McCain\'s acceptance speech viewed by more people than Obama\'s....

[Titan]

so the smaller states have a larger percentage of the vote. it\'s not that black and white about the electoral college being bad. If we didnt have it, then california, new york, and a few others would decide the president

But California and New York states carry more weight than the smaller ones anyway. They have more votes in the electoral college.

[GmanJoe]

again you dont pay attention b/c I am not voting for either.

I know you won\'t vote. But it\'s the fact that you downplay any positives for McCain. Just like clips. He ignored that McCain had more viewership than Palin\'s acceptance the night before even though Palin didn\'t say anything on McCain\'s night.

[Titan]

Palin also had I think a million less viewers than Obama. That\'s pretty damn good for a VP nominee. I think they said that that is a record for a VP speech.

[Viper_Fujax]

But California and New York states carry more weight than the smaller ones anyway. They have more votes in the electoral college.

yea, because there\'s still the idea of more people getting more representatives, or else you\'re taking too much away from the larger states just because they happen to be larger. But with the electoral college, the percentage of how much the large states dominate is lowered by a lot, so that wyoming and montana have a reason to vote. obviously you can\'t make the two even, even in electoral college votes, because then 95% of cali wouldnt have a point to vote

it\'s still kind of bs. what, like 35% of people vote (i cant think of the number but its insanely low), and only 51% of those people win, so no matter what, the country doesnt really decide the president like the idea intended

edit: I guess it was like 60% in 2004..still low but not 35%-low. Swore it was an embarrasing number, but that was like 2 years ago i saw the stats

[Titan]

Which is why I think that the populous should decide it, not the electoral college. It seems like voting doesn\'t matter to me. The 2000 election, more people wanted Gore as president (which I still wonder what would have happened after 9/11 with him) but he didn\'t get it. Maybe he would have done a better job than Bush? Maybe Gore would have done the same things as Bush and he would have low approval ratings? Maybe Gore would have been the best president the states have ever seen. Kind of off on a tangent but the point is the people wanted him in office and he didn\'t get it because of the electoral votes. But I see your point but states like California still offer more weight than smaller states so they still help decide the president moreso than smaller states.

[Viper_Fujax]

yea, i dont know. I\'m partially playing devils advocate, I get what you\'re saying. I\'d have to look into it a lot more. If communities truely affect eachother and people are able to convince their neighbors (in the mr rogers sense), then that\'d be the only way i see larger states dominating the polls as a problem because they would dominate the vote too much. but that would have to be a huge size of influence. But if everyone who votes uses their own brain to make a decision, then going by the whole populous of the country makes more sense.

i dont see us changing tradition though.

[Titan]

Yeah and at least 1/3 of the population is retarded.

The Electoral College was created for two reasons. The first purpose was to create a buffer between population and the selection of a President. The second as part of the structure of the government that gave extra power to the smaller states.

The first reason that the founders created the Electoral College is hard to understand today. The founding fathers were afraid of direct election to the Presidency. They feared a tyrant could manipulate public opinion and come to power. Hamilton wrote in the Federalist Papers:

It was equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice. A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations. It was also peculiarly desirable to afford as little opportunity as possible to tumult and disorder. This evil was not least to be dreaded in the election of a magistrate, who was to have so important an agency in the administration of the government as the President of the United States. But the precautions which have been so happily concerted in the system under consideration, promise an effectual security against this mischief.

(See All of the Federalist 68)


Hamilton and the other founders believed that the electors would be able to insure that only a qualified person becomes President. They believed that with the Electoral College no one would be able to manipulate the citizenry. It would act as check on an electorate that might be duped. Hamilton and the other founders did not trust the population to make the right choice. The founders also believed that the Electoral College had the advantage of being a group that met only once and thus could not be manipulated over time by foreign governments or others.

The electoral college is also part of compromises made at the convention to satisfy the small states. Under the system of the Electoral College each state had the same number of electoral votes as they have representative in Congress, thus no state could have less then 3. The result of this system is that in this election the state of Wyoming cast about 210,000 votes, and thus each elector represented 70,000 votes, while in California approximately 9,700,000 votes were cast for 54 votes, thus representing 179,000 votes per electorate. Obviously this creates an unfair advantage to voters in the small states whose votes actually count more then those people living in medium and large states.

One aspect of the electoral system that is not mandated in the constitution is the fact that the winner takes all the votes in the state. Therefore it makes no difference if you win a state by 50.1% or by 80% of the vote you receive the same number of electoral votes. This can be a receipe for one individual to win some states by large pluralities and lose others by small number of votes, and thus this is an easy scenario for one candidate winning the popular vote while another winning the electoral vote. This winner take all methods used in picking electors has been decided by the states themselves. This trend took place over the course of the 19th century.


While there are clear problems with the Electoral College and there are some advantages to it, changing it is very unlikely. It would take a constituitional amendment ratified by 3/4 of states to change the system. It is hard to imagine the smaller states agreeing.

Also, as a democrat inclined to downplay the significance of McCain and Palin and their tv accomplishments, I\'m not surprised. This country has had huge turn outs, if not an outright victory that one time, for Republican presidents the last 8 years.

I don\'t get it and I don\'t like it. But after all that time, it\'s not surprising.

I know you won\'t vote. But it\'s the fact that you downplay any positives for McCain. Just like clips. He ignored that McCain had more viewership than Palin\'s acceptance the night before even though Palin didn\'t say anything on McCain\'s night.

So I have to say something about him?

I don\'t say much about Obama.

I just like to start shit.


McCain is old and white...happy now?

[GmanJoe]

So I have to say something about him?

I don\'t say much about Obama.

I just like to start shit with anything positive for McCain.


McCain is old and white...happy now?

Thought I\'d fix that for ya so it sounds more genuine.

[Jumpman]

But they left out a key part of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TiQCJXpbKg

[Paul2]

lol

[clips]

But they left out a key part of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TiQCJXpbKg

S**t is too funny...:rofl:...