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Author Topic: There really is no debate....  (Read 2620 times)

Offline Ginko
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There really is no debate....
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2002, 10:59:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bozco


I can\'t debate with your opinion, but I can agree with the bias, I can\'t think of one aspect Sega GT will beat GT3 on


I can\'t explain it, otherwise I would lay it out for you.  I am a huge Sega fan though, that\'s a large part of it....

Offline mm
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There really is no debate....
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2002, 11:00:58 AM »
Quote
I am a huge Sega fan though


glad we see eye to eye on at least one thing
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Offline nO-One

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Re: There really is no debate....
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2002, 11:21:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by NPYYZ
The facts speak for themselves The most powerfull system is without a doubt the X-box. Just wait a few months, it\'s still new. Wait until the game developers utilize it\'s full potental. Then we will see................

The PS2

Specs

CPU: 128-bit Emotion Engine at 294.912MHz
Main Memory: 32MB Direct RDRAM
Graphics: Graphics synthesizer at 147.456MHz, embedded cache VRAM--4MB
Sound: SPU2 with 48 channels plus software, sound memory--2MB
Input/Output Processor: CPU Core--PlayStation CPU+ at 33.8688MHz or 36.864MHz (selectable)
Media: CD-ROM and DVD-ROM
Disc Speed: 24x CD-ROM, 4x DVD-ROM
.........................................................................................................

The X-BOX


The Specs
CPU:

Intel Pentium III 733MHz processor with Streaming SIMD Extensions
Graphics Processing Unit:
300MHz custom 3D graphics processor by nVidia
300 million micropolygons/particles per second
150 million transformed and lit polygons per second
100+ million polygons per second sustained performance (shading, texturing)
4 simultaneous textures
Compressed textures available at 8:1 compression
Full-scene anti-aliasing
Memory:
64 MB of RAM (unified memory architecture)
6.4GB/sec memory bandwidth
Storage:
8GB hard drive
4X DVD drive with movie playback
8MB memory card
Sound:
Custom 3-D audio processor
64 Audio channels
3-D Audio support
Midi/DLS2 support
AC3 encoded game audio
Network:
100 MBPS Ethernet Port
Optional Modem
Input/Output:
4 game USB controller ports
Expansion port
Proprietary A/V connector
Video:
DVD movie playback
1920x1080 maximum resolution
HDTV support

Wow, it\'s odd how you want to fight with specs but mention just about 1/3rd of the PS.2 spec list, I mean you mention the I/O ports on the X-Box but sadly fail to mention the PS.2 I/O ports, and you talk about the amazing Xbox polygon power, well the PS.2 is no slouch.

And I may be wrong on this, but wasn\'t the GPU originally intended to be at 300Mhz, then it was lowered to 250Mhz and then finally to 233Mhz?

Sadly I must tell you this that horsepower wise the Xbox wins, but technoligy wise the PS.2 slaughters the Xbox the paralell design of it exists nowhere else. And the PS.2\'s teeny weeny lil\'l 128 bit slaughters the Pentium, I mean it\'s a MIPS proc SGI uses MIPS processors in their workstations and coupled with the vector units we have the most powerful cpu of all the consoles.
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Offline Ashford
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There really is no debate....
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2002, 11:26:36 AM »
Really great way to debate...

Someone lists the games they like/are interested in and you respond with "THOSE GAMES SUCK!!!", then post your own list.

Can you say "lamer"?
July 2002: If you had bought $1000.00 worth of Nortel stock one year ago, it would now be worth $49.00. Enron, $16.50 left. Worldcom, $5.00 left. If you had bought $1,000.00 worth of Budweiser beer one year ago, drank it all and turned in the cans for the 10 cent deposit, you would have $214.00. Based on the above, my current investment advice is to drink heavily and recycle.

Offline Heretic
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There really is no debate....
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2002, 01:20:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ashford
Really great way to debate...

Someone lists the games they like/are interested in and you respond with "THOSE GAMES SUCK!!!", then post your own list.

Can you say "lamer"?



Maybe debating games isn\'t so lame. Consider a genuine mismatch in specs, PSX vs DC and one year after launch the DC was still being outsold by a system over 5 years older. More advanced, online ready, same price, legendary rep for making good games yet still painfully whipped by an outdated system, ancient in silicon age reckoning. It\'s got to make you wonder about the power of good games vs the power of specs alone.

nO-One on the other hand took up the challenge as if it were sincere and eloquently made a mockery of the tenet ‘there really is no debate\' by offering pertinent spec info.  Cheers for nO-One! Funny, I was sure no one would bother and I turned out to be right, in a lopsided fashion. It will be a wonder if the junior member can reply without seeming even more of a stooge than the specs and title of this thread would have us believe. My guess is the only aim was to cause trouble.

Offline ooseven
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There really is no debate....
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2002, 01:26:59 PM »
BACK in the REAL world the POST SHOULD read something like this

There really is no debate....


PS2 28 million SALES

X box 1.5 million

PS2 out selling Both the X box and Gamecube combined !


// me hands Bill Gates the 2nd place CUP ! then take it of him and hands ot to Nintendo.......... then takes it of them and hands it to Bill Gates then take it of him and hands ot to Nintendo.......... then takes it of them and hands it to Bill Gates .

Damn wont they make up their mind who wants to be second ;)
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Offline Ashford
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There really is no debate....
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2002, 02:21:00 PM »
Heretic...

What are you talking about???

I\'m talking about how lame it is to respond with "THOSE GAMES SUCK" when debating which system is better. Especially when that person posts his/her own list.

Great way to argue...
July 2002: If you had bought $1000.00 worth of Nortel stock one year ago, it would now be worth $49.00. Enron, $16.50 left. Worldcom, $5.00 left. If you had bought $1,000.00 worth of Budweiser beer one year ago, drank it all and turned in the cans for the 10 cent deposit, you would have $214.00. Based on the above, my current investment advice is to drink heavily and recycle.

Offline Heretic
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There really is no debate....
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2002, 03:59:01 PM »
Ashford...

I was talking about the subject of the debate being switched from specs to games being justified. If your intent was only to point to the lameness of "yours sux vs mine rox" then ok, sorry, my mistake.

Since I didn\'t quite catch the "THOSE GAMES SUCK"  quote anywhere in this thread, I hope you can forgive my pointing out in a case where the gap in specs is not so wide, a debate over consoles based on games rather than paper power makes sense.

Offline SonyFan
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There really is no debate....
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2002, 05:36:13 AM »
Trog pretty much ended what little bit of a specs debate there was. Obviously, you can\'t have an intelligent debate with someone who dosen\'t even have half the facts. Trog forgot one point though, many of those specs aren\'t directly compairable. You have to have an indepth knowlage of the programing archetecture of each machine and the capabilities of the hardware involved.

NPYYZ the Xbox\'s 733mhz Celeron is more powerful than the PS2\'s 300mhz EE. (Well the mhz are doubled!) Sorry, but the EE (128bit RISC) spanks the Celeron (32bit CISC) preformance wise.. and I don\'t think there\'s ANY debate about that. Unless it\'s over which can handle the new version of Microsoft Office Suite better. Not to say that the Xbox on the whole is less powerful, but face it.. the Nvidia GPU carries the Xbox.

Streight spec numbers, taken at face value, are decieving.
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Offline NPYYZ
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« Reply #39 on: January 26, 2002, 06:18:54 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bozco


Plz, even if graphics were the main thing to games xbox still isn\'t showing this power yet, but what you must remember is that there is this little thing called Gameplay


Great point, have you tried the X-box? At the moment I only own 2 games , Project Gotham Racing and NFL Fever 2002 and both of these games are the smoothest best reacting games I have ever played. I have also rented several other X-Box games and I have yet to play one, which did not impress me.

You want game play , can you say HALO!!!!!!!!
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Offline mm
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« Reply #40 on: January 26, 2002, 06:24:19 AM »
gameplay yes, for a little bit, then you realize that yer going thru the same levels three times.  :rolleyes:  but you forgot to add eyestrain and cramped hands to that list also

oh and nfl fever 2002 = sux0r
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Offline NPYYZ
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Re: Re: There really is no debate....
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2002, 07:50:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by nO-One

Wow, it\'s odd how you want to fight with specs but mention just about 1/3rd of the PS.2 spec list, I mean you mention the I/O ports on the X-Box but sadly fail to mention the PS.2 I/O ports, and you talk about the amazing Xbox polygon power, well the PS.2 is no slouch.

And I may be wrong on this, but wasn\'t the GPU originally intended to be at 300Mhz, then it was lowered to 250Mhz and then finally to 233Mhz?

Sadly I must tell you this that horsepower wise the Xbox wins, but technoligy wise the PS.2 slaughters the Xbox the paralell design of it exists nowhere else. And the PS.2\'s teeny weeny lil\'l 128 bit slaughters the Pentium, I mean it\'s a MIPS proc SGI uses MIPS processors in their workstations and coupled with the vector units we have the most powerful cpu of all the consoles.


Ah we have someone who actualy knows a thing or two. I admit the spec\'s I posted for the PS2 were limited but that\'s all I could seem to find on line.  Let\'s do a little comparing shall we......

We all know about the X-box\'s superior Graphics, Nvidia\'s NV2A GPU, and yes the PS2 does have an impressive Graphics-processing Architecture, but it doesn\'t match up to the NV2A

X-Box GPU speed 233 MHz     PS2 GPU speed 147.456 Mhz
.........................................................................................................

Ah the questionable Processor...
the X-box pent lll 733 MHZ processor
The PS2 features a 294.912 MHZ central CPU
Even the Game cube has a 405 MHZ power PC which is slightly more powerfull then the PS2
.........................................................................................................

Lets talk Dolby Digital 5.1 for a bit.
The X-box has dolby digital 5.1 sound in gameplay. The PS2 proudly trumpets the fact that it supports Dolby Digital 5.1 sound, but what it doesn\'t say is that it only supports it during DVD movies and FMV sequences.
.........................................................................................................
Lets talk memory.
I bought my X-box, $299.00, and one game, $50.00 ,and brought it home and was able to play and save my game so I would not have to start it all over again.  I bought my PS2, $299.00 ,and one Game$50.00 and brought it home and I realized I had to go spend another $34.00 for a memory card. then soon that memory card was full and I need another and another, but my XBOX has 50,000 blocks of memory right on the hard drive, which will never be full I think I can safely say.
.........................................................................................................

lets talk DVD, you will like a part of this one.
Yes with my X-box i had to run back to the store and spend $24.00 for the DVD kit so i could watch movies. With my PS2 I could watch them right away with no added cost. Although i had to spend a few bucks to access the DVD feature, I have to say it looks much better to be able to operate the DVD feature with a remote when company is over, you know instead of having to use a gamepad with a cable no less.
Oh yeah and the X-box is the only console with progressive DVD scan which means the X-box actually improves the output of the DVD medium by using the extra resolution afforded by HDTV sets.
.........................................................................................................
Max Resolution.......
On an HDTV the X-box max resolution of 1920x1080 is a glimpse of what is possible. X-box features like bump mapping add full scene anti-aliasing look truely incredible at those resolutions.
One key problem with the PS2 architecture is memory issues.Becuase of this it is extremely difficult for game developers to use high resolution textures in their PS2 games. Even if the PS2 could match the x-box\'s highest\'s resolutions, (which it can\'t) the texture would still look dark and grainy.
.........................................................................................................
Boy I really would like to be able to listen to some of my CD\'s while playing a game. Oh wait with the X-box CD copier I can. Sorry PS2 fans.
.........................................................................................................
Hey 3 of my friends are coming over and we all want to have a game of Madden 2002, oh that\'s right we will use the X-box insted of the PS2. The X-box allows 4 controllers to be connected at once without any adaptors.
.........................................................................................................
Want more?????  OK

Polygon Throughput::::::

I know there just numbers but the X-box can push 125 million polygon per second, Almost twice as many as the PS2.

I know you will most likely say that polygons aren\'t important, hell I would to if the x-box was so out powered by it\'s competitors, but it\'s not.   Look at the environments, the characters, and the objects in the game. The more polygons a console can push, the better things look.
........................................................................................................
Pixel Shaders::::
For those of you who may not know a Pixel shader is a graphics function that calculates visual effects on a surface one pixel at a time. This means that the graphics processor must render, light, shade, and color millions of pixels for each frame, at 60 frames per second. For most graphics processors this is too much of a load, but not for the X-box.  The importance of pixel shaders is that they help the game developers turn the typical, flat surfaces in video games into textured, organic, and realistically bumpy-looking surfaces.  Oh you know how I mentioned how Pixel shaders are too complex for most graphic processors? Well the PS2 and Gamecube are part of that group.
.........................................................................................................
You know I could go on and on, there is much more the X-box can do that the PS2 can\'t, but i think i have made my point. Now I think it\'s time for a game of the graphicly stunning , and superior racing game, Project Gotham Racing found ONLY ON XBOX.
Xbox - live it......

Offline NPYYZ
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« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2002, 08:01:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SonyFan


NPYYZ the Xbox\'s 733mhz Celeron is more powerful than the PS2\'s 300mhz EE. (Well the mhz are doubled!) Sorry, but the EE (128bit RISC) spanks the Celeron (32bit CISC) preformance wise..

Streight spec numbers, taken at face value, are decieving.


I believe it\'s a Pentium lll  Not a Celeron   much different.
Xbox - live it......

Offline Ryu
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There really is no debate....
« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2002, 08:04:39 AM »
People are wasting far too much time responding to this thread.  You think specs rule the world, that\'s great for you.  I\'m sur eyou\'re one of those people that think the Pentium 4 is the best processor out there, G4\'s suck because their clock speeds are only around 1 ghz, and Athlon\'s are terrible because they are cheaper.  That\'s great for you, but to the people who know how to squeeze performance and fun factor out of their machines, console, PC or otherwise, how "Fast" a processor is on a board means nothing to them if it can\'t even hold a candle to another systems game library.  Want something to talk about?  Talk about why so many PS2 games that are out there are must-buys on a system that is "graphically inferior."  Please, you keep playing Project Gothem, I\'ll just go online with GT4 and Auto Medolista.

Thread closed for ignorance on NPYYZ\'s part.  Everyone here who has played games for a sizeable amount of time, let alone your 20+ years of "extensive experience," knows that specs don\'t mean trash and for a guy who has been "playing games all his life," you sure do know very little.  Remember, brain farts are not tollerated on this forum. :)

PS NPYYZ, do not spam the forum by posting multiple times in one thread consecutively.  Combine your replies into one post in the future.
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