PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Knotter8 on May 02, 2001, 06:14:07 AM
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OMG. We ppl in Europe still don\'t have Onimusha Warlords. Isn\'t that sad ! :crap:
With Sony , Nintendo and MS all bragging for themselves
how great their technology is : they still do less than
impress when it comes to bringing content to the PAL
territories.
I mean , it almost makes me think getting a original game made to PAL is harder than porting to another
console. It always simply takes that long.
Why haven\'t they invested in figuring out some method of getting Pal games ready faster. I think this would benefit them because now we here in Europe are getting f**ked by this over and over again. One would think they\'d have this sorted out now in the 128 bit era.
But no, it has to be painful for us Europeans again.
C\'mon Sony, NIntendo and Ms do somethin about this fast plz !
Knotter8
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Here\'s a clue for Europe.... use NTSC like the rest of the world.
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Do you know what Ethugg ,i really wish we did use NTSC,it would be so much simplier,also i wish we all used the same voltage as well,i dont see why it isnt universal,but what can we do?
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Umm I think more people use PAL rather than NTSC (probly wrong though).
But I prefer PAL,better image quality etc...
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Originally posted by EThugg
Here\'s a clue for Europe.... use NTSC like the rest of the world.
Can you get any more ignorant? :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Samwise
Can you get any more ignorant? :rolleyes:
You must have me confused with Bozco :D. Sorry nO-One and Sammy, but Asia, and the Americas both use NTSC, that alone is the majority. I\'m not sure about Africa though...
If everyone used the same standard format, it\'d be much easier...
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Why not get an NTSC television and an NTSC PS2, and import all your games? It\'s a global internet economy, and the big corporations act like it\'s still 1951. You don\'t have to buy from your local shop anymore.
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I agree that a standard format would be best for everyone, but the currect formats have their roots in the different \'voltage thingies\' (in lack of a better word). And unfortunatly it would cost billions to change to one standard. :(
But both formats have their advantages. NTSC is the oldest and by many regarded the inferior system. The resolution is lower, but it has a higher framerate. It\'s sometimes referred to as "Never The Same Color". PAL on the other hand has better color defination (I think, I\'m not too sure about the technical aspects) and higher resolution, but lower frame rates (25 fps vs 30 fps). And then there\'s the SECAM format used by the French - and countries like Russia and Iraq if I\'m not mistaken. PAL has another advantage - if you\'re into digital filmmaking a PAL source is better for transfer to 35mm because the 25 fps means only 1 frame is lost per second - and the higher resolution is a very good thing as video is already inferior to film resolution wise.
But for videogames I\'d prefer NTSC because of framerate. If we lived in an ideal world they should make some sort of universal super HDTV format that took the best from all formats - and made it even better. :)
BTW, here\'s a list of what countries use what format. It\'s in Danish though, as I couldn\'t find an English version. But as you can see it isn\'t as black and white as "NTSC is used in USA + Asia and PAL in Europe".
http://www.anderschou.dk/Format/TVsystemer.htm
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Originally posted by Coredweller
Why not get an NTSC television and an NTSC PS2, and import all your games? It\'s a global internet economy, and the big corporations act like it\'s still 1951. You don\'t have to buy from your local shop anymore.
Most PAL equipment can actually play NTSC software without a problem, but things like different voltage and stuff makes it a bit of a problem. Mostly I think it\'s because of slobby companies though... It doesn\'t take that long to convert and translate a game.
I like the GBA idea where you can import a Japanese model and use it everywhere. And play Japanese games in a model from another country without a problem. The world is getting smaller due to the Internet, but some companies/people refuse to make the transitions it seems.
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why cant europeans have ps2 that play ntsc not pal??? when i had my ps1 chipped ( for only importing games, as my nan lives in the usa) the games run fine, the only difference was that the game had to be through a scart lead, but other than that it was fine, so why cant they have the european ps2 as a ntsc?????
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Message to my European brothers who are whining - shut yer gob! j/k :p
ISS Pro Evolution 3
EA Sports Rugby 2001
LMA Manager 2002
WRC2001
Just SOME of the sports games that I want the most, and ISSPE3 is my most anticipated PS2 game (way more so than MGS2 or GT3) and guess what - these games will either take ages to get here, or more likely for the first three, NEVER come to North America. So I\'ll have to end up buying a PAL PS2.
So next time you start your complaing, spare a thought for poor old Lavan, you just have to wait a month or two, I\'ll never get to see the games unless I get a PAL PS2.
ISS Pro Evo 2 never made to North America so I actually had to import the game, and then buy a PAL PSOne and use it with my multi-system TV to play it. Waiting a month or two is no big deal..
Sh!te I can\'t even get decent Fish and Chips here, Kopking, I\'m coming over to your house when ISS PE3 comes out.... :)
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Originally posted by Coredweller
Why not get an NTSC television and an NTSC PS2, and import all your games? It\'s a global internet economy, and the big corporations act like it\'s still 1951. You don\'t have to buy from your local shop anymore.
That`s what I do with my PS2. But to play the games early has its price.There`s more cost for shipping, import taxes , duty etc.
But I`m happy with my decision.
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How much does it cost in total to get your import games Macabre?Because i wanted to do this,so i added it all up and it could cost me £90 to get one game!!
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Originally posted by Lavan
Message to my European brothers who are whining - shut yer gob! j/k :p
ISS Pro Evolution 3
EA Sports Rugby 2001
LMA Manager 2002
WRC2001
Just SOME of the sports games that I want the most, and ISSPE3 is my most anticipated PS2 game (way more so than MGS2 or GT3) and guess what - these games will either take ages to get here, or more likely for the first three, NEVER come to North America. So I\'ll have to end up buying a PAL PS2.
So next time you start your complaing, spare a thought for poor old Lavan, you just have to wait a month or two, I\'ll never get to see the games unless I get a PAL PS2.
ISS Pro Evo 2 never made to North America so I actually had to import the game, and then buy a PAL PSOne and use it with my multi-system TV to play it. Waiting a month or two is no big deal..
Sh!te I can\'t even get decent Fish and Chips here, Kopking, I\'m coming over to your house when ISS PE3 comes out.... :)
thats a good point lavan, but its a pain in the arse that we have to wait, but if euroupean gamers were on ntsc you would be able to get a football game much easier, cos it would be on the same format and prob be able to get it from usa, or somewhere else on ntsc
Yeah theres one prob though, i live on a boat. if you ever did come over id have to get some practice before yo come over, so i can whoop you on the footie :D
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Originally posted by Ethan_Hunt
How much does it cost in total to get your import games Macabre?Because i wanted to do this,so i added it all up and it could cost me £90 to get one game!!
You live in England,right? You could order your games at http://www.dvdboxoffice.com (they have US DVDs too).I think it`s an Canadian site.They have free shipping with Aeromail Worldwide which is a British company.So the shipping could be fast for you also.
The games there are £34 - 38. So even with taxes you would never have to play 90. I think i pay about 10%-15% more in total.
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Like Samwise said, it\'s the slobby companies which should put some effort in this matter.
And Lavan, what if someone like me doesn\'t like ISS
Rugby games like that. I am awaiting MGS2 eagerly.
I don\'t like sports videogames that much : for sports
I go outside and play some basketball.
My point is that if they would deliver decently to PAL
ppl they would make better and faster money and have
satisfied customers.
AD 2001 and still haven\'t got some solution for the console Pal- NTsc problem, shsss c\'mon dude.
Knotter8
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I know Knotter, but my point is that not all North Americans are \'lucky\' for getting games early, because they\'re not neccesarily the games we want the most.
Just trying to make all of you feel better! ;)
Kopking, I\'ll bring the beer.
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So Lavan, you\'re a soccer fan , an American soccer fan.
Soccer is really big here in the Netherlands.
I like sports like basketball better. I watch the national
soccer team when they have a big game on tv though.
Knotter8
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Actually I was born and raised in England, I came here to Canada in \'93 - that\'s why I love soccer (football) so much!
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lavan also learned a real important thing when he was in England, not just that football is excellent, but the greatest football team is LIVERPOOL :D
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Ah, but I didn\'t learn that Kopking, no that was an evolutionary instinct - it\'s coded in my genes. :)
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Here is a nice little listing of the pros and cons of all the systems:
NTSC Advantages-
Higher Frame Rate - Use of 30 frames per second (really 29.97) reduces visible flicker.
Atomic Colour Edits - With NTSC it is possible to edit at any 4 field boundary point without disturbing the colour signal.
Less inherent picture noise - Almost all pieces of video equipment achieve better signal to noise characteristics in their NTSC form than in their PAL.
NTSC Disadvantages
Lower Number of Scan Lines - Reduced clarity on large screen TVs, line structure more visible.
Smaller Luminance Signal Bandwidth - Due to the placing of the colour sub-carrier at 3.58MHz, picture defects such as moire, cross-colour, and dot interference become more pronounced. This is because of the greater likelihood of interaction with the monochrome picture signal at the lower sub-carrier frequency.
Susceptablity to Hue Fluctuation - Variations in the colour subcarrier phase cause shifts in the displayed colour, requiring that the TV receivers be equiped with a Hue adjustment to compensate.
Lower Gamma Ratio - The gamma value for NTSC is set at 2.2 as opposed to the slightly higher 2.8 defined for PAL. This means that PAL can produce pictures of greater contrast.
Undesirable Automatic Features - Many NTSC TV receivers feature an Auto-Tint circuit to make hue fluctuations less visible to uncritical viewers. This circuit changes all colours approximating to flesh tone into a "standard" fleshtone, thus hiding the effects of hue fluctuation. This does mean however that a certain range of colour shades cannot be displayed correctly by these sets. Up-market models often have this (mis)feature switchable, cheaper sets do not.
PAL Advantages
Greater Number of Scan Lines - more picture detail.
Wider Luminance Signal Bandwidth - The placing of the colour Sub-Carrier at 4.43MHz allows a larger bandwidth of monochrome information to be reproduced than with NTSC.
Stable Hues - Due to reversal of sub-carrier phase on alternate lines, any phase error will be corrected by an equal and oposite error on the next line, correcting the original error. In early PAL implementations it was left to the low resolution of the human eye\'s colour abilities to provide the averaging effect; it is now done with a delay line.
Higher Gamma Ratio - The gamma value for PAL is set at 2.8 as opposed to the lower 2.2 figure of NTSC. This permits a higher level of contrast than on NTSC signals. This is particularly noticable when using multi-standard equipment as the contrast and brightness settings need to be changed to give a similar look to signals of the two formats.
PAL Disadvantages
More Flicker - Due to the lower frame rate, flicker is more noticable on PAL transmissions; particularly so for people used to viewing NTSC signals.
Lower Signal to Noise Ratio - The higher bandwidth requirements cause PAL equipment to have slightly worse signal to noise performance than it\'s equivalent
SECAM Advantages
Stable Hues and Constant Saturation - SECAM shares with PAL the ability to render images with the correct hue, and goes a step further in ensuring consistant saturation of colour as well.
Higher Number of Scan Lines - SECAM shares with PAL, the higher number of scan lines than NTSC.
SECAM Disadvantages
Greater Flicker - (See PAL)
Mixing of two synchronous SECAM colour signals is not possible - Most TV studios in SECAM countries originate in PAL and transcode prior to broadcasting. More advanced home systems such as SuperVHS, Hi-8, and LaserDisc work internally in PAL and transcode on replay in SECAM market models.
Patterning Effects - The FM subcarrier causes patterning effects even on non-coloured objects.
Lower monochrome Bandwidth - Due to one of the two colour sub-carriers being at 4.25MHz (in the French Version), a lower bandwith of monochrome signal can be carried.
Incompatibility between different versions of SECAM - SECAM being at least partially politically inspired, has a wide range of variants, many of which are incompatible with each other. For example between French SECAM with uses FM subcarrier, and MESECAM which uses an AM subcarrier
Now you know and we all know that is half the battle. YOOO-JOE!!!
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Originally posted by EThugg
You must have me confused with Bozco :D. Sorry nO-One and Sammy, but Asia, and the Americas both use NTSC, that alone is the majority. I\'m not sure about Africa though...
If everyone used the same standard format, it\'d be much easier...
WTF i havent said anything to you to piss you off,see you start most of the fights, even Samwise relizes your ignorant
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Originally posted by Bozco
WTF i havent said anything to you to piss you off,see you start most of the fights, even Samwise relizes your ignorant
Actually, we equally start ****. You often talk some **** after I say anything pro-XB or I complain about something w/PS2.
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Originally posted by Bozco
WTF i havent said anything to you to piss you off,see you start most of the fights, even Samwise relizes your ignorant
Please leave me out of comparisons between you and ETHugg. You might not like the result.
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Back to PAL vs NTSC.
I think the reason it takes them so long to swap games to PAL is because of Sony. We have seen some games literally appear almost the same time as the NTSC versions, prooving it can\'t take that long. It is just Sony, why else did they make the console so it can only play its own region in games and DVDs ? Its so they can spread the releases about to suit there market stratigy, and unfortunatly that means us Europeans get the bad deal.
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Well RichGUK,
and that strategy stinks pretty much IMO.
A company like Sony deliberately pissing off
a whole gaming continent.
If that\'s true I\'d say they\'re trying to loose
the console war over here ! :rolleyes:
Knotter8