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Author Topic: If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)  (Read 3348 times)

Offline QuDDus
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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2001, 04:33:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AlteredBeast
Both cpus are never on at the same time, go look at any Saturn FAQ on the web and they will tell you.

That said, the 1 processor that IS on is still faster (Mhz) than PSXs 1.

Anyone who looks at some of the games that came out exclusively in Japan, or barely at all in America can safely say that many games on Saturn look better than stuff being released today for PSX.

Take a look a Panzer Dragoon Saga (good luck). The textures in that games are still unmatched by any other 32bit game I have seen, And trounces over anything N64 could dream of putting out. Transparencies werent done in hardware, along with Gourad shading,etc. but these features could all be done in software. Point to The Duck Company\'s MPEG player that was devised in software. And Burning Rangers clearly shows transparencies, et al.

Saturn was ahead of it\'s time, and everyone knows it. It had the unfortunate luck of being released along side a well made, but underpowered PSX. One that was easy to program for.

Saturn would\'ve trounced over N64 without hesitation. You forget that Sega has IT\'S franchises, too. One of those being Sonic, which was canceled.plus it had some of the most successful arcade games ever, like Dayotna (most successful deluxe cab. ever), Sega Rally, 2D fighters, shooters, etc.

Here are games you see in abundance on Saturn and are hardly seen on N64:

fighting games (2D or 3D)
arcade racing
2D games
RPGs
Strategy
war sim.
arcade games period.
shooters (not FPS)

there are probably more, but you get the idea. Saturn had variety and quality to boot. Also, you gotta add in the fact, that without PSX, 32X would\'ve lasted alot longer (look at it\'s announced games that never came out! wow!) as would\'ve SegaCD. Saturn would\'ve been cheaper and had more games at launch.


Eric Jacob


Well I am refering to the 2dual vdp processors.(Not cpu) You need to research those two then you will see what I am talking about.

You may think the saturn was a great system. As for me only game I liked on it was VF2 and that\'s basicly it.
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Offline AlteredBeast
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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2001, 04:47:42 PM »
It doesn\'t really matter when you look at it.

The Saturn GPU can pump out 500,000 flat shaded polys.
The PSX CPU can pump out 1.5 flat shaded. BUT, on the GPU specs, it says 360,000 and that is without gourad and texture mapping. As I gather from this FAQ http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/sony_psx.txt

All ya gotta do is look at Panzer Dragoon Saga, just go do it, and compare to other 32-bit or 64-bit games.


Eric Jacob
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Offline Faithdies
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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2001, 04:50:54 PM »
Tshirts,
Put the crack pipe DOWN and back away.
Final Fantasy 7 and MGS would have been better on the n64 cause more time and money could have been spent on things over than CGI?
What else could they have done to make FF7 better?
No random battles?
Thats about it.
And maybe Ive been droppen acid to much, but  I dont remember any CGI in MGS.
They could have spent more money and time on what?
The gameplay, the story?
I thought they were the best in their genre.

Offline Tshirts
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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2001, 05:08:29 PM »
The best in their genre?  Go back and play Final Fantasy 3 and Chrono Trigger.  Now tell me if theres no need for improvement.

Offline Faithdies
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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2001, 05:18:46 PM »
I have played Chrono Trigger, and while I thought It was good, I wasnt blown away by it.
And Both of those are RPG\'s.
What about MGS?
What adventure game has a better mix of story and gameplay?

Offline IronFist
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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2001, 05:48:42 PM »
Dang, I\'m gone for one day and I miss this whole argument. :(  I pretty much agree 100% with Ryu and Altered.  The Saturn had what it took to defeat the N64, and if it wasn\'t for the easier-to-develope-for PSX, the Developers would have spent the time to learn the Saturn architecture all before the N64 even came out.

I want to add this:  Can you imagine if FF7 came out on the N64?!  "Come buy FF7 -- the N64\'s first 20 cartridge game.  Only $200."  LOL. :)
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Offline datamage
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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2001, 06:15:46 PM »
Quote
Take a look a Panzer Dragoon Saga (good luck). The textures in that games are still unmatched by any other 32bit game I have seen


I\'m sorry man, but what funky stuff have you been smoking? PDS is a marvelous game, but its textures are not that amazing. Look, the saturn is a wonderful system that not many people appreciated, but like I said, in 3D power the PSX trounces it. Burning Rangers might have had transparencies, but @ what cost? The framerate in BR was unstable. The Saturn couldn\'t even do real transparency in 2D. Sure, some developers eventually faked it, but it didn\'t look as nice. Play Guardian Heroes and get behind a pillar, that checkered-dithered junk don\'t cut it. If you ask me, I wish everything on the Saturn was 2D.

On topic though, while I *think* Nintendo may have won the war, I would have prefered to stick with the Saturn. Surely SEGA would allow all kinds of content on the Saturn while the big N .. well you know. And perhaps we would have seen more 2D goodness along with all the great imports that never made it here. (damn stolar)

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Offline QuDDus
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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2001, 06:50:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AlteredBeast
It doesn\'t really matter when you look at it.

The Saturn GPU can pump out 500,000 flat shaded polys.
The PSX CPU can pump out 1.5 flat shaded. BUT, on the GPU specs, it says 360,000 and that is without gourad and texture mapping. As I gather from this FAQ http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/sony_psx.txt

All ya gotta do is look at Panzer Dragoon Saga, just go do it, and compare to other 32-bit or 64-bit games.


Eric Jacob


Hey alter that link is about psx not saturn. I mean of corse there are some pro\'s to the saturn architecture. But the con is the way the architecture was set up it caused the system to run slow. I am not going to dispute the content of the games. Because you enjoyed them more than I did. And that just how it is. But I still say that the saturn was built for 2d gaming and not 3d. Does that make the saturn bad? As far as I am saying i wanted too see some 3d games but saturn was excellent at support 2d not 3d. It didn\'t even support 3d light sourcing and transparency.
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Offline AlteredBeast
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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #38 on: July 22, 2001, 06:58:21 PM »
for the Saturn faq, in which I am referring, you\'ll have to look at Ryu\'s Saturn link.

Also, Saturn could do those things, but they had to be done through software, like FSAA for PS2.


Eric Jacob
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Offline QuDDus
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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #39 on: July 22, 2001, 07:23:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AlteredBeast
for the Saturn faq, in which I am referring, you\'ll have to look at Ryu\'s Saturn link.

Also, Saturn could do those things, but they had to be done through software, like FSAA for PS2.


Eric Jacob



AHH I found another flaw see that is the big problem with saturn right there. ALL that has to be done on software. Developer would have trouble generating those effect in 3d games because aong with lightsourcing, three dimensional transparency must be generated through software routines. And seeing how saturn was so hard to program for that make 3d rendered background in saturn almost impossible to look decent.
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Offline AlteredBeast
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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #40 on: July 22, 2001, 08:00:44 PM »
What is decent to you?

How do you define good looking?

Here are some screens that show ya even with what looks to be the worst screen captures ever:






whats that I see? It looks like transparencies and proper shading! All this from the game many people regard as the best RPG of all time. No COMPETENT developer would have too much trouble learning the intricatcies and make a game look as good or better than this. hmmm. great textures, graphics, and all at 60fps :) and remember, this is 1998, compare this to PSX games of 1998 in similar genres and you will see.

and you have Sakura Taisen, one of my favorite import games for Saturn, compare the screens to Final Fantasy Tactics on PSX to see what I am talking about:





I can put up more if you want. I just put up some of those to let you know that developers with comptence can make excellent looking games for Saturn, 3 years ago. Imagine what they would look like today.


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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #41 on: July 22, 2001, 08:07:28 PM »
I beg to differ.  That looks like crap on a stick.  What PSX games are you comparing these shots to (specifically)?

Offline Ryu
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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #42 on: July 22, 2001, 08:08:46 PM »


Buh?  The game\'s transparencies look damn good to me, unless you guys are talking about something totally different.  In which case, I\'d like to see an example of it from a PSX game performing it.
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Offline AlteredBeast
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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2001, 08:16:05 PM »
I think the site used like a 20 dollar capture card for those pics, but you get the idea.

Ryu has the right idea, though. Look at Burning Rangers. It may have been 30fps and a tad jumpy, but it is a great looking, hard game! I still haven\'t beaten it!

it shows proper light sourcing, shading, and transparencies. All done FINE through software, while still maintaining a high polygon count and frames per second.


Eric Jacob
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Offline AlteredBeast
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If Sony never Existed who would of won the 32/64 era? (*stole from Ryu*)
« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2001, 08:32:13 PM »
here are some bigger shots for you nitpickers out there:




here are some cleaner PDS shots too, to illustrate what I meanby amazing textures. they are a little dark, but you see.





Is that light sourcing!?!!?!



satisfied?


I rest my case. :)


Eric Jacob
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