PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Jumpman on April 18, 2001, 01:46:01 PM
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I don\'t usually start topics in the main forum, but I think I may have something interesting and I won\'t have to write much! :D
So the question is: who do you think is the most undderated and overdated developer?
My choice for the most undderated developer: Game Arts! Many of you right now are probably wondering who GA is. They\'re arguably the best RPG developer out there. Has anyone played Grandia 2? This game was marvellous! It had by far the best battle system in an RPG. The story was pretty interesting too. But, these guys are just as good as Square IMO.
My choice for the most overrated developer- Naughty Dog. Their games are not very enjoyable. The Crash series was a pathetic attempt to have a mascot like Mario and it failed. All the Crash games are terrible IMO. Crash Team Racing was a miserable attempt to copy Mario Kart. NG forgets that gameplay sells the game, not some cheap ass rip-off of another game. Jason Rubin is a moron...(all of this was my opinion of course so no need for any rude comments on this)
I\'ll ask my question again-Who is the most underrated and overrated developer?
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Overrated-
Naughty Dog, they are good. But they aren\'t as godly as they think themselves. Jason Rubin needs to get over him self...
EA- They just piss me off. No innovation or originality, but they still think themselves the biggest player in the industry...
Square- they have lost their glamour, and it\'s time to step down. ALso, let FF die already...
Underrated-
Sega- by far. With them going third party, people will realize what they have been missing. It\'s all good, all the time with Sega.
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Whats-up Jumpman!!! Rarely you post topics! I disagree on Naughty Dog are Overrated, on PSone they are Kings next to some of the other PSone makers. I never think of Namco or Konami are overrated, they proved them self already. :D
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All Naughty Dog have made is the Crash series. 3 platformers, 1 cart racing, and 1 party game. They have all been done before.
I will say they had good graphics, but where was the originality. Other series? New franchises?
I really don\'t think they have proved themselves as big players yet.
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Underrated; Treasure.
Overrated; EA.
And I disagree with Ginko + Jumpman. Naughty Dog pushed the PSX to its limits regardless of how original or unoriginal Crash was. I think Crash was fun and challenging, at least the first one.
- dm
- so whose god will f\'cking save me now?
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Why is this in console debating? We\'re not debating consoles here in case you haven\'t noticed by now... this definitely belongs in the main forum.
*sigh*
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Originally posted by Jumpman
Why is this in console debating? We\'re not debating consoles here in case you haven\'t noticed by now... this definitely belongs in the main forum.
*sigh*
no its a debate about developers
so it belongs in here, anything debateable ends up here
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Overrated: I have to agree with Bob and say Nintendo.
There games are good, but they arnt That GREAT, and Im not talking about Rare and Silicon Knights.
Underrated: I would have to say Konami. I mean people know they are good and all, but not many people consider them to be one of the best, and if you look at thier games, they are at least in the top 5 best developers.
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Originally posted by ddaryl
no its a debate about developers
so it belongs in here, anything debateable ends up here
Well then, I guess the topic who made in the main forum( the sticky one) should be in here too since its a debate too.
But seriously, developers aren\'t consoles...
Anyhoo, I\'ll continue on with the topic.
More overrated developers
EA- I can\'t believe I didn\'t say these guys instead of Naughty Dog...I can\'t wait to see EA get their asseds wipped by Visual Concept!
Konami- I know a lot of you are probably wondering why I\'m putting Konami down but they\'re really not that great. The CastleVania series has sucked for a long time now, MGS was way too short for me, ZOE was a horrible game, ect. They\'re good, but not that good.
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Originally posted by Ginko
Overrated-
EA- They just piss me off. No innovation or originality, but they still think themselves the biggest player in the industry...
Square- they have lost their glamour, and it\'s time to step down. ALso, let FF die already...
FF die ha, whats going to stop it...
EA has the best football game out and dont try to say anything about 2k1 because its not even comparable
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My question: How are SEGA and Konami underrated? They are far from underrated. If they were people would not go crazy with every exclusive SEGA and Konami game announced.
Underrated:
Kronos- IMO Kronos has pushed the PSX to its limit and they will do amazing things on the PS2.
Enix- They are the top RPG maker IMO and they sell way more units than Square. They have the ability to make(or break) a console just by announcing support.
Factor 5- Have made a ton of excellent games. Need to be more established, I guess.
Overrated:
Square- Excellent developers but not much range. If it is not RPG related people tend to steer clear.
EA- Another developer that can be excellent when it wants to but generally falls in the average range.
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The most under-rated developer is [ or was ] Looking Glass
Why? It made perfect games - classics like Terra Nova, System Shock, Thief and System Shock 2 came from Looking Glass. Every one of those games were really done with love - and used lots of time and effort to make up all the new ideas to the games. What makes it underrated, is that the developer wasn\'t a success market-wise. Sure, it was the greatest game-producer of 90\'s, but the games were too different to sell well. And now there\'s no looking glass - Eidos shut it down. I can\'t understand - Eidos shut LG down, but funded Ion Storm\'s Daikatana, wich then flopped really bad.
I can\'t figure out any over-rated developers right now.
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I got to agree with darth yoda, looking glass is a great developer. Play thief and you\'ll agree with me. Enix is also underated (outside japan)
EA is pretty over rated, they make the same games every year (usually sports or another NFS upgrade) I think they should spend more money on the actual games than on their huge big office (have you seen it??)
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but ginko, really, whats going to stop FF games
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Read back Bozco, I never said someone was going to stop it. I just wrote they should let it die. ( I haven\'t enjoyed a FF since 3 for the SNES)
If FFX turns out to be a shallow story with amazing eye candy, I will never buy another FF game again. And hopefully they are changing the battle system, it\'s gotten old. They need to make it like Grandia 2\'s.
Also, I never thought a RPG could beat FF3. I was wrong. Skies of Arcadia is IMO, is the best RPG to date. I think that Skies 2 will be even better...
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Originally posted by Bozco
Originally posted by Ginko
Overrated-
EA- They just piss me off. No innovation or originality, but they still think themselves the biggest player in the industry...
Square- they have lost their glamour, and it\'s time to step down. ALso, let FF die already...
FF die ha, whats going to stop it...
EA has the best football game out and dont try to say anything about 2k1 because its not even comparable
I never compared the football games Bozco. You did. But anyway, EA has it\'s sports games and that\'s about it. They revamp the engine slightly, call it a new game and sell it. Where is the innovation and originality? New games?
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OVERRATED:
Rare: When Nintendo consoles had more developers competing on them, Rare was an afterthought. Their games rarely innovate, pun intended. Sometimes they break away from the mold and pull a PD or Conker, but did we really need a sequel to Banjo Kazooie? Could DK64 have been any more boring?
Sega: They do make some great games, but everyone\'s making them out to be worldbeaters now that they\'re third party. They need to make more games with depth, more Shenmues, less arcade.
EA: I only like Madden because GameDay is no longer superior to it.
And Finally...
989 Studios: People think they are utter crap. They are acutally far worse :mad:
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I think Naughty Dog is an under-rated developer...why?
1) - Crash 2 and Crash 3 are really good and original Platforms !
2) - Crash Team Racing is beautiful and I think it beats Mario Kart overall !
3) - They pushed the PSX hardware to the limits...and it was a privilege of few developers !
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Ginko i kinda agree that they should sort of let ff die but i dont knowhow you can say you didn\'t enjoy anything after ff3
I liked 7 and 9 alot. I thought they were done very well
I dont know about 4,5,6 because i havent played them yet
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datamage: Preach on, Brother. Treasure is simply on top of the food chain.
Jumpman: I agree that Konami is way overrated. I haven\'t been impressed with anything they\'ve put out post-16 Bit era.
On the whole, I agree with the majority and pick Square and EA as overrated companies who just milk the same franchise every year.
As for underrated, I\'d have to say Treasure.
On a side note, THE MOST OVERRATED COMPANY (not just 3rd Party) has got to be Working Designs. People give them waaaaaaaay too much credit. I can\'t believe there are idiots out there who think they developed games such as Lunar, Ray Storm, and Grandia.
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On a side note, THE MOST OVERRATED COMPANY (not just 3rd Party) has got to be Working Designs. People give them waaaaaaaay too much credit. I can\'t believe there are idiots out there who think they developed games such as Lunar, Ray Storm, and Grandia.
lol. I hate that. Working Delays just like to delay their translations and smack a pretty cover on it.
- dm
- so whose god will f\'cking save me now?
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well after hereing people diss Square - i guess they will go under my Underrated:
Sqaure: They have brought more than just FF - i mean look at:::
Parasite Eve/Chrono Trigger/Chrono Cross/Secret Of Mana/Bushido Blade/Vagarant Story/Brave Fencer Musashi
these are all awesome games and guess what they aren\'t all RPGs either and there are no FF\'s in that list - uh oh not Rpgs maybe Sqaure has talent - come on people - Sqaure has talent - they pushed every system they have been on to the limit and then pushed it up a noch more some how - you gotta give em credit they deserve
Also there are plenty of Developers that cash out on one Franchise too: Naughty Dog(Crash)/Nintendo(PoKemon/Mario)/Rare(Just Platformers and Goldeneye wannabes)...etc.
I have nothing against these developers - they make great games but they follow the sameways - its thw way they make money by cshing out on something that popular - hey boy bands did it the last couple of years:D
Overated -
Well here i have to go with Nintedo: Lately i have saw nothing that impresses me from them - I have no idea when the last time i played my 64 was - or bought a game for that matter
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They\'re still going strong so when you said let them die i basically thought you meant they would get beat out
They\'re never just going to die off or they wouldn\'t have made it this far already
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Overrated -
EA - buys out many companies, then kills them off (Origin, Looking Glass, etc!) Their gamers have become major crap as of late and I find no joy in playing a great sequel to a great game after EA buys out the company.
Square - Chrono Triggerr is one of the best RPGs of all time. After SNES, it was all vastly downhill. talk about your gigantic nosedives of quality. (I think their partnership with EA is one reason they suck so badly now)
Namco - namco\'s business model goes a little like this:
1)Find really popular arcade game by other company
2)copy idea and glamourize it.
3)Sequelize and crapify to high hell!
Virtua Fighter to Tekken
Silent Scope to Golgo 13
18 Wheeler to some gay trucking game
Virtua Racing (or Daytona) to Ridge Racer
the list goes on for several pages.
Underrated:
Sega - duh, the most masterpieces per square inch and hardly any of them sold over a million, nor over half a million. Talk about shunning a company. Ignorant experienced gamers will see what they have missed and BEG for Sega\'s forgiveness!
GameArts - Lunars, Gungriffons, Grandias, etc! Great developer that gets no respect (maybe cause their games usually come out for Sega systems first!!:))
Treasure - greatest dev. of shooters ever!! Radiant Silvergun, Sin and Punishment, Gunstar Heroes, Bangai-o, etc!!
did I mention Sega yet?
Eric Jacob
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Beasty,
I don\'t think it\'s fair to throw Namco in there. I see why some ppl might think that Square is overrated (even though I think they\'re great) but I would understand. Namco on the other hand;
They were the first to bring more than just \'ports\' to the home. Remember Tekken 2? Soul Edge? Tekken 3? Those games had oodles of extras. While other lazy developers (*SEGA included) just port a game and toss it home, Namco was busy adding extra goodies for us console gamers. I believe they were the first to start this trend, and later other companies got the idea that straight ports were no longer \'in.\' Not to mention Namco is quite capable of pushing a hardware to its limits (@ the time) Perhaps not the most innovative company, but not an overrated one, IMO.
* Before the DC, SEGA was guilty of doing very little to nothing extra for the home gamers. (on their ports) Capcom also suffered from this, as did others.
- dm
- so whose god will f\'cking save me now?
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Wow, long topic. Anyways, on with it...
Overrated
Electronic Arts. By the biggest producer in the world when it comes to quantity, and by far the worst developer in the world when it comes to quality. Sure, they strike it rich with a game or two here and there, but nothing from them EVER stretches a barrier or makes a new benchmark for the gaming industry. They are good at stretching their games thin and making billions of ports of one solid titles.
Capcom. Yah, I\'m an SF fan, but I am INCREDIBALLY sick of all the damn rehashes they do. Pick one goddamn console and produce great games for it while developing other great games for other consoles. This "this game is exclusive" crap they spew in early development pisses me off when I see it a year later on another platform. REC:V had to be the biggest screw job to Sega ever. I mean, sure, the DC got it first, but Capcom still pissed all over them once the PS2 became a hit. I\'m almost betting a billion dollars that RE:0 will hit the PS2/X-Box eventually just shortly after the NGC release.
Nintendo. I really like Nintendo, but my god, they cash in and exploit franchises moreso then Capcom and that\'s definitely pissing on Miyamoto\'s shoes as well. Miyamoto brings us some games that are definitely genre busters from time to time, but otherwise, what else do we get? More Mario Karts? More Smash Bros? What about another Party game to the already lush, and by lush I mean full of crap, and "done" genre? I like a lot of their frachises and a lot of their characters, but what I would give for a brand new mascot featured in a few games that touch moreso on the mature audience.
Underated
Treasure. If I could give Treasure the man-power EA has and mix that with the creativity and concentration on quality in that company, we\'d have about 20 titles every year that would be must haves for every console owner. Instead, they get shafted and their creativity is never realised thanks to poor sales. it\'s sad how the good ones are neglected.
Namco. The RR series and the Tekken series sell very well, but Ace Combat, Klonoa, Soul Calibur, and many other arcade titles of theirs get left in the dust. I guess brand names sell, but man, those games I mentioned that don\'t sell well are mammot hits. In fact, all 3 of those titles have recieved scores of no less then 9\'s from IGN\'s reviews and that has to say something about their quality. Not even the mighty Tekken or RR series can touch or compete with those numbers.
Sony. Look, I liked Legend of Dragoon, Ape Escape, and their early sports titles before they formed 989 Studios, which was, in my opinion, a BIG mistake. I can remember the early Gameday when the PSX first came out and how blown away I was. It was totally awesome and Ape Escape still reminds me that Sony can be innovative as well, even in a title aimed at the younger audiences. I can\'t wait for Ape Escape 2 and I look forward to Sky Gunner as well. Lets hope that they can 989 once and for all and bring back that Sony brand name once again.
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If Nintendo is overrated then why have so many developers copied them? I swear Nintendo is the most copied company is the gaming industry ever.
I shall also remind everyone that Nintendo has more than one internal development team. Besides EAD, Nintendo has HAL and Intelligent Systems. HAL is the crappy developer who puts out these lame Maroi Party and Pokemon games. Most of you are calling them overrated because of them. Intelligent Systems was extremely awesome at one point(making the Metroid games), but then their main man died and they\'ve been on the rebound from that. Right now they\'re back on track( Paper Mario was a turn around for them).
EAD can\'t be overrated since their games are always copied. They revolutionized 2D and 3D gaming. If Super Mario 64 never existed then 3D platformig would suck.
So when you say Nintendo is overrated then keep in mind that Miyamoto and EAD have no part in these Mario Party and Pokemon games.
posted by Bobs_Hardware
wow, after seeing these people saying square are overratede, i have to say that they are underrated (like someone eralier)
i love their early Snes works, but FF7 is easily the best final fantasy in the series, and FF9 competes with FF6.
my fav. games of all time are FF7, Chrono Trigger, FF6, FF9. but they arent just final fantasy, they have made some of the best games ever in other genres. Tobal 2 is critically heralded as one of the best if not the best fighting game ever by many critics, same goes for ehrgeiz, Bushido Blade, their fighters have always been innovative. Take a look at their RPGs, Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger/cross, Xenogears, Vagrant Story, Secret of Mana etc.. some other games that are great, Einhaner, Final Fantasy Tactics
its all good
Heh...
All the people who own multiple consoles think Square is overrated....
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I think most people have something against Square because right now they are exclusive.
Go to MSXBox, and everyone will say , "Oh, square sucks."
If they find out a Square game is coming to XBox, "Oh, Square rocks."
Its mostly just "sour Grapes" in my opinion.
Nintendo is EXTREMELY overrated.
What was the last game they made that was Completely Revolutionary.
They made Mario 64, and um....
Hmm?
What else?
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If Square wasn\'t overrated, why would people take the liberty of buying Bouncer without renting first? OR automatically assume FFX is gonna be god ina game while still shunning people when they assume a game will be good on another system?
they can put out good graphics, yes. (this is a direct knock)
Eric Jacob
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Are you telling my that Final Fantasy Tactics was a bad game?
How about XenoGears?
I think square has made maybe 4 bad games in the past 4 years, out of a whole lot.
I think thats a good record.
So Bouncer was bad.
8 out of the 9 Final Fantasy\'s were good.
I think that is a good record to make an assumption that the next one will live up to expectations.
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Originally posted by Faithdies
Are you telling my that Final Fantasy Tactics was a bad game?
How about XenoGears?
I think square has made maybe 4 bad games in the past 4 years, out of a whole lot.
I think thats a good record.
So Bouncer was bad.
8 out of the 9 Final Fantasy\'s were good.
I think that is a good record to make an assumption that the next one will live up to expectations.
which out of the 9 didnt you like
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Originally posted by Bozco
which out of the 9 didnt you like
well most people didn\'t like FF8 but imo it was better than a lot of RPGs out there at the time - but it just didn\'t have the spark that made the others real good
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No, Xenogears is an excellent title, same as Tactics, but the guy behind both I believe now works for Namco. XenoSaga is a semi-sequel I believe coming out next year.
I thoguht 9 was pure crap, as was 8. 7 wasn\'t bad, and probably the second best RPG on PSX. 6 stands as kind, with 4 and then 5 right behind it.
You played Racing Lagoon? crap. Driving Emotion Type- S###? crap. Bouncer? crap Threads of Fate, I dont know even what to say on this one! Chocobo Racing? crizap!
Square = overrated!
(this does not mean that they can still make great games, they can, its jus tthat they havent been making nearly as many as they should for being on such a high plateau.
Eric Jacob
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Over-Rated
- Squaresoft: Sure they make some classic RPGs, but you know a company is over-rated when somebody will buy a game published by them (Bouncer was not developed by Square) just because they see the familiar logo. Although their recent Final Fantasy IX was quite impressive, it still doesn\'t compete on the same level as their earlier works. Whenever Square EA strays from the RPG genre, we get stuck with such titles as Chocobo Dungeon and Chocobo Racing. The truth is, that if Squaresoft could develop a revolutionary title that incorporated a new system/genre, then I wouldn\'t put them in this list. I am in no way saying that Squaresoft makes bad games, just that some gamers think a little too highly of them.
- EA: I can play NHL 94\' and have the same gaming experience I get with NHL 99\'. That\'s the simple truth. I see no point in buying the "update" to each EA Sports game each year, when they are all very similar. Unless your an avid sports fan who likes to have their teams and players updated, then there\'s no point. Also, Electronic Arts thinks too highly of themselves and I find them, at times, very ****y. Sure they publish some top-notch titles at times, but they don\'t usually develop those great titles. Some fun gaming, but a bit of repetitivness on their part.
Under-Rated
- Treasure: The name says almost everything. This developer makes some great shooter games that can\'t be missed. Their latest release, Sin and Punishment for the N64, was unfortunately not released in North America, but it got great reviews from Famitsu. This little "treasure" of a developer does not get enough credit here in North America.
- Enix: Let me start off by saying, that when I mention Enix, I am saying that they are under-rated outside of Japan. The Dragon Warrior/Quest series never really took off here, despite Nintendo\'s constant deals and coverage in their magazine, Nintendo Power. In fact, back when the first game came out in North America, Nintendo actually gave out a free copy of Dragon Warrior to people who subscribed to their magazine that year. A great promotion that eventually lead to the release of the next three in the series. Since then, nothing has hapenned. Thankfully, in 2000, partly due to the success of Dragon Warrior Monsters, Enix of America re-opened its offices. You can now find the Dragon Warrior I & II re-make for Game Boy Color. DWIII is also being re-released this summer. Among other games, is also the extremely under-rated Terranigma.
- Sega: Nobody at my school has heard of Shenmue, Jet Grind Radio, or Phantasy Star, excluding a few hardcore gamers. Although this is partly Sega\'s fault for having no advertisement on television, it is rather sad to see such classics being unheard of. Sega, during the 2000 year, has made some truly innovative titles that have been dismissed as... Well, no one\'s heard of them. The thing that really annoys me, is that some say "Sega games suck" and yet when the Sega games for PS2, Gamecube, and X-Box are released, I\'m sure many will be loving them.
Others
The following is just comments developed from other posts and what I think of certain developers.
Firstly, HAL Laboratories, an internal studio of Nintendo, has been releasing lots of crap lately. The N64 Pokemon titles and Mario Party sequels in particular. The truth is that the first Mario Party was very original (and garnered some copies like Crash Bash and Sonic Shuffle), but there was no need for two sequels only months later. And they could have at least made an entertaining experience for the N64 Pokemon titles. Maybe a 3D RPG or something. Hopefully we\'ll see one for Gamecube that can actually be played. HAL has also made the Earthbound series though, but cancelled Mother 3, which is rumoured to be on the "waiting" list for Gamecube.
Nintendo (as a whole) is neither under-rated or over-rated in my books. The Legend of Zelda series for the N64 was a great transition from 2D to 3D, and I had a great time with both Ocarina of Time and Majora\'s Mask. Also, Super Mario 64 was anything but exceptional. And for those who think Nintendo doesn\'t make sports games, they actually do. Although they haven\'t made many, here\'s a few: 1080 Snowboarding, Major League Baseball Featuring Ken Griffey Jr., and Waverace.
Konami makes some great games, but aren\'t under-rated. Silent Hill, Metal Gear Solid, Castlevania, and Goemon have all been solid releases and have been entertaining. Some new franchises would be welcome, and some great hits like Symphony of the Night should be re-visited.
SCEA or Sony... I\'m very dissapointed with what they\'ve offered so far. In terms of publishing, they\'ve released some good stuff, but in terms of developing... well. Legend of Dragoon was average in my books, as was Fantavision (which isn\'t as bad as everyone thinks it is). There\'s some promising titles coming out, but there\'s no guarantee they\'ll be good. The reviews for the highly-anticipated Dark Cloud were mediocre from Famitsu. We\'ll see as the year rolls by.
Rare\'s been getting lazy recently. They released top quality games at the beginning-to-middle of the N64s lifetime, but have now been bringing out sequels. There\'s no doubt that the sequels are amazing and greater (in some respects) to the originals, but we need some new gameplay experiences. Blast Corps, Banjo-Kazooie, Goldeneye, and... I guess, Killer Instinct Gold (although the SNES KI was a little better) have had great runs... now give us something else!
Capcom, Capcom, Capcom. Which also translates into Vs. Vs. Vs. You\'d think that Mega Man would be tired of fighting both Marvel and SNK by now, let alone his own adventures. And the zombies need to lie in their grave for a little longer before being re-visited for the eventual Resident Evil 7. They\'re all still great games, but something new has to come out. Once again, neither over-rated nor under-rated.
I\'d love to have time to talk about Namco, Acclaim, Game Arts, and the rest, but this is enough.
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Originally posted by Sublimesjg
well most people didn\'t like FF8 but imo it was better than a lot of RPGs out there at the time - but it just didn\'t have the spark that made the others real good
thats the one i didnt like,i was expecting a lot after playing 7
and Saotome i wouldnt go as far as to say Shenmue was a classic
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Originally posted by Bozco
thats the one i didnt like,i was expecting a lot after playing 7
and Saotome i wouldnt go as far as to say Shenmue was a classic
It depends how you look at it. In a way it will sort of be a classic, because it was a new type of game. Sure it\'s rather boring at parts, but it still was ingenious and a great memory to have. Hopefully Shenmue 2 will deliver more mini-games and stuff to pass the time between events.
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I thoguht 9 was pure crap
Just curious, why did you think this? I thought 9 was the best out of the ones on PSX. Definitely reminiscent of the old FF\'s.
- dm
- so whose god will f\'cking save me now?
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I did like how 9 was a throw back to the good ole non-futuristic FF days. That part I liked. And the class system returning was cool. But the same old play tactics (must use summons mad crazy!) were back.
Bozco - I would consider Shenmue a classic. So would basicallyt anybody with PATIENTCE, UNDERSTANDING, TIME, and KNOWLEDGE of what a good game should be. Sure the voiceovers are bad, and it an get slow at parts (thats why they have the arcade!) but all around it is one of the best games I have played that ws released in the last 3 years.
Eric Jacob
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Beasty,
Ah well to each his own.. I really didn\'t rely on too many summons in IX. I loved VII and I think I enjoyed IX a tad more. (though I hate VIII)
- dm
- so whose god will f\'cking save me now?
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So it seems to go down like this....
The Overall Opinion...
Square/EA - Most Overrated
Treasure/Sega - Most Underrated
Interesting...
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datamage: While Namco deserves praise for pushing the console when porting, plus adding all the extras, they are overrated in the fact that they mask sequels w/ old content and try to pass it as new.
Ex: Almost all the sub-bosses in the Tekken series, the supposedly new characters in Tekken 3/Tag, and supposedly new bosses.
Capcom. Yah, I\'m an SF fan, but I am INCREDIBALLY sick of all the damn rehashes they do. Pick one goddamn console and produce great games for it while developing other great games for other consoles. This "this game is exclusive" crap they spew in early development pisses me off when I see it a year later on another platform. REC:V had to be the biggest screw job to Sega ever. I mean, sure, the DC got it first, but Capcom still pissed all over them once the PS2 became a hit. I\'m almost betting a billion dollars that RE:0 will hit the PS2/X-Box eventually just shortly after the NGC release.
I agree. Capcom disappointed me when they totally screwed Sega over with RE C:V. Whatever happened to the DC version of Complete?
I think most people have something against Square because right now they are exclusive.
Go to MSXBox, and everyone will say , "Oh, square sucks."
If they find out a Square game is coming to XBox, "Oh, Square rocks."
Its mostly just "sour Grapes" in my opinion.
That sounds eerily similar to when Sega was still a 1st party. Weren\'t we hearing how Sega sucks and all but now that Sega is Sony\'s bosom buddy, they rock? Sounds like sour grapes, too.
Saotome/Altered Beast: Shenmue is one of the greatest experiences (I don\'t call this a game :D) ever.
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Ex: Almost all the sub-bosses in the Tekken series, the supposedly new characters in Tekken 3/Tag, and supposedly new bosses.
Xiayou and Eddy are 2 new characters that were introduced in Tekken 3. Nowhere does Namco say that there are new characters in Tekken Tag.
* Taken from the back of the box;
"34 total characters from Tekken, Tekken 2, and Tekken 3."
Tekken Tag was merely an upgrade to Tekken 3 w/a few extras, tag mode, tweaks, and all characters from the previous Tekkens. So I don\'t see your logic regarding Tekken.
- dm
- so whose god will f\'cking save me now?
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Originally posted by datamage
Xiayou and Eddy are 2 new characters that were introduced in Tekken 3. Nowhere does Namco say that there are new characters in Tekken Tag.
* Taken from the back of the box;
"34 total characters from Tekken, Tekken 2, and Tekken 3."
Tekken Tag was merely an upgrade to Tekken 3 w/a few extras, tag mode, tweaks, and all characters from the previous Tekkens. So I don\'t see your logic regarding Tekken.
- dm
- so whose god will f\'cking save me now?
Yes, Xiaoyiu and Eddy are new but what about Ogre, Bryan, Gun Jack, Julia, Jin.......haven\'t we seen these characters before???
Tekken 2: Namco boasts 23 (?) characters, half of which are sub-bosses. Anna, Lee, Armor King, Alex/Roger, Kunimitsu....haven\'t we seen these characters before?
I\'ll take back what I said about Tekken Tag, though.
But, why call these characters new when they\'re just new-looking, with some new moves?
For this, I think people give Namco too much credit. Tekken is still more appealing than Virtua Fighter, though. Plus, Time Crisis 2 totally rocks.
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Ashford,
I understand what you\'re saying. Don\'t get me wrong I don\'t think Tekken is the king of fighers. I myself prefer VF. But in your own statement;
Tekken 2: Namco boasts 23 (?) characters, half of which are sub-bosses. Anna, Lee, Armor King, Alex/Roger, Kunimitsu....haven\'t we seen these characters before?
It doesn\'t say anything about new characters. I used to be a huge Tekken fan, but sorta lost it for Tekken.. So I kinda forgot which characters were new and what Namco introduced in each Tekken. I agree that Namco rehashes their games, but in their defense @ least most of the rehashes are good and with plenty of extras unlike Capcom. Capcom doesn\'t seem to stop, and their announcement of SNK VS Capcom Complete or whatever the hell its called pissed me off. They have to fix a game that should have been fine to begin with. Anyway I\'ll stop rambling before I start a whole \'nother topic, if it\'s not too late.
- dm
- so whose god will f\'cking save me now?
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I concur, VF is the greatest 3D fighter series ever!
and Street Fighter 3:3 is the greatest 2D fighter ever
Eric Jacob
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Due to popular opinion I\'d say that EA is now underated... when we started it was overated, but now it has become the oposite. I also would like to say, lot\'s of people put Square and EA on the same side, hmmm... this is no suprise to me... being that they both basically the same company, seriously, just go to EA\'s site, my proof it there. Anyway my opinions...
Underated:
EA/Square - When the Final Fantasy series dies let me know... ok here is an anology... take for instance, the Soprano\'s great TV show right? (work with me I know not everyone likes it) If you like it you watch it every week. Are you going to watch 9 episodes and say, eh... same show everytime. Why don\'t they come up with a new plot, new name, or do something comepletely different? Here\'s a better question, why would you fix something that isn\'t broken. Simple... you can\'t. There is nothing wrong with Final Fantasy, what if they changed the battle system and everyone hated it, they would feel like idiots. So bash it all you want, I believe they are underated.
Sierra - They pop-up once and a while, only when a new half-life mod is coming out, but they have other great games. Classic games like King\'s Quest(8 of them and 1 remake), Space Quest (6 and a remake I think), Police Quest (now popular SWAT series). And what about Quest for Glory? Excellent Adventure and FPS games and no one even cares.
Overated:
Sega - Big time overated company, Sonic was great, for Genesis. I hated when they put it in a 3D world, and now being a developer they are supposedly the ones who make and break the console, Who the **** cares about one developer? It\'s great in all, but do they really make the entire system, geez maybe if they were a better developer they would have had the hardware/financial issues they had.(ooooh music)
Blizzard - Again, I hate saying this because my beloved Starcraft is my prized possesion, but frankly all there other games suck... Diablo and Diablo II, 1) could tell the difference, 2) Like watching paint dry, 3) for more check my post in rants and raves. Warcraft, a low quality starcraft that has no place on a PC, I mean what the hell is going on, you can\'t understand them, all you here is "Zugg-Zugg". WTF is that supposed to mean?
Okay, long but I think I make my point.
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I am the most overrated developer out there
I have no credits to my name but I rule !!!!!!!!!!
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Originally posted by "The One" Billy Gunn
Underated:
EA/Square - When the Final Fantasy series dies let me know... ok here is an anology... take for instance, the Soprano\'s great TV show right? (work with me I know not everyone likes it) If you like it you watch it every week. Are you going to watch 9 episodes and say, eh... same show everytime. Why don\'t they come up with a new plot, new name, or do something comepletely different? Here\'s a better question, why would you fix something that isn\'t broken. Simple... you can\'t. There is nothing wrong with Final Fantasy, what if they changed the battle system and everyone hated it, they would feel like idiots. So bash it all you want, I believe they are underated.
Bad Analogy. The plot is different for every episode. How about this. What if every episode of the Sopranos used the same camera angles in the same order for every episode but added new FX. How about if the plot was pretty much the same every episode but there was a new cast. If this were to happen people would never watch the Sopranos get what I am saying? I know Square is not the only one doing this *cough*NINTENDO*cough* but FF is pretty much what they are known for. So it kind of makes them a one trick pony. Nintendo on the other hand has tons of Franchises to squeeze dry and a couple sitting on the bench.
BTW, Does anyone else expect Sonic to show up in some for in the next Mario game? Not necessarily as an actual character with which to interact, but as maybe an Ad in the distance. That would be pretty kool.
PEACE, LOVE, and SOOOOOOUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Er... Gohan... your Sopranos analogy is slightly off. Sopranos doesn\'t have gameplay like FF and Nintendo games have. After all, these franchises wouldn\'t be selling so much if it werent\' for the tried and true gameplay that each game in that series has.
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Originally posted by ElAsesino
Er... Gohan... your Sopranos analogy is slightly off. Sopranos doesn\'t have gameplay like FF and Nintendo games have. After all, these franchises wouldn\'t be selling so much if it werent\' for the tried and true gameplay that each game in that series has.
WHOA...Slow down cub scout. I was just correcting someone else\'s Soprano analogy.
BTW, I don\'t see how my analogy could be off. At least not by the standards that you give.
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Umm... Gohan I hate to break it to you... but if you\'ve played all 3 the story lines are pretty much original for each, camera angles are random, and like I said battle system is not the greatest but could be worse. I wouldn\'t mess with games who get 9+ from IGN.com. I\'ll quote myself again, If it aint broke, don\'t fix it!
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Blizzard - Again, I hate saying this because my beloved Starcraft is my prized possesion, but frankly all there other games suck... Diablo and Diablo II, 1) could tell the difference, 2) Like watching paint dry, 3) for more check my post in rants and raves. Warcraft, a low quality starcraft that has no place on a PC, I mean what the hell is going on, you can\'t understand them, all you here is "Zugg-Zugg". WTF is that supposed to mean?
Okay, long but I think I make my point.
Diablo and Diablo II were great games. While Diablo II let me down, it\'s still a good game. And if it wasn\'t for Warcraft, Starcraft wouldn\'t exist. A low-quality Starcraft? You\'re going to compare a game that was made much later than Warcraft and Warcraft II? That makes sense. Wait till WC3 comes out. Blizzard is one of the top-notch PC developers that exist, IMO. Ah well. I guess you were new to RTS games and you played Starcraft prior to the Warcraft series.
- dm
- so whose god will f\'cking save me now?
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Originally posted by "The One" Billy Gunn
Umm... Gohan I hate to break it to you... but if you\'ve played all 3 the story lines are pretty much original for each, camera angles are random, and like I said battle system is not the greatest but could be worse. I wouldn\'t mess with games who get 9+ from IGN.com. I\'ll quote myself again, If it aint broke, don\'t fix it!
Dayum man. I was just trying to make your analogy more relevant to the situation. I love FF but I think your analogy was garbage.
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Originally posted by "The One" Billy Gunn
Umm... Gohan I hate to break it to you... but if you\'ve played all 3 the story lines are pretty much original for each, camera angles are random, and like I said battle system is not the greatest but could be worse. I wouldn\'t mess with games who get 9+ from IGN.com. I\'ll quote myself again, If it aint broke, don\'t fix it!
What have you\'ve been smokin\' Billy? I know that WWF doesn\'t let you wrestle much but that\'s no reason to make wild assumptions. ;)
I\'ll say this once so everyone listen- the gameplay in the FF series has always sucked( with the exception of 4/6 because Nintendo helped with it ;)). Its true Billy. If they didn\'t have such magnificant story-lines then the FF series would be dead. That\'s almost starting to happen...
The last two FF games were extremely boring. Square needs to do something about their gameplay. They excell at writing great story-lines but that isn\'t enough for me. If an RPG has bad gameplay then it usually has no replay value since you already know what will happen and games that have no replay vaule don\'t usually get my purchase.
To make me enjoy the FF series again, I think Square should eliminate random battles and steal Grandia 2\'s battle system( boy did that rock). Then FF will be awesome...
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I\'ll say this once so everyone listen- the gameplay in the FF series has always sucked( with the exception of 4/6 because Nintendo helped with it
I\'ll say this a couple of times so people get the idea.
Opinion. Opinion. Opinion. Opinion. Opinion. Get the idea?
For you the last two FF\'s were boring. I loved IX and had a total blast with it. And since when did Nintendo help with those FF\'s? BTW, I think you should go back and play IV, it\'s quite primitive.
- dm
- so whose god will f\'cking save me now?
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Originally posted by datamage
I\'ll say this a couple of times so people get the idea.
Opinion. Opinion. Opinion. Opinion. Opinion. Get the idea?
For you the last two FF\'s were boring. I loved IX and had a total blast with it. And since when did Nintendo help with those FF\'s? BTW, I think you should go back and play IV, it\'s quite primitive.
- dm
- so whose god will f\'cking save me now?
Yes yes yes I am very aware of the whole " opinion not fact" bit. I noticed that I was kind of expressing my post as factual information for awhile then I started to use the word "I" near the end of it. Don\'t worry, I usually reinforce that rule( but now I\'m too tired to care :p) .
Anyhoo, I said that I enjoyed FFIV(which is also FFXI is Japan). It had something different to it that make it some what better, can you say, Nintendo\'s help? They did help them make FFIV. That\'s probably why it stands out the most in the FF series( for the people who played every game, new PSX owners don\'t count). Nintendo and Square also made "Super Mario RPG" together( that game had superb gameplay, second best in my book). Then Square ****ed Nintendo by exclusively developing for Sony only...or did Nintendo **** them? ...
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It was nintendo\'s own fault, Square was wanted to make games for one system, Nintendo was greedy and told Square to **** off, and they did. Nintendo was the one who suffered, not Square. As you can see all the Final Fantasies sold over a million copys within a year of they\'re release. Nintendo\'s loss, not Squares. Nintendo ****ed themselves.
BTW, what is Grandia 2\'s battle system like? I never played it.
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Originally posted by "The One" Billy Gunn
It was nintendo\'s own fault, Square was wanted to make games for one system, Nintendo was greedy and told Square to **** off, and they did. Nintendo was the one who suffered, not Square. As you can see all the Final Fantasies sold over a million copys within a year of they\'re release. Nintendo\'s loss, not Squares. Nintendo ****ed themselves.
Actually Square dissed Nintendo, which is why Yamauchi hates them so much. They were making FF7 for N64. They had tech demos and every thing(I can find them if you want) and the next thing you know it is showing up on the PSX. Square couldn\'t resist the storage capacity of CDs and the graphical capabilities of the PSX.
Originally posted by "The One" Billy Gunn
BTW, what is Grandia 2\'s battle system like? I never played it.
Basically there are no random battles. You can go through the whole game without fighting anyone but bosses and major enemies(Not that it would be possible). All of the enemimes are on the screen and you can fight them or run away. Pretty cool. THe battle system is kind of hard to explain(for me at least) but it is really cool. If you time attacks right you can counter an enemies attack or cancel it all together. You have to actually play it to fully understand.
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Actually Square dissed Nintendo, which is why Yamauchi hates them so much. They were making FF7 for N64. They had tech demos and every thing(I can find them if you want) and the next thing you know it is showing up on the PSX. Square couldn\'t resist the storage capacity of CDs and the graphical capabilities of the PSX.
I don\'t know who dissed who, but the tech demo wasn\'t for the N64. Everyone thought it was, but it turned out to be a demo Square was making on a SGI workstation. Since they were moving to 3D, they wanted their developers to get a grasp of it. That tech demo still looks nice, way above what the N64 is capable of. :) Whether Square told Nintendo to f*ck off, or vice-versa, I don\'t know. Either way, Square isn\'t suffering.
- dm
- so whose god will f\'cking save me now?
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datamage: Ok, scratch the word new. Change it to inflated. Namco inflates the character count by adding sub-bosses that are just old characters with new looks and names.
Blizzard - Again, I hate saying this because my beloved Starcraft is my prized possesion, but frankly all there other games suck... Diablo and Diablo II, 1) could tell the difference, 2) Like watching paint dry, 3) for more check my post in rants and raves. Warcraft, a low quality starcraft that has no place on a PC, I mean what the hell is going on, you can\'t understand them, all you here is "Zugg-Zugg". WTF is that supposed to mean?
Before you get into a debate, at least know what you\'re talking about.
How old are you? Do you think Starcraft paved the way for RTS games? Let me guess, you also think gaming started with Sony. Warcraft a low quality Starcraft??? Gee, since when did Blizzard create Starcraft first, with the Pentium 2\'s in full swing, then revert back to pre-Pentium days to create Warcraft?
Can\'t understand Orcs when they speak? Well, gosh darn it, I guess we all skipped Zerg/Protoss Lingo 101 and you didn\'t since you seem to understand just what the hell "En Taro, Adun" and assorted Zerg screeches and shrieks and Protoss dialects mean.
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Originally posted by datamage
I don\'t know who dissed who, but the tech demo wasn\'t for the N64. Everyone thought it was, but it turned out to be a demo Square was making on a SGI workstation. Since they were moving to 3D, they wanted their developers to get a grasp of it. That tech demo still looks nice, way above what the N64 is capable of. :) Whether Square told Nintendo to f*ck off, or vice-versa, I don\'t know. Either way, Square isn\'t suffering.
I stand corrected.
BTW, nice pic
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Isn\'t that Demitri from Darkstalkers?
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datamage: Ok, scratch the word new. Change it to inflated. Namco inflates the character count by adding sub-bosses that are just old characters with new looks and names.
I won\'t argue that. Not to mention half the characters play alike.
BTW, nice pic
Thank you. :)
Isn\'t that Demitri from Darkstalkers?
Yup! ;)
- dm
- the trick is to keep breathing.