Program Linux on your PS2

Originally posted by Capcom
I can dig up a url if need be, but this linux is not going to be open source.

Please do b/c linux not being open source is against its license.  Linux is a trademark of Linus Torvalds and is established under the GNU/GPL license which states that anyone is free to modify the code of Linux but shall not re-distribute it without the source code.

http://www.gnu.org

The media it\'s stored has nothing to do with whether it is open source.

Originally posted by EmperorRob
Please do b/c linux not being open source is against its license.  Linux is a trademark of Linus Torvalds and is established under the GNU/GPL license which states that anyone is free to modify the code of Linux but shall not re-distribute it without the source code.

http://www.gnu.org

The media it\'s stored has nothing to do with whether it is open source.

I am currently going through my history via babelfish for the japanese page. I think the url below is for an american page that had or has the ps2 dev page. Their server went down tonight. I don\'t think it is permanent, and should be back up tommorrow. I could not load the page tonight so I am not 100% positive it is the correct url.

http://www.speckz.com/article.php?sid=94

I have another link that indirectly supports my statement. It is from a ps2 programmer forum with some hands on.
http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/forum.php?thread_id=15&forum_id=4

If they still can not mount a cdr disk after a few months. Don\'t you think they would or could have recompiled the kernel by now. Dont\'t you think they would have? Sony can not chance making it easier to pirate games. If programmers had their way. Don\'t you think they would alter the kernel so ps2 games could be stored locally on the hard drive. You could put quite a few games on a 40 gig hard drive.

Bottom line is you can not recompile something on read only storage aka the dvd disk. I suppose you might be able to do some recompliling on a modded ps2, but of what use is this going to do?

Here is a link to to a pic of the japanese install of the linux kit on the ps2.

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/pc/docs/article/20010622/p01.jpg

As a sidenote EmperorRob if you have any urls dissproving otherwise other than gnu please post them. I realize I am a newbie to these boards, but it appears I am one of the few actually having to prove every statement with a url. I would love to see some of yours.

Here is another link for you.

http://playstation2-linux.com/faq.php

Sony Faq for the PS2 linux kit
[B"Is the HDD compatible with PlayStation 2 Games ?

At the time of writing, the internal hard disk drive (for PlayStation 2) (HDD) is not supported by any PlayStation 2 games in North America and is only sold for use with Linux (for PlayStation 2). In the future, PlayStation 2 games in North America may support the HDD. A HDD with Linux (for PlayStation 2) installed cannot be used with these games."
[/B]

This is son\'t official faq posted at athe above web page. Please note that it says that " A HDD with Linux (for PlayStation 2) installed cannot be used with these games." Thus my first assertion about using this kit, and not doing online games is correct. Although I have read, and posted a url of ffx being installed succesfully with the linux kit.

Sony Faq for the PS2 linux kit
"Can I program PlayStation 2 Games under Linux (for PlayStation 2) ?

You can program your own games that will work under Linux (for PlayStation 2). Software that you develop can also take advantage of the PlayStation 2 high performance graphics hardware. However, you cannot make your own CDs or DVDs that will operate with a PlayStation 2."

This is very self-explanatory. You are more than likely not going to be able to use your own cdr\'s. Thus limiting usefulness as a developer tool.

Sony Faq for the PS2 linux kit
" thought Linux was free - so why are you selling it ?

We are selling a kit for the PlayStation 2 that allows the Linux operating system to be used. Under the terms of the GNU GPL (http://www.gnu.org), the Linux kernel and other GPL licensed software components may be distributed for a fee as long as the source code and license are included. DISC 2 in the Linux (for PlayStation 2) kit meets the requirements of the GPL as well as the other licenses for the software packages on DISC 2."

Where in the gnu agreement emperorrob does it say that you must be able to recompile the kernel on the intended platform? You could theoretically do all kinds of things to it. To bad it won\'t boot up. You are not suppose to charge for linux in the first place. So the companies get around the free by either making you dl from the web or pay for the tech support. In the end it is easier to just pay for the support. Bottom line Sony found a loophole. Here is the source code for the kernel. To bad you can not boot your own recompiled kernel because of copywrite protection. So even though it is technically open source. It really is not since you can\'t do squat to it.

I have read of some things on this not being entirely correct like a ffx install, but this is sony\'s official word on things. So until you or I get our hands on a kit this should be taken as law.

Capcom, the last quote of your last post says exactly what I just said.  The source code will be included with the Linux version of the PS2.  You said this Linux would not be open source and you were wrong.  That is why I corrected you.

Furthermore what Sony is doing is not new.  Red Hat, Mandrake, Suse and others have been doing it for some time now.  The money they charge is not for Linux, it\'s for the distribution.

I will say again, that it does not matter what media it comes on, Linux is Linux is Linux and it is open source.

Don\'t get caught up in all that other stuff.  Open Source is simply a right to view and own a copy of the source code of some piece of software whatever it may be.  What you do with that is up to you.  You may even redistribute it, but if you do so you must abide by the GNU license and include your source and the GNU license.

Originally posted by EmperorRob
Capcom, the last quote of your last post says exactly what I just said.  The source code will be included with the Linux version of the PS2.  You said this Linux would not be open source and you were wrong.  That is why I corrected you.

Furthermore what Sony is doing is not new.  Red Hat, Mandrake, Suse and others have been doing it for some time now.  The money they charge is not for Linux, it\'s for the distribution.

I will say again, that it does not matter what media it comes on, Linux is Linux is Linux and it is open source.

Don\'t get caught up in all that other stuff.  Open Source is simply a right to view and own a copy of the source code of some piece of software whatever it may be.  What you do with that is up to you.  You may even redistribute it, but if you do so you must abide by the GNU license and include your source and the GNU license.

So show me the url that says you can modify the kernel? If you can not do anything with the kernel. It is essentially locked, and goes against everything that open source stands for. Thus I do not consider it true open source.

Also could you provide a url for your distrubution? I seem to remember my redhat, and suse saying they were charging for technical support for 1 year.

Capcom, I will say this one more time in as few and simple words as I can:

THE GNU LICENSE STATES THAT SOFTWARE DISTRIBUTED UNDER THIS LICENSE MUST ALSO INCLUDE ITS SOURCE CODE AND MAY NOT BE RE-DISTRIBUTED EXCEPT UNDER THE TERMS OF THIS LICENSE.

There is nothing in the GNU license that says distributors must furnish a compiler or a word processor or even what format the source must be in.  There is also nothing about technical support.

Once again, but this time in bigger letters:

OPEN SOURCE = SOURCE CODE INCLUDED WITH DISTRIBUTION

Now go back to your post where you quoted this:

Sony Faq for the PS2 linux kit
" thought Linux was free - so why are you selling it ?

We are selling a kit for the PlayStation 2 that allows the Linux operating system to be used. Under the terms of the GNU GPL (http://www.gnu.org), the Linux kernel and other GPL licensed software components may be distributed for a fee as long as the source code and license are included. DISC 2 in the Linux (for PlayStation 2) kit meets the requirements of the GPL as well as the other licenses for the software packages on DISC 2."

Sony is distributing Linux as open source and meeting the requirements of the GNU GPL license.  This is open source.

Rob since you are this mass linux guru then name one other linux kernel out there that you can not modify? We are not even talking about a compiler here.  If you can not recompile your own kernel you essentially have a crippled version of linux. If it is not crippled then please provide a url other than gnu. So far I have posted over 4 pertinent url\'s to the ps2 linux kit with 1 for you, and I don\'t consider your 1 valid since it is a generic linux page. I would like too see ps2 linux kit included in a link.

What exactly is the open source used for if not to be continaully modified? The entire purpose of source is so that the kernel can continually be revised by the user. Not so you can just look at the source code, and dream. I am fairly certain I read this in a mission statement a few years ago. I will not locate the url for you because you are too lazy to look for it. Look for yourself. I am sure it is still there.

Btw I am still waiting for a url that mentions what you pay for when you buy linux.

Capcom, first of all it has not been said whether you will be able to compile a kernel on the PS2 or not.  Even if you can\'t, what makes you think you can\'t crossover your ethernet cable to a PC, download your kernel, and then compile it there?

I told you Linux was open source and that the version Sony is releasing is also open source and all linux is distributed under the GNU GPL license which can be found on any distro of Linux, their homepages, or the GNU Project\'s website, whose URL I have already posted.  I am sorry if "your version of Open Source" conflicts with the GNU version.

Second, every link you have posted has stated the exact same things I already posted, so I don\'t see what you are trying to prove other than you are wrong and you have websites to prove it.

Originally posted by EmperorRob
Capcom, first of all it has not been said whether you will be able to compile a kernel on the PS2 or not.  Even if you can\'t, what makes you think you can\'t crossover your ethernet cable to a PC, download your kernel, and then compile it there?

I told you Linux was open source and that the version Sony is releasing is also open source and all linux is distributed under the GNU GPL license which can be found on any distro of Linux, their homepages, or the GNU Project\'s website, whose URL I have already posted.  I am sorry if "your version of Open Source" conflicts with the GNU version.

Second, every link you have posted has stated the exact same things I already posted, so I don\'t see what you are trying to prove other than you are wrong and you have websites to prove it.

I could be wrong since I have not complied from x86 to sparc, but I don\'t think that will work. I think you may need to compile on the intended platform. Not to mention if it boots the needed files off of the dvd there is no way to modify read only media.

so far as the definition of open souce. Sony is within it\'s legal rights. That does not mean that this version is carrying over the spirit of open source. Name one other version of linux that is closed as the ps2? The reason you can not modify it is from my understanding that it is still held on the dvd-rom.

As so far as what you have posted. I have yet to see any info regarding the ps2 linux kit. I see a bunch of generic links to the same place gnu.

So far as i can see I have posted no invalid information per the ps2 linux faq. A disagreement as to what open source means, but this may be a hold over in mentallity of a few years ago. In the end this version of linux is as closed as a microsoft os which I truly hate to see. You will be able to create applications within the ps2, but never mess with the core os.

Slow down Capcom, we don\'t know that for certain yet.  So what if it\'s on DVD?  You can copy it somewhere else.  DVDs can be mounted just like any other disc.  Hell you could probably mount it on your linux box at your house.

Don\'t get all worked up b/c you think you can\'t recompile the kernel yet.

If you\'d like to know why I only mention the GNU website it\'s simple:  Linux was established under this license.  So no matter what version of Linux you run, Sparc, alpha, x86, PS2, X-box, Dreamcast, or a Handheld PalmPilot, each version has to be distributed according to terms of its license.

Originally posted by EmperorRob
Slow down Capcom, we don\'t know that for certain yet.  So what if it\'s on DVD?  You can copy it somewhere else.  DVDs can be mounted just like any other disc.  Hell you could probably mount it on your linux box at your house.

Don\'t get all worked up b/c you think you can\'t recompile the kernel yet.

If you\'d like to know why I only mention the GNU website it\'s simple:  Linux was established under this license and may not be distributed under any other license.  So no matter what version of Linux you run, Sparc, alpha, x86, PS2, X-box, Dreamcast, or a Handheld PalmPilot, each version has to be distributed according to terms of the GNU license.

It is one of my earlier posts, but there is a url talking about mounting cd\'s. Because of possible piracy problems sony has disabled that function. Look up I think it is the japanese url.

I also think you misunderstood my previous statement. I was talking about compiling the kernel on another platform. This may go so far as applications, but I have never attempted to compile a homebuilt appliacation on a x86 box. If you have then perhaps you can shed some light on that. I am not all that concerned with the license agreement.

Don\'t get me wrong. I will probably buy this, but only because you can mount your memory cards like drives. Thus I am hoping a custom application can be made to handle memory card saves. i would love to be able to store my game saves on my hard drive.

I agree that the gnu website would be a good place to look for general info on linux, but this appears not to be a run of the mill version. To my knowledge it is the only one that runs from a dvd-rom, and can not be re-compiled.

The only thing I saw about DVDs was concerning DVD-RAM, which is to DVDs what CDRs are to CDs.

But if you want to, try e-mailing Sony about it.  I didn\'t see any questions on compiling the kernel on the FAQ and the site seems to be down now.

Think of the children! What about the children?!

Nah, Linux on PS2 would be a nice thing to have. It\'s great that Linux is spreading all around the world, with it\'s power at it\'s back.

Originally posted by EmperorRob
The only thing I saw about DVDs was concerning DVD-RAM, which is to DVDs what CDRs are to CDs.

But if you want to, try e-mailing Sony about it.  I didn\'t see any questions on compiling the kernel on the FAQ and the site seems to be down now.

I do believe I have lost all interest in conversing with you. DVD-RAm, and DVD-R are two different mediums. Some dvd players will support the dvd-ram technology whereas dvd-r is the standard. It is more akin to comparing cd-r\'s with cd-rw\'s. My analogy is alot more wrong than right, but it is in the general ballpark atleast. I don\'t really care to go in depth more about this subject. I would suggest you doing some personal research though.

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/ibselec/dvdramvsdvdr.html


There is a very brief overview.

There are a ton of japanese pages that discuss the inability to mount the cd-rom or more precisly the dvd drive from within the ps2 linux kit currently out in japan.

Also it is quite crude to beliitle someone like you did in a earlier post when you clearly don\'t have a firm grasp on current technology.

Just found this Capcom, looks like you can recompile the kernel

http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/forum.php?thread_id=24&forum_id=4