DVD remote, cause it won\'t function without it.
Damn..Thats some pretty smooth buisness tactics.:D
[Edited by Living-In-Clip on 01-03-2001 at 02:08 AM]
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Originally posted by §ôµÏG®ïñD
News just in... Xbox will have INBUILT DVD. There isn\'t any need for a chip. BUT HAHAH get this.. You STILL have too buy a REMOTE.. RIPP OFF ANYONE.. Microsoft what are you DOING.
http://www.msxbox.com/php/full_post.php3?id=468
Gamers are not paying extra for DVD movie player parts because if this report is correct, then MPEG decompression is probably one of many functions handled by nVidia\'s media processor within the XBox (i.e it is ALSO a decoder!). Hence the cost of the XBox would be the same with or without DVD playback!
Therefore the whole arguement has NOTHING to do with the XBox hardware, but with whether or not gamers should be forced to purchase a remote control unit if then want to watch DVD movies.
Personally, I don\'t see any problem with this, since I\'m sure most PS2 gamers who want to regularly watch DVD movies have (or plan to) buy a remote unit for their console.
Therefore having to purchase of a cheap remote control to watch DVD\'s on the XBox is not a rip off (especially since we do not know the costs of either the XBox or the remote control!).
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I regularly watch DVD movies on my PS2 and I have two comments:
1) The PS2 playback is excellent IMO. I haven\'t had any problems with it whatsoever.
2) I don\'t want to purchase a remote for DVD playback. I\'m too cheap.
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I won\'t really interfere with the discussion between Yassam and SG but I\'ll say few things out.
I watched this movie called pirates of silicon valley. It tells the story of young Bill Gates; tells the story of Microsoft. The movie maybe consentrates even more on Steve Jobs and Apple, but just because Microsoft sneaked inside apple very silently.
The thing is that Bill Gates and co. started out of nothing. They had NOTHING. I\'m not kissing Bill\'s arse here but I gotta agree that the man is pure business genious. Did you know that he bought Dos from unknown programmer for just 50 000 dollars? Without that deal he wouldn\'t be the richest man in the world. He stole, sneaked, stole more; worked secretly and eventually backstabbed Apple.
"Good Artist copies. Great Artist Steals" -Picasso ( i think )
The whole point of this is that Bill Gates knows every possible tactic in business. Microsoft rose from nothing. Now it\'s time for X-box. Really; I\'m betting that it will be the biggest competitor for Sony definetely.
Microsoft knows when to release the console. Microsoft knows how to cash people. You must beware their money-traps.
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X-BOX WILL BE GREAT WITH OUT DVD PLAYBACK TRUST ME.
IT WILL BE CHEAPER THAN PS2
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this will only make the war bigger. microsoft has decided to be smart and make money off of people who want dvd, while still making money off of the games.
the bad thing about the launch in japan, was that the games didnt sell for the ps2, the dvd did.
so microsoft has been smart, making money off of all of the people who will buy the system for dvd, sony did not.
this may harm their stance as a system, but it wont be a big one at all. i think that if the price of their system is $399 or $499 they will have trouble selling their system.
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oh yes this does not mean by any means that x box will be cheaper than ps2, its not like they are installing new hardware into the system. its all there.
i bet the system retails for $399, and that will hurt its chances greatly.
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If on some small chance the console did launch at the $400-$500 dollar price tag, the XBox would be dead soon as it hit the market. It wouldn\'t start selling units, until after a massive price drop and then it would be to late for MS.
MS knows this. Which is in my opinion, why they are going to charge for extra stuff. Like the remote. They can get some more money, without saying its the hardware price. People don\'t mind this (most don\'t). They\'ll figure its a "must have" (which it is, if you want DVD playback on the thing). And they\'ll pay for it.
I figure the console will launch at a $300 price tag, just as the PS2. That is the magic price right now. You can charge that and people won\'t *****. Go over that and people get upset.
The whole point, that I was making is. MS fans shouldn\'t have to pay for a function built in the system. They should have the option to use the standard controller to use the DVD functions.
Its typical MS.
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I THINK IT WILL DO JUST AS GOOD AS THE PS2
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quote:
This DVD thing is another WAY MS want too RIP PEOPLE OFF.. They HAVE the HARDWARE ALREADY THERE. There just gonna make it so you have too buy a CD too use it.. This sucks.
Way too go MS.. Rip off your fans and the gamers.
What will be funny. This may SHOT them in the foot. I see people bootlegging the cd..
I don\'t agree with you on this, if this is seen as a rip off then I believe Sony not including four controller ports for the PS2 is also a rip. Heck all next generation videogame systems have 4 controller ports except the PS2. WHY??? Because Sony wants you to buy the controller port addon. This to me is a rip-off
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It was mentioned earlier that the X Box comes with built-in DVD capability and to activate it you\'ll need to buy a remote control. Is the price of the X Box already including the DVD capability expenses or they left it out assuming people would buy the remote to cover the price? Well, what if most of them decide not to buy the remote? (Well, can\'t blame that, heard somewhere that Sony\'s already losing $180 for every PS2 sold to meet price target hoping lost expenses will be covered from game licensing).
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I\'m pretty sure xbox won\'t make it.Don\'t ask me why.