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Author Topic: Election determines fate of nation  (Read 1382 times)

Offline Ace
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Election determines fate of nation
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2004, 03:57:20 AM »
Core,

My honest opinion is that if we cut and run now we are screwed far more than if we stay. Things are not going well but the sky is not falling either.

If you read the reports Bush did not lie. I think the best observation I\'ve heard so far is that the people around him pushed him into this war but for good reason. I\'ve asked this question in another thread but it got overlooked.


Question:

You are the prez. You are being fed intel that tells you a threat is gathering. Members of congress agree with you that the threat is there. You have leaders of other countries concurring. You think back to one of the worst terrorist attacks that this country has ever been witness to. You have a decision to make to attack this gathering threat.

What do you do?


Anyway, there are things I disagree with the prez like not securing our borders, spending etc.
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Offline videoholic

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Election determines fate of nation
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2004, 04:03:47 AM »
...secure the borders,  [/B][/QUOTE]

It\'s easy to do and free.  Can\'t believe Bush neve thought to do that.


Quote
Originally posted by Eiksirf
quickly train Iraqi forces (outside of Iraq if need be),  


Good idea.  May as well just continue with the program that is already in place.

Quote
Originally posted by Eiksirf
attract more allies physically and monetarily,  


Yeah, because they are just ready to jump in their and help us out.  They are just waiting for Bush to leave.  Right....

Quote
Originally posted by Eiksirf
eat a ham sandwich, begin to withdraw troops in 6 months...

ZZZZzzzzzz

You\'re right though, no one knows his plan.... :rolleyes: He only mentioned it live on tv in front of 40 million viewers.

-Dan


His plan is either A) Already being done. B) Not capable except for in a fantasy world, or C) Too much freaking money to not hold up with his other plan, to not raise taxes on  the middle class.
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Offline Coredweller
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Election determines fate of nation
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2004, 08:40:44 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ryu
You gotta love a man who watches Full Metal Jacket and pulls quotes from it and uses them to justify a really big point.  In fact, it\'s on right now on HBO on the west coast.  Been watching it for the past 45 minutes.
I also paraphrased Bill Maher from the "Real Time" episode that was on earlier last night.  I guess you missed that one?  :p

Full Metal Jacket communicates some truths about Vietnam, but if you really want to get a clearer picture, read The Vietnam Wars by Marilyn Young, or Close Quarters by Larry Heinemann.
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Offline Coredweller
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Election determines fate of nation
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2004, 09:02:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ace
Core,

My honest opinion is that if we cut and run now we are screwed far more than if we stay. Things are not going well but the sky is not falling either.

If you read the reports Bush did not lie. I think the best observation I\'ve heard so far is that the people around him pushed him into this war but for good reason. I\'ve asked this question in another thread but it got overlooked.
Hey, I agree that if we leave now we are screwed.  I said so above.  I just don\'t trust Bush to make the correct decisions to get us out of this mess.  His method of getting us into Iraq was shortsighted and ill conceived.

You say he did not lie, but what do you call it when he gives press conferences and speaks to the american public, and he always refers to the absolute worst-case presented in the intelligence reports, and then he exaggerates it further?  That was their pattern.  Take whatever was the worst, most extreme scenario presented in the intelligence, and then make it sound a little worse, and then use that as the justification for the actions they already decided they wanted to take.  A thinking person would have realized that when you\'re dealing with uncertain intelligence information, the extreme scenarios are not likely to be true.  The scenario in the middle of the curve is most likely to be the real situation.

So he and his team decided at some point that they wanted to invade Iraq for whatever reason.  Maybe they figured "if there\'s ANY risk that any of this information is true, then we MUST invade because any risk is too much."  However, they failed to consider that there\'s a risk involved in being wrong also.  They didn\'t stop to think for one minute that they might be wrong, and what would happen if they were.  This is one of Bush\'s big character flaws, in my opinion.  He thinks he cannot be wrong, he is never wrong, and he doesn\'t devote one millisecond of time thinking about that possibility.  If he is ever wrong, he has a ring of yes men around him to come up with justifications and rationales to explain it away.

Why was Bush unable to answer a question about what mistakes he has made?  Every normal human being has to answer a question like that in almost every job interview, but Bush is somehow exempt from it?  I don\'t know if he\'s ever questioned himself and his own actions in his entire life.  He needs to acknowledge that he made a mistake, and take responsibility for it, not continue to blame the intelligence sources.

That in a nutshell is why I don\'t trust the man who CAUSED THE PROBLEM to now fix it.  I don\'t care if Bush and Kerry\'s plans for Iraq are similar.  Those plans are going to have to change based on circumstances, and Bush has proven that he cannot make rational choices based on information given to him.
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Offline Ace
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Election determines fate of nation
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2004, 01:29:28 PM »
Well, Iraq was a little more complicated than just faulty intel. If I were the prez I would have pressed the issue of Iraq not taking the resolutions seriously enough and that would have been my main thrust for invading. The intel would have given me even more to do just that.

On the mistake thing I agree. But as pol I do understand why he did not want to mention any mistakes. It was pretty clear that the media was trying to sandbag him and when a pol sees that they go into quiet mode. Could he have handled that question in a much better way? Of course and it irritates me that he could not come up with something plausible.
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Tony Blair\'s Address to Congress

Offline clips

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Election determines fate of nation
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2004, 04:44:06 PM »
it baffles me that nobody ever mentions the rift between colin powell & rumsfield & bush..when they presented the intelligence to powell..he stated that he would not go to the u.n. with circumstantial evidence...for a while there was a huge rift between the three of them. he stated the intel that was before him was very weak..the evidence they had was not concrete...

but eventually he ended up going to the u.n. with it and even tho france china and russia and germ..seen the same info they decided an invasion was not the best way to go...which it wasn\'t so after the major world bodies didn\'t agree with bush, he arrogantly stated that we\'ll go it alone and stated that none of the said countries would have any stake in rebuilding or fiinacial profitability in iraq..

low and behold after the supposed mission accomplished fiasco bush went right back to the u.n. asking for help...listen people don\'t forget..bush basically said f**k you...and stated we didn\'t need anybody..well a year and a half and over 1000 body bags later where are we?...in a quadmire of bullS**t now we have to win,..if we packed up and left the iraqi\'s to fend for themselves, it will really be open season on all u.s. interests across the globe...
« Last Edit: October 16, 2004, 04:45:55 PM by clips »
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