Is anyone else as confused as I am about this generation\'s console war?

First of all, we have the PS2.  It has been very successful, but has not had enough stellar titles in the past to keep it going.  IMO, it is going to have amazing games this fall though, and has had/will have great games this summer.  Sony is doing great, so what could possibly mess Sony up now?  After thinking about it, I am still not sure how well any of the consoles will do this fall.  Sony could blow it with this new harddrive, but they could also be very successful (and very lucky) with it.  Them getting online games first could help them a lot, but only if people are willing to pay for it and all the add-ons.

The Xbox is a very risky system, but has a lot of potential and could surprise all of us (or most of us at least ).  It has a harddrive and support for Broadband games which will come out in the Spring.  They also have DVD watching capabilities for an added $30 - which includes a remote.  They are going to have a huge marketing campeign too.  They will have some good/great launch games(Munch and DOA3 are what I want to play), but is it enough to compete with what the PS2 will have to offer at the same time?

Last, but definately not least, is the NGC.  It has a very familiar name, Nintendo, and very familiar games.  This alone will sell tons of systems with or without advertising (even though Nintendo will definately advertise).  Their target audience is a huge chunk of the gaming world, and them being the only ones targetting that group will help them even more (unlike the PS2 and Xbox - both fighting for the older audience).  It selling for only $200 will make it the parents\' choice for Christmas.  It can also play DVD\'s, for an extra $100 that is.

So who the heck is going to win?!  I can\'t figure it out.  If any of the companies are making mistakes, they could easily fix the mistakes and be successful.  I don\'t think there really is a way to know who will win based on what we know now.

I guess what I said really isn\'t console debating, so, um, err, go PS2!

I think the market will have a near exact 3 way split.

PS2=Mainstream older market, (very) small % of hardcore gamers
GC=Younger and hardcore (traditionalist) market
XB=hardcore (progressive) market, older mainstream, and pc gamers thinking XB is a PC for your tv (those fools... still, a nice intro to the console world for some of em...)

I\'m not sure who will be exactly where, but I think unless one of the screws  up horrendously, were looking at a 30 something % market share for each.


All speculation on my part though...

"and pc gamers thinking XB is a PC for your tv"

Krimson, take it from me, there are NO PC Gamers that think the Xbox is a PC for their TV\'s. And even if they did, they most definatley would not buy it for that reason. The Xbox is a Console and only stoopid (note word stupid, ie. not all) ConsoleGamers would think that its a PC for the TV.

-------------------
Now, Sony has done everything possible to squander their considerable lead on the market. They\'ve, to put it mildly, disapointed developers to the point of defection. And following the controversial hardware shortage, they\'ve started yet another crisis with the outrageously high priced internet addons. (Addons which the Xbox comes with, out of the Box) Worst of all, they\'ve allowed games to be released prematurely. (most notably, Square\'s Bouncer, damn that was disappointing!)

If Microsoft\'s launch games prove to be AAA, Sony\'s throne in the industry will be compromised.........

I have to agree with AVy......PC gamers are not even close to thinking this....there are not stupid.  Anyone who plays Real time strategy games is smart enough to know the difference between a console and a PC.

Yeah it\'s all confusing to me too. I mean anything can happen. One the one hand you have ps2 with it\'s past success, the xbox which has all the potential in the world to be the best, and Nintendo which has it\'s following cult of fans;)

But  anyways. I can\'t wait til November. I believe xbox is going to be huge. I mean no other console has been able to compete with ps2 on the same level yet. And I think XboX is that first. I know gamecube is going to comeout roaring.
 I am just so excited I wish I could afford them both at launch.  This will be the best time to be a gamer I am glad I have  ps2 and will soon have xbox, and later sometime buy a gamecube so I won\'t miss out on any games.

And ps2 and the ,lcd screen,keyboard,mouse, and aol. I mean video gamers could care less about all that stuff. A video game console was not meant to surf the next and email and instant message. And as for hdd they should just give up. They stand to lose to much money on the thinig already. Not that many fans are going to buy it and thus developers are not going to suport it. Only way I see it taking off if they sell it at a price of 30$.

IronFistThey will have some good/great launch games(Munch and DOA3 are what I want to play), but is it enough to compete with what the PS2 will have to offer at the same time?

I mean who is too say those ps2 games will be good? I mean we have let to  play them.  So all you can do is speculate and say they will be good. I mean I know mgs2 will be killer. It\'s a AAA title. But everything the other titles coming out on ps2 have to be proven first. Just like the xbox titles coming out at launch.  All I am saying is you can\'t say a title is good, becuse you want it too be. I mean lets just hope that all the games be innovated and excellent in their own way. Because a lot of those titles that are good usually don\'t get that much advertising and are lost in the shuffle and many gamers miss out on of them. I guess time will tell, but it is going to be a excellent time in gaming.

Here in Europe the Media are getting a bit
upset with PS2 because with the pricy HDD
the upcoming LCD screen, the keyboard and
mouse the PS2 is becoming more like a PC.

So they say NGC stays true to the videogame
player while Sony makes lots of promises to them.
Only as of now bringing a few good games, and
making the PS2 look like a PC with these expensive
add on\'s
I guess their question to Sony is : \'Games first for gamers and PS2 a strict gamesconsole ( with a dvd playability ) or a pc like media machine with moderate
games that don\'t even have Full Anti-Alias ?
( believe me European gamingmags are still trippin
over the jaggies thing )

My own opinion is that I think that Sony indeed should
put games at first. The thought of the PS2 as media machine with some good games but most moderate is
kinda dangerous I think.

Knotter8

PS2=Mainstream older market, (very) small % of hardcore gamers
GC=Younger and hardcore (traditionalist) market

Hahahah. I can\'t let this go.

Yeah, I have a PSX/PS2, and I\'m "older" (32). Sooooo... I\'m less "hardcore" than some snot nosed punk that started playing games in the 8/16 bit days?!?!

Hahahahaha..........

People ape this crap all the time and I am sooo sick of it. People confuse popular (ps) with casual. I have news for those who still repeat this mistake. Yes, by the very laws of statistics if a console has more users there naturally will be more so-called casual users, but that by no means insures that the percentages based on a ratio measurement would end up favoring one console or another.

For example( fictional #\'s for ease) :

1 million Dreamcasts. 200,000 of those are "casual".

10 million PS2\'s. 2 MILLION of those are "casual".

These two figures are Identical since the total number of units has a diparity factor of X10. So until someone actually does a scientific detailed poll, which first off would have to determine what excatly is "hardcore", any speak of which fans are more hardcore than the other is total ass-talk.

I was playing pong and Odyssey 2 before many of the so-called hardcore kids were even born..... I guess I\'m still casual though:rolleyes:

The only sorry A$$ thing i see with XBox is that you have to buy the remote to watch DVD\'s. Give me a break, you pay your dough, and you still have to cough up money for DVD functionality? WTF!!!?

Originally posted by CygnusXI


Hahahah. I can\'t let this go.

Yeah, I have a PSX/PS2, and I\'m "older" (32). Sooooo... I\'m less "hardcore" than some snot nosed punk that started playing games in the 8/16 bit days?!?!

Hahahahaha..........

People ape this crap all the time and I am sooo sick of it. People confuse popular (ps) with casual. I have news for those who still repeat this mistake. Yes, by the very laws of statistics if a console has more users there naturally will be more so-called casual users, but that by no means insures that the percentages based on a ratio measurement would end up favoring one console or another.

For example( fictional #\'s for ease) :

1 million Dreamcasts. 200,000 of those are "casual".

10 million PS2\'s. 2 MILLION of those are "casual".

These two figures are Identical since the total number of units has a diparity factor of X10. So until someone actually does a scientific detailed poll, which first off would have to determine what excatly is "hardcore", any speak of which fans are more hardcore than the other is total ass-talk.

I was playing pong and Odyssey 2 before many of the so-called hardcore kids were even born..... I guess I\'m still casual though:rolleyes:

My, aren\'t we quick to jump to conclusions! Pretty immature for a 32 yo. I say \'older\', I mean anyone over 18. I don\'t exclude older from hardcore, there\'s plenty of cross-over. I was being general, that should have been obvious.

And much more of the PS2 base is casual, your nuts if you think 8 million are more hardcore. Especially with PS2 (which is hated a lot by the supposed \'hardcore\' community).




As for my \'pc gamers\' comment, sorry, I guess I misread the situation. I know a lot of PC gamers are excited about XB who aren\'t usually console gamers, so I assumed it was because of the (mis)perception of a lot of people the XB  has a lot in common with PC\'s. I apologize if I offended any PC gamers. I now realise I\'m a moron.


Tox-MS has said unlike  Sony with their \'entertainment machine\', the want to focus totally on games. Removing the DVD playback cut $30 from the price tag, and keeps the core system sans addon, game only. Plus, the remotes competitivly priced, are you really gonna want to use the controller for watching movies?

Well, you go ahead and call me immature if you want. I rebutted your assanine statements about the generilzations of who\'s h/c and who\'s not.

It\'s good to know that the supposed h/c community on the net has all the facts to base their statements on:rolleyes:

Yeah....I must be nuts to think that 8 million people love games as much as the self proclaimed h/c elite..

The fact is, even if the PS2 (or any other platform) was a persons FIRST console, they can still be totally awestruck and from that moment on they become avid gamers. Your logic belies that fact. But again, I\'m just being immature.

p.s: Why don\'t you get stat\'s on which console has the most imported software sold in the US, since being H/C obviously importing software would be a precursor. Hmm..

Also, I think that Dodge drivers are more hardcore than Chevy drivers..... See the lameness.

To try and label one console as a h/c gamers console while labeling the others as casual gamers console is ludicrious.

But If you actually want to do this stuff-- get the facts first. Hearsay, is hearsay and kids on the net are-- well, lets just say fancifull and leave it at that.

Originally posted by CygnusXI
Well, you go ahead and call me immature if you want. I rebutted your assanine statements about the generilzations of who\'s h/c and who\'s not.

It\'s good to know that the supposed h/c community on the net has all the facts to base their statements on:rolleyes:

Yeah....I must be nuts to think that 8 million people love games as much as the self proclaimed h/c elite..

The fact is, even if the PS2 (or any other platform) was a persons FIRST console, they can still be totally awestruck and from that moment on they become avid gamers. Your logic belies that fact. But again, I\'m just being immature.

p.s: Why don\'t you get stat\'s on which console has the most imported software sold in the US, since being H/C obviously importing software would be a precursor. Hmm..

You rebutted with your opinion, not any facts. I didn\'t say that you couldn\'t be old and h/c, so your \'rebuttle\' had no validity.

I\'m not sure what you mean by the h/c being online and having all the facts. Are you being sarcastic? Cause most h/c gamers do.

Yes, you are nuts. A lot of people bought the hype, not a game system, and it\'s sitting there with Madden and SSX and nothing else. You don\'t seem to have a clue about the market...

I wasn\'t referring to 1st timers only. I\'m talking about the majority, who buy what ever has the newest, most hyped sports games. That makes a large part of the market. I never said no one would be awestruck by PS2 and start a life filled with gaming.

PS: Currently the DC. Previously the most popular import systems were Saturn and SNES. That doesn\'t include older import only systems, but that\'s the jist of it.

Ok. and your assesment was based on fact then??

You gave your OPINION and I rebutted with mine. You have no facts-- neither do I.

That was the whole damn point man.

Perception does not beget fact

ps. I\'m talking about SOFTWARE, not systems. Since the legendary h/c gamer buys lots of games--- any casual joe can import a SYSTEM and let it sit and collect dust.

p.s.s This whole argument grows tiresome. You have your opinion(backed by the hordes of online troops spouting the Sony is casual mantra) and I have mine.

Either way, unless one of us gets off our asses and researches this phenomena by taking into account everything from hours played, genres of games, systems owned to God knows what, all we have is our OPINIONS. And that\'s it!

Agreed??

Originally posted by CygnusXI
Ok. and your assesment was based on fact then??

You gave your OPINION and I rebutted with mine. You have no facts-- neither do I.

That was the whole damn point man.

Perception does not beget fact

ps. I\'m talking about SOFTWARE, not systems. Since the legendary h/c gamer buys lots of games--- any casual joe can import a SYSTEM and let it sit and collect dust.

p.s.s This whole argument grows tiresome. You have your opinion(backed by the hordes of online troops spouting the Sony is casual mantra) and I have mine.

Either way, unless one of us gets off our asses and researches this phenomena by taking into account everything from hours played, genres of games, systems owned to God knows what, all we have is our OPINIONS. And that\'s it!

Agreed??

1-I stated my opinion, and you rebutted something I never said.

ps-I mean software.

pss-So your saying that the game magazines and market research groups (like the IDSA) are all just stating opinion? Sorry, anyone who isn\'t lying to themselves knows PS2 is the \'mainstreamers\' console. My prediction of the market share is just opinion. My prediction of what will make up most GC and XB users is opinion. My knowledge through reading everything I come across about games tells me my assessment of the PS2 market is true at this point. My assessment of it continuing to be that way is opinion.

I want to agree with you, but it just doesn\'t seem to work out that way...

Magazines and market resarch will tell you that the PS/PS2 is the mainstream console, I am not disputing that. My point is, if there is a finite number of the elusive h/c gamers, why is it not feesible that they are distributed fairly evenly between the consoles.

That\'s what I really think. Give or take a few on either side I believe that Nintendo, Sega, and Sony have roughly the same percentage of these h/c gamers. The only thing is, is that Sony has a larger user-base so therefore they are bound to have more casuals.

That, however doesn\'t afford them the label of the "casual gamer machine", at least in my mind. That just means they ARE more mainstream/popular, but also carry the same weight of "real" gamers as any other console. Calling Sony\'s machines casual gamer machines is a mis-nomer that dismisses a whole chunk of their users. Same as calling Segas machine a h/c machine(they have casuals also). Both of these terms in reference to a particular console are misleading. I guess I just don\'t like inaccurate generalzations.

I hope this clarifies what I\'m trying to say. It\'s a new day and my mind isn\'t half fried with anticipation of GT3 and FF:TSW.

I know this isn\'t the best analogy, but please bear with me:)....

Say next year a new thing takes over the market.....18wheeler semi-trailer truck driving!!!! Yeeeehaaa:)

Now, as it stands their are about an equal number of Freightliner drivers as their are Peterbuilt.

Over the next couple of years Peterbuilt nearly doubles in popularity, while the Freightliner struggles to maintain.

Would you consider the Freightliner people more Hardcore drivers??

No. Why? Because as with any recreation the HC will always make up the core... hence the name. so any extras that "attach" to this core and expand beyond it is just icing on the cake, but the core is there still. So in all honesty, if there are competitors in the same market and both have a core constituency, there HAS to be a fairly equal number of core(hard) supporters(gamers). To label one as NOT, is inaccurate at best.

Cyg.

p.s. You better not quote my whole post again...