PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: kopking on April 19, 2001, 06:33:35 AM
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im not a sci fi geek, but i thought about it when watching star wars. Earth is small planet with loads of different languages, but in the films say the planet "artilla" every one speaks "artillian" you know just one languge for a whole god damn planet, if our small world has got lot of different ones,with different accents, how come a different planet has one language and there accents are all the same, if there was a planet some parts in the past would not be able to be got to by certain people, e.g huge ocean in between countries, so the likelyhood of them every begining to evolve and talk the same as people hundreds of miles apart and never met or are gonna meet is very unlikely
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Ever noticed that most of the aliens in star teck have American Accents ?
Strange how a BORG Queen can sound as if see comes from the US.
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I also find it interesting that in Star Trek every alien speaks English, and almost every alien is just a variation on human skin colour, texture, and throw in a forehead or nose variation.
We speak Earthian by the way.
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Well in Star Trek they have the universal translator.But the main reason for this is that most people would find it difficult to watch a show where no one spoke the same language.
And Star Trek does have Klingon which is a complete languge (I have the Klingon dictonary).Yes I\'m a HARDCORE Trekkie and I\'m damn proud of ot :D
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Ever notice that in the Star Wars movies, most of the Imperial commanders appear to be English? It\'s funny that from an American perspective Britain = Evil.
Oh yeah Kopking: Who\'s to say that the people living on all those with one-language planets actually evolved there? Maybe those are colonized planets, and all the colonists came from the same population on the homeworld. If humans colonized any planets, I\'d say it\'s a fair guess that the entire planet would end up speaking some variation of English.
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good point coredweller, but to go to a planet that is liveable will have no life on it what so ever, also if they colonized, you would expect other species to help colonize it. please note this thread was meant to be taken lightly so please dont take offence or start getting in heated debate about it
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Originally posted by nO-One
Well in Star Trek they have the universal translator.But the main reason for this is that most people would find it difficult to watch a show where no one spoke the same language.
And Star Trek does have Klingon which is a complete languge (I have the Klingon dictonary).Yes I\'m a HARDCORE Trekkie and I\'m damn proud of ot :D
*cough* NERD *cough* :D
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Soon us nerds will rule the world,and we shall imprison all those sports jocks and hip people who made fun of us.Now if you will excuse me I need to try on my new Vulcan ears ;)
(The sad thing is,while I don\'t have the ears I do have a Starfleet uniform)
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Originally posted by nO-One
Soon us nerds will rule the world,and we shall imprison all those sports jocks and hip people who made fun of us.Now if you will excuse me I need to try on my new Vulcan ears ;)
(The sad thing is,while I don\'t have the ears I do have a Starfleet uniform)
wel you could get some scissors and make some ears - it might hurt a little though
sad thing is people actually have done that - dang that has to hurt
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Yes there are people in the world that are even stranger than I.
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Some other Sci fi films and cartoons are even funnier.Many times when an alien invades earth it happens to know english.And even tranformers used english.They could communicate with humans from day one using normal English.
It seems English isnt just an international language.Its universal :)
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And it\'s very funny, that in Hollywood-alien-blast-films the aliens always attack America.
Independence day is one example - at the Independence Day of AMERICA ( how are they supposed to know anyway? ) they attack the biggest cities of AMERICA - and it\'s AMERICAN who saves the world in the end.
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ALWAYS AMERICA!!!AMERICA AMERICA!!!!WHY DONT THEY EVER INCLUDE CYPRUS?:p
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Because we have the second hottest women on earth, right behind Spain... and no alien would attack Spain, as hot women are all they have:D
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Originally posted by Darth Joyda
And it\'s very funny, that in Hollywood-alien-blast-films the aliens always attack America.
Independence day is one example - at the Independence Day of AMERICA ( how are they supposed to know anyway? ) they attack the biggest cities of AMERICA - and it\'s AMERICAN who saves the world in the end.
They attacked Big cities all over the world. It just happened to be on July 4(US Independance Day) that we decided to strike back. Do you not remember the illmatic blast that they showed in France?
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I even wrote a highly succesful essay on that topic! (this is not it, however :))
Every time aliens attack they come to america first. And it\'s always america who saves the rest of the world; like in Independence Day, when they say something like "now we know how to beat them. Spread the word." yep, and everyone is united in celebration. OF COURSE the other countries couldn\'t have figured it out for themselves. They (we) need the superior culture of the USA. Its language is so superior that even aliens from distant galaxies speak it. But naturally they have strange & unsual accents, because weird creatures (such as \'foreigners\' - from america\'s point of view, aliens & mutants) speak in an accent unlike the american one.
U can see this in other media too - if someone doesn\'t speak in an american accent, he is considered "funny" and "amusing". Especially if he sounds like a person from India. In fact, the only acceptable accent in this world is american. If you sound British you\'re probably evil. If you sound european you\'re "cute" or something like that.
Speaking of languages, I think it\'s unfair for americans to assume that everyone can speak their language, that they don\'t have to learn any others. It should be mandatory for EVERYONE on this planet to learn at least one other language. Even if your mother tongue happens to be the most precious language in the world, english.
Now it probably sounds like I hate America & English. That\'s not the truth. I\'ve been there many, many times and loved it. English is my favorite language. I just like to think about things like these.
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The problem with american culture is that they HAVE TO BE THE BEST. They HAVE TO WIN.
Independance day. The aliens are attacking the whole world destroying everything. Americans plant the virus, destroy the mother ship, and figure out how to destroy the little ones... "get on the horn to the rest of the world and tell them how to bring the SOBs down!"
U571 - Based on a true story. It really was one of the turning points in the war. They were very true to the truth, too. Oh, except that in the war, the sub wasnt\' AMERICAN, it was BRITISH. sigh.
(non movie) - Canada\'s soft lumber export (COVERED UNDER FREE TRADE). When challenged by the US (cause they can\'t make lumber as cheaply as we can) 2 independant boards held up the free trade agreement, saying that even though American lumber companies had a hard time competing, the US couldn\'t punish our lumber companies, they would have to subsidize theirs (or such). So, the US ignored them, and our "free trade" agreement, and slapped a 50% duty on importing soft lumber from Canada. So much for equality and free trade, even with their biggest trade partner (by far).
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What bugged me the most about ID.4 was that they just created a virus for a alien computer,using some strange alien OS with out a problem.Then they had no problem interfacing with the alien comp.How convinient that the aliens a used TCP/IP connection.
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Originally posted by nO-One
What bugged me the most about ID.4 was that they just created a virus for a alien computer,using some strange alien OS with out a problem.Then they had no problem interfacing with the alien comp.How convinient that the aliens a used TCP/IP connection.
Alien OS? Yeah right. I thought you knew your sci-fi films. Everyone knows that the Aliens in ID4 used Windows 95.
Duh!
:D
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Sorry,ofcourse I should have known that Billy G\'s grasp reaches beyond Earth\'s solar system
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why does it seem like evryone on this forum always has something they hate about america?
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Soon America will go down,and Iceland will reign supreme :D
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Originally posted by FatalXception
The problem with american culture is that they HAVE TO BE THE BEST. They HAVE TO WIN.
You know, I\'ve been around the world, and I\'ve met people from many many different countries, and the first thing I learned is that no one hates the United States as much as the Canadians do. I\'ve also been to Canada many times, and I really liked it. So, that\'s all I\'m going to say about that. BTW, FatalXception, where in Ontario are you? I have friends in Waterloo.
Now regarding all this other stuff about Americans\' roles in Science Fiction movies... Rather than build some complex analysis of the American psyche, why not acknowledge the real reason why Americans always save the world in those idiotic films? Hollywood, California, USA is the world capital of the film industry, and ALL the big international science fiction films that everyone\'s heard of were created by American production companies. THUS they were written and marketed with the American public in mind. If you waste your time watching a piece of sh1te like "Independence Day" then don\'t blame us if you find the story doesn\'t represent your nation/culture in a favorable light. The film wasn\'t created for you, and international distribution is just the gravy on the studio\'s balance sheet. It\'s not the meat. Likewise, science fiction films produced in the UK are filmed in England, and usually written as if the rest of the world didn\'t exist. Same with Australia, Germany, Japan, etc etc etc.
Now to a more important subject: Weltall is correct. Spain has the hottest women on Earth. Man I couldn\'t believe it when I was there. Ain\'t that right, Joyda?
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Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
why does it seem like evryone on this forum always has something they hate about america?
Well, I think the main issue is that a lot of non-Americans have had enough of those Americans (not all of them, but those this applies to) that seem to think the world = America. They think they\'re superior in every way, their language is spoken everywhere, they can do as they wish and everyone had better kiss their @sses. I know not every American is like that, but that\'s the image they send out in most parts of the world. A lot of them seem ignorant and arrogant. They want the world\'s attention and fail to recognize that there IS in fact people out there with great lives, in great countries that (while not as big as the US) are at least on par with the US technology wise, if not better - that also applies for many other aspects: freedom of speech, \'liberty\' etc. The world doesn\'t equal USA to the rest of the 5.75 billion people out there. The point in this being: Americans aren\'t better than other people. They\'re just as good and the US is a nice, modern western country like many others.
And it seems you have to \'feel superior\' about living in the US. I don\'t feel that way about living where I live. I like people all over the world, no matter where they come from. I think of myself as being a \'citizen of the world\' or whatever, and the Internet has certainly helped a lot here. The country in which you live doesn\'t matter much to me - it\'s the person you are inside that matters - what you do, how you act, how you feel etc. For all I care I might as well live in every other western country, I don\'t hate any of them or the people there. Nor do I feel a huge patriotism or pride in my country. I like it, but I can\'t say I\'d do anything to \'protect\' it - I am who I am and that\'s what matters to me. Not the country I live in (so you can see I don\'t believe in \'pride for my country\' etc - I think it\'s foolish and leads to a lot of anger. Why not just accept people for who they are, not where they were born (it\'s not like you can choose where to be born anyway). There are great people from all around the globe. :)
I certainly know lots of nice Americans who doesn\'t think that way, so it\'s not meant to be a sound as if I "hate" all Americans or something, because I don\'t. I just wanted to point out some issues about the US that some Americans have difficulties admitting to or even understanding. So don\'t be offended by this, but try and think it through and see it from a non-US perspective before flaming me out of patriotism or whatever. :)
Note: This was quite a large post and I didn\'t feel like proof-reading it all. So if there are any errors please live with it. ;)
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C\'mon guys. You are complaining about American movies. When was the last time you saw a film for the American public that had another country save the day? Why is it that in Godzilla movies it is always the Japanese that save the day? :rolleyes:
As for other countries not liking the US. I still say it is mainly because we are one of the main world powers. Its like how the less popular kids talk about the popular kids behind their backs. I don\'t hear anyone talking about Sudan and the crap going on over there. I know the US isn\'t the greatest country but it is far from the worst. Pretty much the US is damned if we do and damned if we don\'t.
BTW, Canada is one of the coolest countries. IMO, In a lot of aspects it is what the US should be; but I think that could be because they don\'t have a lot of the responsibilities that we do.
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Might want to try Jackie Chan 70s to 80s martial arts movie, they are riched with martial culture,or Jet Lee and Bruce Lee.
I think Hong Kong movies are the 2nd best overall.In fighting movies,HongKong rules...in Sci Fi and action..Usa rules.
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Originally posted by Gohan
As for other countries not liking the US. I still say it is mainly because we are one of the main world powers. Its like how the less popular kids talk about the popular kids behind their backs.
Well, believe it or not, but other countries don\'t go around talking about the US all the time. Outside US people know it\'s not the center of the world, but some Americans are full off it.
I have a funny story about this thing. I talked to someone on ICQ a while ago, and he asked me where I was from. I told him I was from Denmark and he asked (I don\'t remember the exact words): "What do you guys think about the US?". When I told him the US wasn\'t really that big a subject here, he couldn\'t believe it. He thought we had to be talking about it. He couldn\'t understand that other countries do their own country stuff and have their own subjects to talk about. To them the US is just a good/bad (depending on who you ask) country like any other - and when some Americans fail to recognize this I think that\'s where the so-called "hatred" against the US arises. People think most Americans full of themselves. Fair or not, that\'s how it often is.
//just an analysis, no need to flame the messenger :)//
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Originally posted by Samwise
Well, I think the main issue is that a lot of non-Americans have had enough of those Americans (not all of them, but those this applies to) that seem to think the world = America. They think they\'re superior in every way, their language is spoken everywhere, they can do as they wish and everyone had better kiss their @sses.
Samwise,
I agree with you 100%, and you made some valid points. I\'ve encountered this view of americans from many people. While I think of it as a stereotype, I will admit there is some truth in it. Every country has stereotypes about them, so I guess this one is ours. I think people get this impression of us through our media (movies, television, music). However, as I said above, those media products were mostly created with an American market in mind. The media conglomerates believe a product is more reliably profitable if it doesn\'t require the consumer to stretch their thinking. Therefore the media corporations give us products that reinforce our thinking instead of presenting a different view of the world. Because of this, I think the images of americans you\'ve encountered are not a mirror of who we are, they are just some corporation\'s idea of a perfect product. I don\'t have any strong nationalist patriotic feelings about the US. That would require me to support all the horrible things my government has done around the world in the last 50 years, so forget it. I also don\'t think the US is superior in everything, in fact I\'m surprised when we\'re superior in anything. The only thing I can do is try to remind people through my example that we\'re not all like the stereotype.
BTW, Not all of our media products run on this idiotic "USA No.1" mentality. I assume you receive "The X-Files" in some form???? That to me is a good representation of what the US is REALLY like. For eight seasons it\'s been an unforgivingly self-critical portrait of everything that\'s wrong with the United States, and a few things that are right with it. In addition, it\'s become a highly successful television property, so it has proven that the American public doesn\'t always want to see what it\'s already familiar with.
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Thanks for your reply Coredweller, I\'m glad to see that someone can agree to the points I made. I agree with you that the media probably plays a large part in this. I know not all Americans are like what I described - a lot of them are nice and \'ordinary\' people, but with some 260+ million people there are bound to be lots of different opinions. "Bad apples" are a universal problem. :)
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I also agree with good\'ol Sammy.But he neglected to mention that the guests on Jerry Springer also give Amercans a bad name,and the people on Jay walking,one guy thought he had multible hearts and another thought the Earth had 6 moons and yet another tought the Earth had no moons.
Ignorant yankees :D
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Originally posted by Samwise
Well, believe it or not, but other countries don\'t go around talking about the US all the time. Outside US people know it\'s not the center of the world, but some Americans are full off it.
I never said that they did. It is just when something happens involving the US other countries feel the need to down us for it.
As for American ****iness, I have to agree that it is the media that causes this perception. Americans have been fed pro-US propaganda since birth and will be fed it until death. That is just the way it is and there will still be jackass yanks until China or some other opportunistic nation knocks us off the top of the heap.
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This discussion has gone far deeper than I first thought it would - and I brought the ID4-movie-subject partly as a \'joke\', but it had some point to it. It is just my personal hatred - hatred towards \'clichè\', and \'clichè\' to me these days is America saving the world.
Take Armageddon for example - pure action movie, americans save the day, and the russian ( wich is the only foreign key-character may I remind ) is suddenly funny - mostly because of the accent. Armageddon = Big American Clichè.
So I agree with SmallLady - you can see the media is spreading comedy on the subject she spoke about.
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OMG!! Its an AMERICAN movie!!! How is that cliche? Does the US save the world in English movies? How about Australian? Give me a break.
I don\'t want to sound like one of those c0cky americans that people dislike but how can you fault an american filmaker for having american heroes? That is something that I just don\'t understand.
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Originally posted by Gohan
OMG!! Its an AMERICAN movie!!! How is that cliche? Does the US save the world in English movies? How about Australian? Give me a break.
Actually I mean the overall of these \'cheesy\' movies, examples are Armageddon and ID4 for christ\'s sakes :)
They\'re hollywood mega-movies - I don\'t care if Americans save the world all over again if the movie is GOOD rather than full of cheesy \'comments\' and quessable ending.
The clichèness in those films is just the impossibility - how can a crew of oil-bumpers become skilled astronauts, or even able to be in a shuttle take-off, after, what, two weeks of practise?
I just hate movies of those kinds.. and it IS pretty funny after ALL that americans save the world if the problem is considering the whole world. They do make the American President look like the center of the world. I appreciate movies like Jackal ( and usually those who are based on TRUE stories ), where even a small country like Finland is presented.
Don\'t take everything so word to word, nor be so aggressive - in other words, give ME a break, Gohan :)
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You know,
Im from America, and I think our government is ****ty.
But, I mean come on.
When people made Independence Day, they didnt think, "Ohh, America is so much better than every country, they HAVE to save the world."
They though,"We are from America, AMERICANS are from AMERICA.America Saves the world."
Are you telling me they arnt any Denmarkian Movies where someone from Denmark saves the world.Or from Finnland?
They make movies "Cheesy" cause women like the Romantisiscm, and men like the Suspense.
Easy.
The reason America is ****y is because of WWII.
We know that without us, the world might be under the yoke of the Nazi Regime, so we feel you all owe us or something.
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You guys all need to put down the Goddamn crackpike and open your f*cking eyes. First, not all Americans think they are the best in the world. If the ones that you have talked to about America from America represents your stereotype of us, then you are as blind and ignorant as you think us Americans are. Lets also not forget that there really is no "Americans" to begin with in conforms to the stereotypes represented in this thread. Remember, the only true Americans are the ones called "Native-Americans" and settlers from many other countries decided it would be a good idea to flush them out and take over their land. How many movies have you seen where the Native-American was the hero? Hell, the only one that I can think of that even comes close, and by no stretch of the imagination was he the true hero, was Chief Bromden in One flew Over the Cuckoo\'s Nest.
The fact is, America is made up of about every single race and religion represented in the world. We have at least well over 100 people representing nearly every culture and country within our borders. Our billions of Americans are merely only Americans by label. We are the representation of the entire world and that\'s a fact you are all going to have to face. You can stereotype us all you want, but in some shape way or form, you are inherintly stereotyping your own people. America is the first country to successfully combine THOUSANDS of cultures into one large culture while still maintaining a stature of world power and allowing those people to speak for themselves. The next time you label any one American as being ****y or biased, you might want to ask that American what his heritage is and you just might be shocked that his ancestors came from a country not too distant from your own. The only question I have to ask is, "why would anyone want to leave from your oh-so-great countries and want to come to this supposed sh*t-hole in the first place?"
I\'m not saying anything along the lines of "You don\'t like it, leave or don\'t come here," but I am saying that you should all realise that before you sterotype us, you are all really stereotyping yourselves.
Lastly, just as was said before, million dollar budget movies funded by American companies for the supposed "American Culture" are obviously going to cater to their target audience. Cloud looks inherintly Japanese... but he saved the world... Squall looks inherintly Japanese\\American, but he saved the world... Fei from Xenogears looks pretty damn Japanese and again, he saved the world. Leo looks pretty damn Japanese, even though he grew up in Jupiter and yet again, he saved the (station). I accept that fact entirely when it comes to games, but people have a hard time accepting movies or films? Get over it. If you can play a game designed by a Japanese creator where a Japanese man or woman saved the Earth and say "that was the most fun I\'ve ever had," then can\'t you get over your evil American sterotypes and say "that movie was pretty damn good, lets go watch it again"?
Jesus Christ, us Americans have it the hardest as any other country because we are looked on as the country that represents the whole friggin planet. I dont see anyone else putting their hopes behind China or Russia as a representative of the planet. This is not a knock on other countries, but America is seen as the country that all others should live by. So if we f*ck up at some point in time, namely the Vietnam war, we are frowned upon, but if we pull through and do something everyone likes, namely WW2, we are loved beyond belief, but if we don\'t do anything recently that really impacts the world in some quasi-illuminated way, we\'re looked down on. It\'s the "what have you done for me lately" clause. It\'s sad really, but I\'m sure Pearl Harbor will be a VERY popular movie in Japan even though it\'s a true story. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Faithdies
so we feel you all owe us or something.
I\'m sorry big brother :( but the Naziz were teazing us at school.
The thing that get\'s on my nerves is how people generalize countries.
Like all Icelanders live in igloo\'s (spelling?) because our countrie\'s name starts with ice.Naziz were German,thus all German\'s have to be Naziz.Every Australian fights crocodiles in their free time because they saw it on Crocodile Hunter (I love that show btw).All russian\'s are either big fat drunks,or secret agent\'s.All American\'s are either rednecks,or just full them selves and patriotism etc...
Ignorance is no excuse :D
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Hey Ryu, Before anyone tries to flame you and what not, I want to say that I agree with you wholeheartedly. I remember in High School how Jamaicans would tell me how sucky the US was and I would say "Why the HeII are you here?" to which they would respond, "There are better opportunities here than in my country." WTF is that?!?!
BTW, I am part Native-American(Algonquin - Wampanoag to be specific) so I can claim to be American. :D
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Hey Ryu, Before anyone tries to flame you and what not, I want to say that I agree with you wholeheartedly. I remember in High School how Jamaicans would tell me how sucky the US was and I would say "Why the HeII are you here?" to which they would respond, "There are better opportunities here than in my country." WTF is that?!?!
BTW, I am part Native-American(Algonquin - Wampanoag to be specific) so I can claim to be American.
I know I\'m gonna get flamed for what I said and frankly, I don\'t care. I\'m so sick of this forum being made up of so many different ethnicities and cultural backgrounds other then "American" and us "Americans" get flamed the most concerning country comparison. I\'m sick of that crap and so many people here place stereotypes on us "Americans" without even realising it. You want to stereotype people in your spare time because you think our country is ****ty, that\'s fine, but don\'t expect to just get away with it.
I mean come on, you people started flaming Americans simply because we use American heroes in AMERICAN movies. I\'m sure you all have your own damn movies with your own damn heroes and none of us say a damn thing about them, but I guess being the most popular and most successful nation in the world sure does get you a lot of criticisms. We\'re sorry we love entertainment and make the best movies suitable for importing in many different languages to many different countries, but if you have a problem with the way that we make them, then piss off because no one is forcing you to watch any of them. i\'m sure your own country has their own forms of entertainment, so b*tch about them for a change and leave us alone.
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I\'m in Canada\'s capital, but I visit waterloo U all the time (friends there). I think the reason Canadians tend not to like American culture is that we are very simmilar in many ways, but we have totally different viewpoints on major issues. For instance, I don\'t know ONE Canadian who likes Bush or the Republicans.
I personally only have a problem with the fact that Americans tend to be "consumers" to the extreme. They want to turn their deserts into lush lands (using Canadian bought water - what were we thinking!), climate control all of their houses and cars, and have a standard of living which, to be honest, means hurting both the environment and smaller countries.
Now I realize it\'s unfair to generalize like that, but if you have ever seen the CBC (Canadian Radio/TV) show "this hour has 22 minutes" where they went to the states to ask everyday people/university profs/politicians questions about Canada, you would realize that most Americans don\'t know or care about anything outside of their own country.
Getting politicians (ie state governors, university proffs) to say stuff like "congratulations canada on your first university", or "congratulations canada on calling your money \'the dollar\' like us!" just shows that there are many Americans who don\'t look beyond their own shores.
RYU - The problem for the movies occurs in things like U571. The movie says based on a true story. TRUE. It says very close to the truth. TRUE. An american sub is the hero. FALSE. It was a british sub. Now, I don\'t think that making that sub british would have made the movie much less popular, and the problem with the way it is, is that many people end up believing just what they saw. Titanic - for drama, the shiphand shoots some people trying to get onto the lifeboats - and again "based on truth", so people believe that part of the story. Real life? That man was acclaimed as a hero, he helped the people get on the boats, and then went back aboard to go down with the ship. He was a huge hero in his home town, and they were outraged by his portrayal in the film (why use his real name and rank if you are going to turn him into a murderer that kills himself?!!?).
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RYU - The problem for the movies occurs in things like U571. The movie says based on a true story. TRUE. It says very close to the truth. TRUE. An american sub is the hero. FALSE. It was a british sub. Now, I don\'t think that making that sub british would have made the movie much less popular, and the problem with the way it is, is that many people end up believing just what they saw. Titanic - for drama, the shiphand shoots some people trying to get onto the lifeboats - and again "based on truth", so people believe that part of the story. Real life? That man was acclaimed as a hero, he helped the people get on the boats, and then went back aboard to go down with the ship. He was a huge hero in his home town, and they were outraged by his portrayal in the film (why use his real name and rank if you are going to turn him into a murderer that kills himself?!!?).
The explanation for this is quite easy. When anyone uses any historical documents from anything for a major motion picture, the adage used is "BASED on a true story." It\'s true that Saving Private Ryan was also BASED on a true story and told as accurately as possible. Directors and the like change certain elements to further make the story more compelling such as a Private in the 32nd airborne losing all his brothers and now needing to go home and live out his days with his mother. Was there really a Nazi sniper who killed Captain Miller on the bridge in some backwater city called Ramel? It doesn\'t matter really. The fact is, it was a compelling story based on facts taken from that era to make an interesting film. The same can be said with just about ANY story based on ANY historical actions. Unless the film is a documentary, you can count on certain aspects to be changed in order to make the film more compelling.
Just watch Pearl Harbor when it comes out. Certain characters are real while others are not, but the ones added will make the story more compelling to the audience. I\'m learning about all this junk in screenplays and in fact I am writing a Screenplay myself based on certain events leading to WW2. Sure, the events I describe may not have happened, but there is a certain believable truth to them nonetheless that further emerses a fan into a film. You can be mad about that all you want, but in any case, both movies made a bunch of cash and everyone who saw them walked away saying "that MOVIE was pretty decent" or "That MOVIE totally sucked." It\'s a movie, really, get over it.
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My problem isn\'t that they change stuff, it\'s that they too selectively change it. That guy in Titanic. Fine, it\'s dramatic to have some ship\'s crewman shoot the pushy men trying to get women outta the boat, then kill himself. Take the artistic liscense, by all means. BUT don\'t try and be "realistic" and use a real man\'s name and rank, so that if you don\'t know the true story (and most don\'t), it will make most people think that that\'s how it really happened. Therein lies the problem. If you change major details like changing 100% of the crew to american from british, it\'s no longer "based on a real story". It\'s a total fabrication.
Newho, it\'s time for futurama :D cyaround.
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im not a sci fi geek, but i thought about it when watching star wars. Earth is small planet with loads of different languages, but in the films say the planet "artilla" every one speaks "artillian" you know just one languge for a whole god damn planet, if our small world has got lot of different ones,with different accents, how come a different planet has one language and there accents are all the same, if there was a planet some parts in the past would not be able to be got to by certain people, e.g huge ocean in between countries, so the likelyhood of them every begining to evolve and talk the same as people hundreds of miles apart and never met or are gonna meet is very unlikely
THat was the original topic...how did it blossom into on how American sucks or how it doenst suck and stereoptypes and what not. Jeebus stick with the topic for crying out loud.
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Originally posted by FatalXception
My problem isn\'t that they change stuff, it\'s that they too selectively change it. That guy in Titanic. Fine, it\'s dramatic to have some ship\'s crewman shoot the pushy men trying to get women outta the boat, then kill himself. Take the artistic liscense, by all means. BUT don\'t try and be "realistic" and use a real man\'s name and rank, so that if you don\'t know the true story (and most don\'t), it will make most people think that that\'s how it really happened. Therein lies the problem. If you change major details like changing 100% of the crew to american from british, it\'s no longer "based on a real story". It\'s a total fabrication.
FatalXception:
In case no one else says it, YOU ARE RIGHT!!! I never heard that story about the character from Titanic, but it doesn\'t surprise me one bit. The only problem with your criticisms of american cinema is that in these two examples, your expectations are too high. Both Titanic and U-571 were 100% pure unrefined CR@P. The United States makes the biggest motion pictures ever made, we distribute them the widest, they usually make the most money, but we ALSO MAKE THE WORST MOVIES EVER MADE. "LA Confidential" or even "As Good As It Gets" should have won best picture that year, but money talks, and it\'s the only god most AMPAS members pray to, so Titanic won instead. When something is as bad as Titanic, I don\'t expect anything about it to be accurate, truthful, or display any integrity at all. If you don\'t like it, do what I do: Don\'t watch it.
Please keep the discussion going, but I think everyone\'s arguments would carry more weight if you\'d find something to criticise in the good things we\'ve done. (I notice that no one\'s brought up the X-Files since I mentioned it.) Otherwise you\'re just hitting below the belt.
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Ryu, no offense, but I think you\'re stereotyping yourself. You \'\'seem\'\' (notice the \'\') to think everyone is critizising the US because you\'re so great, we\'re all jealous of you, our countries are ****e, yada yada yada. Here\'s a newsflash: We DON\'T talk about the US all the time, we DON\'T critisize the US all the time, we\'re NOT out to get you guys all the time. I see the US as a country like every other - it has flaws and it has strengths. Like ANY OTHER COUNTRY. That\'s the core point to me - America is a nation like the thousands of other countries that exists all over the world. Of course you guys are bigger and certainly plays a big role in the world, but to non-Americans our daily life doesn\'t *GASP* involve talking about/praising/dissing the US all the time.
I don\'t care about Will Smith saving the world in ID4, because I know it\'s an American movie made for Americans. I don\'t watch it to see a masterpiece in filmmaking, because then I certainly wouldn\'t be watching Hollywood summer blockbusters. They\'re made with one thing, and one thing only, in mind: $$$. It\'s people\'s own fault if they want true to life facts and deep thoughts from a Hollywood blockbuster. However, I think it can tend to be a problem - like in the submarine movie. Children/teens go watch the movie and thinks \'wow, based on a true story! How cool those Americans defeated the Nazis\' etc. If they rely on such historial \'facts\' from movies (and I\'m affraid lots of teens do) then they\'ll grow up with false information about that certain historical event. You might think that\'s just a small thing and irrelevant, but I think it can be a problem. At least if they don\'t learn the truth in school. Perhaps the filmmakers should think about the moral aspects of the information they\'ll send out to children - but I know they won\'t - they\'ll think \'how do we maximize profits... hmm, I know. Instead of those kinky Brits let\'s make the submarine crew American. Yes, that\'ll sell better...\'. Of course it doesn\'t matter to me, because I take it for what it is - mindless entertainment. But can you honestly say younger children will do the same?
*note, this is just for discussion and isn\'t meant for anyone in particular, so don\'t get all frenzy on me*
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You \'\'seem\'\' (notice the \'\') to think everyone is critizising the US because you\'re so great, we\'re all jealous of you, our countries are ****e, yada yada yada.
Wrong. I am pissed about the critizising at all. I could care less for anyone\'s stupid reasons, I\'m pissed because in a forum I frequent, people feel it necessary to bash the country I live in and that pisses me off. I don\'t mind that you all have your views, that\'s fine, but as long as I don\'t have to hear about them everywhere I go (media or otherwise) then all is well. You live in your world and I\'ll live in mine, what\'s so bad about that?
Here\'s a newsflash: We DON\'T talk about the US all the time, we DON\'T critisize the US all the time, we\'re NOT out to get you guys all the time.
That\'s good of you to say so, but many of the forum members who do not live in the US feel it\'s their right and duty to bash us, quite frequently as of late I might add, to no end. It\'s already led to numerous threads being closed and everytime it happens, no one is around to stand up for the US, but this time, I\'m here and I\'m sick of it.
I see the US as a country like every other - it has flaws and it has strengths. Like ANY OTHER COUNTRY. That\'s the core point to me - America is a nation like the thousands of other countries that exists all over the world. Of course you guys are bigger and certainly plays a big role in the world, but to non-Americans our daily life doesn\'t *GASP* involve talking about/praising/dissing the US all the time.
Again, that\'s good to hear, but again I reiterate the point that on this particular forum, US is the butt-end of many insults. It may not happen everyday in every other country outside of the US, but some of the places I frequent, namely this one, it does and that\'s unacceptable in my opinion.
However, I think it can tend to be a problem - like in the submarine movie. Children/teens go watch the movie and thinks \'wow, based on a true story! How cool those Americans defeated the Nazis\' etc. If they rely on such historial \'facts\' from movies (and I\'m affraid lots of teens do) then they\'ll grow up with false information about that certain historical event. You might think that\'s just a small thing and irrelevant, but I think it can be a problem. At least if they don\'t learn the truth in school. Perhaps the filmmakers should think about the moral aspects of the information they\'ll send out to children - but I know they won\'t - they\'ll think \'how do we maximize profits... hmm, I know. Instead of those kinky Brits let\'s make the submarine crew American. Yes, that\'ll sell better...\'. Of course it doesn\'t matter to me, because I take it for what it is - mindless entertainment. But can you honestly say younger children will do the same?
Media is destroying countless thousands as the days go by with tons of false information thrown at us all from left and right. If a kid can\'t learn the facts for themselves, then what\'s the Internet for? I\'m sure I can find the whole entire truth about the U-571 incident on one simple webpage, but it\'s up to someone who really gives a damn to look it up. Most of the people who work now in office buildings making billions of dollars on software could care less about a bunch of guys in a sub who practically won the war themselves, much less their true nationality. It\'s a sad fact, but an accurate and true one nontheless. I don\'t blame anyone else for the stupidity of our children, no one except the parents. However, although certain things like false information are quite unappealing, there\'s nothing I can do about it except piss and moan, but that doesn\'t give any other country the right to diss us as freely as they want, which is my real point from the beginning.
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Originally posted by Samwise
It\'s people\'s own fault if they want true to life facts and deep thoughts from a Hollywood blockbuster. However, I think it can tend to be a problem - like in the submarine movie. Children/teens go watch the movie and thinks \'wow, based on a true story! How cool those Americans defeated the Nazis\' etc. If they rely on such historial \'facts\' from movies (and I\'m affraid lots of teens do) then they\'ll grow up with false information about that certain historical event.
U-571 is just bad in every possible way. Even as a work of pure fantasy it\'s awful. The script is stupid beyond belief. The reason the producer chose to make the heroes american is not because we americans demand to rewrite history and see ourselves saving the world. It\'s because Matthew McConaughey was signed to the project, and he\'s from Texas, and HE CAN\'T DO A BRITISH ACCENT! Likewise with Harvey Keitel. It\'s really as simple as that. Maybe they should have used the traditional solution to this problem, and created some fictional joint British/American commando unit ala "Where Eagles Dare" or "Force 10 From Navaronne" but it\'s more difficult to make that work on a submarine.
So the movie was lousy, and dumb, and full of lies, but I became immune to this a long time ago. Getting mad at Hollywood movies for lying to you is like getting mad at the rain for getting you wet. It makes you upset and changes nothing. The media surrounds us with lies on a daily basis, we just have to teach our children to understand this. I intend to teach my children that entertainment comes from movies, and history comes from books, and even then you have to carefully evaluate the possible hidden biases of the historian.
Nuff said
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Originally posted by Samwise
I don\'t care about Will Smith saving the world in ID4, because I know it\'s an American movie made for Americans. I don\'t watch it to see a masterpiece in filmmaking, because then I certainly wouldn\'t be watching Hollywood summer blockbusters. They\'re made with one thing, and one thing only, in mind: $$$.
This is what I meant. I hope you didn\'t think I bashed americans in any way, Ruy - I just represented my movie-taste. I don\'t like Hollywood blockbusters, much because they\'re predictable ( I just don\'t know wich to you direct your agressive thread ). I will surely go watch Pearl Harbor just because the true story is interesting and I\'m eagerly waiting forward to see it on screen - even if it will become a blockbuster-hit. If I want a masterpiece, I go for Das Boot wich is word to word true, but alas, not a hollywood blockbuster. U-5721 will never achieve such a classic status as Das Boot did, and critics mentioned they didn\'t like the history changed in the film. But it doesn\'t mean it\'s a bad film! I actually liked it a bit - it is way different than Das Boot. Much more based on fiendish action than psychological fight.
And I can point out a stereo-typized film wich I absolutely love - Indiana Jones. American guy beats up Nazis and wins the evil. What does make it classic and so epic? It was made with love, not with money in mind. So I don\'t hate all the stereo-typized films.
And my movie-taste has NOTHING to do with hating U.S., as I certainly don\'t. But, Ruy, I agree with Samwise that we don\'t speak about it here - I think we speak more about russia than America. Just sometimes the fact that "Even the small ones can do wonders" applies, as media focuses on America mostly. But there\'s reasons to it, no doubt in that.
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Well I for one don\'t bash the US.
I mean the US of A has brought me a bunch of enjoyable movies and Star Trek.
And Samwise is right,most of us who are not American don\'t talk about the US all the time,we aren\'t pissed off in any way,and we\'re not out to get you (well maybe Iraq or something)
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Different opinions are always welcome, otherwise a debating forum would be quite boring. I\'m sure that no-matter what your views are you\'ll agree that this thread (though not quite on the original topic) has turned out to be one of the most informative threads I can remember for a long time. Hell, I can\'t remember that last time I\'ve made replies that long. I hope nobody feels offended or anything, because I\'m not particularly fond of that. But at least there are long (and strong) views in this thread and I think that\'s a good thing after all. So peace everybody and thanks for your time. :)
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WE ARE THE WOOOORLD....
WE ARE THE CHILDREN....
WE ARE THE ONES WHO\'LL MAKE A BRIGHTER DAY, SO LETS START GIVIIIIING....
THERE\'S A CHOICE WE\'RE MAKING....
WE\'RE SAVING OUR OWN LIVES....
ITS TRUE, WE\'LL MAKE A BRIGHTER DAY, JUST YOU AND MEEEEEE.....
C\'MON EVERYBODY
......WE ARE THE WORLD.....
:D