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Author Topic: The PS2 will not stand a chance....  (Read 9168 times)

Offline fastson
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The PS2 will not stand a chance....(Merged)
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2001, 10:40:20 AM »
Getting a bit desperate are we Tshirt?

Feeling a bit scared? :laughing: :laughing:


Oh.. Right, Im a fanboy.. :rolleyes:
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Offline Metal_Gear_Ray
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The PS2 will not stand a chance....(Merged)
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2001, 11:03:24 AM »
MM...pleaze give tshirt the friggin troll picture

hes a moron, do you really think we listen to your huge post full of blabbering about your oh so great xbox and how it will win this war

:rolleyes:
Do you believe in a god that statisfies
Do you believe in a god that opens eyes?
Do you believe in a god that tells you lies?
Or do you believe in me??

Offline IronFist
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Re: The PS2 will not stand a chance....
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2001, 11:08:41 AM »
I\'m bored, so I\'ll have some fun too. :)  I\'ll try not to repeat what Seven said.
Quote
Originally posted by Tshirts
1.  Graphics

Sony failed to capitalized on this sector.  Simply put, the system looks like sh*t.  90% of the launch games on the GC and Xbox already looks better than 60% of the games on the PS2.

In your biased opinion.  In MY biased opinion, RL is the only game on the NGC that is graphically superior to the PS2.  That isn\'t too impressive seeing how the NGC is so much easier to program for.  The Xbox has DOA3 and Halo.  Other than that though, what games on the Xbox give the PS2 a run for its money?  Is it the PS2-identicle Munch, or the inferior NFL Fever?

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Many fanboys would point out such gems as Metal Gear Solid 2, GT3, and Devil May Cry as a focal graphical standpoint for the PS2.  That is the fanboy viewpoint and it is biased as such.  The average mean should be the determining factor and not the select few *top* titles.

Wouldn\'t it make more sense if we compared the best looking PS2 games with the best looking Xbox/NGC/Dreamcast games?  Maybe I\'m just crazy, but to me, that would make a lot more sense.

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If we used Shenmue and Soul Caliber as the focal graphical standard for the Dreamcast, it would still be the *best* looking console today.

You are giving way to much credit to SC and Shenmue.  Yes, they looked great for their time, but SC and Shenmue are not that graphically impressive anymore IMHO.  They are games with a reletively low polygon count masked with great textures.

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My point being is, if the graphics already look this *good* today, imagine the disparity down the line when the developers have fully harnessed both the GC and Xbox.
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That isn\'t really a fair statement.  You act as if the PS2 is not going to improve anymore -- which is again just your biased opinon.
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If 2nd generation PS2 games only equal first generation GC and Xbox games, doesn\'t that mean the system is *technically* one generation behind?

I think Seven covered this one nicely. :)

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2.  Support

The PS2 has an abundance of support but in direct constrast with the Xbox, it doesn\'t stray too far from any real advantages.  Every single franchisee has already found their way or is going to another console.  Microsoft and Nintendo both have in house personal developements that can serve as exclusives....although the PS2 has a couple, such as GT3 and TM, it is a relatively small number and is incapable of carrying the system on its own.

First you say that "Every single franchisee has already found their way or is going to another console."  Then you say "the PS2 has a couple [exclusive games]."  Make up your mind.

IMO, Sony now has the best first party.  Combine that with arguable the best 3rd party support and the PS2 is doing just fine.

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The difficult architect of the hardware.  What it boils down to is the preference of the programmers.  Preference goes a long way.  For years, developers like Treasure stayed with the Sega Genesis because of the easy-to-program architecture.  One of the main downfalls of the Saturn was its hard-to-program architecture and one of the greatest advantage of the PSX was its easy-to-program architecture.

Actually, what it boils down to is how much money the developers can make, not which system is easier to program for.  And here we go again with the PS2 vs Saturn argument.  I think I\'ve done this hundreds of times, but some people still use it to bash the PS2.  True, the downfall of the Saturn was it\'s hard to program architecture.  But there is a difference between then and now.  The Saturn was released 3 months before the easier-to-program PSX.  The PS2 is released moer than a year before the easier to program Xbox and NGC.  The PS2 has a 15 million plus userbase.  The developers have been given the time to learn the PS2 unlike the Saturn.

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Many fanboys will argue with you and say "it doesn\'t matter how hard it is, if they are getting paid for it they will do it".....

That is a huge misconception.  Microsoft and Nintendo both have the funds to render and match whatever Sony offers to these programmers.  Money is not an issue for this generation unlike the past with Sega.

What are you talking about?  So you are saying that Microsoft and Nintendo will pay the developers as much money as they would get releasing their game on the PS2?  The PS2\'s userbase is a huge factor in this console war, and no amount of money that Microsoft and Nintendo will be willing (or able) to give will be able to match the amount of money they will make releasing it on the PS2.

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How do I know?  The industrial leader always sticks to a simple, tried and true, no-risk formula.  They think they can repeat the same success with the same "rules" in a transcending industry.  That is why they fail.  They fail to realize the rapidity of growth in a technological industry like ours.  Why isn\'t Nintendo a leader today?  They stick to Mario and Zelda and the "child market".  Why will Sony fail?  They are not transcending the industry forward.  We are not playing the PSX anymore and they don\'t realize that.

Before you were bashing the PS2 because of it\'s new, hard to develope for archtecture.  Now you\'re saying that Sony hasn\'t changed one bit?  I guess Sony isn\'t taking a risk completely changing the way developers make games. :rolleyes:  The PS2 also has a huge first party unlike the PSX.  The only thing that I can think of that is the same is that the PS2 has dominance on the gaming market just like the 32/64 bit generation.

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I have no doubt in my mind Microsoft will accomplish such a feat from the reasons I gave above.  They are a serious competitor and the PS2 will not stand a chance.....not this generation anyway. [/B]

The PS2 won\'t stand a chance this generation?  So they will when the Xbox2 and NGC2 are out?  Ha.  I know that\'s not what you meant, but it\'s still funny.
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Offline ooseven
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The PS2 will not stand a chance....(Merged)
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2001, 11:08:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mm
tshirt, or gohan

explain this comment




how do u plan on xbox getting strong hold on market, WHEN PS2 ALREADY HAS IT IN ITS FRICKIN HANDS

the market, is OWNED by sony

the xbox, WILL NEVER match the PS2\'s userbase
its a year late, plain and simple




over 20 million built and well well over 16 million sold world wide with a potention ofthat hitting far higher due to the PS2 Dominance in Europe for the rest and indeed the next year.

And all the time M$ are handeling the X box with the same stratagy as their Software.

well...... lets just say that this is one battle that Mircosoft cant win by employing their usual stratagy ...................

Buying the compention out :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

and for ONCE Microsoft have some real compention to contend with, it will just be intresting to see how they handel it.


TO MM (sorry mate i didn\'t beleve that one for a micron)
oh and on the point of HALO that was meant to be running at 60 FPS, we only have to look at the promose that M$ made with Windows 95

 AT LAST this WILL be the END of the egg timmer and all Applications will load in microseconds !
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Offline mm
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The PS2 will not stand a chance....(Merged)
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2001, 11:11:47 AM »
lol, ooseven

perhaps someday, someone will actually tell me to STFU and that the XBOX will match the PS2\'s installed userbase

but i guess thats one big step noone wants to take, and have it remembered
\"Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.\" - Clemenza

Offline Bossieman
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The PS2 will not stand a chance....(Merged)
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2001, 11:14:55 AM »
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I have no doubt in my mind Microsoft will accomplish such a feat from the reasons I gave above. They are a serious competitor and the PS2 will not stand a chance.....not this generation anyway.




Quote
If we used Shenmue and Soul Caliber as the focal graphical standard for the Dreamcast, it would still be the *best* looking console today.






























Offline mm
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« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2001, 11:29:18 AM »
lol, bossieman
\"Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.\" - Clemenza

Offline ajoh432
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« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2001, 02:31:38 PM »
seven and Ironfist.... You both took that post of tshirts and rammed it up his xbox behind.... seven did a real good job... He pointed out things I have forgotten about and what I already knew....


My take on this subject:

Xbox isn\'t even out yet... So how the hell would we know who would win this "war"? I only follow where some of the greatest games are... Most of the Xbox games are games we have already played, or more of the same.

"Like my momma always said: There\'s more to videogames then flashy graphics."

And frankly... The graphics on Xbox don\'t impress me too much... Not that much of a diff... PS2 will get better..:)
.... take the skin and peel and back...

now doesn\'t it make you feel better?

Offline JediMaster
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The PS2 will not stand a chance....(Merged)
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2001, 04:38:10 PM »
Never forget the curse of the black consoles, the saturn, the N64, the Genesis, the atari......Always black consoles have never won thier generations. The Ps2 and the Xbox are both black............ What do we know, Bill Gates can buy the Xbox\'s success.

The spotlight for last year around now was on the PS2 for the entire year.... This Christmas the spotlight is fixed on the GameCube, but when/where will the Xbox come in....

*heres wisper* 3DO.............
........GGG.............A............M.......M........EEEEE......CCCC.....U......U...BBB........EEEEE.....
......G..................A.A..........MM....MM......E.............C..............U......U...B....B......E.............
.....G.....GG........A...A........M..M M..M......EEEE......C...............U......U...BBBB......EEEE.......
......G.......G......AA.AA......M.....M.....M.....E.............C..............U......U...B.....B.....E.............
........GGG.......A........A....M...............M....EEEEE......CCCC.......UUU.....BBBB.....EEEEE.....

Offline IronFist
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« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2001, 05:01:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by JediMaster
Never forget the curse of the black consoles, the saturn, the N64, the Genesis, the atari......Always black consoles have never won thier generations. The Ps2 and the Xbox are both black............ What do we know, Bill Gates can buy the Xbox\'s success.

That\'s why the PS2 is releasing the limited edition colored units. ;)
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The spotlight for last year around now was on the PS2 for the entire year.... This Christmas the spotlight is fixed on the GameCube, but when/where will the Xbox come in....

I disagree.  The Gamecube will not own this Christmas.  People are just as interested in the Xbox as they are with the NGC.  Both systems will sell out this Christmas (just speculation, I know), and the PS2 will also sell lots of units.  It isn\'t going to be easy for either the Xbox or NGC, because they are both competing against two great consoles.  IMO, the PS2 will sell the most this Christmas again.  Followed by the NGC.  And then followed CLOSELY by the Xbox (because the NGC will have more units out).
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Offline Ryu
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The PS2 will not stand a chance....(Merged)
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2001, 05:05:36 PM »
Quote
Sony failed to capitalized on this sector. Simply put, the system looks like sh*t. 90% of the launch games on the GC and Xbox already looks better than 60% of the games on the PS2.


95% of all statistics are made up on the spot.  However, let us assume that your percentages are correct and if graphics are the main reason why people buy games, then for every 1 X-Box game that looks like it\'s worth playing, I can name 2 PS2 games that are worth playing.  The problem with this statement is that some people will play certain games while others will not.  A Nascar game can be the most stunning visual show piece a console has ever seen, but not everyone likes Nascar so people would rather play GT3 or Project Gotham.  The style of the game is just as important as the graphics.  If I made a Zelda clone and marketed it towards Nintendo fanboys and made sure it looked 10x\'s better than the Zelda it was in competition with, Zelda would sell better regardless.

So graphics, graphical style, brand name recognition, and company development are all very crucial parts when it comes to game sales.

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Many fanboys would point out such gems as Metal Gear Solid 2, GT3, and Devil May Cry as a focal graphical standpoint for the PS2. That is the fanboy viewpoint and it is biased as such. The average mean should be the determining factor and not the select few *top* titles.


You said that 90% of x-box and GC games look better than most PS2 games, which ones?  The only ones that I can see that are superior then anything are DOA3, Halo, Rogue Leader, and WaveRace.  I almost discluded Wave Race simply because it\'s chief graphical achievement is the water.  DOA3\'s chief graphical achievement is its backgrounds, even though the fighters look very similar to DOA2 HC\'s representations.  Shall we go through the other launch games?

To expect every game to be an amazing graphical achievement is like expecting every hollywood film to have the best special effects ever.  Some movies and some games just don\'t need that luster or that flair.  They just need to do what they set out to accomplish:  Be Entertaining.

If everyone on this Earth had the mentality such as yourself, then no one would play Grand Theft Auto 3.  No one would play Super Monkey Ball.  No one would play 2D Street Fighter games anymore.  Since these games are still made the way they are, there is obviously an audience for them.

I\'m skipping the rest of your arguement because it is all completely contradictiary in terms... But I won\'t leave this part alone that discredits your entire thread.

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How do I know? The industrial leader always sticks to a simple, tried and true, no-risk formula.


If that was the case, then Sony would have made a console that was easy to program for, cheap to build, cheap costing, and offered 0 extras or ideas in terms of innovation.

The PS2 is a DVD\\CD\\PSX\\PS2 game player.  The PS2 has the worlds first controller that is entirely pressure sensitive which is being used today in the best games for some of the best reasons allowing 10 simple buttons (4 shoulders, 4 face, R3\\L3) to become 18 buttons thanks to it\'s ideas of pressure sensitivity.  It\'s also the first console to incorporate USB controller support\\I.Link support for its games and multiplayer.  It\'s also the first console\\DVD movie player and the first console to use the DVD format as its basic game medium.

I suppose that\'s tried and true\\low risk right?

Please, Sony and Sega are the two companies that are taking the most risk this generation.  Sega first with the idea behind a console that is designed practically as an online machine and Sony for creating an innovative console in terms of design and functionality.  The PS2 may not be the graphical beast that the X-Box is or that the GC is and it is definitely much more difficult to make games for, but it is still considered innovative for what it (the emotion engine) accomplishes.

Microsoft\\Nintendo are taking the safe route on this one.  How could they not?  The barely sold 1/3 of what the PSX sold and MS is the new kid on the block who can\'t afford to make ANY mistakes or take any huge risks, besides that glaring one of actually entering the business as a hardware manufacturer altogether.  Microsoft and Nintendo can\'t afford to do anything that will jeapordize their future in this industry, but since Sony is the leader, they can afford to take the risk and see how things turn out.  This "console war" will not be as clear cut as last generations\' but I assure you that there will be many things both companies do wrong that will make them better competitors in the future.  Who cares who will win anyways?

It\'s all about having fun and to deny yourself a Playstation 2 is to deny yourself a load of fun.  You have fun hating sony Tshirts, I\'ll have fun playing theirs, X-Box\'s and Gamecube\'s great games.
Don\'t you ever touch my cape.
-Ryu

Offline unknown
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The PS2 will not stand a chance....(Merged)
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2001, 05:19:40 PM »
I think I heard a toilet flush...., oh it was just T Shirts debate go down the drain :D
\"So are you going to kill her off?\"
Are you insane! I love her character, she stays.
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Offline JediMaster
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The PS2 will not stand a chance....(Merged)
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2001, 05:31:26 PM »
I still do not see the XBox being a successful console after the XBox accually shows off its games running at 30fps:laughing:
........GGG.............A............M.......M........EEEEE......CCCC.....U......U...BBB........EEEEE.....
......G..................A.A..........MM....MM......E.............C..............U......U...B....B......E.............
.....G.....GG........A...A........M..M M..M......EEEE......C...............U......U...BBBB......EEEE.......
......G.......G......AA.AA......M.....M.....M.....E.............C..............U......U...B.....B.....E.............
........GGG.......A........A....M...............M....EEEEE......CCCC.......UUU.....BBBB.....EEEEE.....

tippedweb
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The PS2 will not stand a chance....(Merged)
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2001, 05:48:32 PM »
Finally... some people realize that XBox is not the end all of videogames.  Heck, in my opinion, it\'s just a small "bump" in the road of videogame history.  NeoGeo anyone? :)

Offline mm
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The PS2 will not stand a chance....(Merged)
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2001, 05:49:55 PM »
tippedweb, i like you already

please dont insult the neogeo by comparing it to the xbox

i always stated the 3DO was more akin to micro$ofts offering
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