N.O.W. (National Organization for Women) has made a statement regarding GTA3.

Ryu -

I think Hollywood has glamorized prostitution.  Pretty Woman, Leaving Las Vegas, Wild Side.  I\'m sure there are some high-class prostitutes that enjoy their job, and I\'m sure they make up about .5% of total prostitutes.

90% of (U.S.) prostitutes are survivors of sexual abuse as a child, which among other things, leads to extremely low self-worth.  A majority of those 90% were also beaten as children.  Most prostitutes don\'t think they have a choice, and most of them start before they\'re 16 years old.  75% of prostitutes have attempted suicide.  As for cash, most of it goes to the pimp.  Most street hookers DO have a pimp, as they need the "protection."

http://www.icasa.org/uploads/prostitution.pdf

As far as pornography, yes, it is a form of prostitution, with higher-paid, more organized pimps.  There is more money, and more glamour for women, compared to street hookers.  But even so, it\'s another industry filled with dysfunction and drugs.  And come on guys, how many women in porn really look like they\'re having a good time?  How many of them do you think have orgasms on screen?

I don\'t even want to IMAGINE what the statistics are in places like Bankok.

That is probably true Sara, but N.O.W. has to be very ignorant if they think that getting rid of GTA3 will help the current prostitution situation in any way.  I like some of the things they fight for, but I definitely do not agree with this one.  IMO, they are being too close minded and aren\'t seeing the whole picture.  They are fighting against something that neither helps or hurts the current real-world prostitution/violence situation.

I don\'t agree with what they\'re saying in the article about the mafia hits, drugs, and carjacking.  Hell, they would have to petition a lot more games than GTA3.  My problem is the way in which the game encourages and rewards picking up hookers, i.e. degradation of women.

I do agree with you that taking the game off the market isn\'t going to help, especially with the millions of copies that are already in circulation.  There is no such thing as bad publicity, as they say.  In my opinion, the hooker part of the game should have never been allowed in the final release.

[GmanJoe]

Hey.....what\'s wrong with a little loving in a violent world like Statton Island and Liberty City?

It\'s ironic that out of all the violent games out, they go after the one where a man goes out lookin\' for love....and love heals all! And when he\'s hurt, he goes lookin\' for some lovin!

For the record, I never beat up the women. I had way too much money anyway....and I never bought the weapons or ammo since I picked up all the hidden packages! And the cars I stole were from the Mafia or Diablos!

[Titan]

NOW doesn\'t even have the information right. They said that the drug SPANK is taken by the character. They said the only way to get health back is to have sex with prostitutes (which reminds me, Sara, you don\'t have to have sex with the prostitutes you know). They said some other things but can\'t remember them and I\'m too lazy to check back at the article. If they are going to rant about a game, they should atleast get their info right.

[Bobs_Hardware]

Originally posted by Sara
My problem is the way in which the game encourages and rewards picking up hookers, i.e. degradation of women.

But its just a small novelty feature in a game.  I think Ryu raised the valid point that prostitutes exist, then why should games ignore them?  particularly in a game that is all about drugs, crime, violence and hookers?  It makes perfect sense that they are a part of the game, and its just a small novelty feature that i really dont think encourages the use of prostitutes in the real world.  You brought up you\'d like to see him catch crabs etc. etc.  Personally, i think this would have been a great ideas for the developers to put in and pretty much everyone else would love it to.  Why?  Because its a silly little novelty in the game thats not meant to be taken seriously.

If anything is encouraging prostitution its the hollywood movies you spoke of which dd glamour and sparkle to the world of prostitution.

In the artcile they do admit they haven\'t even played the game, nor seen the feature they are complaining about;
"People who have played the game say that the beating is bloody and done with a baseball bat that you can feel in your hands through the PlayStation controller. "

Can\'t they at least play the game before judging it?

(does anyone see echoes of discrimination here?  - turn a woman down for a job because you want to hire a man - predjudice, discrimination...... Slate a game without playing it.... FEMINISM.)

Hmmm.... double standards?

Plus in GTA-3 you are not forced to pick up prostitutes - you can collect health power ups, you are not forced to kill prostitites. So don\'t do it if it bothers you....

And as for sobbing about kids playing it - its meant for adults! Parents/Shops etc shouldn\'t sell this game to kids, anymore than they should let kids watch adult rated films - would this group demand certain films are banned because kids can see them (even though they shouldn\'t)???

Yeah the content of GTA-3 is controversial - but then so are the gangster movies it has drawn influence from.  But its a great piece of entertainment that responsible people who know right from wrong can enjoy and escape for a couple of hours.

But the most controversial thing about GTA-3 in my opinion is a group of people demanding that the game be banned without having even SEEN it.

[GmanJoe]

Feminists need to be beaten with a bat (or run over or sniped) and have their money stolen.

"He ain\'t no gentleman, that one!" Old woman walking the streets of Grand Theft Auto 3.

[Titan]

Originally posted by scarydonkey
In the artcile they do admit they haven\'t even played the game, nor seen the feature they are complaining about;
"People who have played the game say that the beating is bloody and done with a baseball bat that you can feel in your hands through the PlayStation controller. "

Can\'t they at least play the game before judging it?

(does anyone see echoes of discrimination here?  - turn a woman down for a job because you want to hire a man - predjudice, discrimination...... Slate a game without playing it.... FEMINISM.)

Hmmm.... double standards?

Plus in GTA-3 you are not forced to pick up prostitutes - you can collect health power ups, you are not forced to kill prostitites. So don\'t do it if it bothers you....

And as for sobbing about kids playing it - its meant for adults! Parents/Shops etc shouldn\'t sell this game to kids, anymore than they should let kids watch adult rated films - would this group demand certain films are banned because kids can see them (even though they shouldn\'t)???

Yeah the content of GTA-3 is controversial - but then so are the gangster movies it has drawn influence from.  But its a great piece of entertainment that responsible people who know right from wrong can enjoy and escape for a couple of hours.

But the most controversial thing about GTA-3 in my opinion is a group of people demanding that the game be banned without having even SEEN it.

WORD. Tryed to say that. I agree with you 100%. Play the game before you judge it. \'You can\'t judge a book by it\'s cover\'. Guarenteed they wouldn\'t be pushing it to be banned if it wasn\'t popular.

stupid.. jeez.. I don\'t care.... my parents and me KNOW it\'s fake..

who cares...

It seems like Sara should join N.O.W.

Even though most of you disagree with what NOW has to say, you still have to respect their views.

Also, its nice to see a womens perspective on this.  The thread would be pretty stupid, if we didn\'t even get to read a females response to some of the opionions we have been getting.

Now, as far as the game goes, yes it is wrong.  Face it, it glorifies violence, it gives the option to pretty much kill anything with two legs, and it has a ton of suggestive themes, but thats why the M rating is there.  

Which brings me to the point of conflict.  NOW claims that people under the age of 17 are playing this game, which is most likely true.  However instead of warning parents, and suggesting that they should probably be with their child whenever they purchase a game, they start saying that the game should be taken of the shelves and banned.

If thats the case, then why not ban every R movie thats released.  Why not ban adult magizines, or anything that might have suggestive themes.  The logic just doesn\'t make sense.  

Oh well, it was still an intersting article, and its nice to see that the women of NOW are still active in trying to protect kids or something.

Originally posted by Sara
 My problem is the way in which the game encourages and rewards picking up hookers, i.e. degradation of women.

I do agree with you that taking the game off the market isn\'t going to help, especially with the millions of copies that are already in circulation.  There is no such thing as bad publicity, as they say.  In my opinion, the hooker part of the game should have never been allowed in the final release.

Ok well like what has been said is that hookers do exist. And you can beat everybody in the game so you must exclude the fact that you can beat them down for money cause you can do that to everyone. Hookers "do" people and thats what they do in the game. Many people like sex and pretty much all sex is rewarding to most, ( unless certain "small" issues happen to "pop up"). So since you really dont get any physical sensation you are instead rewarded with health, (you feel all nice and tigley). And hey these gals can hold their own. Ive been beat by a hooker before and they can box! (even thought i killed her in the end , just like everyone else). So really if you have a beef go to to the hookers. Maybe they didnt have the same opportunities but hell that doesnt "always" mean you have to sell your body.

what?
Dont you pick up hookers and beat them to death to get their money?
Thats is a way of living here in Sweden, i promise you.
(Especialy for us, vikings)




(I hope you get the irony :clown: )

Ok.  I finally read this article.  And it\'s actually a well written one too.  But it may be in vain for the most part.  I know of someone that has this game and when I saw them playing it the first thing that I asked them was, "Should you be playing this game?"  I haven\'t played it myself yet, but I did watch them play it for a while and I DID like it.  But I didn\'t see all of this stuff that poeple are talking about.  Maybe they didn\'t know about it at the time because I sure didn\'t.  

I can understand N.O.W.\'s point.  And I can agree with them to a certain extent.  But it\'s not Rockstars nor is it Sony\'s fault that younger kids are playing these games, it the retailers that sell it to the kids and/or the parents that but it for them.  I blame no one else.  If the parents aren\'t making a conscious effort to monitor what their kids are playing or doing in their homes then they are to blame, not the game industry or anyone else.  Most of these games are for rent in Blockbuster or by some other means.   If the parents aren\'t sure if the game is suitable for their children they can alway used this option to find out themselves orthey could watch the kids play it to see what it is about.  There are no excuses why they can\'t find out more about the games other than they are being lazy or they just let their kids have their way when ever they want.

Unfortunately, the parents always seem to be the forgotten factor most of the time in situations like these.  I\'m an adult of 35 years, I can purchase and play what I please.  If there is something that I don\'t like about a game then I just don\'t buy it, I exercise my right of self-censorship.  But then again I also know the difference between reality and fantasy.  I\'m old enough to know that no matter how much road rage I may experience because there is a senoir citizen driving 35 mph in the fast lane that I can\'t blow them out of the way with and energy blast.  That\'s only in Dragonball Z.  :evil:   But kids do pick up on things, and very quickly at that.  And they are "shaped" by things that they are exposed too.  I can\'t say that some litltle boy won\'t pick up a bat and go and beat some poor litlle girl in the head to get his lunch money back because this IS something that CAN be done.  And these days we\'ve seen a lot.  Too much as a matter of fact.  How can you not think about Columbine (sp?) high school?  They found all of this stuff in that kids home that pointed out that he was trouble IF the parents would have been paying attention.  But instead they tried to blame the game "Doom" and the movie, "The Basketball Diaries."  

Sara, SmallLady, you have a great arguements and I\'m glad that you visit this board.  I hope that both of you and the other female gamers will continue to post here with us even if you don\'t agree with what some of the guys here are saying.  It\'s great to have you all here to counter our arguements.  

Guys, I have nothing to against N.O.W. or what they are saying.  The only thing that I feel that they are doing wrong is placing the balme where it should really be emphasized...on the parents and the retailers.

With that said.  I think I\'ll head out this morning and actually buy the game to play it myself to see what all of the fuss is about.  I had heard that they were going to take out all of the "bad" stuff but then I read that they didn\'t.  What\'s the truth?