Dick Cheney on Iraq....

Besides, if we controlled the oil fields with American interests in mind, my gas prices should have gone down.

By the way, our control of Iraqi oil fields (such as it is) is not for the betterment of "American interests" as you define them.  Energy companies like Exxon Mobil, Shell, and BP are in it for their own profit, not for "American interests."
 
The question is, which interests do Bush & Cheney represent?  Think about who paid for their election in campaign contributions, and who they will be working for before and after serving in the executive branch, and you\'ll begin to piece it together.

[Titan]

Core, you do bring up some good points for your point of view. I\'ve heard all those things before and reflected on them and I still just don\'t believe them. I think, like anything else, its possible but I just personally don\'t believe them. I think with all the secretive stuff, corruption and other things going on right now, who knows who is right. I really hope you are wrong though because if you\'re right, this just proves the decrepit state this world is in, more so than it already is.

[clips]

it\'ll be pretty interesting to see what general petrayis(spel) has to say on his assessment of iraq sometime in september, bush has already stated indirectly that regardless of what the general states, he will not call for the withdrawl of troops,....i don\'t know, some say the situation over there is gettin\' better,and some say otherwise, one thing i do know is that the u.s. cannot maintain this level of fighting and troops at the same time. Somethin\'s gonna have to give sooner or later.

[Titan]

it\'ll be pretty interesting to see what general petrayis(spel) has to say on his assessment of iraq sometime in september, bush has already stated indirectly that regardless of what the general states, he will not call for the withdrawl of troops,....i don\'t know, some say the situation over there is gettin\' better,and some say otherwise, one thing i do know is that the u.s. cannot maintain this level of fighting and troops at the same time. Somethin\'s gonna have to give sooner or later.

I\'ve heard its getting better and worse too. It depends who you ask also. When I ask military personel like my roomie, they say its getting better. When I ask a whiny liberal, they say its getting worse. I take the middle ground and say things are the same

Things are so fucked up now, that even if it gets a little better, that\'s still practically meaningless.

I believe there is no way we can stabilize that country to prepare it for our departure.  Like I\'ve said before, no matter how long we stay there, 5 years, or 50 years, the insurgents will always be there one day longer.

[Titan]

Things are so fucked up now, that even if it gets a little better, that\'s still practically meaningless.

I believe there is no way we can stabilize that country to prepare it for our departure.  Like I\'ve said before, no matter how long we stay there, 5 years, or 50 years, the insurgents will always be there one day longer.

Which does make sense for a pullout. Its embarrassing for our country but so is Bush. Every day it seems more and more insurgents spring out of no where. We need to train their military and start pulling out. It seems Iraq is gonna go into a state of civil war.

Even when our country was founded, it was still run by the elite. The ideals were a bit different then though. They were all about freedom then. They followed a libertarian philosophy. Now today, privacy and freedoms are being challenged and surveillanced. I say some shit about the government, I\'m gonna be watched like Lennon. The government can listen in on my phone calls if they suspect me of activity. I can\'t smoke a joint on my own property in peace. A cop can come right on my personal property to arrest me for "abusing" my own body. I\'m sorry but my body is my property. I should do what I want to it. I dunno. I still consider myself very patriotic but within the last few years, I started to dislike a lot of things about our government. I feel we need to go back to our roots. Stuff just is getting way to out of hand.

I think being patriotic and faith in the government are two different things.

You can be a real patriot and be totally against the government. Why? Because simply you care about a better nation

And unfortunately governments in almost every country care about special interest groups and their selves.

[Viper_Fujax]

Even when our country was founded, it was still run by the elite. The ideals were a bit different then though. They were all about freedom then. They followed a libertarian philosophy. Now today, privacy and freedoms are being challenged and surveillanced. I say some shit about the government, I\'m gonna be watched like Lennon. The government can listen in on my phone calls if they suspect me of activity. I can\'t smoke a joint on my own property in peace. A cop can come right on my personal property to arrest me for "abusing" my own body. I\'m sorry but my body is my property. I should do what I want to it. I dunno. I still consider myself very patriotic but within the last few years, I started to dislike a lot of things about our government. I feel we need to go back to our roots. Stuff just is getting way to out of hand.

yea..we should go back to the good ol\' days when there wasnt any technology. the founding fathers even knew we would progress technologically and morally, so they made the constitution open-ended the way it is. There\'s is no such thing as going back to our roots because times are way too different now. that\'s why the middle east is in trouble because they\'re too stubborn/idiotic to adapt to the 21st century.

I have nothing to hide..why would I care if someone\'s tapping my phone. I\'ve made random jokes like \'i bet the CIA is listening...IM GOING TO KILL THE PRESIDENT" and no cia guy has come to my door......yet

and the whole random ass weed comment just seemed out of place.

[Titan]

I think being patriotic and faith in the government are two different things.

You can be a real patriot and be totally against the government. Why? Because simply you care about a better nation

And unfortunately governments in almost every country care about special interest groups and their selves.

That\'s not what it is. I\'m very patriotic and love my country. That has never changed. I have two American flags in my cars rear side windows. I just don\'t like the state of the country at the moment. Doesn\'t make me unpatriotic. If we went to WWIII and I was drafted, I\'d go. I\'d root for my own team. I still root for my team in Iraq and hope they kick ass. But its starting to get to a point where I question my old beliefs. I\'d like to see what the general says in the coming months before I say if we need to pull out or not. What annoys me the most is some people call me unpatriotic and unAmerican because I don\'t support Bush.

and the whole random ass weed comment just seemed out of place.

It was totally in place. I don\'t believe police officers should be able to come on your private property because they see you smoking a joint. Here in Jersey they can and I think that\'s the same in all the other states. They can come on your property even if you\'re just drinking and start writing tickets. I think for a capital offense like murder, rape and the other really big ones they obviously should. But I\'m not hurting anyone by having a beer on my front lawn with a couple buddies or smoke a joint on my front lawn.