Can we win the War on Terror?

Probably because he hasn\'t done anything illegal....

Well let me rephrase that, they haven\'t proved that he has done anything illegal. Correct me if I\'m wrong here, but you can\'t really just go hey, I don\'t like what you are saying, get the hell out of my country.  Especially if he is THIS outspoken.  You\'ll just piss MORE people off.

Oh and LIC, yes I was being sarcastic.  I thought that was quite apparant.

From the same article I linked above:

Bakri said he would like Britain to become an Islamic state but feared he would be deported before his dream was realized.

"I would like to see the Islamic flag fly, not only over number 10 Downing Street, but over the whole world," he said.

This is the mentality we are dealing with.  They can\'t be reasoned with, they can\'t be bought off, they will continue to use terror to get what they want:  Western society ruled by Islam.

He is right though, he will be deported before that is even a remote possibility.

That\'s fine and dandy, but he hasn\'t physically done anything illegal.  Unless you change laws, he hasn\'t done anything wrong.  Deportation of an "innocent" man isn\'t going to help the situation.  Neither is locking him up.  No matter how bad the mentality is.  The problem needs to be resolved like you spoke of before, get the islamic leaders to condemn this mentality.

I dont know why the news even reports what these people say....

We don\'t need to be putting this stuff on the tv/internet for terrorists to see. It\'s just going to make them feel more like it\'s their job to attack western society.

Originally posted by GigaShadow
Islamic terrorism can be defeated, but a major part of that is to have mainstream Islam fight it in their Mosques.  How can you say that it wouldn\'t work?  If people\'s minds weren\'t being filled with this crap from so many sources their numbers would decline.  ...  Please don\'t say it can\'t be done, because it can.

That\'s exactly the kind of education I am talking about. Trying to change the views of fundamentalists is like trying to poke through titanium with your fingers. The key is surrounding their children in an environment that does not pervert the meaning of Islam and spew nonsense about Western culture. If we can nip the bud of extremism while it\'s still in infancy, we can defeat Islamic terrorism. You cite the KKK, which is a clear and perfect example. Only a few decades ago, the KKK\'s mentality was widely shared in southern states. Its death can be attributed to children who since then grew up in a setting that taught that racism and religious bigotry were wrong.

Originally posted by GigaShadow
What is this guy still doing in the UK running around freely?

....

This is the crap I am talking about.  Why would the UK government let this asshole run around and spout his shit?  Why?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A76-2005Feb4.html

This is the price democracies have to pay for free speech.

Everything that is worth having comes at a price.

[clips]

i guess it\'s just like some kkk people holding a rally or such,..it\'s their right, i\'m sure i would look at some muslim cleric the same way if he was poppin s**t about bringin down america or sayin s**t on the level of "expect more attacks"....yo, i\'ve said it plenty of times, america is not perfect, and yea there\'s still alot of racial injustice, but it\'s still thee best place to live and if some muslim radical is outside poppin\' s**t about there\'s gonna be more attacks or knows of some idividuals that might execute it, i would gracefully lace his ass up and send him to the FBI with a big ass timberland imprint in his face...

i still have have family that live here and anybody..muslim radical or otherwise that threatens anyone to me on that level,..has to go...especially in the way alot of arabs are looked at today,(yes it\'s wrong but it\'s a reality that if america is attacked again, most likely it\'s gonna be someone of middle eastern desent).... it\'s hard to believe in this day and age and in america that if somebody seen a muslim cleric talkin s**t like the one in london, that nobody would be ready to whoop his ass....

[SirMystiq]

No we can\'t. It\'s impossible and it will never happen.

We are fighting a religion here. Religion, beliefs or ideas are impossible to break. Religion brings and ties people together, regardless of what some of the group does. For example, if a certain group of Christians blew up some Jewish temple, then the Jews wanted to deport all Christians in their country, the Christians will band together, even if they condemn each others acts, they will stick together.

Giga, you are suggesting we throw gasoline on a fire that is already too intense to put out. Seriously, your ideas are as prejudice and intense as you have ever been. And what is with this sudden "call it like it is" BS that alot of conservatives are spouting? Did someone on Fox say it or something? I been hearing alot of things like that lately, like:

"They are not insurgents, they are terrorist! Call them what they are"

Geez, Ok Giga and the rest, let\'s put out banners outside our homes that say "Fuck you Islam"

I\'m sure that will help.

Originally posted by SirMystiq

We are fighting a religion here. Religion, beliefs or ideas are impossible to break. Religion brings and ties people together, regardless of what some of the group does. For example, if a certain group of Christians blew up some Jewish temple, then the Jews wanted to deport all Christians in their country, the Christians will band together, even if they condemn each others acts, they will stick together.

Mystiq, I\'m sorry, but your arguments are ridiculous.

Muslims are not hopelessly bound together, following each other into a jihad like lemmings. Their religion is not blind faith. They have coalitions like the World Islamic League that express contempt for Muslim extremists. It is a largely peaceful religion.

I, for one, as a Christian, would not "band together" or side with those of my faith who chose to use it for death or destruction. I have a mind of my own, as do Muslims.

You cannot call this a war on faith. You cannot argue blanket statements like "religion, beliefs or ideas are impossible to break." And you shouldn\'t voice your uneducated opinions on subjects because as far as I am concerned, its not helping. People like you are part of the problem.

[SirMystiq]

Originally posted by Ghettomath
Mystiq, I\'m sorry, but your arguments are ridiculous.

Muslims are not hopelessly bound together, following each other into a jihad like lemmings. Their religion is not blind faith. They have coalitions like the World Islamic League that express contempt for Muslim extremists. It is a largely peaceful religion.

I, for one, as a Christian, would not "band together" or side with those of my faith who chose to use it for death or destruction. I have a mind of my own, as do Muslims.

You cannot call this a war on faith. You cannot argue blanket statements like "religion, beliefs or ideas are impossible to break." And you shouldn\'t voice your uneducated opinions on subjects because as far as I am concerned, its not helping. People like you are part of the problem.

What happened during the Crusades?
What is happening right now with Christianity being a big part of politics?

All a group of people need is a cause and a leader and people will follow. They will flock with their group regardless of the actions as along as enough of the people believe their actions to be honest and true in the name to whomever they are praying too.

You are very foolish to say that we are not fighting a faith. We are, I do not see how you can prove other wise. These people are dying and killing in the name of their faith and their leaders see us as the enemy of their faith. Why else would somebody kill themselves in the name of God?

If it is not a faith we are fighting, then what are we fighting? A group of people with bad insticts that just happen to be of a certain faith?

And, just out of curiosity, how am I a problem?

Originally posted by SirMystiq
No we can\'t. It\'s impossible and it will never happen.

We are fighting a religion here. Religion, beliefs or ideas are impossible to break. Religion brings and ties people together, regardless of what some of the group does. For example, if a certain group of Christians blew up some Jewish temple, then the Jews wanted to deport all Christians in their country, the Christians will band together, even if they condemn each others acts, they will stick together.

Giga, you are suggesting we throw gasoline on a fire that is already too intense to put out. Seriously, your ideas are as prejudice and intense as you have ever been. And what is with this sudden "call it like it is" BS that alot of conservatives are spouting? Did someone on Fox say it or something? I been hearing alot of things like that lately, like:

"They are not insurgents, they are terrorist! Call them what they are"

Geez, Ok Giga and the rest, let\'s put out banners outside our homes that say "Fuck you Islam"

I\'m sure that will help.

^lmao!  that\'s going in the funny folder

Originally posted by SirMystiq

If it is not a faith we are fighting, then what are we fighting? A group of people with bad insticts that just happen to be of a certain faith?

And, just out of curiosity, how am I a problem?

Are you saying it was a religion we were fighting when we invaded Iraq? Because the last time I checked, the War on Terror includes Iraq.

This is exactly wherein the problem of this war lies: There are no clear cut definitions of who, or where we are fighting. This makes it easier for people, like you Mystiq, to turn this into a war of whatever we want.

Can America alone win the war on terror?  No.  Terrorism is a global problem, and any solution to it must involve the international community.

We were attacked on 9/11 by fundamentalist extremist who view our nation\'s modernism and policy as evil.  They are fighting what they perceive as the last remaining super power whose wealth and strength threaten and defy what they believe.  Not only that but also a nation whose government is perceived as corrupt and greedy the world round.  (Whether or not the government is corrupt I’m not willing to argue, so don’t start)  They are not attacking our religion, and our “struggle against extremist” in Iraq is not about attacking their religion or beliefs.  We are dealing with criminals, plain and simple.

In the future, a long time from now, the War on Iraq will register as a horrible decision that costs lives and accomplished little more than remove a brutal dictator from rule.  One, I might add, that had nothing to do with the attacks on 9/11.  What of all the other harmful dictators in the world?  Those who inflict themselves upon their people and harbor ill will towards others, and not to mention have weapons of mass destruction.  Do we invade them too?  At what costs, and to what end?  

Our strike on Iraq has actually done more harm than good.  In pursuing our unilateral war with our “we’ll go it alone if we have to” attitude, the perception of a unipolar world where the United States sits atop everyone else and acts on its own accord has furthered any resentment or hatred than what was present before the war.  Our occupation in Iraq, somewhere we never belonged, has created a new generation of terrorist and has made us an even hotter target than ever before.  We are not safer than we were pre-9/11, and Iraq is more unstable than ever.  Even worse is that there is no end in sight.

Any effort to minimize terrorism will have to be an international effort where everyone involved is acting in unison with the same agenda.  Anything else is a distraction and a great waste of effort.  I said this a long time ago and my mind hasn’t changed.

Please don’t take my criticism of our nation’s government as unpatriotic or anti-American.  I’m going to leave you with a quote:

Patriotism means loving your country and its best ideals, enough even to oppose it when it’s grievously wrong.