Casual gamers do know games(I kind of took this from reading Weltalls post)

Originally posted by AlteredBeast
The fact is, if you can\'t find games you like on ANY system, then you are

a)casual (not trying)
b)a fanboy against that company
c)not worthy to play that console.

So are you saying that if I don\'t like anything on the N64, I\'m one of those three choices?  

a) I hated the N64, but I still consider myself to be a hardcore gamer.  I love the PSX, Dreamcast, PS2, and I buy a lot of games for each of them.  And believe me, I HAVE TRIED!  I just can\'t stand the NES quality sound, the poor controller, the blurry graphics, and the whole kiddie feel to almost every game.  I even hated Goldeneye because of it\'s blurry graphics, slow gameplay (especially in 4-player split-screen), and poor control (again, I hated the controller.  The analog stick was crap.)

b) I used to love Nintendo until they made the N64.  I might have something against Nintendo now because I grew up a little, and for the most part, Nintendo didn\'t.  I am so sick of Mario (give me Sonic any day ).  I gave the N64 a chance, but when I realized that there was pretty much no progression in the games, I started to hate it.  If you think about it, Mario 64 is still one of the N64\'s best games - which is kind of sad if you think about it.

c) Oh come on now.  Do you really think anybody is not worthy to play the N64.  It was utter crap I tell you!

Well, I know you are not a fanoby, nor imbecile.

There are some good games on N64, you have to admit it.

The controller sucks, the sound sucks, the grpahics are muddy abd foggy, and there are no RPGs or fighters, but there are a couple of good games.

Eric Jacob

Altered, do you want to name some?  Because I honestly cannot think of any that I liked.  And what good is a console without fighters and RPGs?!

Oh how I wish Sin and Punishment was available in the US.  Also Fist, did you really hate Jet Force Gemini?  Come on, that game was pretty neat.

I\'ve never even heard of Jet Force Gemini.  What kind of game was it?  Because it sounds like a Starwars flying game, and I\'m not really into flying games.

I just thought of a game that I like on the N64.  You guys are probably going to laugh, especially after what I said about the Nintendo being for kids.  I love Mario Tennis.  LOL, I\'m as shocked as you are.  It really is a fun party game, and it isn\'t plagued with the problems that other multiplayer games had on the N64 (Super blurry textures, slow gameplay).

And Ryu, Sin and Punishment?  Sounds interesting.  Tell me more.

It was longer, had Mode 7 \'3D\' bonus stages, redbook audio, time travel (neato!).

lmao, I cracked up when I read "neato" there for some reason.

Anyway..

I don\'t know how hardcore versus casual is determined. Myself, for example; I know a lot about the industry but rarely actually play the games themselves. Am I hardcore or casual?

[Living-In-Clip]

• It should be noted that Sonic CD is the most crtically acclaimed 2D Sonic game. Most Sega fans prefer it over all other Sonic\'s also.
  
  
• Jet Force Gemini was made by Rare, I believe. It was a shooter / action adventure game. Pretty fun actually.

Originally posted by AlteredBeast
ALL of the games on Saturn or Dreamcast don\'t appeal to you?

We don\'t call that being casual or non-hardcore, we call that fanboyism. The fact is, if you can\'t find games you like on ANY system, then you are

a)casual (not trying)
b)a fanboy against that company
c)not worthy to play that console.


Eric Jacob

Hey I never said I didn\'t like dreamcast I got it first day it came out. But I did say I didn\'t like saturn. I just didn\'t like the way some of the saturn games looked. I mean at that time I thought psx offered the best games that I liked. I didn\'t like any of the games on 350 either. I mean you can\'t like every system. And I know there are times when you just cannot deny that a system rocks. I just don\'t think that was the case for saturn.

Originally posted by Ryu


Even if it\'s just 1 game or a million games on a system that interest you, you need to have that drive to play them or own them yourself.  I\'m positive that with every console system released, there is at least 5 games for it that you would be very interested in.  It doesn\'t have to be a generally liked game either, but as long as you like it, then the system is worth having.  You brush the Saturn off as a 2D machine and claim that "casual gamers" bought the PS2.  How the hell would you know that?  You only got one game for the Saturn in its whole life span, I\'m betting you played no more then 10 games for it and you think that based on hype alone and it\'s 299 price tag, the PS2 sold well to the "casual gamers."  I beg to differ sonny boy, but most casual gamers don\'t want to spend 299 on ANYTHING.  They want the cheapest meat on the block and that\'s fact.  Did you know that the PSOne\'s sales were it\'s greatest at the 149 and 99 price range?  It\'s the same with the N64 as well.

Casual gamers want pretty games at a cheap price, no matter what that does to the gameplay.  Go ahead and play Legend of Dragoon and see just how many copies that game sold.  Go ahead and play FFTactics and see how many copies that game sold in comparison.  It just goes to show that casual gamers want price, commercials, hype, and graphics moreso then anything else for any system.  Hardcore gamers could give two craps about graphics or hype so long as the damn thing was fun.  "Hey, I\'m EA and here\'s Madden2k2, an obviously inferior game to VC\'s NFL2k2.  But since I have more commercials and am made by EA with the Madden franchise name in it, I will always sell more no matter what system I am on.  I love my commercials."

I rest my case.

I totally disagree with you. I mean graphics are what draws you into a game but if the gameplay sucks you ain\'t gonna buy it. I mean these days ppl are renting games before they buy them now. I mean we are not leaving in the 1980\'s of gaming this is 2001 gamers are much smarter. They spend there cash on crap they spend there on money games they thing appeal to them. Maybe legend of dragon is not everybodies game. I mean everyone does not like rpg\'s. Or even sports, FPS. I mean some games sell well because they appeal to others more. And the madden nf2k2 thing. I ppl who loves sports games are going to play madden and nfl2k2 it not a umm commercial thing. Any real sports fan will end up playing them both. I don\'t know why you think of casual gamer as some brainless losers. This is not 1970\'s gaming. PPl know what they want for there money. PPl buy what they like. If you would ask 500 ppl about games you would be suprised and what types of games they like. Everyone has different taste that is why there are 3 different console makers. But you need to stop characterizing like you do because ppl are  not as dumb as your making them out to be. And lot times millions of kids who have system. Don\'t always have the luxery of getting all the games they want. I mean you have to consider that factor too. I mean everyone can\'t afford the some games. I mean some ppl may on be able to afford 1-3 games every 8months or so. I mean millions and millions of ppl now of just rent games all the time. Some ppl find that a 5 day rental is enough for them on some games. And I agree a lot of games are just good for a week rental. There are a lot of factors and I believe everything your saying is based upon old gaming ways. If you look around this is 2001 ppl are smarter and know what they are doing when it comes to their gaming experience.

If you LOVE playing games, and devote a good chunk of your life to that, then you are Hardcore.

It matters not which system, or how many , but the sheer drive to play again and again, and devote hours of time on end, will determine your status.

You could have kids who just last week bought and played their first system, but if they are totally into it and live-to-play...they are now Hardcore.

By the same token, you could have a person who has every system since 79\' and hasn\'t played a game in a month... he, I submit, is NOT hardcore. (he just has a nice collection).

The bottom line: Hardcore is a fleeting term, that is so liquid that to even use it as a label is futile:)

Originally posted by CygnusXI
The bottom line: Hardcore is a fleeting term, that is so liquid that to even use it as a label is futile:)

That\'s because that is what hardcore means!

Webster:

Hard-core (adjective) Hardcore (noun):

1. extremely resistant to solution or improvement.  (a.k.a. futile)
2. being the most determined or dedicated mebers of a specified group.
3. containing explicit depictions of sexual acts.

So you see, it\'s not "liquid,"  it\'s what it meant to be hardcore in the first place!

The definition of "hardcore" isn\'t in question it the definition of "HARDCORE GAMER " . How does one measure his/her dedication toward gaming vs. anothers?  What about people who PLAY EMULATORS?! Of all types and download these games..are they not hardcore?

Just an example, I have an SNES, NES, Genesis, GameBoy,  and Neo-Geo Emualtors and ROMs. ( I\'d have more but its difficult getting some of them to work sometimes) I own and still play a PSX.  I have Gaming Posters, I suscribe to a Video games magazine.   I haven\'t bought a DC, PS2, and I don\'t think I\'ll be getting a GCN at launch, for economical reasons ( College sucks) AM I hardcore?

If Not what must I do to be hardcore? That I\'m NOT Doing already.  DO you see the paradox formed by casual vs. hardcore? The only REAL FACT is that the influx of casual gamers tends to have a negative effect on Hardcore Gamers(ing).

A hardcore RPG player would\'ve bought FF7-9 w/out the CG commercials and FMV loaded ads on the Net.  The Casual gamer..wouldn\'t have known FF7 from FFT w/out the commercials.

Which is why I said a Hardcore Gamer NEVER Stops playing. Back in 1994 what is called "The Drought" when video games began to be stagnant, Casual gamers would\'ve stopped or "Outgrown" games, Hardcore Gamers would\'ve kept playing despite what is being done around them.  This is why I believe that hardcore gaming is only apparent to those who believe they are casual

If you look around this is 2001 ppl are smarter and know what they are doing when it comes to their gaming experience.

That\'s pretty much your whole point and the fact is, that is simply not the case.  Any gamer in here can tell you that brand names and commercials sell more games then anything else.  For example, the 989 sports series on the PS2 sell incredibly well.  Why is that?  All the "hardcore" gamers know to avoid those things like the plague, but people have to buy them for their sales to go up.  I leave that to the casual gamers who saw one commercial and bought a copy for themselves and their friends.

If you LOVE playing games, and devote a good chunk of your life to that, then you are Hardcore.

Exactly.  Much more eloquent then my definition of hardcore, but I went into far more depth with the "Casual" gamer and thus the debate ensues...

Sin and Punishment is a GREAT N64 title. It is made by the gurus at Treasure who made the heavenly Gunstar Heroes and undeniable champ of shooters, Radiant Silvergun.

I imported this game and it was well worth it.

I liked F-Zero-X alot when it came out, I don\'t know if that\'s your cup of tea, but I liked it.

Winback was a pretty good game.

Conkers has the best graphics in the 64/32 bit I have seen, no joke, they are simply great. and the games not too bad either.


Eric Jacob

Originally posted by Ryu


That\'s pretty much your whole point and the fact is, that is simply not the case.  Any gamer in here can tell you that brand names and commercials sell more games then anything else.  For example, the 989 sports series on the PS2 sell incredibly well.  Why is that?  All the "hardcore" gamers know to avoid those things like the plague, but people have to buy them for their sales to go up.  I leave that to the casual gamers who saw one commercial and bought a copy for themselves and their friends.



Exactly.  Much more eloquent then my definition of hardcore, but I went into far more depth with the "Casual" gamer and thus the debate ensues...

Ryu that is so untrue I don\'t see how you can even say that 989 sports games  sell all that good. The best selling sports game on ps is made bye ea. If 989 was doing so well they would have not been fired the first time. Ryu you speculating on those numbers no gamers are that stupid to buy into a crappy game like 989. You can ask any person who plays games 989 suck. That is rediculous 989 graphics suck and gameplay. I mean your graphical base point was killed bye you bringing up 989 because there graphics are weak. Commercial sells you mean FF,MGS,GT3. Which are all killer games. You are saying because everyone didn\'t buy a certain game you thought should have sold well that they don\'t know good games. HAHHAHA so now everyone has to agree on every single game not to be characatrized as a certain type of gamer. I am steal stripping that you had the nerve even mentioned 989. That is an insult to any gamer no matter what name you want to give them. And I find that to total bull and there is noway you can prove that because it is 100% false. You should not haven said that.