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Author Topic: The PS2 will not stand a chance....  (Read 9173 times)

Offline JP
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The PS2 will not stand a chance....(Merged)
« Reply #105 on: November 09, 2001, 01:21:16 PM »
Yeah it\'s boring.... Just a loooooong cutscene.
It seemed really good at first.
It\'s got a compelling story but the gameplay, or should I say lack of it, turned me off the game.

Offline JerginsSoft
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« Reply #106 on: November 09, 2001, 09:06:28 PM »
This thread is one of the reasons I hardly ever come to this part of the forum.

This thread was started by a huge fanboy to Sony fanboys that their console is doomed.  Great, good job, guy.  Thanks for yer opinion.  Anyone who posts a thread stating anything remotely close to, "The console I like will kill your console" is, you guessed it... A FANBOY!!  This is especially true in the case of a console that has not even been released yet.

And Quddus, your replies are pure crap.  Utter nonsense.  If you post in support of a thread, it is sure to be the nail in the coffin of the person who started the conversation.
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Offline Tshirts
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More reasons why the PS2 won\'t win....
« Reply #107 on: November 10, 2001, 01:03:20 PM »
The transcendent.

This is the constant factor.  It is unchanging.  Whatever course the industry takes, it will partake in this factor - in order for any company to lead the industry, it must transcend it.

The "history of consoles" established this asserton.  The Atari 2600 was the first commericialized console.  The Nes was the first Japanese made console to offer games that strayed from the usual genre.  The Sega Genesis was the first console to offer perfect arcade-like graphics and gameplay.  The PSX was the first console to fully utilize a 3D world.  Every other console that failed to be the first to transcend or revolutionize the industry - Saturn, Master System, 32X, Sega CD, 3DO, Jaguar, N64 - never capitilized on it.

The wavering support.

The quick fluctuation of support on the PS2 by such companies like Konami, Square, EA, and Namco is surely not a good sign.  It took the Sega Genesis 4 years to draw the support of Capcom and SF2.  It took the PSX 3 years to garner Square and FF7.  It took the Xbox and GC 1 day to nab all of the top support from the PS2.  This divergence is a scary thought when you take into consideration how quick and easy it was to careen.  If the GC and Xbox can do this much damage on day one, imagine the kind of damage it can do in a year or two.

The huge disparity in graphics.

GT3 and Metal Gear Solid 2 are arguably the top graphical franchises for the system.  These two games should be fairly contrasted to the top games of the two opposing systems.  When you do a comparison, it is not accurate to compare the raw power of the consoles.  The developemental process and the raw power should be the means for an accurate comparison.  note:  If we don\'t do that then the Saturn is technically just as powerful as the PSX - with games like Grandia and VF2 which not only matches but surpasses some of the top graphical franchises on the PSX.  If we take Metal Gear Solid 2 and GT3 into comparison with DOA3 and Luigi\'s Mansion, we won\'t see much of a graphical leap, but if you delve deeper into the developemental process, you will see a stark contrast.  GT3 and Metal Gear Solid have already been in developement a little prior to the PS2 launch.  *Technically* both titles have already been in developement for 3 years.  Both Luigi\'s Mansion and DOA3 have been in developement for no less than 2 years.  With this assertion, the ratio in consideration of the graphical mean and the developemental process for each opposing systems is, give or take, 1.75:3.5.  The PS2 is *technically* almost 2 times less powerful than the GC and Xbox.  This should be constant because it is the controlled factor.  Of course, through time, the developers will have a better grasp on the PS2 and the graphics will be better, but the same can be said of the Xbox GC thus the constant factor cannot be changed in anyway unless if any of the systems ceased production.

The PS2 will be the least powerful console with the *worse* graphics;The wavering support will hurt the system in the long run; And the PS2\'s inability to transcend the industry forward will forbade it to lead.  You might not see it now because of the fresh start of both the GC and Xbox, but the future paints a bleak picture for the PS2 and there is little chance it will be the leader this time around.

Offline ajoh432
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The PS2 will not stand a chance....(Merged)
« Reply #108 on: November 10, 2001, 01:11:26 PM »
My God!!!!! SHUT UP!

Must we prove you wrong again... Grrrrr..
.... take the skin and peel and back...

now doesn\'t it make you feel better?

Offline ajoh432
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Re: More reasons why the PS2 won\'t win....
« Reply #109 on: November 10, 2001, 01:16:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tshirts
The transcendent.

This is the constant factor.  It is unchanging.  Whatever course the industry takes, it will partake in this factor - in order for any company to lead the industry, it must transcend it.

The "history of consoles" established this asserton.  The Atari 2600 was the first commericialized console.  The Nes was the first Japanese made console to offer games that strayed from the usual genre.  The Sega Genesis was the first console to offer perfect arcade-like graphics and gameplay.  The PSX was the first console to fully utilize a 3D world.  Every other console that failed to be the first to transcend or revolutionize the industry - Saturn, Master System, 32X, Sega CD, 3DO, Jaguar, N64 - never capitilized on it.

The wavering support.

The quick fluctuation of support on the PS2 by such companies like Konami, Square, EA, and Namco is surely not a good sign.  It took the Sega Genesis 4 years to draw the support of Capcom and SF2.  It took the PSX 3 years to garner Square and FF7.  It took the Xbox and GC 1 day to nab all of the top support from the PS2.  This divergence is a scary thought when you take into consideration how quick and easy it was to careen.  If the GC and Xbox can do this much damage on day one, imagine the kind of damage it can do in a year or two.

The huge disparity in graphics.

GT3 and Metal Gear Solid 2 are arguably the top graphical franchises for the system.  These two games should be fairly contrasted to the top games of the two opposing systems.  When you do a comparison, it is not accurate to compare the raw power of the consoles.  The developemental process and the raw power should be the means for an accurate comparison.  note:  If we don\'t do that then the Saturn is technically just as powerful as the PSX - with games like Grandia and VF2 which not only matches but surpasses some of the top graphical franchises on the PSX.  If we take Metal Gear Solid 2 and GT3 into comparison with DOA3 and Luigi\'s Mansion, we won\'t see much of a graphical leap, but if you delve deeper into the developemental process, you will see a stark contrast.  GT3 and Metal Gear Solid have already been in developement a little prior to the PS2 launch.  *Technically* both titles have already been in developement for 3 years.  Both Luigi\'s Mansion and DOA3 have been in developement for no less than 2 years.  With this assertion, the ratio in consideration of the graphical mean and the developemental process for each opposing systems is, give or take, 1.75:3.5.  The PS2 is *technically* almost 2 times less powerful than the GC and Xbox.  This should be constant because it is the controlled factor.  Of course, through time, the developers will have a better grasp on the PS2 and the graphics will be better, but the same can be said of the Xbox GC thus the constant factor cannot be changed in anyway unless if any of the systems ceased production.

The PS2 will be the least powerful console with the *worse* graphics;The wavering support will hurt the system in the long run; And the PS2\'s inability to transcend the industry forward will forbade it to lead.  You might not see it now because of the fresh start of both the GC and Xbox, but the future paints a bleak picture for the PS2 and there is little chance it will be the leader this time around.
After all of that.... I\'m wondering..... XBOX ISN"T EVEN OUT!!! SO YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHO WILL WIN, SO SHUT UP!




Settled...:)
.... take the skin and peel and back...

now doesn\'t it make you feel better?

Offline Toxical
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« Reply #110 on: November 10, 2001, 01:18:13 PM »
hmmm Lets see, PS1 had better graphics than N64?  No.
Who sold more? SONY.


XBOX = poor azz PC, in console wrap
GC = Console, with one task, play gamez.
PS2 = Console, with multi-functionality DVD+Console


There that wasn\'t hard, was it? :D

Offline Terry Bogard
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« Reply #111 on: November 10, 2001, 01:22:26 PM »
Quote
The huge disparity in graphics.

GT3 and Metal Gear Solid 2 are arguably the top graphical franchises for the system. These two games should be fairly contrasted to the top games of the two opposing systems. When you do a comparison, it is not accurate to compare the raw power of the consoles. The developemental process and the raw power should be the means for an accurate comparison. note: If we don\'t do that then the Saturn is technically just as powerful as the PSX - with games like Grandia and VF2 which not only matches but surpasses some of the top graphical franchises on the PSX. If we take Metal Gear Solid 2 and GT3 into comparison with DOA3 and Luigi\'s Mansion, we won\'t see much of a graphical leap, but if you delve deeper into the developemental process, you will see a stark contrast. GT3 and Metal Gear Solid have already been in developement a little prior to the PS2 launch. *Technically* both titles have already been in developement for 3 years. Both Luigi\'s Mansion and DOA3 have been in developement for no less than 2 years. With this assertion, the ratio in consideration of the graphical mean and the developemental process for each opposing systems is, give or take, 1.75:3.5. The PS2 is *technically* almost 2 times less powerful than the GC and Xbox. This should be constant because it is the controlled factor. Of course, through time, the developers will have a better grasp on the PS2 and the graphics will be better, but the same can be said of the Xbox GC thus the constant factor cannot be changed in anyway unless if any of the systems ceased production.

The PS2 will be the least powerful console with the *worse* graphics;The wavering support will hurt the system in the long run; And the PS2\'s inability to transcend the industry forward will forbade it to lead. You might not see it now because of the fresh start of both the GC and Xbox, but the future paints a bleak picture for the PS2 and there is little chance it will be the leader this time around.



LMAO, you don\'t know when to give up do you?  As I take it your a Graphic whore?  Well reading your post, with much apraise.:rolleyes:


PS2 will have the "worst" graphics this generation? I\'m sorry, but Jax and Daxter looks better then most games these Xbox games, oh with maybe the exception of Halo. You think MS is going to have a huge user base like Sony in less then a year? Not likely, but it anything can happen, but your post, is filled with flaws, mostly from a standpoint that PS2 doesn\'t transend the industry? Well neither does Xbox, all Xbox is bringing to the table is a powerful console, but, the games are very lacking, people are calling DOA3 the best fighter of all time, well, thats debatable, because DOA3 is far from perfect, and like Ryu said, its pretty much DOA2 with a pretty bow, doesn\'t bring anything to the table gameplay wise.  PS2 is graphically inferior? Um, not really mr Tshirts, I\'m sorry, but this is one of the worst posts, next to your PS2 won\'t stand a chance, please come back when you can actually talk with out taking words out of your ass. You should think that, PS2 doesn\'t have the graphical ability to stand a chance this generation? Well its already looking like Sony stands a chance in the graphics department also.  I\'ll take Gran Turismo 3 over DOA3 anyway, even though i depise GT3, it still brings alot more to the table graphically and gameplay wise, DOA3 just offers us pretty graphics, with no added gameplay value. Please do not compare different Genres, LM, is nothing like MGS2, and so forth. Good bye, I\'m afraid your post is rather worthless.
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Offline JerginsSoft
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« Reply #112 on: November 10, 2001, 01:53:32 PM »
Sigh, fool, allow me to retort.

Quote
The transcendent.

This is the constant factor. It is unchanging. Whatever course the industry takes, it will partake in this factor - in order for any company to lead the industry, it must transcend it.

The "history of consoles" established this asserton. The Atari 2600 was the first commericialized console. The Nes was the first Japanese made console to offer games that strayed from the usual genre. The Sega Genesis was the first console to offer perfect arcade-like graphics and gameplay. The PSX was the first console to fully utilize a 3D world. Every other console that failed to be the first to transcend or revolutionize the industry - Saturn, Master System, 32X, Sega CD, 3DO, Jaguar, N64 - never capitilized on it.


What basis do you have that the XBox will TRANSCEND the industry?  What are the ground breaking ideas that MS had, that others don\'t have already?  The fact that it has a hard drive?  The fact that it will have broadband support?  Hmmm, great points.  Do you forget that the PS2 will have the same things?  In fact, the PS2 will have a BIGGER, BETTER hard drive than the XBox.  As for broadband, the XBox will not even be able to use its capabilities for some time.  If you are thinking, "Well, you can use the modem if you have your own ISP", well, there again, so can the PS2.  Oh wait, maybe you think its transcending because MS has never done a console before.  Hmmm, wrong again.  Just because they have never done a console before, doesn\'t make them pioneers in the industry.

Oh, yeah you\'re right, XBox can play DVD\'s!  Ohhhh, but you need to spend 30 bucks to buy a remote, just so you can watch \'em.  Sorry, pal, hope you like getting ripped like that, \'cause after all, we ARE dealing with Microsoft.  All the capabilities that the PS2 actually transcended the industry with that MS is COPYING, it was capable of doing right out of the box.

Ways PS2 transcended the industry:

It was the first to offer DVD support.
Full pressure sensitive control support.
USB support.
iLink support.
They even took the step of breaking out and calling it a "computer entertainment" system, rather than a video game system.

Everything on the XBox was designed to do something better than the PS2.  To me, that isn\'t transcending, that\'s copying and trying to make it SEEM transcending.

Quote
The wavering support.

The quick fluctuation of support on the PS2 by such companies like Konami, Square, EA, and Namco is surely not a good sign. It took the Sega Genesis 4 years to draw the support of Capcom and SF2. It took the PSX 3 years to garner Square and FF7. It took the Xbox and GC 1 day to nab all of the top support from the PS2. This divergence is a scary thought when you take into consideration how quick and easy it was to careen. If the GC and Xbox can do this much damage on day one, imagine the kind of damage it can do in a year or two


There again, you are quite wrong.  It seems to me, rather than wavering support, that companies have finally realized how much money they are losing when it comes to supporting new consoles.  Know how much money Capcom lost snubbing the Genesis?  Or how much money Square lost not developing for the PSX?  No, dumbass, these developers aren\'t wavering at all, they are trying to better their financial standing.  Something you know little of, sitting in front of your computer, using mommy and daddy\'s money for the ISP who provides you with the resources to type this bile.  Yeah, there are a few games, but the majority of these companies you have stated will support ALL consoles, not just your XBox.

Quote
The huge disparity in graphics.

GT3 and Metal Gear Solid 2 are arguably the top graphical franchises for the system. These two games should be fairly contrasted to the top games of the two opposing systems. When you do a comparison, it is not accurate to compare the raw power of the consoles. The developemental process and the raw power should be the means for an accurate comparison. note: If we don\'t do that then the Saturn is technically just as powerful as the PSX - with games like Grandia and VF2 which not only matches but surpasses some of the top graphical franchises on the PSX. If we take Metal Gear Solid 2 and GT3 into comparison with DOA3 and Luigi\'s Mansion, we won\'t see much of a graphical leap, but if you delve deeper into the developemental process, you will see a stark contrast. GT3 and Metal Gear Solid have already been in developement a little prior to the PS2 launch. *Technically* both titles have already been in developement for 3 years. Both Luigi\'s Mansion and DOA3 have been in developement for no less than 2 years. With this assertion, the ratio in consideration of the graphical mean and the developemental process for each opposing systems is, give or take, 1.75:3.5. The PS2 is *technically* almost 2 times less powerful than the GC and Xbox. This should be constant because it is the controlled factor. Of course, through time, the developers will have a better grasp on the PS2 and the graphics will be better, but the same can be said of the Xbox GC thus the constant factor cannot be changed in anyway unless if any of the systems ceased production.


Ahh, you found a way to try and explain away some of the points people will undoubtably bring up against your "PS2 graphics SUCK!" statement.  Yeah, I\'m real concerned about HOW developers get their job done, as long as they keep giving us the goods.  Telling people raw power doesn\'t count is a weak and evasive argument.

When you say that games like MGS2 and GT3 have been in developmental stages way longer than games like Luigi and DOA3, could it be that they have been taking that long, not because of graphics, but because of the scope, level of detail and all-out HUGENESS of these titles?  You are taking two game made by arguably two of the biggest perfectionists in the industry and stacking them up against shallow graphic-displaying-grab-the-whore games.  NO comparison, boy.  The scope and breadth of these games ALONE will eclipse anything realeased on launch day by either console, and that is what I\'m gonna buy MGS2 for, even though the graphics are reeeal sweet too.

Why didn\'t you bring up DMC?  Oh, yeah, cause it was developed as long as either of the two examples given above and can definitely give them a run for their money, graphics-wise.

And as far as VF2 and Grandia surpassing the tops of PSX graphics, I\'d like you to site some examples of what you think the best graphical games of the PSX are, and why those two would beat them.

Your posts are funny.  The whole time you sit there and say, "You guys are fanboys and graphics whores!  Just look at the XBox\'s graphics and how the XBox brings life to the dead and walks on water, while feeding multitudes and flying around the earth so fast that it reverses time!"

I wish you could step out of your little world and see yourself for the hipocrite you really are.
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Offline Ryu
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« Reply #113 on: November 10, 2001, 03:45:10 PM »
JerginSoft already did a fine job of tearing his reply up, but I love responding to this kind of stuff regardless.  So here comes by 2 cents...

Quote
The "history of consoles" established this asserton. The Atari 2600 was the first commericialized console. The Nes was the first Japanese made console to offer games that strayed from the usual genre. The Sega Genesis was the first console to offer perfect arcade-like graphics and gameplay. The PSX was the first console to fully utilize a 3D world. Every other console that failed to be the first to transcend or revolutionize the industry - Saturn, Master System, 32X, Sega CD, 3DO, Jaguar, N64 - never capitilized on it.


The Dreamcast was the first ever console to include analog buttons into its controller.  It was also the first console to have a built in miniature mionitor in its controller that allowed you to monitor health or play mini games, it was called the VMU in case you forgot.  The Dreamcast was also the first console to go fully online with its own ISP allowing you to go head to head with other DC owners as well as surf the web.  Let\'s also not forget that the DC was the first to offer Broadband support for its console a year after its release.

What is Sega doing with their DC now?  Dropping the price to get rid of the already large amount of units collecting dust in their warehouses and selling off their first party titles to the highest bidder.  What have we learned today children?  That consoles that one-up previous generations in so many ways do not always succeed regardless of its greatness.

Quote
The quick fluctuation of support on the PS2 by such companies like Konami, Square, EA, and Namco is surely not a good sign. It took the Sega Genesis 4 years to draw the support of Capcom and SF2. It took the PSX 3 years to garner Square and FF7. It took the Xbox and GC 1 day to nab all of the top support from the PS2. This divergence is a scary thought when you take into consideration how quick and easy it was to careen. If the GC and Xbox can do this much damage on day one, imagine the kind of damage it can do in a year or two.


Konami is supporting all consoles.  Squaresoft wants to make money off of a fully online game and will make more with a larger userbase (which is why its SINGLE game is going to multiple platforms), EA has always been a multi console supporter, and Namco has as well.  I\'m sure you can name more companies, but I think your issue is large franchise titles, which will most likely be hitting the PS2 before it goes anywhere else...

As for the Genesis, lets not forget that Nintendo has a massive stranglehold on the industry with the NES and lots of contracts.  Only when those contracts were over (4 years into the Genesis\' lifespan) did they finally get certain companies.  Alteredbeast, our resident Sega affiliate will tell you that.  The PSX grabbed FF7 a year after its US release and 2 years after its Japanese release.  In the time that they grabbed the game, they had to start development over from the N64, which took about two years of development time.  Finally, 1 day for the GC\\X-Box?  You mean a lot of these things HAPPENED on the same day because these negotiations and talks have been going on for a long time now and in the end, it\'s going to take a massive load of cash to certify these games on any platform.  It just matters which company is willing to go the extra million.

The problem with your assumptions that the past has serious effects on the future is that there has never been a situation where all three consoles had distinct advantages\\disadvantages.  The PS2 has a huge userbase, Nintendo has great first party support, and Microsoft has a ton of cash and the most powerful console.  All three things basically even eachother out in the long run and this console war will be just as close as the Genesis\\SNES one.  I just hope that the games used to fight this war are both plentiful and great like they were then.

Quote
The PS2 will be the least powerful console with the *worse* graphics;The wavering support will hurt the system in the long run; And the PS2\'s inability to transcend the industry forward will forbade it to lead. You might not see it now because of the fresh start of both the GC and Xbox, but the future paints a bleak picture for the PS2 and there is little chance it will be the leader this time around.


How does the X-Box transend the industry?  As JerginSoft listed, there are many things that the PS2 and the DC did that the X-Box is now just FOLLOWING up on.  Lets also not forget that the GC is just a videogame system.  It does nothing more then play games, but it\'s innovations still outnumber the X-Box both with hidden buttons embedded in their L and R triggers along with GBA\\GCN connectivity.  If you consider a feature that has already been offered in a different form that is now built in, to be transcending, then you are sadly mistaken.

Graphics make not a console great.  Those same developers you listed above are the same ones who say that the X-Box, GCN, and PS2 are only SLIGHTLY different in terms of power.  These are the people making the games and using the dev kits as well, their words are practically gospell to the stuff you THEORIZE about.  I don\'t have a problem with you TShirts, I just have a problem with the flawed logic you use to back up your points.  It just makes you look... like a fool.
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Offline Bozco
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« Reply #114 on: November 10, 2001, 05:10:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toxical


XBOX = poor azz PC, in console wrap
]



I don\'t agree with T-Shirts but at the same time I don\'t agree with this, I think it is quite ignorant to say that, so what are your reasons for saying it?

Oh and just because it is made by microsoft doesn\'t mean its a cheap azz pc

Offline mm
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« Reply #115 on: November 10, 2001, 05:16:00 PM »
indeed

cheep azz PC = gateway

*shudder*
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Offline Ashford
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« Reply #116 on: November 10, 2001, 06:53:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mm
indeed

cheep azz PC = gateway

*shudder*


I have a Gateway PC.

:fro: :fro: :fro:
July 2002: If you had bought $1000.00 worth of Nortel stock one year ago, it would now be worth $49.00. Enron, $16.50 left. Worldcom, $5.00 left. If you had bought $1,000.00 worth of Budweiser beer one year ago, drank it all and turned in the cans for the 10 cent deposit, you would have $214.00. Based on the above, my current investment advice is to drink heavily and recycle.

Offline mm
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« Reply #117 on: November 10, 2001, 07:50:10 PM »
my heart and sympathy go out to you

hopefully, is the "family pc" and you dont have any other choice

:)
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Offline Ashford
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« Reply #118 on: November 11, 2001, 02:37:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mm
my heart and sympathy go out to you

hopefully, is the "family pc" and you dont have any other choice

:)


Actually, I paid for it all by myself. And I\'m the only one who uses it and I don\'t have any other choice, either.

:fro: :fro: :fro:
July 2002: If you had bought $1000.00 worth of Nortel stock one year ago, it would now be worth $49.00. Enron, $16.50 left. Worldcom, $5.00 left. If you had bought $1,000.00 worth of Budweiser beer one year ago, drank it all and turned in the cans for the 10 cent deposit, you would have $214.00. Based on the above, my current investment advice is to drink heavily and recycle.

Offline ooseven
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« Reply #119 on: November 11, 2001, 03:06:12 PM »
Look i might just kick this thing all off again but............

T Shirt the Stupid Mo Fooooooo

has long since gone and where are still argeuing over it  :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
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