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Playstation/Gaming Discussions => PS3 Discussion => Topic started by: unknown on March 19, 2001, 10:02:03 AM
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"You know the feeling. The game over screen appears, and you\'re up next. Except the guy with the pad hasn’t given it to you. He’s held onto it and pressed start. We’ve all been there, and we may even have started hitting the kid with the pad. Louisville County Court in the USA is trying to ascertain whether a similar feud caused 15 year old Aaron Hardin to shoot his younger brother Andre in the head from point blank range in 1999."
the trial has started for the 15 year old boy that shot his little bro because an argument over who was next in a game!? this is really sad people, it makes me feel all fu*ked up inside for some reason, this isnt right, is it the parents falt? I think it is, where the hell are the going to leave a gun around for thier little boy to find it? here is the link to the rest of this story
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/story.cfm?sid=2375
tell me what you think, im sorry for not putting this in the off topic but i think this is main news even if its not about the ps2
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A sad sad world we live in...
But I don\'t blame the parents, nor the society that surrounds us. I blame the people out there that don\'t have half a brain to use common sense. I feel common sense is one of the most important aspects in life, yet so many people in life lack it.
- dm
- what\'s in the f\'cking box?
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yeah its all the parents fault....I think they should make it Illegal to won a Gun of any calibur.....
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yeah its all the parents fault....I think they should make it Illegal to won a Gun of any calibur.....
The kid was 15. Some people on this forum are 15.. By the time you get to that age, I\'d like to think they have some intelligence not to blow their little brother\'s brain out over a game.
- dm
- what\'s in the f\'cking box?
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honestly you got a point there my little bro is only 14 and he acts like hes 16, the kid did know what he was doing, that is just makes it even worse, you take you little brothers life over a game.. your own blood...that makes me want to kill that son of a b*tch, i hope he gets life with no parol or death, did you hear about that 14 year old kid who got life in prisonw ith no parol cause he smashed his little sisters head in, and said they were wrestling, thats just worse, god what life do we live in.
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Originally posted by unknown
honestly you got a point there my little bro is only 14 and he acts like hes 16, the kid did know what he was doing, that is just makes it even worse, you take you little brothers life over a game.. your own blood...that makes me want to kill that son of a b*tch, i hope he gets life with no parol or death, did you hear about that 14 year old kid who got life in prisonw ith no parol cause he smashed his little sisters head in, and said they were wrestling, thats just worse, god what life do we live in.
Yeah but the 14 year old kid one I believe was an accident.
That Mother just lost both her children...
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Originally posted by CYprEsS
Yeah but the 14 year old kid one I believe was an accident.
That Mother just lost both her children...
well my mom told me the story, i didnt see it myself sorry if i got it wrong
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It\'s tragic. I think the parents are ultimately to blame. Sure one thinks that a 15 year old has the brains to know what is right and wrong, but the parents are supposed to nurture their child to use their intelligence wisely. If parents were properly raising their children, this wouldn\'t be happening.
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Man, this isn\'t just about games. IMHO there are so many influences nowadays. Just take for example the amount
of telivised violence and sex... I\'m now 26 but when i was about 10 years old, none of this was apparant.
Heck, even now in kids programmes there seems to be various sexual inuendo\'s aimed at the older audience.
Kids need to be protected against this stuff man, this IMO is getting out of hand. Maybee in another 10 years
kids cartoons will involve porn n stuff, well maybee not.
But if you are aged about the same as me you\'ll notice the difference in cartoons. i was brought up on stuff like He-man, terrahawks, The Groovie Ghoulies, etc..etc...
Nowadays the cartoons seem a little more violent. Porn is shown at earlier times, allbiet soft but kids understand this stuff.
Society is screwed up, plain and simple. People allways want the bigger explosions, the bigger car crashes etc...etc....
This just fuels the need for more violence on TV. Kids want it, Parents want it. I have two children and i am quite
carefull on what they watch on TV. a good thing though is that they really like the disney channel so i can let them
watch television without any need to keep ane eye on whats on. Kids are very impressionable, parents should
monitor what their children view. this should be applicable to all. but when the kids go to bed then watch what you like. :D
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It is partially the parents fault for making the gun so accessible.
I also think that the kid might be a little crazy. I have been PISSED at my brothers before and we have had fist fights but I would NEVER be crazy enough to go get a weapon and shoot them. To waste two lives over 5 minutes of fun is just ridiculous.
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In Spain there was something like that one year ago. A pitty.
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Unbeleivable.
I think the parents didnt communicate much with their children so they werent tought about whats right or wrong and about how society is in real life.
Normally kids that mimic violent scenes from TV or Video games indicate to parents that dont spent much time with them thus the kids are influenced by the scenes they see in order to cope woth society instead of parental guidance.Unfortunately TV programs and Video games have a lot of sexual and viloent content instead of the real world so children think these are right because these are the only things they see.
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Originally posted by Gohan
It is partially the parents fault for making the gun so accessible.
I also think that the kid might be a little crazy. I have been PISSED at my brothers before and we have had fist fights but I would NEVER be crazy enough to go get a weapon and shoot them. To waste two lives over 5 minutes of fun is just ridiculous.
YES, it is totally the parents fault, but it really has nothing to do with the gun.
Lets say that any of us were playing a game and not only did your parent have a gun, but say they left it loaded sitting on the coffee table right in front of you. Say they aren\'t home and your brother won\'t give you the controller. Would any of you pick this gun up?
The kid is screwed up in his head. The parents probably lost control of these kids long ago.
Moral of the story, use a condom!!!
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Originally posted by Videoholic
YES, it is totally the parents fault, but it really has nothing to do with the gun.
Lets say that any of us were playing a game and not only did your parent have a gun, but say they left it loaded sitting on the coffee table right in front of you. Say they aren\'t home and your brother won\'t give you the controller. Would any of you pick this gun up?
The kid is screwed up in his head. The parents probably lost control of these kids long ago.
Moral of the story, use a condom!!!
Our society will never be perfect..We just have to accept it..We will never have a perfect Crimeless society there is just no way in hell that would happen.
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of course it will never be perfect, how can society be perfect if our own goverment lies to us as well, our own police, the ones that are supposed to keep us safe, are framing peeps formoney. face it we live in a cyrropted world, this will lead to our demise.
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Parents to blame? Not hardly. So what if the gun was sitting on a golden pedestal with 10 neon signs that said "PULL MY TRIGGER".
There\'s no excuse for murder. I can\'t believe he did it to his own brother. I hope he\'s executed.
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God you people are so gloomy. Sure some people are screwed up, and the government is the devil, they could just kill you for no reason and no one could do a thing about it, but its not all bad. We have great people like Sony, Nintendo, Sega, Namco, Konami, Capcom, and Squaresoft running the videogame industry, so at least if the world comes to an end we will still have our videogames. Right? RIGHT? Oh crap.
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Originally posted by EmperorRob
There\'s no excuse for murder. I can\'t believe he did it to his own brother. I hope he\'s executed.
Two wrongs don\'t make a right.
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Wow this really is sad what a f*cked up kid.... Its partially the parents fault b/c they probobly hid the gun in sum stupid spot but its almost ALL the kids fault. I would disown that little bastard for taking his own flesh and bloods life over a simple video game... god this made me so mad.. I can\'t believe sum people would go this fair just to play a video game I cant believe this....
It should be illegal to own a gun unless its for your job, who needs a gun? seriously? Whats the point of hunting? I think there is no reason fopr guns unless your a cop or in the army or sumthing.
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Originally posted by FackinKubuss
It should be illegal to own a gun unless its for your job, who needs a gun? seriously? Whats the point of hunting? I think there is no reason fopr guns unless your a cop or in the army or sumthing.
Yep, I pretty much feel the same way.
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I was just reading this on another website,i carnt believe this,it is so stupid.
I really am lost for words!!!!!!!
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Good thing we dont have psycho children in Sweden. ;)
(Only once has a small child killed a younger boy)
Hmm.. All psycho children are put in the woods and get eaten by wolfs.
Only that the Norwegians kill the wolfs.. Damn them!
/FAST
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Some sh1t like that happened where I live. To 12 year olds got into a fight at an arcade about a girl. So one kid stuck a knife straight through his best friends head. Then he asked the girl out on a date. He acted like nothing had happened.
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Wow Tool thats probobly even worse, god damn physcho "Hey I just stabbed my best friend in the head but you wanna go mout on a date anyway, I wont hurt you unless you dont let me play the video game when its gameover" man... what has happend to this world?
They\'re used to be so much crazy stuff goin on with all the philosiphers and crap, now that they invented and figured everything out theres nuthin for us to do so we just kill each other HEY SOUNDS LIKE FUN j/k
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Originally posted by FackinKubuss
Wow Tool thats probobly even worse, god damn physcho "Hey I just stabbed my best friend in the head but you wanna go mout on a date anyway, I wont hurt you unless you dont let me play the video game when its gameover"
haha...ha...a....hmmmmmm, well i think thats jacked up.
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Over a game?? Stupid kids....the world must live another day...
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.skybusiness.com%2Fdean%2Fsmile.gif&hash=f4a68078034bd6d742a57db8367ae8b53da3b6a6)
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who do I blame? Society? No. Videogame violence? Hell no. The Kid himself? yup. Add in a little bad, irresponsible parenting, and voila, Bam!
I have 5 older brothers and 4 older isters (I am the youngest of ten :) not joking) and all I know is, I never shot any of my brothers. I might of cried if they wouldnt let me play on my turn, but no shooting, stabbing, or kicking.
stupid kid deserves jail in my opinion.
Eric Jacob
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Originally posted by unknown
well my mom told me the story, i didnt see it myself sorry if i got it wrong
It was an accident (the 14yr old Florida case). Jed Bush is considering reducing the sentence or executing his rights to give a lesser sentence, which could include therapy for the child and parole.
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I don\'t blame the parents any more than I do society but don\'t blame them any less either. Until we evolve beyond the gun toteing mentality that is America this kind of outcome is bound to continue. I haven\'t heard the testimony so it\'s easier to believe it was more an accident than anything. Columbine and the latest school shootings are more to the point. I think video games are one of the very few places where guns belong. In my view our games act as a kind safety valve for pent-up aggression. Its a shame video games will take the heat for inciting violence instead. Sure they feed twisted minds to act out in real life the fantasy worlds they grow to love and feel most comfortable in. Do you think for a moment this is likely to happen to anyone growing up that\'s shown respect and consideration from those most closely touching their lives? Neglected by parents, tortured or treated like dirt by their peers anything can happen. Throw in twice as many guns as there are people... maybe we should be surprised these tragic events don\'t happen more often.
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Yea I know I was just so mad about the 1st thing you posted, still cant believe. I\'m 14 too and I would NEVER think of doing that.
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really.......... what makes people do those things? i mean i know i would never shoot someone no matter what happend. well unless i was a cop or something. i mean there has to be something else wrong with those kids........ something like THEY ARE ALL VERY VERY SCREWED UP IN THE HEAD.
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well i have been shot, in the arm with a 22 rifle.. bullets be hot they burnin! it wasnt pleasent at all, guess cause im gang affiliated at that time, i wasnt in it, just kicked it with a grip of peeps
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well one thing is guarenteed. Lil Bro won\'t be hoggin the controler anymore
wonder how big bro is dealing with that
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To get carried away like this is so tragic of course this could have been over anything. Kids killing Kids spells a deeper problem in our society. People have just lost thier fear of God.
________
Hyde Park Residence 2 Pattaya (http://pattayaluxurycondos.com)
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"Until we evolve beyond the gun toteing mentality that is America this kind of outcome is bound to continue." - Heretic
Wrong. There is absolutely no reason why the populous of this country should go defenseless in the face of internal or external threats. What we need to do, as a society and as a race, is learn that we all must be held accountable for our own actions and that we should have a basic level of respect for one another.
Do I blame guns? No, a gun is an inanimate object, the kid could have just as easily stuck a steak knife in his brother\'s ear. Do I blame the Parents? No, at least not entirely without knowing some more details of their homelife. They could have been very good parents, but if the kid lives around or goes to school in violent surroundings.. then the kid will likely pick up those violent tendacies from his friends. Do I blame a violent media? To a digree yes.. it takes a village to raise a child, and with the advent of Television, Internet, and poorly regulated movies & videogames.. this whole world has become one big village. If the parents do not instill their morals into the child, then primetime TV and violent games will.
Ultimately, it is the child\'s fault. An "Accident" my ass... even if the older brother was just trying to scare his little brother, at 14 he should have known goddamn well enough what the reprecussions of his actions, weither deliberate or not, would bring. Both in immediate punishment and long term mental torment. He could have found a much better solution, even if he insisted to use violence. A busted tooth and black eye are much less painful for both brothers than half a missing crainum and a dead brother.
In bitter irony, Jeb Bush is considering giving the "poor" kid a break. Once again, showing this culture\'s severe aversion to taking responsibility for one\'s self. Blame society, blame guns, blame parents, blame video games.. but by all means don\'t blame the one who pulled the trigger. What a load of horse crap.
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God, I won\'t blame the parents, nor the society. If I\'d blame them, we\'d all be wackies with guns here. I am about to be 15, and I wouldn\'t even dream of killing my little-sister, as I have respect towards her life. I know what I do every day. I can separate good and bad from each other. I am old enough to take responsibility.
So, this 15 year old has been crazy trough his whole life. Something that has been with him since his born. I\'ve watched gory movies and played gory games from my early childhood, and never I have thought even to beat someone up ( well, maybe in boxing; but that\'s quite different ).
but we could blame the Society for launching the reaction, wich was ready to be launched inside this mentally ill mind. Maybe this boy saw a really gory movie wich then pushed the open "I\'m-crazy"-button in his head. There\'s something to start the reaction. Maybe just the anger towards the little-brother.
I know how annoying it is when my little-sister wants to get to computer and is all c0cky and says "she\'s going to be here for a loooong time" and so on. But never I have hit, nor even thought of hitting my little sister! Of course I\'ve been yelling back, but never could I take anyones life. That means, I\'m mentally normal and no movie can start any reaction.
I hope you get my point here. Don\'t blame the parents, don\'t blame the society; or at least don\'t blame them over a certain point.
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No guns = No "accidents" !!!
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Love is the answer. That\'s a very sad story. You know the recent school shooting? My friend\'s sister\'s friend was one of the two people that died in that scary mess...:(. What a world we live in...
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For all these people who say that guns are the cause of these crimes, I wonder if it would make them feel better if they were pushed out of a window instead.
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That´s complete bull$hit...
It is a huge difference to pull a trigger, or to take a person and throw him out of a window...
We here in Germany don´t have any guns alowed... and it doesn´t rain ppl... ...
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Sony Fan,
The key word to the quote used from my post is "evolve". By that I don\'t intend to imply guns be taken away nor people without guns are better than those with them, only better off without them. Nothing more. I can certainly see the statement now as a major put down of gun ownership and I\'m sorry for dropping such a bomb on ya without explaining it better. If you want to hash it out some more with me a better place would be in the off topic forum. Let me know
I was lumping this topic into the kids killing kids category which is maybe a mistake also. In searching for why, spreading the blame around is not to take away from the killers guilt/resposibility but an effort to try and head off the next one. Anyone see the movie Grand Canyon? As Danny Glover\'s character says early on in the middle of some baaad she-at "Its not supposed to be this way"
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Originally posted by THE EYE
That´s complete bull$hit...
It is a huge difference to pull a trigger, or to take a person and throw him out of a window...
We here in Germany don´t have any guns alowed... and it doesn´t rain ppl... ...
And the difference is what? Either way it\'s murder.
King Solomon said "There\'s nothing new under the sun", and he was and is right. There were no guns back then, but murder has existed since man.
People do not kill because they have a gun in their hand, they kill because they have hate in their heart.
I would die before I let my sister be hurt and this kid picked up a gun over a game. Where\'s the love there?
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Yes, there was like that, in USA. 5 kids went to a gun shop and 2 of them got shogun and other 3 just get a gun, They thought it would be cool to go school and shot all teacher and Guess what? It happen.
They only kill 5 Teacher and get this! They kill around 20 student! WTF is that?! what did the student did to the kid?! That why I don\'t want to see shooting and people getting killed. I hope that we all can get rid of gun on the Earth, throw out into space where alien can use them. If I was wrong about something, or miss...pls tell me.
What was that, a boy shot his little brother because he lost?! it just a game dammit! Really, I hate to see my family member or friend died in my own eye. It a shame that the little boy died.
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"King Solomon said "There\'s nothing new under the sun", and he was and is right. There were no guns back then, but murder has existed since man." - EmporerRob
Exactly, gun\'s haven\'t created murder, they\'ve just made it easier. Their an equalizer since anyone can talk **** and kill without having to put any effort or respect into learning the weapon. It\'s a whole nother story to talk **** and get into a sword fight, since you have to know how to weild the sword and do it better than your opponent. Ever wonder why there hasn\'t been any Martial Art\'s mass murderers (Aside from the people who do it for a profession)? It\'s because of the respect you learn for the art durring the years of arduous training.
They also remove responsibility since they can "Accidentally" go off without the agressor "Knowing it was loaded". It\'s bull****, if you don\'t have enough respect for the power you\'re weilding then you have no buisness with that weapon in your hands. It\'s the same as keeping Nukes out of irresponsible government\'s hands, but on a much smaller scale.
However, to ban guns isn\'t the answer. If guns are outlawed, only the outlaws will have guns. But more than that.. the government will still have guns.. and other governments will still have guns. We are granted the right to bear arms for protection, from outside and inside hostilities. Our forefathers built the USA on the principle of freedom and granted us the right to protect our freedoms from everyone, even the US government should it start opressing it\'s people. If we give up our guns, we give up our power. There\'s more might in the populace of the USA than in our entire military... and if we give that up, we give up one hell of a tactical advantage over enemies who might invade America. Remember, we would have lost the Reveloutiary war if it weren\'t for every farmer along the New England colonies taking pot shots at the brittish troops. Now also remember Europe, who\'s unarmed populace and weak defences allowed Hitler to march all the way to the english channel almost unimpeeded. Thanks to the Stuka\'s and Panzers, he most likely would have made it anyway.. but he\'d have had a hell of a lot more opposition and prehaps wouldn\'t have had the resources to put up the fight he did durring the Allied invasion of Europe.
America will be invaded by forigen hostiles at some point in the future. It\'s not a question of "IF", it\'s a question of "When". Every great empire in history has crumbled, often violently, and it\'s foolish to think that America can never be knocked down to the status of a 3rd world country. I want to be ready to defend my little corner of this country if the need arises.. the military can\'t be everywhere at once.. but the citizens can.
Our problem is, the populace is armed to the teeth for war, but living in peace. Without training and respect, of course their going to use their tools of destruction irresposibly. There\'s a better solution out there, It\'s just a matter of finding it. But banning guns, I\'m afraid, is far more dangerous than having them.
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Yeah, but it doesn\'t take a master to stab someone in the back or kill an unarmed man. People are taken advantage of all the time. Only thing that changes is the way we do it.
You\'re right on about gun legislation. Guns will not just dissappear. Drugs are illegal too, and there\'s plenty of that makes into the States.
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Originally posted by SonyFan
America will be invaded by forigen hostiles at some point in the future. It\'s not a question of "IF", it\'s a question of "When". Every great empire in history has crumbled, often violently, and it\'s foolish to think that America can never be knocked down to the status of a 3rd world country. I want to be ready to defend my little corner of this country if the need arises.. the military can\'t be everywhere at once.. but the citizens can.
If anyone decides to \'invade\' the US in the near future, they\'re going to be using helicopters, supersonic aircraft, tanks, napalm, laser guided bombs, chemical weapons and ICMBs. A puny little handgun, or an AK47 for that matter, isn\'t going to help, so unless you have a bazooka stashed in your sock draw and a tank in the garage I doubt you and your neighbours would make much of a difference.
I now live in Canada, if the US decides to invade there isn\'t a thing we can do and me having a handgun isn\'t really going to protect me from America\'s finest from smashing through my front door.
:)
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"If anyone decides to \'invade\' the US in the near future, they\'re going to be using helicopters, supersonic aircraft, tanks, napalm, laser guided bombs, chemical weapons and ICMBs. A puny little handgun, or an AK47 for that matter, isn\'t going to help" - Lavan
You\'d be surprised. America had all that (Minus the ICBM\'s) when we fought the Vietnam war and guess what.. we lost. Then again, we also didn\'t have farmers picking our soldiers off at every turn.. they were just hiding guns and enemy soldiers. There wasn\'t even really a groundwar in Iraq, it was more like a 100 hour scirmish. We decimated their military, but had the citizens been against us rather than for us and decided to fight.. then we\'d have had a hell of a battle on our hands. There will always be ground troops needed to hold positions and gain territory that would be costly and difficult to invade using tanks and jets. It\'s those ground troops that we could fight against. Let the airforce shoot their planes down, let the Navy sink their ships, but the soldiers we could save by having the means for the public to help with the fighting could go a long way into retaking lost territory.
Besides, if ground troops aren\'t effective anymore then why do we and every other country in the world still have them? Because their cheap, vercitile, innovative, intelligent, and easy to manuver. The human body is perhaps one of the greatest military tools we have, unfotunately.
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Originally posted by THE EYE
That´s complete bull$hit...
It is a huge difference to pull a trigger, or to take a person and throw him out of a window...
We here in Germany don´t have any guns alowed... and it doesn´t rain ppl... ...
Agreed. I know I\'ll just be holding my breath until my face turns blue, but something has to be done about the guns in the U.S. . If one really stops and thinks about it, it just doesn\'t make sense. Yes society is not perfect, but it\'s because of this reason why guns should be banned. Yes I said it. Banned damn it! Gun access only makes a sick person, sociopath, etc.. even more of a killing machine than they already are. I know we\'re talking about these kids here, but accident or not, without the guns, this would not be debated and the kid could have lived to play another day.
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Originally posted by SonyFan
Besides, if ground troops aren\'t effective anymore then why do we and every other country in the world still have them? Because their cheap, vercitile, innovative, intelligent, and easy to manuver. The human body is perhaps one of the greatest military tools we have, unfotunately.
I understand what you\'re trying to say, but I still think there\'s a fundamental difference between trained army ground troops who would be equipped with tanks, heavy artillery, mortars etc. and the general populace armed with puny handguns. Soldiers don\'t go to boot camp and learn to operate army weaponry for nothing, not to mention the ground troops would be taking part in coordinated strategic maneuvers on the ground.
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Originally posted by Lavan
I understand what you\'re trying to say, but I still think there\'s a fundamental difference between trained army ground troops who would be equipped with tanks, heavy artillery, mortars etc. and the general populace armed with puny handguns. Soldiers don\'t go to boot camp and learn to operate army weaponry for nothing, not to mention the ground troops would be taking part in coordinated strategic maneuvers on the ground.
There is a difference, a very large difference. However a bullet will kill a seasoned troop just as well as it will kill a civilian. If even one enemy soldier get\'s killed in a minor uprising, then that\'s one less enemy soldier to oppose our military... one less trained soldier who\'s good at what he does.. killing our troops. Now of course the average Joe citizen would be at a disadvantage against seasoned troops.. but the nation would not. Aside from the hardware, an invading military force would send over 1 to 2 million troops at the most (No country has over 2 million soldiers AFAIK). Now that sounds like a lot, but it\'s no match for half a billion armed citizens.
You also have to remember that Tanks, Planes, Subs, and Troops can\'t fight indefinately. If the public has the means to help the military to disrupt supply lines, then those Tanks, Planes, and Subs will have no way to get a relable source for food, fuel, or ammunition.
But perhaps being untrained is an advantage in it\'s self. While the military would move in plattons and flanks.. citizens would be scattered, making it very difficult to locate and destory opposition. A good example of this is again in WWII. Durring the D-Day invasion, the American and British troops flew into France upon gliders and parachuted down. However severe miscalculations and agressive enemy artillary caused our troops to spread across a wide area behind enemy lines rather than in a tight formation like originally planned. It was a complete mistake that ended up winning the day since scattered troops could hit enemy positions and run without revealing the location of every other troop in the platoon. Now compair that scenario against the troops who landed on Normandy in HigginsBoats, best depicted in the first 15 minuites of Speilburg\'s "Saving Private Ryan".
That\'s the kind of warfare I\'m talking about. If our citizens lined up in the streets awaiting the enemy, of course they\'d be massacred. But if they used their homes, buisnesses, sewers, parks, and other hiding spots to fire from at a distance and run.. and if they were disorginized enough to keep the rain of bullets comming at any time from any direction, there\'s not much opposing ground forces could do to stop them.
Remember also that the armed US citizens who helped the Continental Army fight off the British durring the Reveloutionary War were nothing more than Farmers, Bankers, StoreKeeps, and often times children who had nothing more than a rusty musket and a pair of swift legs. The Brittish on the other hand had experienced soldiers, an extreemly powerful Navy, cannons, and bombs.
In the face of two wars with the Brittish, a war with the French, a war with the Spanish, and an entire nation full of hostile natives who wanted to stop the white man\'s westward expansion, The United States grew from a meer 13 sparcely populated colonies along the eastern seaboard into the nation we know today. I don\'t think we could have survived without an armed population. Despite this peace, we still live in an unstable world, and are by no means removed from the threat of attack or invasion. I would rather be prepared for the worst, than allow ourselves to loose a major tactical advantage just because a small percentage of ***holes can\'t learn the difference between wrong and right.
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I still don\'t see the logic in your argument SonyFan. Are you trying to justify having a gun? We all know that farmers and bankers fought in the American revolution against the "mighty" British; but there is one main difference. Back then they all had pretty much the same gun. Of course there were slight differences but overall they were the same thing. Now do you think that you and some of your buddies with 9mm\'s will hold off a group of enemy infantry? Even if you manage to slow them down they will bring in bigger guns to stop you.
If anyone were to try and invade us, which I don\'t see happening any time soon, they would surely start by bombing the hell out of us first.
BTW, I hate the fact that Bush is in office. At the slightest provocation he is probably going to mobilize all of the military for war.
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it seems like they aren\'t even old enough to know how to share...how to hell are they old enough to carry a weapon?
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Are you trying to justify having a gun? We all know that farmers and bankers fought in the American revolution against the "mighty" British; but there is one main difference. Back then they all had pretty much the same gun. Of course there were slight differences but overall they were the same thing. Now do you think that you and some of your buddies with 9mm\'s will hold off a group of enemy infantry? Even if you manage to slow them down they will bring in bigger guns to stop you. - Gohan
No, I\'m not trying to justify my OWN right to possess a gun, I\'m trying to convey to you this nation\'s need to be armed in case we need to protect it. Now I never said individual citizens would have an advantage over troops.. but you can hardly argue that a town of 10,000 citizens (each armed with 9mms) would have no effect against a passing regiment of 500 troops. And would they come after you with bigger guns? What about the town they passed by a week earlier who\'s residents were shooting at them.. or what about the next three towns down the line that are fully armed and prepared for their advance? Then let\'s not forget their objective they still have to complete, not to mention the column of US armor in the vicinity.
I still don\'t think you guy\'s understand what I\'m talking about. This isn\'t me and my town against an invading army.. this is me and my nation, all of my fellow countrymen across the United States who would die to protect their homes and families. If all of Indiana has to die before even 1/10th of their military is destoryed.. then so be it.. because that missing 1/10th could be what turns the tides of war and allows America to emerge victorious.
And yes, they would bomb us first, but this country is enoumous and I doubt that once most of our military bases are hit they would have enough ordinace left to bomb each and every city, town, and village full of pissed off gun toting americans. Nor would they have the armor or troops to wage war against an entire nation for very long. Barring Nuclear Missles, there is no way a country could take over the US by force if we all stand up as one nation and fight them. Of course, if Nukes are launched.. all will be for nothing since MAD will leave more people fighting for food, shelter, and medical supplies than for land.
And why do you put "Mighty British" in quotations, as if mocking their military superiority durring the Reveloutionary war? ****, do you realize that Corwallace streight up kicked Washington\'s ass up and down the eastern seaboard when the war began? The Continental Army was on the run, and close to surrender, for most of the war. Let\'s not forget the Hessians who were ruthless master generals which lead Brittish troops in some of their most successful campaigns. It wasn\'t until our citizens had whittled down the Brittish army enough to allow the campaigns following Washington\'s crossing of the Potomic to be halfway successful. France wouldn\'t even lend AID to us, until Amercia had won a number of battles, let alone troops that didn\'t even show up until the war was in it\'s final stages.
It\'s not like we went out on the battle field and let the Redcoats know what the *uck was up. We barely won the Reveloutionary War, so please don\'t make light of what could very VERY easily been an almost utter defeat.
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Wow, I didn\'t belive any Americans thought that way - and I don\'t mean that as an insult because you made some interesting points.
I just wonder who you believe would actually invade the US within our lifetime?
I for one can\'t see anyone actually invading, I think an all out nuclear fallout is far more likely, and as such I wonder is worth it to allow Americans to have handguns with all the negative consequences socially just for the possibility that the US might be invaded?
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I just wonder who you believe would actually invade the US within our lifetime?" - Lavan
I don\'t know. It could be China, could be Russia, or could be Jamaica... but that\'s the point. To be prepared to the best of your ability for the unknown. Like I said earlier, every great empire or superpower in history has fallen. It\'s foolish to think it will never happen to us. Then again, it might be our own government we end up fighting against in some Neo-Civil War.
I think an all out nuclear fallout is far more likely, and as such I wonder is worth it to allow Americans to have handguns with all the negative consequences socially just for the possibility that the US might be invaded? - Lavan
You very well could be right. However I doubt the American government would risk MAD if another country tried to invade us, expecially if the opposing country had a nuclear arsenal of their own. If there is any risk of Mad going into effect, chances are it will start somewhere in the middle east.. possibly Pakistan vs. India or just a random terrorist bombing mistaken for a preemptive attack.
Yet we cannot allow ourselves to throw away this advantage just because we "think" the next war will be a Nuclear one. Why not throw away the right to worship... after all, faith can be a dangerous instrument for persecution and "justified" murder in irresponsible hands. The KKK and Neo-Nazi\'s are allowed to hold meetings and demonstrate in order to spread their hate filled words to weak minds despite it\'s message which, at one time, tore our nation apart... and still does. Of all the things that spread hatred, violence, and anarchy that are protected by our Constitutional freedoms.. at least guns can help us protect ourselves and our country should it be threatened.
Now, I\'m not saying we should pass guns out willy F*cking nilly. That\'s dangerous. What I am saying is that we need legislation and plans of action which will help keep guns out of the hands of children and irresponsible jackasses, yet still offer us the oppertunity to defend ourselves if need be. One solution would be small armorys, but keepin all the weapons in one place is a tactical disadvantage since those areas can be taken out or siezed. Perhaps we could have guns that are hooked up to the internet wirelessly, and some chip in the gun which will read the fingerprints of the one holding the gun and automatically lock up if that person isn\'t supposed to own a firearm... or if that particular gun is reported stolen. Who knows what the future holds, but I say we at least try to use technology to better our situation.. rather than just scapegoating to worsen it.
There needs to be a comprimise, and we (This country) aren\'t getting anywhere by pointing fingers and picking fights rather than discussing the real issues at hand. The biggest problem most people have against legislation is, I think, a fear that the Government may try to do to handguns what they did to Tommy Guns and Marijuana back in the 20\'s, which is tax the hell out of them and then "Convieniently" forget to print more stamps or creating anal retentive laws that effectively ban guns altogether. (I.E. Tommys Guns and MJ were illegal to own without a tax stamp.. to get a stamp you had to bring your TommyGun or MJ down to the County Clerks office.. upon arriving you\'d be arrested for possessing a TommyGun of MJ without a stamp.)
A better solution is out there, one that appreseased both the needs for domestic saftey and armourment. It\'s just a matter of finding it.
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how did the kid get the gun........careless parent.......parents fault........but the kid pulled the trigger.........they are both to blame........end of discussion.......
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Sonyfan,
I must say that you have some kind of imagination there buddy. Wow, please don\'t take offence to this but the way your talking makes it come off as though you\'ve been preoccupied with this stuff more times than not. I think you\'re going a little overboard, if not being a bit paranoid with this invasion stuff. The bottom line is this. It\'s not worth keeping guns around in society when so many deaths have been occuring. Children being shot down in school? What the f**k has happened to our morals? I just don\'t think it\'s worth keeping guns in preparation for an invasion that may never happen. There are other means to defense and I\'ll take my chance with our military.
Yes it may be true that a person can kill others by other means, but depending on the method it would not be as easy(ex: throwing someone out the window). Whether people want to believe it or not, killing is more or less synonymous with the word gun and people have become too damn desensitized to the simple mechanism of pulling the trigger while totally ignoring the consequences.
I know a person who is from Bermuda who recently moved to the states to go to school. She was appauled by how many people had access to guns. According to her, guns are not allowed in Bermuda and last time I checked that country has not been invaded.
Also the way you talk about invasion is as if foreign countries will just be able to walk up to our front door and kick it down. There are gadgets like radars, missles, gases etc.. and another country would be foolish to try anything without paying a price.
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Wow, this is totally unfamiliar to me (and most Europeans I believe). Guns? Invasions? I don\'t know anyone with a gun at all. I can\'t even imagine owning a gun; let alone using one.
If anyone was to go to war with the US they sure as hell wouldn\'t come marching in. They would send long distance missiles, nuclear weapons etc. I don\'t think anyone but the police / military should own guns. But that\'s just my opinion.