Malice ? Where are you ? ....

i don\'t think nintendo has anything to prove...we know these titles are coming....XBOx on the other hand needs(ed) every bit of steam it can get. it was a suprise for most that it wasn\'t around, from what i\'ve read.

[BizioEE]

Originally posted by IronFist


I do want to comment on the "how is it possible they did it with unfinished hardware? I\'m blown away" thing.  Correct me if I\'m wrong, but the Xbox has been suffering from some serious FPS problems.  Some games have been struggling to make it up to 30 FPS.  If Malice is the same way, then the final hardware will only make it run at a decent speed.

...not exactly IronFist ....X-Box absolutely does not suffer from any serious FPS problems...people seem to not realize they\'re complaining about incomplete Games on incomplete hardware...With final hardware (NV2a + 6.4Gb/s system board + MCPX + AMD\'s Hypertransport...all of which have a GREAT effect on performance!), developers will be achieving significantly better performance than before and not ""the final hardware will only make it run at a decent speed""

...maybe I was overdoing with that statement...but it was only a little excitement...don\'t weigh my words

Originally posted by BizioEE
...not exactly IronFist ....X-Box absolutely does not suffer from any serious FPS problems...people seem to not realize they\'re complaining about incomplete Games on incomplete hardware...With final hardware (NV2a + 6.4Gb/s system board + MCPX + AMD\'s Hypertransport...all of which have a GREAT effect on performance!), developers will be achieving significantly better performance than before and not ""the final hardware will only make it run at a decent speed""

...maybe I was overdoing with that statement...but it was only a little excitement...don\'t weigh my words

But Xbox games have been suffering from serious FPS problems.  I\'ll try to find a source.  From what I heard, a lot of Xbox games were not even running at 30 FPS.  If the dev kits that the developers have are about half as powerful as the final Xbox will be, wouldn\'t it make sense that the developers would want to use that extra power to get their game running at 60 FPS instead of having a game that looks brilliant in pictures, but plays like crap?  If they invest that power to graphics instead of speed, then the latter will happen.

There have been framerate issues, but they were all due to the CPU handling all the sound not being optimized for the dev kits. And in HALO\'s case(This game was really suffering from some bad framerate problems), CPU handling all the sound, not optimized for hte dev. kits, and Networking all slowed it down. The CPU was just doing too much at E3.

All of these problems will be fixed by launch, though. Bungie has confirmed that HALO will be running at a smooth 60fps at launch., even in multiplayer mode... If they can get that game running at a silky smooth 60fps, I dont see why any of the other games cant.

Originally posted by Nu Gundam
There have been framerate issues, but they were all due to the CPU handling all the sound not being optimized for the dev kits. And in HALO\'s case(This game was really suffering from some bad framerate problems), CPU handling all the sound, not optimized for hte dev. kits, and Networking all slowed it down. The CPU was just doing too much at E3.

All of these problems will be fixed by launch, though. Bungie has confirmed that HALO will be running at a smooth 60fps at launch., even in multiplayer mode... If they can get that game running at a silky smooth 60fps, I dont see why any of the other games cant.

That\'s what I\'m saying.  The Xbox games will run at 60 FPS, but there graphics will not look much better than what we are seeing right now.  Developers will use the extra power that they are getting from the final dev kits to make the game run faster instead of making it look better.

Originally posted by IronFist

That\'s what I\'m saying.  The Xbox games will run at 60 FPS, but there graphics will not look much better than what we are seeing right now.  Developers will use the extra power that they are getting from the final dev kits to make the game run faster instead of making it look better.

Haha... You think so?

Since the MCPX will be included in the final dev. kits reducing a lot of stress off of the CPU, with an extra T&L unit(Gives the thing almost twice the geometry/polygon pushing power) and pixel/vertex shader, I think theres a lot more power to spare after pushing the framerates up a notch.

Unless the developers take the lazy way of things and decide not to use that extra horsepower... Its up to them.

"why wont they add a mouth to that girl? it looks stupid" - Metal_Gear_Ray

Well, I dunno, I think it looks pretty cool without her having a mouth. It adds a bit of unique style to the game, or at least makes it seem as if Argonaugts is putting their own twist on the Anime style (Large eyes, small facial features, large hair) to create something born of both western and eastern influences.

I just can\'t imagine any mouth they could put on her that would actually improve the overall character design.

[BizioEE]

Originally posted by Nu Gundam

Haha... You think so?

Since the MCPX will be included in the final dev. kits reducing a lot of stress off of the CPU, with an extra T&L unit(Gives the thing almost twice the geometry/polygon pushing power) and pixel/vertex shader, I think theres a lot more power to spare after pushing the framerates up a notch.

Unless the developers take the lazy way of things and decide not to use that extra horsepower... Its up to them.

Right!

...here a little example...""high-end Xbox programming will be different from current 3D. Because of the power of the shaders and the vast bandwidth difference between the CPU and GPU, the key to Xbox graphics performance will be getting the CPU out of the loop by using static meshes and moving calculations from the CPU to the vertex and pixel shaders. With this approach, a vertex might consist of a compressed 6- or 12-byte coordinate and a compressed 4- or 6-byte normal, with lighting and texture coordinates calculated by the GPU; there\'s a gigabyte or more of bandwidth to spare with the resulting 10- to 18-byte vertices....""

...Give developers time to learn the X-Box before delivering rash judgements...

And now we wait for the "Graphics dont matter, gameplay is what counts" comments.

Originally posted by Nu Gundam
And now we wait for the "Graphics dont matter, gameplay is what counts" comments.

Game play counts, not graphics

I\'m not a computer techi or anything, so you guys are probably right.  But let me put it this way.  If the Dev kits that the developers are using have 50% of the power of the final dev kits, and the games are running at half the speed they should(around 30 FPS), wouldn\'t it make sence that they would need the other 50% of the power to make it run at 60 FPS?

And I\'m not saying that we won\'t see better than what we are seeing now in the Xbox\'s whole life.  I\'m saying that the launch titles won\'t look too much better than what we are seeing now.  DOA3 will look how it looks now, Malice will look how it looks now, Munch will...you get the idea.  The developers will use the extra 50% power to get their games running at a good framerate.

[BizioEE]

Originally posted by IronFist
I\'m not a computer techi or anything, so you guys are probably right.  But let me put it this way.  If the Dev kits that the developers are using have 50% of the power of the final dev kits, and the games are running at half the speed they should(around 30 FPS), wouldn\'t it make sence that they would need the other 50% of the power to make it run at 60 FPS?

And I\'m not saying that we won\'t see better than what we are seeing now in the Xbox\'s whole life.  I\'m saying that the launch titles won\'t look too much better than what we are seeing now.  DOA3 will look how it looks now, Malice will look how it looks now, Munch will...you get the idea.  The developers will use the extra 50% power to get their games running at a good framerate.

...well...I\'m not a computer techi too ...but I think the assumed 50% of the real power of the X-Box is a very simplified reality...I mean...the P3 733 + NV2a + MCPX + UMA...in a word...the X-Box...is more than 2 times as powerful as the previous unfinished kits(I think )...and when developers will start to realize how to fully push this Console...I think we\'ll see Far better Graphics than Halo running at 60 FPS(in 2,3 years)...it\'s only my opinion......
...it should be interesting if some "real prof" came here to explain this issue....for example Dr Yassam...or everyone who knows.....

Originally posted by IronFist
I\'m not a computer techi or anything, so you guys are probably right.  But let me put it this way.  If the Dev kits that the developers are using have 50% of the power of the final dev kits, and the games are running at half the speed they should(around 30 FPS), wouldn\'t it make sence that they would need the other 50% of the power to make it run at 60 FPS?

And I\'m not saying that we won\'t see better than what we are seeing now in the Xbox\'s whole life.  I\'m saying that the launch titles won\'t look too much better than what we are seeing now.  DOA3 will look how it looks now, Malice will look how it looks now, Munch will...you get the idea.  The developers will use the extra 50% power to get their games running at a good framerate.

I\'m just curious how an XBox can compete with a PS2
just every time i look at the XBox i see a PC, and i laugh  RIiiiighhhT   a gaming platform. Fo sure :rolleyes:  

Originally posted by Toxical
I\'m just curious how an XBox can compete with a PS2
just every time i look at the XBox i see a PC, and i laugh  RIiiiighhhT   a gaming platform. Fo sure :rolleyes:  

Well the PS2 is turning out to be more of a computer than the Xbox is.  The PS2 with all the add-ons is going to cost as much as a PC too.

just every time i look at the XBox i see a PC, and i laugh  RIiiiighhhT a gaming platform. Fo sure

As my friend Herrenvolk says, "RIGHTTTT"..........