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Author Topic: If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)  (Read 3347 times)

Offline QuDDus
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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2001, 05:30:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jumpman
Nintendo would of won, duh?

The Saturn was just too much of a ***** to develop for. Young and new developers would of had an extremely hard time developing for the system, most of them would of choose the N64 instead. Plus, it costs 399, 100$ more than the N64 did. That\'s simply a ridiculous amount of money for a game system.

And didn\'t the Saturn have online capabilities? That was a dumb move. People wern\'t ready for it then and I still don\'t think they\'re ready for it now.

At that time, people didn\'t trust Sega because of the 32X and SegaCD. They were still uncertain.

Also, does anyone remember how many games got cancelled for the N64 early on? A LOT of them went to PSX instead.

In America, I think the Saturn would be getting annhilated in 97-98, N64\'s best years IMO. Games like Mario Kart, Star Fox, Goldeneye, and Zelda:OOT, and possibly FF7 would of been too much for Saturn. Star Fox sold around 3 million, Mario Kart and Zelda, sold 9 million, and Goldeneye sold 7 million(I\'m positive about all of these numbers). The American public didn\'t accept the Saturn at it\'s launch, and it probably wouldn\'t of accepted it later on.

But in Japan it was the other way around. If I remember correctly then Saturn was doing great in Japan. But I remember that the N64 has an extremely successful launch, and with PSX gone then they might of had a fairly large piece of the market in Japan. Tho Saturn would of still been doing better.

My final assumption- N64 would of destroyed Saturn in America, but Saturn would of owned Japan. However, N64 would of sold more units world-wide and would of been the clear winner.



WOW I agree with jumpman:eek: ;)

Quote
Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Nintendo would of won, duh?
 Crap under a box? Where did you come up with this? And why would of Resident Evil never came to life? Hell, Capcom ported it over to the Saturn - so it evidently sold enough to warrant porting the game. If Sony wouldn\'t of been around, Sega would of sold even more because they would of had the market to themself for over a year while Nintendo worked on the N64.

That "crap under a box" was way more powerful then the PS by all accounts. Sega\'s main problems was the early launch and price tag ($400). Sony took advantage of those mistakes. But, if Sony never existed- no one could of taken advantage of the mistakes and it wouldn\'t of hurt Sega that much.

The RPG fans would of HAD to go to Sega. Because more and likely, Square would of went to Sega due to the cd-format. Square could not do what they wanted with Final Fantasy 7 because of the cartridge format. Fans of the fighting genre would of went to Sega also. Capcom\'s 2D fighters was best on the Saturn and that would of remained true. Not to mention, Virtua Fighter 2, Last Bronx, Fighters MegaMix and so on. 2D fans would of also went to the Saturn (which they actually did..) . EA would of went with Sega due to the CD format also. Sega would of had ever genre covered really.


I can\'t wait to see what Altered says about your "crap under a box" statement;)
[/B]

Well maybe interms of raw poly counts it is maybe. But the saturns processors were so quirky I mean the system already ran slower than psx. I mean the dual process caused the system to run even  slower. Second it had No hardware video compression. It all had to be condec from software. Third No hardware audio compression shale I go one? Saturn was simply a 2d gaming dream and that is all. It had large amount of VRAM for texture storage and  frame buffers. Which made for huge improvemnts in 2d gaming.
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Offline GenjuroKibagani
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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2001, 09:36:02 AM »
IMHO, Nintendo would\'ve won.  The N64 had a better 3D capabilities than the Saturn. I know the SATURN was a 2D Powerhouse but eventually games like Goldeneye and Perfect Dark would have become available. As far as Square goes that\'s a tough decision.  Square saw  that the PSX was a stronger 3D system than Saturn  (w/ CD format) and chose Sony.
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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2001, 09:40:41 AM »
QuDDus, your information is the product of mind-numbing zombies pretending to know the truth.

First of all, you can\'t really call SegaCD a failure when it had nearly 200 games and sold 3 to 4 million consoles, when it was nearly the first of it\'s kind. Developers were not scared away from it, it was that their were still so much life left in Genesis and SNES, the FMV games just didn\'t fit.

Saturn has 3 32-bit processors. 1 was for Sound, the other 2 were the cpus. The 2 for cpu\'s were never used in unison, but even with just ONE processor, it was still faster than PSXs 1. Heck, even the sound processor for Saturn, which is a beast, is as fast as the PSX cpu.

I have an early Saturn video wisely sent to me by Sega int he early days of Saturn. It clearly state Saturn can push 300,000 polys/sec. More than the 260k provided by PSX. This is a little known fact, because people think Saturn had less because it had less features like hardware Gourad Shading, etc. But it was a much better machine.

Several games look better on Saturn than on PSX. Shall I name some, oh mindless one? Marvel Super Heroes, Street Fighter Alpha 3, Grandia, Vandal Hearts, Thunderforce V, and so on.

Saturn was a godsend to 3rd parties because it was something INNOVATIVE, which is something all of you seem to claim  when dealing with PS2. Saturn was a right push into a new direction in game development.

That said, I can finally deal with the topic:

Saturn would\'ve trounced on N64, and laughed while doing it.

Saturn sold 5 million consoles first year in Japan and was the RPG king. it sold more consoles in a year than any before it. In America, due to a rushed launch, it sold 1 million in about 2 years. Wuite a bit different. But they rushed it because PSX was coming out with the stellar Twisted Metal and Destruction Derby. Sega would not have launched early if PSX weren\'t around.

Also, lookng at games that unfortunately never made it to America for Saturn kick the N64\'s butt by themselves.

Shining Force 3: 2 and 3
Deep Fear
Virus
Street Fighter Zero 3
Panzer Dragoon Saga (mass release)
Burning Rangers (mass release)
Shining Force 3 (mass release)
Grandia
Radiant Slivergun
Vandal Hearts
etc.etc.etc. N64 cannot compete with many of these titles.

Add in the fact that online play would\'ve become a reality and it makes for one quite successful console. You also have games that were announced that never came out would\'ve thrived on the popular Saturn. Virtua Fighter 3 with the 8meg RAM cart (drool!), NiGHTS 2, Burning Rangers 2, Sonic X-Treme, Fighting Vipers 2, etc!

Saturn would\'ve kicked butt, seriously. Even if Square would\'ve stayed with N64 through their own unexplainable hatred for Sega, Saturn would\'ve still had much more quality RPGs. N64 win? that would be next to impossible for Nintendo.


Eric Jacob
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Jumpman
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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2001, 09:53:16 AM »
ignore this.

Offline Halberto
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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2001, 09:57:47 AM »
Nintendo. SONY didn\'t really beat the 64 that bad, N64 was Nintendo\'s best console so far if you ask me. :)

Offline AlteredBeast
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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2001, 09:58:33 AM »
uggghhh. Do I have to explain this again?

Rushed launch, rushed games, high price tag, etc.

All would\'ve been avoided if PSX were not around. And All of those games you put up are worse in my mind with the exception of Mario kart, then the ones I put up.


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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2001, 10:10:09 AM »
Eric, you talking some crazy stuff here.

Quote
It clearly state Saturn can push 300,000 polys/sec. More than the 260k provided by PSX.

Actually, PSX could do well over 300,000PPS.

Quote
Also, lookng at games that unfortunately never made it to America for Saturn kick the N64\'s butt by themselves.

Shining Force 3: 2 and 3
Deep Fear
Virus
Street Fighter Zero 3
Panzer Dragoon Saga (mass release)
Burning Rangers (mass release)
Shining Force 3 (mass release)
Grandia
Radiant Slivergun
Vandal Hearts
etc.etc.etc. N64 cannot compete with many of these titles.

Funny, Goldeneye, Mario Kart, Mario, and Zelda:OOT, individually, sold more copies than Saturn\'s whole userbase!

It\'s debatable whether the titles I listed are better than the ones you listed, but it\'s a cold fact that Nintendo\'s key franchises would of walked all over all of those in the sales department.

Quote
Add in the fact that online play would\'ve become a reality and it makes for one quite successful console.

That was back in 96\', the internet was still pretty new at that time, peolpe would not of been ready for online gaming back then. I seriously don\'t think they\'re ready for it now either.

Quote
Saturn would\'ve kicked butt, seriously. Even if Square would\'ve stayed with N64 through their own unexplainable hatred for Sega, Saturn would\'ve still had much more quality RPGs. N64 win? that would be next to impossible for Nintendo.

Quality never wins a war. (example- the DC is dead)

I don\'t understand how you think Saturn could beat the N64. Saturn costs 399, 100$ more than N64. BIG factor. People would uncertain of the quality of Sega after 32X and SegaCD. Another big factor. Nintendo\'s franchises are unstopable. Another huge factor. How could Saturn possibly overcome all of this?

Offline Ryu
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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2001, 11:38:06 AM »
Quote
I don\'t understand how you think Saturn could beat the N64. Saturn costs 399, 100$ more than N64. BIG factor. People would uncertain of the quality of Sega after 32X and SegaCD. Another big factor. Nintendo\'s franchises are unstopable. Another huge factor. How could Saturn possibly overcome all of this?


You keep saying cost was the key factor, however, time is a much bigger factor.  The Saturn had 2 full years on the N64 and if the PSX was not the main competition for Sega, like altered already stated, the launch would have been delayed a year for a 299 price tag while still having a full year on Nintendo\'s release.  One year to improve upon the Sega Saturn games that already looked stunning right off the bat?  Franchises are fine and all, but time is a much more important factor.  Example: the PS2 launch. Nuff\' said.  You can\'t tell me Nintendo didn\'t lose a lot of fans mostly in part by the fact that the N64 was continuously delayed from year to year.
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Offline datamage
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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2001, 11:50:04 AM »
Quote
That "crap under a box" was way more powerful then the PS by all accounts


Not hardly. For both LiC and Beasty... I have gone through tons of Saturn games (had a friend who would import everything) and have played the best of what the Saturn had to offer. Aside from 2D, the Saturn could not do anything better than the PSX. The PSX had much more polygon-throughput, real transparencies, much better lighting, and tons more effects that the Saturn could never dream of doing. The Saturn was an atrocity in most 3D games. I don\'t see how you can say VF2 looked better than Tekken 3. It doesn\'t. Tekken\'s models are pushing more polygons, and well, the backgrounds in both games sucked.

Also, while the Saturn supposedly had the superior sound, it didn\'t. Need me to name all the games with horrible sound effects and muffled voices? C\'mon people, I love Sega as much as the next guy, but the Saturn was a mess next to PSX. Everyone can have an opinion, but being a SEGA fan doesn\'t automatically mean each one of their system was superior. I know neither of you will agree, and this will be a never-ending argument. Oh well. So be it.

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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2001, 12:02:07 PM »
Quote
You keep saying cost was the key factor, however, time is a much bigger factor. The Saturn had 2 full years on the N64 and if the PSX was not the main competition for Sega, like altered already stated, the launch would have been delayed a year for a 299 price tag while still having a full year on Nintendo\'s release. One year to improve upon the Sega Saturn games that already looked stunning right off the bat? Franchises are fine and all, but time is a much more important factor. Example: the PS2 launch. Nuff\' said. You can\'t tell me Nintendo didn\'t lose a lot of fans mostly in part by the fact that the N64 was continuously delayed from year to year.

2 full years? In America the N64 was released in Oct 96\'. I\'m pretty sure that the Saturn wasn\'t released in 94, wasn\'t it released in summer or spring 94?

Let\'s say they did delay it to make it more suitible for the market- who says the hardware would of been just as powerful and maintained a 299 price tag? It could of been a whole different machine. It may not of been so stunning in the end. But I\'ll let that slip, for now.

Saturn wasn\'t alone in the market when it was released, they had some small competition with the SNES. DKC3, Super Mario RPG, and if I remember correctly your favorite game of all time Chrono Trigger were released around then, all big sellers. Small competition, but it was clearly there.

Nintendo wouldn\'t of lost too many fans. Most of them were started to abondon them after the N64 launch when they got bored of Maroi 64. If the PSX didn\'t come alone, then N64 probably would of had 4-8 launch titles, satisfying the casual gamer.

Offline datamage
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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2001, 12:07:02 PM »
Actually, the N64 came out in September of \'96 and the Saturn was *secretly* released in May of \'95. (not 100% sure of the Saturn\'s date but it was near May if anything)

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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2001, 01:08:18 PM »
First, a little bit of gaming history that I am clarifying for the general thread.  This should be edited into LiC\'s original post.

The Sega Saturn launched in Spring of \'95. ($399, dropped to $299 by the time the PSX Launched)

http://ic.net/~craig/games/consoles/sega/saturn/history.html

Technical Specifications:

http://www.austinvideogames.com/FAQs/FAQ_SegaSaturn.htm

The Sony Playstation launched in Fall of \'95. ($299 from the beginning and dropped to $199 at the N64 launch)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A197174

Technical Specifications:

http://www.gamedude.com/psx-specs.html

The Nintendo 64 launched in fall of \'96.  ($199)

http://ign64.ign.com/hardware/297.html

Technical Specifications:

http://www.gamedude.com/n64spec.html

This is PURELY for reference and not meant to rebuttle anyone\'s posts.  This is just for clarification, I know how clouded all these specs and release dates are since these consoles are just a tad bit aged.
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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2001, 01:49:03 PM »
N64 would of definitely won.

The Saturn\'s first conception was that of a 2D gaming system.  Sega was going to bring 2D gaming into the 32-bit generation and the N64 would of been a true 3D powerhouse that would of easily blown the system away.  It was the PSX that forced Sega to upgrade to 3D.  Thus the multi chip set that was thrown in the last minute.

Although the N64 was in a cartridge format it wouldn\'t matter.  If Sony didn\'t exist, CGI graphics wouldn\'t be common place in videogames.  If you take Final Fantasy 7 and strip away all the FMVs, the game wouldn\'t be any bigger than Zelda and it would fit perfectly on the N64\'s cartridge format.  In fact, Square already began working on the system even before it was launched.  They showed preliminary art, and game shots.  Keep in mind the games such as Final Fantasy, Metal Gear and such would be created with the N64\'s capabilities in mind and not the PSX.  In fact, I think the games would be much better considering more emphasis and funding would be placed on gameplay and not long, minute CGI graphics.

Offline QuDDus
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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2001, 02:23:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AlteredBeast
QuDDus, your information is the product of mind-numbing zombies pretending to know the truth.

First of all, you can\'t really call SegaCD a failure when it had nearly 200 games and sold 3 to 4 million consoles, when it was nearly the first of it\'s kind. Developers were not scared away from it, it was that their were still so much life left in Genesis and SNES, the FMV games just didn\'t fit.

Saturn has 3 32-bit processors. 1 was for Sound, the other 2 were the cpus. The 2 for cpu\'s were never used in unison, but even with just ONE processor, it was still faster than PSXs 1. Heck, even the sound processor for Saturn, which is a beast, is as fast as the PSX cpu.

I have an early Saturn video wisely sent to me by Sega int he early days of Saturn. It clearly state Saturn can push 300,000 polys/sec. More than the 260k provided by PSX. This is a little known fact, because people think Saturn had less because it had less features like hardware Gourad Shading, etc. But it was a much better machine.

Several games look better on Saturn than on PSX. Shall I name some, oh mindless one? Marvel Super Heroes, Street Fighter Alpha 3, Grandia, Vandal Hearts, Thunderforce V, and so on.

Saturn was a godsend to 3rd parties because it was something INNOVATIVE, which is something all of you seem to claim  when dealing with PS2. Saturn was a right push into a new direction in game development.

That said, I can finally deal with the topic:

Saturn would\'ve trounced on N64, and laughed while doing it.

Saturn sold 5 million consoles first year in Japan and was the RPG king. it sold more consoles in a year than any before it. In America, due to a rushed launch, it sold 1 million in about 2 years. Wuite a bit different. But they rushed it because PSX was coming out with the stellar Twisted Metal and Destruction Derby. Sega would not have launched early if PSX weren\'t around.

Also, lookng at games that unfortunately never made it to America for Saturn kick the N64\'s butt by themselves.

Shining Force 3: 2 and 3
Deep Fear
Virus
Street Fighter Zero 3
Panzer Dragoon Saga (mass release)
Burning Rangers (mass release)
Shining Force 3 (mass release)
Grandia
Radiant Slivergun
Vandal Hearts
etc.etc.etc. N64 cannot compete with many of these titles.

Add in the fact that online play would\'ve become a reality and it makes for one quite successful console. You also have games that were announced that never came out would\'ve thrived on the popular Saturn. Virtua Fighter 3 with the 8meg RAM cart (drool!), NiGHTS 2, Burning Rangers 2, Sonic X-Treme, Fighting Vipers 2, etc!

Saturn would\'ve kicked butt, seriously. Even if Square would\'ve stayed with N64 through their own unexplainable hatred for Sega, Saturn would\'ve still had much more quality RPGs. N64 win? that would be next to impossible for Nintendo.


Eric Jacob



Maybe you need to study the saturn architecture a little bit more because you don\'t know what your talking about. THE SATURN HAD TWO VDP 32-BIT PROCESSORS. ONE WAS FOR SPRITE GENERATION AND THE OTHER WAS A BACKGROUND PROCESSOR. AND THEY BOTH RAN DUAL. AND  BOTH VDP CHIPS HAVE direct ACESS to the both SH-2s, as well as
direct memory access DMA to both the main and Video RAM.  THUS limiting the ability of both CPUs to directly access memory at the same time. SO THAT CAUSES THE SATURN TO RUN VERY SLOW.
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Offline AlteredBeast
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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2001, 04:27:27 PM »
Both cpus are never on at the same time, go look at any Saturn FAQ on the web and they will tell you.

That said, the 1 processor that IS on is still faster (Mhz) than PSXs 1.

Anyone who looks at some of the games that came out exclusively in Japan, or barely at all in America can safely say that many games on Saturn look better than stuff being released today for PSX.

Take a look a Panzer Dragoon Saga (good luck). The textures in that games are still unmatched by any other 32bit game I have seen, And trounces over anything N64 could dream of putting out. Transparencies werent done in hardware, along with Gourad shading,etc. but these features could all be done in software. Point to The Duck Company\'s MPEG player that was devised in software. And Burning Rangers clearly shows transparencies, et al.

Saturn was ahead of it\'s time, and everyone knows it. It had the unfortunate luck of being released along side a well made, but underpowered PSX. One that was easy to program for.

Saturn would\'ve trounced over N64 without hesitation. You forget that Sega has IT\'S franchises, too. One of those being Sonic, which was canceled.plus it had some of the most successful arcade games ever, like Dayotna (most successful deluxe cab. ever), Sega Rally, 2D fighters, shooters, etc.

Here are games you see in abundance on Saturn and are hardly seen on N64:

fighting games (2D or 3D)
arcade racing
2D games
RPGs
Strategy
war sim.
arcade games period.
shooters (not FPS)

there are probably more, but you get the idea. Saturn had variety and quality to boot. Also, you gotta add in the fact, that without PSX, 32X would\'ve lasted alot longer (look at it\'s announced games that never came out! wow!) as would\'ve SegaCD. Saturn would\'ve been cheaper and had more games at launch.


Eric Jacob
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