PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Nplayer-2 on March 14, 2001, 08:39:21 AM
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This is a question i have asked ever since i saw the sleek black light(lol)......when MGS2 was show and destroyed everything in it\'s path people still bashed the PS2..."it\'s CG" "it\'s coming to my console" "it don\'t cook my breakfast"...etc...etc
Then came word that mighty microsoft would bring a GODLY console with the power to draw 300mpps....reach speeds of 1 teraflop...cure cancer and end world hunger......yet over the months the specs kept going down...and still do.
This was the console many hard-core sega zealots used to get revenge...(you know who you are)...others hated the console yet as long as it higher specs than PS2...they would like it.
just think for a moment what PS2 did:
1)Bring CG like graphics to home consoles earlier than thought possible(RRV is almost CG quality...TTT is almost CG quality...)
2)bring out a revolutionary hardware design so new it would take years and years to harness it\'s power...
3)give developers the choice of doing what THEY wanted how THEY wanted it to be done(lowering the quality or ammount of mip-mapping and getting more power for AI or physics, is an example)
4)being the first BB console ever(sony did not make it BB after xbox..don\'t fool your self)
5)first console with the capability to use a HDD(again they had this in mind since PS2 developing started)
6)it\'s VERY early second gen games look far better than the godly xbox\'s offerings show so far....
7)look at 6..that coming from a piece of hardware, harder to use than the saturn...nuff said.
8)coming to gamers first with all this great stuff and more too come
when all is said and done...SONY is pretty much the winner this gen hardware-sales wise(unless nintendo pulls some kind of trick with the GBA;))....xbox is pretty much DOA in japan(latest konami interview slams xbox)
so...why do people hate PS2?
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I kinda didn\'t expect a post like this from a member with a troll-pic... I don\'t even know why you have that pic, but anyways...
You\'re over-reacting here, as saying "People hate Ps2" is wrong. Many ppl love ps2, but there, of course ( like always ) are biased fanboys who hate Sony and Playstation 2. Blah blah...
These discussions have been discussed SO many times ;)
I\'ve also noticed your very positive attitude towards PS2 and games of the console. I wonder, have you changed or why you still have that troll-pic? Have you always been like that? Why your name is N-player while you say PS2 almost beats GC in graphics? Sorry for these questions. You don\'t have to answer, but your words just don\'t suit your name :)
And asking why ppl hate PS2 in THIS forum is kinda worthless. Not many here HATE ps2. Some may dislike it, or like some console more, but HATE is maybe too strong word.
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I agree with the biggest part of your post.
PS2 is attacked madly by many ex-Saturn owners(refering to Sega fanatics),many Nintendo console owners(people that can not accept the fact Nintendo arent Gaming gods),many XBOX fans(1)PC owners that beleive PC\'s are better than consoles,2)Sega fans that go with the XBOX as their chance to revenge Sony,3)people that know little about gaming but fall to the name of MS etc)
Ofcourse there are many Sega,Nintando and XBOX fans that are honets and true gamers.
1)Bring CG like graphics to home consoles earlier than thought possible(RRV is almost CG quality...TTT is almost CG quality...)
unfortunately good PS2 games where few and developers that rushed their games were many.Dont forget PS2 was also attacked for the jaggies issue.
3)give developers the choice of doing what THEY wanted how THEY wanted it to be done(lowering the quality or ammount of mip-mapping and getting more power for AI or physics, is an example)
Yes that true generally.But in order to offer movie quality games graphics AI and physics are all needed at the same time.
We are still optimistic though with the results MGS2 has already in PS2\'s early lifespan.We still have 4-5 years ahead.
4)being the first BB console ever(sony did not make it BB after xbox..don\'t fool your self)
5)first console with the capability to use a HDD(again they had this in mind since PS2 developing started)
Yeap thats Sony\'s idea.They were the first to announce BB and HD compatibility for their console.Sony haters made it look as if Sony stole the idea from MS though.But thats not true.
6)it\'s VERY early second gen games look far better than the godly xbox\'s offerings show so far....
PS2 has many graet looking games but we dont know how would the XBOX games look later.
7)look at 6..that coming from a piece of hardware, harder to use than the saturn...nuff said.
It will be a lot easier when developers learn how it works.
The programming difficulty is like a double-edged sword actually.Atleast for now.
8)coming to gamers first with all this great stuff and more too come
Yeap.Still 4-5 years to come.
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Nplayer-2 I think thats the best post you ve ever made. :)
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darth:
yeah i hated PS2...until i saw games that were too damn good to pass up...like GT3 and MGS2..
the PS2 "might" be able to texture better than GC...but that will require LOTS of time and money....SSX and TTT textures are NOTHING...wait until early 2002;)
GC and PS2 will be giving us some great graphics this gen..that\'s all that matters.
I saw why PS2 is and will be a great console, but i cannot understand why it is hated by almost every damn person on the net...what did it do? run over their dog?....
it\'s amazing the hatred this console has gotten....it gave us so many things so early for a nice price...why the hate?
PS: MM take this pic off already;)
Thanks unicorn:)
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I hate...
- Gas Prices
- Bill Clinton
- You
Why do people say stuff like this? Why do you hate companies who provide entertainment to us? You=make no sense.
Yeah I hate Sony, those damn bastards just keep making games AND THEY WON\'T STOP!!
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People hate the PS2 because Sony is a multinational moneymaking company. (LOL)
They dont make any good games (LOL)
They love Nintendo or Sega or their PC.
I dont hate any company but I like the PS2 very much.
I think that the person that hates sony so much is younger people that is in love with Nintendo.
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The thing is that if you go a multi-platform site guess who is public enemy 1?...yup PS2.
I\'m just tired of going to a multi-platform, saying i like this or that PS2 game...and getting bashed for it...just because it\'s a PS2 game.
it\'s getting to a point where people seem to have some kind of mind control which commands them to bash PS2..
it makes no sense.
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Originally posted by Nplayer-2
4)being the first BB console ever(sony did not make it BB after xbox..don\'t fool your self)
Uhhhh.......what??? Hmmmm, must be true wireless broadband. No wires, no cables, no BB adapter. I sure don\'t see any BB.
Guess you were so mesmerized by Sony\'s future plans that you were oblivious to the fact that the other little white box has BB, already.
While you\'re pointing out all the positives of PS2, why do you fail to mention the negatives? Or the positives of the other consoles the PS2 lack?
VRAM - DC: 8MB vs PS2 4MB
Controller Ports - PS2: 2 vs All Others: 4
Online - DC: 56K Modem Included vs PS2: Buy Add-On
First Party - Sega/Nintendo vs Sony
Gamecube\'s Mini DVD
X-Box\'s huge list of 3rd Party support
PS2\'s difficulty to program for
The point is the PS2 is not God\'s gift to gaming so don\'t make it out to be some omnipotent be-all-end-all machine. It\'s definitely impressive but don\'t judge it\'s future competition without hands-on experience.
As for the PS2-haters, they\'ll probably never change. Just think of it as their loss.
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None of what you said in your original post matters as long as Sony keeps allowing crap games on its system.
They are just not any fun (for the most part)
They may look good but thats about it.
Maybe the reason everyone "hates" the system is because we feel we have been ripped off by a company that RUSHED it\'s system out before it were ready, and before the games were ready.
G.
Willy hears ya.......Willy don\'t care.........
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Originally posted by Ashford
X-Box\'s huge list of 3rd Party support
PS2\'s difficulty to program for
1. PS2s list is BIGGER!!
2. So? Give them TIME! You dont make games.. So whats the freaking problem??
PS2 hard to program for.
Xbox easy to program for.
Hmm.. How come Ps2 games look waaay better??
huh? huh? I dident hear you??
Dont gimme that "not final hardware" BS!
/FAST - IM GOING CRAZY!!
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THIS GUY IS GETTING ME VERY MAD!!!
HEY, CONE HEAD WHAT\'S YOUR PROBLEM!
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Me??
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Originally posted by Ashford
Uhhhh.......what??? Hmmmm, must be true wireless broadband. No wires, no cables, no BB adapter. I sure don\'t see any BB.
Guess you were so mesmerized by Sony\'s future plans that you were oblivious to the fact that the other little white box has BB, already.
While you\'re pointing out all the positives of PS2, why do you fail to mention the negatives? Or the positives of the other consoles the PS2 lack?
VRAM - DC: 8MB vs PS2 4MB
Controller Ports - PS2: 2 vs All Others: 4
Online - DC: 56K Modem Included vs PS2: Buy Add-On
First Party - Sega/Nintendo vs Sony
Gamecube\'s Mini DVD
X-Box\'s huge list of 3rd Party support
PS2\'s difficulty to program for
The point is the PS2 is not God\'s gift to gaming so don\'t make it out to be some omnipotent be-all-end-all machine. It\'s definitely impressive but don\'t judge it\'s future competition without hands-on experience.
As for the PS2-haters, they\'ll probably never change. Just think of it as their loss.
From the number of your posts I understand you new here.
1)Dont forget the PS2 has 4MB of STREAMING VRAM.I guess you didnt know that.Check some Getaway pic.You ll be amazed.
2)PS2 has 2 controller ports because thats what it needs.Most games are 2 player,you cant always have 3 friends with you(you also need 3 extra controllers:P),PS2\'s main multi player target is online and you ve got the chance to add 2 multitabs for 8 player goodness(7 more controllers is expensive though:)).
3)First Party - Sega/Nintendo vs Sony
ehm ahm.....DC is dead.SEGA got multiplatform now and Sony has Polyphony Digital and some 2nd Party developers like Namco and Square.
First party developers werent any problem for Sony when it had PSX.So why should Nintendo be a problem for Sony now?
4)Gamecube\'s Mini DVD
Ahm....could you explain more about it?
5)X-Box\'s huge list of 3rd Party support
If XBOX has a huge 3rd party support then PS2 has a AN ENORMOUS GICANTIC HUGE ASTRONOMIC NUMBER of 3rd party developer support.
XBOX\'s games are mainly PC ports and minimal PS2 ports.
6)The point is the PS2 is not God\'s gift to gaming so don\'t make it out to be some omnipotent be-all-end-all machine. It\'s definitely impressive but don\'t judge it\'s future competition without hands-on experience.
We arent acting as if PS2 is God\'s gift to gaming .Most XBOX fans do about XBOX.You are new in the forums I can guess and you cant see how open minded most of us are about all consoles.
Judging from your post you need some experience too my friend:)
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Originally posted by fastson
Me??
NO not you, Nplayer-2!
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:alien: Ps2 is a nice piece of hardware for games. I love mines and I dont hate it in anyway...other then the fact that ....nah i got nothing i love the ps2 :eek:
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N-Player, you are an idiot.
1) does the TTT intro look anything CLOSE to looking like the game? Hell no, the intro looks near real life, the game, not nearly as good.
2) A revolutionary design? hahaha so it was meant to make developers make really sucky games in the beginning, so years down the road, if they have any money left, they can produce one or two good games. A revolutionary design would be one that would let you take full advantage of the power without sacrificing any of the resources. AA for PS2 = sacrificing polys.
3) How about having a design that let\'s developers not sacrifice anything?
4) whats this thingy on my DC? oh yeah, its a bb!
5) yay.
6) X-Box pictures = not on finished hardware. PS2 equals second gen. hmmm if they only look a tad better, that is not too good.
7) yay.
8) yeah, you know I loved Rayman 2, Doa2, MDK2, etc the FIRST time I played them! Also, you know I love fireworks sims et al.
X-Box is dead before it launches? That\'s nice, by Konami nonetheless, after all, they are the BEST developer :rollseyes:
Yes, PS2 will probably beat X-Box with a nice margin in Japan, but I don\'t recall living in Japan. The support is there, many japanese developers have signed on, and some of the best American devs too.
take a deep breath. You are a fanboy. You are scared of what X-Box might bring. You used to hate Sony (I remember your gay crap), you may change again.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by Darth Joyda
I kinda didn\'t expect a post like this from a member with a troll-pic... I don\'t even know why you have that pic, but anyways...
You\'re over-reacting here, as saying "People hate Ps2" is wrong. Many ppl love ps2, but there, of course ( like always ) are biased fanboys who hate Sony and Playstation 2. Blah blah...
These discussions have been discussed SO many times ;)
I\'ve also noticed your very positive attitude towards PS2 and games of the console. I wonder, have you changed or why you still have that troll-pic? Have you always been like that? Why your name is N-player while you say PS2 almost beats GC in graphics? Sorry for these questions. You don\'t have to answer, but your words just don\'t suit your name :)
And asking why ppl hate PS2 in THIS forum is kinda worthless. Not many here HATE ps2. Some may dislike it, or like some console more, but HATE is maybe too strong word.
I was thinking the same thing, although this thread is a bit controversial, he doesn\'t flame or bash anything for that matter, and I can\'t remember him being all that trolly, maybe I\'m confusing him with someone else or something, but if not, I\'d say remove the troll pic!!!
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
N-Player, you are an idiot.
1) does the TTT intro look anything CLOSE to looking like the game? Hell no, the intro looks near real life, the game, not nearly as good.
2) A revolutionary design? hahaha so it was meant to make developers make really sucky games in the beginning, so years down the road, if they have any money left, they can produce one or two good games. A revolutionary design would be one that would let you take full advantage of the power without sacrificing any of the resources. AA for PS2 = sacrificing polys.
3) How about having a design that let\'s developers not sacrifice anything?
4) whats this thingy on my DC? oh yeah, its a bb!
5) yay.
6) X-Box pictures = not on finished hardware. PS2 equals second gen. hmmm if they only look a tad better, that is not too good.
7) yay.
8) yeah, you know I loved Rayman 2, Doa2, MDK2, etc the FIRST time I played them! Also, you know I love fireworks sims et al.
X-Box is dead before it launches? That\'s nice, by Konami nonetheless, after all, they are the BEST developer :rollseyes:
Yes, PS2 will probably beat X-Box with a nice margin in Japan, but I don\'t recall living in Japan. The support is there, many japanese developers have signed on, and some of the best American devs too.
take a deep breath. You are a fanboy. You are scared of what X-Box might bring. You used to hate Sony (I remember your gay crap), you may change again.
Eric Jacob
1)And TTT \'s CGI looks better than TEKKEN1\'s CGI,FFMOVIE looks better than FF9\'s CGI etc.The game doesnt much the into\'s quality but the ingame graphics look near CGI quality.So there is no point in you disagreement.
2)It\'s new design.Do you expect someone to be able to use something which he has never seen in his life?
If a homo sapien sees a car(which would be new to him) he wouldnt know how to use it so not taking advandage its offerings.Unless he\'s got the brains:).
Ok this example is unrealistic but it gives the meaning of the arguement.
Dont expect people to understand from day one how to use something new.
Unlike the PS2 the XBOX(which you support) because of it ease to produce great graphics(supposely) thats what you are going to be seing.Nothing else.Its graphics you seem to support here not games.
Kojima said GC and XBOX will not offer anything new in games besides graphics.
3)Dont make dreams.We have what we need.Not what we dont need.I suppose you mean XBOX is perfect.
4)bb what?
5)well its true Sony had the idea from the first place.
6)We dont give a sh!t about your XBOX.Not final hardware blah blah blah.....I even wonder if the released XBOX will be full hardware.
8)U sound like an XBOX fanatic not like a PS2 owner.
Weak people become followers to the once that seem the strongest.Not the once that might be fair or right.
Weakness does not permit people to have the risk of challenging more powerfull looking opponents.
They have the need to feel secure and the only way to feel this way is to become a follower to the strongest .COWARDNESS.
Are you one of those people Altered?Perhaps you are the one who is afraid?
Dont mess with psychologists.
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Ummmm, excuse me??? Don\'t you judge me by my number of posts. WTF does that prove? I started gaming X # of posts ago??? Or that I don\'t hang around the forums for 16 hours a day, adding a post every 45 seconds??? Gimme a break.
4MB, 8MB, 32MB, who cares? This thread didn\'t start with me proclaiming DC is superior because of more VRAM. This is tell people not to tout the PS2\'s superior specs while ignoring negative ones.
Hmmm, 2 extra controller ports at no extra charge or buying a multi-tap??? Sounds like a clear cut winner to me. Are they giving away free controllers with every multi-tap???
Hoo boy, who needs experience now? DC dead? What have I been playing the past couple of weeks? What is this I keep hearing about new releases through next year? What am I, an electronic necrophiliac?
Namco and Square 2nd party??? That\'s news to me.
The point of mentioning Sega and Nintendo is to prove that either of these companies\' consoles could survive on 1st party support alone. A big advantage for them, whereas Sony would be in big trouble.
As for GC Mini DVD, I haven\'t been keeping up with it but last I heard, it was a great way to combat piracy and fix storage problems.
I\'m not debating who has more 3rd party support. Get it through your heads, please. I\'m merely mentioning how MS has a huge list of support so that is a positive for them.; not a negative for Sony.
Did I direct my post to you??? Did I claim you were touting the PS2 as God\'s gift to gaming? This was directed at the originator, who seems to think there is no competition.
All my points were to show the competition has positives, as well as advantages. Sony doesn\'t own the edge in every category.
My post was not biased in any way or anti-Sony. So let\'s not start any ridiculous flame wars.
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N-Player, I don\'t understand you.
You worship Nintendo, and then you turn around and start worshipping Sony. Do you switch roles just to fit in? Are you like this in real life?
It\'s like you are dying for attention or something.
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He he, well said ElAsesino
I\'ve asked myself that question for a long time myself
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I gotta ask one question. Why is your topic (Nplayer) totaly refering to Nintendo? What makes Nintendo so special now then it was then? Forget SNES and NES, I\'m talking about N64 and now. All Nintendo has done is sit back, watch and copy. GameCube looks like a carbon copy of Sega/Sony/MS all in 1 and stuffed in some cheese. I don\'t find anything unique about Nintendo\'s new console other than
a) its shape is like a lunchbox pre-schoolers use
b) will bring its titles like mario, metroid to new levels
c) still port over whatever crap N64 had most likely.
Just my honest opinion and observation from the news I\'ve been hearing.
jm
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Originally posted by ElAsesino
N-Player, I don\'t understand you.
You worship Nintendo, and then you turn around and start worshipping Sony. Do you switch roles just to fit in? Are you like this in real life?
It\'s like you are dying for attention or something.
I would have to agree, which is why he gets the troll picture.
But seriously, you sit and trash the Xbox for the same thing the PS2 got trashed for. First generation games looking less then impressive and until this month, the PS2 had brought nothing to the table to show it was much more powerful then the DC.
In my humble opinion, some people trash whatever is fashionable at the moment. Don\'t like MS? So trash the system, even though you haven\'t played it. See a picture, it has jaggies? Trash it, even though Ridge Racer V was jaggies hell also.
As for this massive 3rd party support. That is great, if all those developers put excellent games out or even half of them, but they won\'t. It happened with the PSone. A bunch of ****ty developers put out really medicore or even horrible games, because Sony has zero quality control.
I think its stupid, that someone needs a system to trash at all times. Just play the system you like and leave everyone else the hell alone. How simple can that be? If you don\'t like the Xbox, thats fine, but I\'m sure plenty of people will like it once it is released.
And for the HD note, MS was way smarter about it. They are including it in the package, so developers will support it without any hassle. Sony is going the "32x" way, where developers have to guess how many people bought it and if it is worth developing for. I\'m not saying the HD will fail (though, I do have my doubts about it), I\'m just saying while MS may of ripped off the idea of a HD (and maybe they didn\'t) they still did a better job implementing it.
Oh and you make fun of people being "Xbox fanboys" because they haven\'t played it, well there is no difference in trashing it without every being able to play it.
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Why do people hate the New York Yankees
Why do people hate the Dall-ass Cowboys
Lots of people choose to side with the underdogs
The masses love to see Goliath fall
The same goes with MS and XBox, even though they aren\'t top dog in the console business, they are still hated by many including Mr. Nplayer here
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That\'s nice, by Konami nonetheless, after all, they are the BEST developer :rolleyes:
How DARE you insult Konami!!!!!!
Konami is GOD!!!!!!!!!
Gamecube\'s Mini DVD
Besides that fact that it helps to prevent piracy, this is not a plus for Big N.
Mini DVDs(from what I know) can hold alot less than regular DVDs=Not as detailed\\long games.
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Originally posted by Solid Snake 88
How DARE you insult Konami!!!!!!
Konami is GOD!!!!!!!!!
Besides that fact that it helps to prevent piracy, this is not a plus for Big N.
Mini DVDs(from what I know) can hold alot less than regular DVDs=Not as detailed\\long games.
1: Correction, Capcom is the GOD of developers. ;)
2: The mini-disc isn\'t that big of a problem. With the texture compression ratio 10:1 (I believe), that will save ALOT of space and if more space is needed you can always use another disc. Not a big deal really.
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Yeah I guess. I kinda overreacted.
P.S. Capcom, Squaresoft, Konami, Sierra, and Blizzard are the GODS of game development. :D
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Originally posted by jm
I gotta ask one question. Why is your topic (Nplayer) totaly refering to Nintendo? What makes Nintendo so special now then it was then? Forget SNES and NES, I\'m talking about N64 and now. All Nintendo has done is sit back, watch and copy. GameCube looks like a carbon copy of Sega/Sony/MS all in 1 and stuffed in some cheese. I don\'t find anything unique about Nintendo\'s new console other than
a) its shape is like a lunchbox pre-schoolers use
b) will bring its titles like mario, metroid to new levels
c) still port over whatever crap N64 had most likely.
I have got to say that you are one of the BIGGEST and MOST biased fanboys I have ever seen. At least other Nintendo haters bash Nintedno for a legitimate reason. You accuse Nplayer of having a Nintendo slant in his Topic.....WTF?!?! I\'m through, you just amaze me.
Originally posted by Unicron!
Weak people become followers to the once that seem the strongest.Not the once that might be fair or right.
Weakness does not permit people to have the risk of challenging more powerfull looking opponents.
They have the need to feel secure and the only way to feel this way is to become a follower to the strongest .COWARDNESS.
Are you one of those people Altered?Perhaps you are the one who is afraid?
Dont mess with psychologists.
ROFLMAO :laughing:
That was some real slick psychological talk there. Your Freudian insights amaze us all. :rolleyes:
That makes no sense. If that was true wouldn\'t he defend the PS2 because more people support it meaning it has a stronger user base. Everyone is trading in their Xbox before they even buy it. He is defending it so wouldn\'t that seem fair and right? Don\'t try to act like the PS2 is some morally right choice over the other consoles and that the only fair and right thing to do is support it; because that is basically what you are saying.
Don\'t mess with logical people.
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Ummmm, excuse me??? Don\'t you judge me by my number of posts. WTF does that prove? I started gaming X # of posts ago??? Or that I don\'t hang around the forums for 16 hours a day, adding a post every 45 seconds??? Gimme a break.
You have prooved me right that you dont visit the forums often.if you rarely visit the forums then how would you know as much as other members?
So you are like a newbie.I am not mistakenly judjing you by your posts.
You wouldnt have posted some of the things you posted if you were a more regular visitor.
You gain more "experience" by visiting the forums often.
I dont post every 45 secs either.I registered in the summer and I ve got less posts than others that registered later.
4MB, 8MB, 32MB, who cares? This thread didn\'t start with me proclaiming DC is superior because of more VRAM. This is tell people not to tout the PS2\'s superior specs while ignoring negative ones
PS2\'s VRAM is streaming.So its not a major disadvandage.
And the thread was refering to why some people hate PS2 while it has so many to offer.There is no perfect console antways.Its not because of the VRAM they hate PS2,is it?
Hmmm, 2 extra controller ports at no extra charge or buying a multi-tap??? Sounds like a clear cut winner to me. Are they giving away free controllers with every multi-tap???
4 controllers arent neccessary.2 controlers are enough for most gamers.Read my post again.Why increase the cost production by puting 4 controller ports?
Will Nintendo and XBOX offer free controllers with their consoles?It is a disadvandage but again not big to refer it.
Hoo boy, who needs experience now? DC dead? What have I been playing the past couple of weeks? What is this I keep hearing about new releases through next year? What am I, an electronic necrophiliac?
Namco and Square 2nd party??? That\'s news to me.
The point of mentioning Sega and Nintendo is to prove that either of these companies\' consoles could survive on 1st party support alone. A big advantage for them, whereas Sony would be in big trouble.
Ok It was my mistake to call DC a dead console.I know that Sega is making games fro the DC still.Crazy Taxi2,House of the Dead3,Shenmue2 etc.Around 100 games in development I ve read.But my point is Sega have gone multiplatform.No longer a 1st party.
As for Nintendo,Nintendo wasnt a problem for PSX1 either. So why for PS2?
As long as Namco and Squaresoft work exclusively for PS2 can be characterized as 2nd Party.This could change though.But if PS2 has exclusive games from them even if they support other consoles PS2 will remain strong.
Dont forget that Sony has Psygnosis too.
As for GC Mini DVD, I haven\'t been keeping up with it but last I heard, it was a great way to combat piracy and fix storage problems.
It offers nothing new.Its mostly for piracy prodection.
Normal DVD\'s can hold more.
I\'m not debating who has more 3rd party support. Get it through your heads, please. I\'m merely mentioning how MS has a huge list of support so that is a positive for them.; not a negative for Sony.
What \'s your point then?It has nothing to do with the thread.Why did you refer XBOX?
Did I direct my post to you??? Did I claim you were touting the PS2 as God\'s gift to gaming? This was directed at the originator, who seems to think there is no competition.
OOPS:).That was a misunderstanding.Sorry.You cant distinguish if "you" is plural(refering to all PS2 fans) or singular(refering to N-player2).
All my points were to show the competition has positives, as well as advantages. Sony doesn\'t own the edge in every category.
Totally agree but it has nothing to do with this thread.
My post was not biased in any way or anti-Sony. So let\'s not start any ridiculous flame wars
I wasnt talking through anger.It is a civilised conversation.I wasnt trying to start a flame war or something.You post arent Biased or anti-Sony.I gree
That was some real slick psychological talk there. Your Freudian insights amaze us all.
That makes no sense. If that was true wouldn\'t he defend the PS2 because more people support it meaning it has a stronger user base. Everyone is trading in their Xbox before they even buy it. He is defending it so wouldn\'t that seem fair and right? Don\'t try to act like the PS2 is some morally right choice over the other consoles and that the only fair and right thing to do is support it; because that is basically what you are saying.
Gohan:
Nope he wouldnt defend PS2 because of its userbase.He wouldnt have sounded the way he sounds if it was that the case.He beleives XBOX will kick PS2\'s ass.Why give attention to the userbase PS2 has if you are sure XBOX will kick PS2\'s ass anyways?
Everyone is trading in their Xbox before they even buy it
Thats something you give attention to.Not Altered.Has Altered talked about XBOX\'s negatives?Never.He only talks about how flawed PS2 is and how XBOX is better.
If your defending something you are trying to concvince people how good it is not how much better it is.
I dont call attacking a defending.
By Gohan
Don\'t try to act like the PS2 is some morally right choice over the other consoles and that the only fair and right thing to do is support it; because that is basically what you are saying.
By Me
Weak people become followers to the once that seem the strongest.Not the once that might be fair or right.
I wasnt refering to PS2 with right and fair. When you talk about psychology you dont talk about a specific subject(like PS2 or XBOX) but about peoples\' psychological reactions in cases.
I ment how far people could reach in order to feel more secure in some cases.
I was talking about a general psychological phenomenon.
I never support a console by trying to cpnvince others which console is wrong and which is right.
So if you find similar posts try to think what I was trying to mean as a general.
Dont mess with logical people
Now that I have prooved my post was logical read my signature too.
P.S:Not all things can be explained with logic.There is not a single completely logical person either.Everyone has a dose of illogic.:)
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Nintendo will be a problem for Sony this time.
The 64 had so much going against it, and PSX had so much going for it.
The 64 had cartridge as it\'s medium. Big mistake, they are expensive to make and can\'t compare to a CD. ANd it was hard to program for. THis turned off alot of third party developers. The 64\'s main downfall. But it still managed to sell 30 million consoles and multiple million sellers.
GC has fixed everything. The minidisc cost next to nothing to make, they hold alot of info, and the GC is easy to develope for.
This round is on a much more even field. Everyone has the same artillery, it just depends how they use it...
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I like it when someone explains like Ginko.:)
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Are you being sarcastic?
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Though Nplayer is pretty harsh on the xbox gamestock event, i got to agree with him on the later part of the ps2 life.Games are looking ever flawless and nice...Dropship, GT3,AC4 and probably Wipeout Fusion proof this but you guys had to see Dropship..the environment is just too big .
Jaggie issue is a thing of the past as demonstrated by games like EA Rumble Racing where it has clean graphics such as ATV but move at speed more than 60 FPS.
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To Unicron!:
That shows you assume too much. I visit this forum regularly. I just don\'t POST regularly. Also, psx2central.com is not the only website around for info. For your information, I visit numerous other websites so you are the one who needs more "experience".
Before we get into this, let me just make something clear. I did not bash PS2. I did not stick the competition in PS2\'s face. This thread started with all the wonders of PS2, while ignoring all the negatives, and the positives and advantages of the competitors. The competition was bashed while the PS2 has its own flaws. Don\'t praise your console while pointing out all the problems of the competitors. Take a closer look at home, first.
The positives or advantages I listed were not to kick sand in PS2\'s face. It goes to show the competition has a couple of tricks up its sleeve, too.
About the VRAM, I could care less about that. I don\'t hate the PS2 for this issue. I don\'t hate PS2, period. I have a dislike for it simply because of the unimpressive games. That will all change in the future.
Was the DC too expensive because of 2 extra controller ports?
You misundertand. If it was a war of 1st party software alone, Sony would go down first. Sega and Nintendo are the top 2 1st party companies. Sony as a first party couldn\'t compete. Which is why 3rd parties are so important to them.
Combatting piracy is certainly important. There\'s nothing wrong with putting games out on multiple disks.
Once again, because MS has major support, XBOX is certainly a viable contender.
Of course this has something to do with this thread. The guy seems to think the PS2 is perfect. Technology doesn\'t seem to evolve past Sony.
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Also, yes, Sega is going multiplatform but so far, they\'re all ports of old games. As long as the DC is still alive, Sega will still be a 1st party.
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N-Player, you are an idiot
nah..
1) does the TTT intro look anything CLOSE to looking like the game? Hell no, the intro looks near real life, the game, not nearly as good.
When did i say TTT looks like real-life?..never, i said it looks almost like CG(which it does)...and that is pretty impressive for it\'s time.....
2) A revolutionary design? hahaha so it was meant to make developers make really sucky games in the beginning, so years down the road, if they have any money left, they can produce one or two good games. A revolutionary design would be one that would let you take full advantage of the power without sacrificing any of the resources. AA for PS2 = sacrificing polys
TTT=CG like graphics
RRV=CG like graphics
both games are pretty fun to play...
You should go and see what it cost to use pixel shaders and vertex shaders on the xbox.....almost more than HALF of it\' s polygons are gone...don\'t be a hypocrite.
I gave you an example of how revolutionary the PS2 was and is....developers can either lower the quality or the ammount of mip-mapping and with the power they saved they can use for polygons,AI,physics..etc..etc
xbox nor gamecube can do this.
also....please go look back when DX first came out...it sure was easy too use i tell you:rolleyes:
3) How about having a design that let\'s developers not sacrifice anything
like i said...if xbox developers want to use all those fancy effects they better get ready to loose half of their polygons.
and PLEASE show a piece of hardware in which EVERYTHING is FREE?...(like FSAA for example)
come on find me that magical hardware.
whats this thingy on my DC? oh yeah, its a bb!
My point was sony had it BEFORE microsoft did...
and how many dead-cast games use it?....all i know of is quake3...lol
6) X-Box pictures = not on finished hardware. PS2 equals second gen. hmmm if they only look a tad better, that is not too good.
world-wide sales fall 2001:
PS2:10-15million
xbox:0
case closed.
it does not matter what you will have tomorrow but you do have Today....either way all those pics look like crap, and HALO was the disappointment of the show...
i remember when sega fans said:
"if PS2 is this great console why do their games not look better than DC?"
HYPOCRITE.
Unicorn pretty much said everything i could think of already too other people..:)
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WRONG!!!
What you said was PS2 is the first BroadBand console.
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Originally posted by Unicron!
Gohan:
Nope he wouldnt defend PS2 because of its userbase.He wouldnt have sounded the way he sounds if it was that the case.He beleives XBOX will kick PS2\'s ass.Why give attention to the userbase PS2 has if you are sure XBOX will kick PS2\'s ass anyways?
I am going to stop arguing this because it is not my fight; but he did not once mention anything about the Xbox kicking the PS2\'s ass. You are assuming too much.
Originally posted by Unicron!
Thats something you give attention to.Not Altered.Has Altered talked about XBOX\'s negatives?Never.He only talks about how flawed PS2 is and how XBOX is better.
If your defending something you are trying to concvince people how good it is not how much better it is.
A good 98% of the people that post here have said that the Xbox is crap and that they are not planning on getting one anymore. Not ONE of those people has EVER touched an Xbox. That kind of seems like everyone is trading it in before they buy it. I don\'t know what Altered\'s motivation was but I would give the Xbox\'s positives because Nplayer gave nothing but Negatives. You can not give a one sided argument and expect someone to not call you on it. That is just the way it is.
Originally posted by Unicron!
I dont call attacking a defending.
Read above
Originally posted by Unicron!
Now that I have prooved my post was logical read my signature too.
"Logic does not exist.We call logic everyday phenomenons and things we can explain.What if things we call paranormal,illogical were more common?Wouldnt those be what we call logic?"
I hope you did not come up with that yourself. That is a pretty lame statement and does not provoke any thought, which I believe(and hope) it was intended to do.
BTW, Please tell me that you are not a real Psychologist. Cuz methinks that you are what the 1337 community calls a "poser"
Until next time
Holla
:thepimp:
-Beantown Slim
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I am going to stop arguing this because it is not my fight; but he did not once mention anything about the Xbox kicking the PS2\'s ass. You are assuming too much.
I am not assuming by only the post in here.He many times talked about how XBOX will beat PS2.
And he dismisses and declines info that PS2 might offer something revolutionary by comparing it to XBOX and talking about how wrong the info might be.
Here is an example:"X-Box pictures = not on finished hardware. PS2 equals second gen. hmmm if they only look a tad better, that is not too good" he sais nothing about chances of a hyped XBOX.Not a single chance of XBOX hyping or invalid news but he often talks about how invalid PS2 news might be especially if those specific news are about competeing XBOX.
I ve never heard a single opnion from him refering to atleast one possible flaw on XBOX.
Its like saying XBOX is a perfect machine while PS2 is flawed and that XBOX will correct every PS2 flaw.
XBOX has many flaws and many chances to fail too.Why is he rejecting all the possibilities?
He sure talks about PS2\'s flaws and comapares it to the supposed XBOX perfect console.
My assumption was very dry though.I agree.I should have explained it the way I explained ity above.
I admit my mistakes.
A good 98% of the people that post here have said that the Xbox is crap and that they are not planning on getting one anymore. Not ONE of those people has EVER touched an Xbox. That kind of seems like everyone is trading it in before they buy it. I don\'t know what Altered\'s motivation was but I would give the Xbox\'s positives because Nplayer gave nothing but Negatives. You can not give a one sided argument and expect someone to not call you on it. That is just the way it is.
Tell that to Altered.He had never mentioned THIS Which shows how XBOX is losing fans and relyability.
I hope you did not come up with that yourself. That is a pretty lame statement and does not provoke any thought, which I believe(and hope) it was intended to do.
Thats a true statement.I didnt come up with it.I just wrote it with my own words.
It has thought.You just have to go deeper into the meaning to understand it.
Please tell me that you are not a real Psychologist
No I am not a real psychologist:D.Damn I knew I should have used " ".
But what I wrote is again true.These are true phenomenons.
I study psychology with some mates.There are also psychology lessons in some classes in schools according to the combination of lessons you choose.We take any info we find about them create opinions on them.
Ofcourse my English are bad and I find difficulties at explaining some things.
I wasnt trying to be a "poser".:thepimp:
MAN!!HOW MUCH I LIKE THESE CONVERSATIONS!!
Especially when they are multi-lateral.
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Gohan, it takes a lot for me to complain about a certain issue, and I complain for a reason. I have a right to. I regret paying a cent for Nintendo\'s 64, its games, its lies, its whole show. That\'s my firm opinion and doing. No one can make me believe this or that. I wish to believe whatever I want to, as long as it pleases me at the end, which Nintendo 64 didn\'t, I will argue on just about anything that concirns Nintendo. Period. I will keep it in the context of non-ignornace, which I believe that\'s how the administrators/moderators prefer it. My post was geared towards questioning of N-Players posts. Why are they always geared towards how grand Nintendo is, how far superior to any other company. Sure its his opinion, but I can still debate it. I really like to know.
Aside from that, I found this very interesting to be said.
How DARE you insult Konami!!!!!!
Konami is GOD!!!!!!!!!
What the hell have you been smoking? Konami king at making killer crap. Almost all of their offerings to the PSX/N64/DC sports genre was complete trash. Washed out graphics, horrid gameplay. Hell I thought Konami would have picked up on some of the reviews about their products. I guess not. Again my firm opinion, but I believe the net reviewers/magazine reviews explain it for itself.
jm
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jm is just mad that Sega can\'t make a decent selling console and Nintendo can :P
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What the hell is that susposed to mean??
The only thing that sold Nintendo 64\'s was Nintendo\'s promises for the 64DD (which again failed to see light and when it did, was outdated), Mario, Zelda and lets not forget POKEMON. Everything else just bited. Everything! Its racers, RPG\'s, FPS\'s everything! Oh yeah, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, only a handful amount of games that managed to get past through barely tolerable.
Likewise Sega, king of sport games and racing developed and sold MANY GREAT GAMES. The only thing that put Sega to its doom was its close timing to PS2, its anticipated killed it, not the PS2.
Tell me somethings that Dreamcast lacked in in terms of technology, in its games. Lets bring this to a whole new level now.
Nintendo basically just sat back, watched and copied. That\'s it! And market Pokemon. I bet Pikachu earned a nice VP office in NOA headquarters after selling MILLIONS of copies of its game to kiddies. That\'s what drives Nintendo\'s sales thru the roof. Had Nintendo not market Pokemon and Rareware didn\'t keep on developing games after Banjo-Kazooi, Nintendo would probally be in the SAME SITUATION SEGA IS IN. Only this time would Nintendo have more doom reaons than Sega did.
Plus Sega isn\'t dead. Its abandoning the hardware market, ITS STILL developing software for DC!
jm
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Well jm, if all of those genres you mentioned sucked, then why do the sales charts disagree with you?
Unless of course your opinion is automatically fact, then that would make your argument weak, right? I don\'t think Super Smash Bros., Wave Race, 1080 SnowBoarding, Paper Mario, the rest of Nintendo\'s 1st party games, and their 2nd parties had that many games that sold horribly.
It\'s your opinion if you think they sucked, but like I said before, the majority of the people obviously didn\'t think that they sucked. Otherwise, they wouldn\'t have bought it.
I still don\'t see how you say Nintendo copied with the N64. I know you can\'t be talking about the rumble feature (which was copied by Sega, heck Sega couldn\'t even give a built-in-rumble like the outdated PSOne), or the controller. What the heck did Nintendo copy off of with the N64??????
Also, Sega kind of dug their own grave with their past. I mean, sure DC was/is a great console (in fact I have one), but you can\'t expect people to buy it, when the company\'s track record is bad. I also recalled that it was a lack of advertising that also did it, but I\'m not too sure about that.
I hope you don\'t think that I hate Sega though. After all, I was defending the DC for quite a while. Ask anyone here.
The last thing I have to say is why do you have this hatred for Nintendo? It\'s not like they hate gamers. They honestly try to make great games that everyone will like. I\'m sorry that you didn\'t like the games.
By the way, Nintendo could have survived if N64 bombed. You\'re forgetting that Nintendo has a virtual monopoly in the handheld division. Heck, the GBC is almost always above the consoles in hardware sales.
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Sorry, out not replying guys, I was mucho sick yesterday and most of the day today, I threw up 8 times! In all the pretty colors nonetheless! green with corn (fish, corn, and green jello), brown liquid (dr pepper), clear (water), and pink (pink lemonade!),etc.
I took some tylenol, and now I am back.
You guys have seemed to be arguig about me, one side versus another (BTW, thanks to some people for arguing for me), I only defend X-Box when othr people bash it. I don\'t throw it onto the ****e pile like many of you, even before it is out, because I know it will have great games, just like the PS2, which I also know will have excellent games.
I actually didn\'t bash the PS2, I just threw out some negatives against all your guys happy-go-lucky positives. You guys make it sem like PS2 is the greatest system ever, that there is no problem with it. Of course that is false, and I gave you reasons on why you were wrong. I don\'t care if you (N-Player) dont believe my reasons, that is your choice, I am just trying to show you how oyu could mold your opinion into one that makes sense.
Todays CG is represented in TTT. Todays games still do not look anything near todays CG. You can\'t compare a 128 bit game versus a 32bit, first generation CG, that just doesn\'t make sense.
The FFMovie is just that, a movie. It is running on a huge GSCube like thing. One 32bit processor versus 16 (I tihnk) 128bit emotion engine processors. hmmmm.
2. Why make something with such a hard learning curve? what is the point. What if you had a system that would give you all the things you wanted,w ithout having to take a huge hit on the graphics side. I never mentioned X-Box, DC, or any other console in here. You guys act like I love the X-Box or something, to tell you the truth, I really have no opinion on it. Some of the games announced for it sound truly awesome, like Halo and NFL Fever. Of course I will be buying it, since I own every system that comes out. What the hell does Konami know about GC or X-Box? So Nintendo won\'t make ANY good games for it? Lionhead Studios\' Black and White is just a great graphical game? Halo is all graphics? Kojima isn\'t that great of a developer. He has made about 5 or 6 good games. Other games he gets credit for, even when he is not the developer (ZOE, he is just a producer)
3. Again, I wasnt implying that the X-Box is the console that doesnt make you sacrifice anything.
4. who cares how many games support it (UT, HL, Daytona, Q3, NFL2K2, NBA2k2, NHL2K2, PSO witha trick, etc) the fact is, it is there and being used. The Turbo Duo wasnt the first CD console because it sold extrememly crapp in America? Maybe you are too young to remember it.
6. So you dont care if PS2 graphics are just a little better (or not at all) than X-Box\'s unfinished g chip?
8. No, I am a Sega Fanatic remember (at least that is what people used to say)? Really, I just defend the console that is getting bashed. Look at some of the older console debating topics and you will see that I have defended the PS2 against fanboys many times. I will never admit that PS2 is better than DC (IMO it wont be), or that XBox is better than PS2 (who knows?), Im not an X-Box fanatic, I am just defending the console that is being attacked for no reason.
Unicron - I have no idea what you just said right there, because you use incorrect words when trying to explain yourself. I dont follow the mot popular console or thing, or product, I am actually very anti people who DO do that. I am a Sega fan, they are the best developer, but they always come out on bottom. Afraid? the only thing I am afraid of, is a console crash, circa 1984.
Solid Snake - Konami really isnt that great of a developer. How many great titles have they made versus Nintendo, Sega, Capcom, Square of old, or EA of old? have you ever played their sports games? They pretty much suck.
Unicron - Ashford is a very intelligent poster. Just becuase he doesn\'t post alot doesnt mean he isn\'t educated. Some people who post alot actually become dumber with every post.
I don\'t talk about the negatives of X-Box in this thread (I have before) because this thread is supposed to be "Why do people hate the PS2? It IS the greatest EVER!" So I tried to explain that PS2 has alot of negatives too. I didn\'t say X-Box is better either, you are inferring too much.
N-Player - I said that the TTT intro looks like real life. The game doesnt look anything near it. I didnt say that XBox didn\'t sacrifice power for it\'s bells and whistles, just that PS2 isn\'t perfect because it has does. DC is build around either DragonOS or WinCE. WindowsCE is extremely easy to use, just slow. DragonOS has been used in the arcades since 1998, so by the time the DC came out, people were already very used to it.
X-Box isnt out yet retard, I don\'t care which system sells more anyway, many times, the best system isn\'t the one that sells the most consoles, it is the one with the best games. and about your tomorrow/today thing, werent you the one who said that PS2 will be so good int he future because everyone will be experienced on it and will be able to make great looing and playing games? but I thought tomorrow doent matter? That us yur opinion. I think that many of the pictures looked really great. But that is my opinion.
about your little quote, we used that response to PS2 fanboys who thought that PS2 was the greatest thing since sliced bread. You guys were always toting the power and we just used to laugh and show off TD: LM or Shenmue, et al. It was never meant to be anything serious, as real people never play a system for its graphics, DC just has better games, thats all.
If you can quote me sayingthat stupid little quote, I will give you a million dollars. You assme that because I really liek Sega, I must hate everything else.
Gohan - thanks, I DIDN\'T say that X-Box was going to kill the PS2, or anything LIKE that, just that X-Box has somevery good positives over the PS2.
Unicron - remember, I have NEVER said that X-Box was going to beat PS2, find me a URL where I have said that, and I will never come here again.
X-Box isnt on finished hardware. If PS2 pictures only look a little better in comparison to something that will noly get better (the X-Boxs chip) thatn that isnt too good for the PS2. Of course the X-Box is hyped, not nearly as much as Ps2 and it\'s "Toy Story like graphics", but I believe what MS says about the graphics comes much closer to fact than the PS2 did when they were hyping it.
Why would I bash X-Box in this thread? Or name the negatives of X-Box in this thread. This thread is not a comparison thread, it is a "I love my PS2, it is the greatest system, nothing will ever beat it" thread. I am jsut telling some of you fanboys that X-Box has is\' positives over PS2. I dont have to give its negatives, because this thread isn\'t about that.
ElAsesino - So! :)
jm - actually the N64 lived with basically Nintendo only support, becuase their games always sell lots. Mario alone could make a system. There is only 2 pokemon games on N64, and they both came out last year.
El Asesino - yeah, I remember, I used to think you were a Sega fan, so yes, you did defend the DC alot.
Eric Jacob
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LOOK guys, its real simple. People that don\'t have or can\'t get one hate it or love something else. 2 words sum it ALL UP!!!
CONSOLE ENVY!!!!!!
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Originally posted by Unicron!
MAN!!HOW MUCH I LIKE THESE CONVERSATIONS!!
Especially when they are multi-lateral.
Yeah, nice and civilised. None of that flaming stuff. :D
Originally posted by jm
Gohan, it takes a lot for me to complain about a certain issue, and I complain for a reason. I have a right to. I regret paying a cent for Nintendo\'s 64, its games, its lies, its whole show. That\'s my firm opinion and doing. No one can make me believe this or that. I wish to believe whatever I want to, as long as it pleases me at the end, which Nintendo 64 didn\'t, I will argue on just about anything that concirns Nintendo. Period. I will keep it in the context of non-ignornace, which I believe that\'s how the administrators/moderators prefer it. My post was geared towards questioning of N-Players posts. Why are they always geared towards how grand Nintendo is, how far superior to any other company. Sure its his opinion, but I can still debate it. I really like to know.
My bad. You are right. Please excuse my outburst.
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Nplayer the games you mentioned arn\'t even close to realtime CG graphics. The best game that has been shown which is DOOM 3 by ID Software shown at Macworld was CG... Watch the movie and you will see that the games you mentioned can\'t even compete.
Even if you resize the images below, they still will look CG quality. Where TTT and RRV don\'t even come close.
You should really see the DOOM 3 movie to get my point, that really is CG that can be done in realtime.
Here are some other screenshots besides Doom 3 that prove my point...
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.crytek.de%2Fhp%2Fimages%2FGxisle14.jpg&hash=0be901058e8c3fb8477bb1d34eb101aeccc11d10)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.crytek.de%2Fhp%2Fimages%2FGxisle16.jpg&hash=f2e6e3fce0469fb588e57fa5e0286bd818c2ff04)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nvidia.com%2Fpages.nsf%2F23e5e39594c064ee852564ae004fa010%2Fb2a053f4bee18e80882569f8006939b4%2FBody%2F0.20A%3FOpenElement%26FieldElemFormat%3Djpg%0D%3Cbr+%2F%3E&hash=146f980915826dba73d64eaa7732441617a63e73)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgamershq.madonion.com%2Fnews%2Fdata%2F200103%2F2001031302%2F3dmark2001_shot7_big.jpg&hash=2d6ea0a352cb93cec4bfb5a481d4dc00031073c2)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgamershq.madonion.com%2Fnews%2Fdata%2F200103%2F2001031302%2F3dmark2001_shot3_big.jpg&hash=03fda3e49f8cfcbdccf94e86d05eb1fb5e4abeed)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgamershq.madonion.com%2Fnews%2Fdata%2F200103%2F2001031302%2F3dmark2001_shot8_big.jpg&hash=765dcac8a7e5687acc505f02cb4d08a2e14a4afd)
The FRAMES PER SECOND look low on these screenshots but they are not that low on a Geforce 3. If you look at the movie you will see the FPS isn\'t as low as its shown here. These were shots in development with debugging code still in there.
Great graphics, almost CG like!
http://www.nvidia.com/pages.nsf/23e5e39594c064ee852564ae004fa010/145d65692c453960882569f8007d02a9/Body/0.20A?OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=jpg
http://www.nvidia.com/pages.nsf/23e5e39594c064ee852564ae004fa010/9498f5c382eae3cb882569f900006162/Body/0.20A?OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=jpg
And then there are demos of the Geforce 3 such as Zoltar, in which his face eyes teeth look CG.
Watch this movie of the Zoltar Demo for the Geforce 3:
http://www.nvidia.com/Pages.nsf/Lookup/zoltar/$file/zoltar.mpg
Also check this movie out, very cool stuff...
http://www.nvidia.com/Pages.nsf/Lookup/enchilada/$file/enchilada.mpg
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That second to last pic is effing sick. Is that Max Payne? I wonder if that game is going to come out while I am still young enough to enjoy it. You know like under 40.
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Living-In-Clip:
The mini-disc isn\'t that big of a problem. With the texture compression ratio 10:1 (I believe), that will save ALOT of space and if more space is needed you can always use another disc. Not a big deal really.
I think it\'s 6:1. The problem I see with the mini-disc is that there might be some games that can\'t just use another disk. For example, what about a Gran Tourismo game? I heard this from somewhere a while ago (sorry, no sources :)) that GT3 was filling up the DVD fast. What if the game has so much data that it can\'t be made on the NGC because of the limited space? I don\'t see how having 2 Mini-discs would work here.
AlteredBeast:
Sorry, out not replying guys, I was mucho sick yesterday and most of the day today, I threw up 8 times!
That\'s nothing. I once threw up 17 times in one day. (brings back lots of wonderful memories :)) Yeah, that was the best days of my life. :D
Anyways, it\'s good to hear that you\'re feeling better.
Why make something with such a hard learning curve? what is the point. What if you had a system that would give you all the things you wanted,without having to take a huge hit on the graphics side
It\'s called innovation. Sony came up with a really good idea that is completely new to everyone. Streaming is a great idea IMO. Instead of continuing to get bigger and bigger RAM, Sony has come up with a great idea that could change the industry forever. Just give it some time. Once people get used to it, they will prefer it over the old "the more RAM you have, the more you can do" method. (I know, I know, there is a lot of speculation on my part about this :p).
actually the N64 lived with basically Nintendo only support, becuase their games always sell lots. Mario alone could make a system. There is only 2 pokemon games on N64, and they both came out last year.
Pokemon Puzzle League
Pokemon Snap
Pokemon Stadium
Hey You Pikachu!
Pokemon Stadium 2 (not in America yet I think)
That\'s a little more than 2. ;)
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This obviously a saving grace topic. He use to bash ps2 in xbox forum and praise nintendo. Now he is praising ps2 in forums and bashing xbox. Man this obvious an attempt bye u to draw sympathy. From the looks of ps2 I can say that a lot of ppl like it. And everybody will not like everything. Why do ppl hate pizza? Why do ppl hate foreign cars? Why do ppl hate tv?
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First of all Thanks for making your self more clear.
I actually didn\'t bash the PS2, I just threw out some negatives against all your guys happy-go-lucky positives. You guys make it sem like PS2 is the greatest system ever, that there is no problem with it. Of course that is false, and I gave you reasons on why you were wrong. I don\'t care if you (N-Player) dont believe my reasons, that is your choice, I am just trying to show you how oyu could mold your opinion into one that makes sense.
Atleast me I never said PS2 is perfect.Although I speak a lot about teh PS2\'s positives.
Todays CG is represented in TTT. Todays games still do not look anything near todays CG. You can\'t compare a 128 bit game versus a 32bit, first generation CG, that just doesn\'t make sense.
The FFMovie is just that, a movie. It is running on a huge GSCube like thing. One 32bit processor versus 16 (I tihnk) 128bit emotion engine processors. hmmmm.
Well yes but TTT has almost CGI quality graphis.Ok not in par with the CGI\'s we see now.
N-Player2 didnt say TTT is almost looks as good as the superb CGI\'s you have mentioned.
My examples of CGI movies were to show that TTT is near CGI quality although not as good as the superb CGI\'s I and you have mentioned.There are CGI\'s that look better from the others.Should the less good looking CGI\'s be considered non-CGIs?
4. who cares how many games support it (UT, HL, Daytona, Q3, NFL2K2, NBA2k2, NHL2K2, PSO witha trick, etc) the fact is, it is there and being used. The Turbo Duo wasnt the first CD console because it sold extrememly crapp in America? Maybe you are too young to remember it.
If there arent enough develpers to support the console then its more sure to sell less.You mentioned games.Not developers.The games you mentioned are all by one developer only.Sega.
So you dont care if PS2 graphics are just a little better (or not at all) than X-Box\'s unfinished g chip?
So far many PS2 games look better than the results of XBOX\'s unfinished hardare.Thats for sure.
No, I am a Sega Fanatic remember (at least that is what people used to say)? Really, I just defend the console that is getting bashed. Look at some of the older console debating topics and you will see that I have defended the PS2 against fanboys many times. I will never admit that PS2 is better than DC (IMO it wont be), or that XBox is better than PS2 (who knows?), Im not an X-Box fanatic, I am just defending the console that is being attacked for no reason.
The XBOX wasnt getting THAT bashed in this thread.
I have no idea what you just said right there, because you use incorrect words when trying to explain yourself. I dont follow the mot popular console or thing, or product, I am actually very anti people who DO do that. I am a Sega fan, they are the best developer, but they always come out on bottom. Afraid? the only thing I am afraid of, is a console crash, circa 1984.
My first language isnt english and I find difficulties at expressing myself sometimes in English.Especially when I a m tired.
I never spoke about popularity.
When I say afraid I dont mean scared,the unpleasant feeling of fear.I mean the feeling of worriment.
I must try to be clearer.Thats my weak point:(.
Ashford is a very intelligent poster. Just becuase he doesn\'t post alot doesnt mean he isn\'t educated. Some people who post alot actually become dumber with every post.
I never said he is not intelligent.I beleive he is intelligent.The number of posts show how often he visits the forum.If you mean general education thats something I cant judge by the number of posts.
If you mean knowledge around the issues disgussed in the forum then yes.Thats what I ve been talking about.
For example Issues like the VRAM were disgussed many times in the forum and came to the conclusion that the PS2\'s VRAM is more powerfull than it was first thought.Thast why I was surprised when I saw it.He was comparing numbers not their true performance.
X-Box isnt out yet retard
I hope you arent refering to me.
Why would I bash X-Box in this thread? Or name the negatives of X-Box in this thread. This thread is not a comparison thread, it is a "I love my PS2, it is the greatest system, nothing will ever beat it" thread. I am jsut telling some of you fanboys that X-Box has is\' positives over PS2. I dont have to give its negatives, because this thread isn\'t about that.
You and some ithers took the meaning of the thread differently from the way I and some others took it.
Personally I didnt see it as a thread "I love my PS2, it is the greatest system, nothing will ever beat it".
XBOX has its positives over PS2 but you never talked about a single XBOX negative in any other thread either.Or any positive PS2 has over XBOX.
I played PS2,DC and saw lots of info about GC and minimal on XBOX (mainly because everytime I read about XBOX i sometimes see XBOX propagantha-like info and news.) and all consoles have their cons and pros.
So I find no reason to start posting a ton of minor negative stuff whenever I get the chance about a console.Especially when I am in a forum about that console or a thread refering to the positives of that console.
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Unicron - No, I wasnt referring to you on that retard comment, I was referring to N-Player and his Ps2 =15 million sold, X-Box = 0 consoles sold. I kindly told him that X-Box isnt out yet, how COULD there be any sales.
Also, I think it is because of your less high english skills that you do no understand the nature of N-Players post. This IS a post designed to bash the X-Box, he just drops in some info that seems unpleasant MS for no reason, therefore bashing it, some one neds to correct him, so I did.
I have stated some negatives on X-Box before, I just don\'t need to do it often because topics aren\'t usually designed over it. If there was a topic called "What are some negatives of X-Box" and it wasn\'t a horrible piece of crap topic, I would probably put in some of my own comments, that is, unless someone else did it for me, then there would be no need for me to do that, like in past times.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
Unicron - No, I wasnt referring to you on that retard comment, I was referring to N-Player and his Ps2 =15 million sold, X-Box = 0 consoles sold. I kindly told him that X-Box isnt out yet, how COULD there be any sales.
Also, I think it is because of your less high english skills that you do no understand the nature of N-Players post. This IS a post designed to bash the X-Box, he just drops in some info that seems unpleasant MS for no reason, therefore bashing it, some one neds to correct him, so I did.
I have stated some negatives on X-Box before, I just don\'t need to do it often because topics aren\'t usually designed over it. If there was a topic called "What are some negatives of X-Box" and it wasn\'t a horrible piece of crap topic, I would probably put in some of my own comments, that is, unless someone else did it for me, then there would be no need for me to do that, like in past times.
Eric Jacob
No, I wasnt referring to you on that retard comment,
Well ok then:).
I have never seen you stating negatives on X-Box before.Propably I should start visiting the forums more often too.
I am glad we finally came to an understanding.
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"If there arent enough develpers to support the console then its more sure to sell less.You mentioned games.Not developers.The games you mentioned are all by one developer only.Sega. "
Uhhh......wrong, again. What are you talking about? He\'s mentioning the BB adapter. What console???
Unreal, Half-Life, and Q3 are not Sega games.
Please get some more experience. :P
"I never said he is not intelligent.I beleive he is intelligent.The number of posts show how often he visits the forum.If you mean general education thats something I cant judge by the number of posts. "
For the last time, I visit this forum almost every day. Is that so hard to understand? I just don\'t post. Does that mean I also don\'t read? I just don\'t feel like joining the masses and posting the usual BS:
"MGS WILL RULE!!!"
"GT3 WILL RULE!!!"
"PS2 WILL KICK XBOX\'s AND GC\'s A$$!!!"
"SEGA IS DEAD, HA HA HA HA!!!"
Thanks for the props, Altered.
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Okay, so that was a joke about the masses posting the same BS, day in, day out.
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No problem Ash.
Actually, your post is pretty much true. That is why you see me posting less and less in the main forum and more and more in the off-topic/console debate forums. The main is just stupid "countdown to blah game 3/2001/ whatever" It just starts to get annoying, like those are the only games people are looking forward too. There used to be alot more interesting things going on in the main forum, that is, until I found out about console debating :)
Eric Jacob
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Beast:
i said FALL2001...last timed i checked march is not fall;)
PS2 will have sold 15+million by then
xbox will start with 0..
simple enough for you?.....
Docwiz:
a couple of FACTS:
1)tvs do not use that resolution
2)LOTS of detail is lost due to that reson
3)they are tech-demos
4)World rally championship DOES look like CG...go look for it at IGN ps2.
Doom3 demo is just not impressive..pitch black dark, one model on screen only...bland...it just don\'t give me that "wow" factor...
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so dont play it on a TV. Oh wait the PS2 can\'t be played on a PC monitor, my mistake.
Everything starts with zero, obviously, you are so dumb if you actually believe X-Box is automatically dead, just because PS2 launched first.
World Championship racer does not look like CG. Why? Because today\'s CG looks much better than that.
Eric Jacob
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do you not understand what "look\'s LIKE" means?....
world rally championship totally destroys anything we have seen on the DC and....Sony has the license for 5 years(you will ONLY see offical logos players and cars on the sony system)......
it\'s amazing and looks like high quality CG....not a opinion but that is FACT.
They cannot win....never..
with the head start sony has the fact that nintendo will launch right next to them...they CANNOT WIN..
why don\'t you tell me how they will catch-up to a 15million world-wide userbase over-night:rolleyes: and make people totally ignore mario and pokemon...come on tell me.
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The most popular system has been brought down before, NES to Genesis, to Sony (who the hell are they in the games industry!),etc.
Sony was new and they won. Why? THey made the least amount of mistakes last generation. Sony has already made alot of mistakes this generation. It actually looks, in my mind, that MS and Nintendo have the best chance for America.
I will say it again, WC is not even close to CG. Go look at today\'s CG, then at WC, and you will realize that CG blows it out of the water. If you are comparing WC to old CG, out of this generation, then you would be correct, albeit half-retarded.
Eric Jacob
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The most popular system has been brought down before, NES to Genesis, to Sony (who the hell are they in the games industry!),etc.
That argument is flawed. Of course NES was taken down by Genesis. The NES was @ the end of its life span and the Genesis was the next-generation. Same goes for the genny VS Sony, which theoretically, SNES won over the Genny anyway. Sega killed themselves with the Saturn (here) and the N64 is a pile of ****, Although it was supposed to be more powerful, it didn\'t do squat. I\'m not stating here that PS2 will reign supreme, just sick of people using examples from the past. Today\'s gaming is nothing like back then.
- dm
- what\'s in the f\'cking box?
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"it\'s amazing and looks like high quality CG....not a opinion but that is FACT. "
Beauty Is In The Eye Of The Beholder
Ever hear this phrase during your 10-12 years on this planet?
Graphics are only pretty to the individual, not everyone.
I guess actual gameplay is not important to you. As long as it pushes 50 billion polygons and uses every effect possible, it\'s worth $60.
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Ashford these are wise words.I like your last post.
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datamage, I meant game companies and not systems.
Nintendo lost in the 16 bit wars. but they won the 8 bit war (due to illegal business practices)
Sega won the 16 bit gen, but lost the 32bit war (supporting 5 systems at one time will do that to you.)
Sony won the 32Bit war. (made the least mistakes out of anyone.)
Eric Jacob
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Nintendo won the 16-bit war in software sales... I think.
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And the SNES sold more units overall...
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actually, Genesis won in software sales for sure, although it is pretty much in the air as far as console sales go. Sega lead from 90 to 92. But SNES led from 93 to 96 while Sega shifted it\'s focus on SegaCD and 32X.
Eric Jacob
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I think in the end, the SNES sold more than the Genny..
- dm
- what\'s in the f\'cking box?
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Originally posted by Unicron!
Ashford these are wise words.I like your last post.
I\'m glad we can agree on something. :P
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PS2 is shiny.
________
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Originally posted by Ashford
I\'m glad we can agree on something. :P
me2:)
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Originally posted by AlteredBeast
The most popular system has been brought down before, NES to Genesis, to Sony (who the hell are they in the games industry!),etc.
Sony was new and they won. Why? THey made the least amount of mistakes last generation.....
What you say is a half truth and your statement is superficial...No Offense!
Sony was new and they released a powerful console,with the first GPU(with hardware T&L),CD-Rom format and easy to develop for!
Why did they win? Because they made the least amount of mistakes last generation??...mmm...I should say:"They won because Nintendo did a Big Mistake with cartridges(Non-Standard Format in the subsequent years-more expensive for developers and Consumers) /// ...and Sony did the right move(CD Rom) - Nintendo released the Nintendo 64 with excessive delay and after Great Games like Mario64,Mario Kart,GoldenEye 007(I have got them:)),a long long pause,no more good games :crying: and I had to wait a long long time to regain Trust in Nintendo! /// ...in the meantime?...I enjoyed myself playing a lot of Great PSX Games!
...so...at the end of the day PSX won!...why?...Has PSX better graphics than N64? mmm NO!
Do PSX offer more applications then N64...No...both offer Games with the difference that N64 has better multi-player-games(my opinion)...
...Sony won because they did the right moves and again...I think Sony is doing the right moves and I\'m confident that time will prove my point!
Sony has already made alot of mistakes this generation. It actually looks, in my mind, that MS and Nintendo have the best chance for America.
You are right...only in your mind(again...no offense)
List all the Big Mistakes Sony has done in this generation...and...please...don\'t be BS...
The PS2 is difficult to develop for and maybe a nightmare at first...this is the BIG problem for you? Developers are learning how to push this beast and I\'m confident that with another extra year they will find no more problems and games will get better and better with less time and effort!
PS2 has more than one year and half of advantage over the X-Box in America,and almost 2 years in Japan! So...try to explain to me what kind of advantage X-Box will have over the PS2! Better games?? Hi Hi Hi....on-line games at launch?? DVD capabilities? A more competitive price?? Why the best developers prefer PS2? Why Konami will spend 70% of their resources on PSX and PS2?...Isn\'t X-Box 3 times more powerful than PS2 and ways easier to develop for??:rolleyes:
Are the best developers of the Planet masochist? Is Konami masochist?...so...People...I think there is a good reason if Square,Namco,Konami prefer PS2....no further words.......
.........Things could change...but please show me FACTS not your desires!!!!
Eric Jacob [/B]
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Originally posted by Chic
PS2 is shiny.
I dont get it........
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BizioEE - yeah, that is probably more true of a statement. After all, before the 32Bit era, there really wasnt a way to make a huge mistake like with cartridges after the world had gone CD.
your second thought also clears things up a bit, which I was thinking about, but I am just wondering if the devs for PS2 will have enough time to learn the intricacies of PS2, whilst being tempted by the supposedly super easy enviroments of GC and X-Box.
Eric Jacob