Who\'s Winning the Console War? (An article from MSNBC)

[GmanJoe]

Bah! Triple A....I liked SSX. AC2 needed analog control. Japanese gamers loved it anway.

But considering that I played FF9 on my PS2....than I gotta say that FF9 was a AAA game at launch time!

Heh...

But I played Dynasty Warriors 2 just as much as FF9. You try killing 2000 baddies in one hour with only a machete!!!

[Bobs_Hardware]

to Watchdog

good thing i never claimed SSX to be a AAA game, i merely stated that it did get somewhat of a build up, whether or not that is due to the fact its the only good game in the line up is irrelevant (and debatable)

i guarantee you people still play SSX and people still love it, probably about as much as Halo will be played and loved about a year from now too (ok, mebbe not that much )

Tricky sucked and was just a re-hash and was practically the same as the original...therefore, nobody cared about it, as you said

and SSX still is a good game

once again, i never said SSX was a AAA game but many other do including some reviewers (not enough to still be classified as a AAA game) where as you are going by your opinion "It\'s not bias, it\'s truth. SSX is not that good. "  i dont care if its a launch game or not, to get review scores as high as it did it had to retain some gameplay elements that made it slightly popular...

[Bobs_Hardware]

To Blade..

As for "the GCN is a failure so the game has to be ported".. the system is doing great in Japan. Once Nintendo and 3rd-parties got more than 3 freakin\' games on the street, sales started to pick up.

how the hell can you say the NGC sales have picked up??  PS2 is still outselling it by 4 times as much in Japan, and the sales of the GC are getting lower and lower each week

With the introduction of Doshin the Giant and RE1.. and eventually Mario Sunshine and Zelda.. not to mention plenty of other titles.. I think the sales will skyrocket in comparison to today\'s. The system isn\'t doing badly in the US either.. if Microsoft and Nintendo aren\'t lying about sales numbers, MS has a lead.. but they\'ve also shipped more units. And have more games on the street, plus everybody has it in their heads that Xbox technologically stands head and shoulders above the GameCube. With all of this in mind, I believe Nintendo is doing fine. Not super, but things will pick up to an extent

they need to get these games out NOW!  not later to have any chance at all, sales have slowed down and they need to get their games out in Japan before Xbox launches (even though XBox wont do particularly well IMO) just look at how badly GC is doing soley against PS2, imagine when another console is introduced with its marketting and games, its going to take a lot of shine away from GC

They just have to rally some more high-profile 3rd-party support from stubborn developers like Tecmo and Konami.. and start shipping more \'Cubes to the US. The announcement that Enix is working on GCN software certainly gives it a boost in RPG fans\' eyes, especially in the Japanese market.

but they are NOT getting third party developers, they gained a few more but now they are starting to lose them again due to their poor sales.  If Enix announce some RPG\'s then thats fantastic, GC is saved temporarily and will have enough of an installed base.  Nintendo have royally ****ed up this gen so far and need to cover their asses and quickly!

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Amped never had the same build up as SSX...and its reviews scores were not as high and was never truely considered AAA status material, SSX was, your just using your opinion and your XBox bias on this one Watchdog
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You said this.  You are obviously arguing that it is AAA.

You can\'t compare reviews from a year ago to reviews today--expectations are higher and therefore scores will be lower.  If Amped was released a year ago, it would have recieved much better reviews.  That alone wouldn\'t make it AAA.  BTW, I really liked SSX too.


I guarentee that there are people still playing Ridge Racer and people who love it just as much as Halo--that means absolutely nothing.  There are still playing Burger Time, but I wouldn\'t want to see a port.

[Bobs_Hardware]

i wasnt arguing that it was AAA putz, i was arguing that SSX had the build up of a AAA game so it wouldnt be so far off if people did consider it the first PS2 AAA game..

Originally posted by Terry Bogard


And all you care about is your pathetic Xbox?  Come on, Oh if Xbox is in 2nd, thats where its going to stay. Nintendo will crumble from this No.  Whats most important is........



People who have a particular Console preference will get the games that they wish to play. Who cares about the war, or how many consoles sold. Its all about the games IMO. Does anyone really really care about how many units sold over a kick ass game coming out to each system?  So whos winning the war. SONY of course.  Who has the better games SONY of course. I know this may be making me sound like a bias Sony fanboy, but, I own an Xbox, so that renders the fanboy part obselete. I\'m just saying, from the facts I read over the past weeks over game sales. Sony is brining it in. Not MS. Oh, and don\'t say DOA3 is a AAA game, even though the reiveiwers like it, because DOA3 isn\'t an AAA game, its just DOA 2 pretty. Wheres Xbox\'s other AAA game besides Halo?  Hmm, I mean, Come on, PS2 has alot more AAA games then Xbox will its first year out.

Wow, you sound like a real xbox hater[/i].

[BizioEE]

Originally posted by SonyFan
If Sony had started making consoles with the PS2.. then I have a feeling Sega would still be selling massive amounts of Dreamcasts, Nintnedo would be the console to beat, and this forum wouldn\'t even exist. Sony only overcame their initial problems because of the wonderful job they did with the PSX and the hype which followed it.

If I had several balls...I should be a billiard table

Sony whould have never started making consoles with a complex and difficult to develop for machine like PS2...FACT IS...they started with a friendly piece of hardware...and MS did the same...they are not stupid...

...I\'m pretty sure "XBox2" will have a new architecture too...

Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware


If XBox doesnt win this generation XBox will not ever win (and before you say anything...yes i can see into the future)  Sony made a lot of screw ups this time round, probably more than any other company...running off the success of the most successful console ever (depsite the fact that the PSX only kicked as much ass as it did due to piracy) these problems have hardly hampered the PS2 in its attempt at the majority share in the business...

i really do think that Sony are going to come out swinging next generation (and obviously so will Microsoft)... and i believe the PS2 to be merely a training lesson for developers to get used to such issues as the multiple proccessors on multiple tasks and the texture streaming... PS2 is already incredibly popular, if developers want their games to be seen on it, they will need to learn...once they have learned it will all be good for the PS3 (or perhaps the PlayStationAdvance)

Can you imagine the marketing if both Sony and Microsoft launch their consoles at the same time next time round.. :eek:

Bob that has to be the most unthought out thing you said yet. If XBox doesnt win this generation XBox will not ever win.   Bob I don\'t know if that was a thought out statement or something out of emotions. Microsoft knew they would not catch sony this generation. Sony was the number console maker last time around. They blew their competion out of the water.  And they would come back this year with all the backing they had previously.

The industry does not work like you think son. As dominate as psx was. And all the hype and excitement that would go into it\'s sequal. There is noway in this industry you can expect to just come into a single generation and dethrone a console. Microsoft knows this and should have too.

And sony would have a one year lead on xbox. So Microsoft plain this generation is to gain developers and grab enough of the market to set themselves up for next generation. And it looks like all that is going to happen. The xbox is selling very well.  Being internet reading it will be the first of the big three console to offer online games. So microsoft will have the entire online community to themselves.

And seeing how a lot of developers have many ideas for online gaming this gives xbox a tramedous boost. With developers seeing Microsofts commitment towards gaming and seeing what direction Microsoft wants to take xbox as far as total gaming that builds  trust.

If this generation comes out like this. Sony-50%, Xbox-30%, and Nintendo 20%. Which it looks like this could very well be the case. Don\'t you think microsoft would have put themselves in a great position for next generation? I mean sony nearly had 20% of the market before xbox and gcn launched.  But next generation gamers would have been able to see xbox and see what type of system it was really ment to be.

[Bobs_Hardware]

Originally posted by BizioEE
...I\'m pretty sure "XBox2" will have a new architecture too...

see now this is a point i would have doubts about...but then again, its the obvious choice, they dont want bottle necks and other constictions so they would pretty much have to change...had the current generation been Microsoft\'s second generation, i\'d be willing to bet they would have gone the same way they did this time round..

Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware


see now this is a point i would have doubts about...but then again, its the obvious choice, they dont want bottle necks and other constictions so they would pretty much have to change...had the current generation been Microsoft\'s second generation, i\'d be willing to bet they would have gone the same way they did this time round..

It all depends on how tight the market is. If they pretty much demolished there competition I am sure they probally would.

[Bobs_Hardware]

Originally posted by QuDDus



Bob that has to be the most unthought out thing you said yet. If XBox doesnt win this generation XBox will not ever win.   Bob I don\'t know if that was a thought out statement or something out of emotions. Microsoft knew they would not catch sony this generation. Sony was the number console maker last time around. They blew their competion out of the water.  And they would come back this year with all the backing they had previously.

The industry does not work like you think son. As dominate as psx was. And all the hype and excitement that would go into it\'s sequal. There is noway in this industry you can expect to just come into a single generation and dethrone a console. Microsoft knows this and should have too.

And sony would have a one year lead on xbox. So Microsoft plain this generation is to gain developers and grab enough of the market to set themselves up for next generation. And it looks like all that is going to happen. The xbox is selling very well.  Being internet reading it will be the first of the big three console to offer online games. So microsoft will have the entire online community to themselves.

And seeing how a lot of developers have many ideas for online gaming this gives xbox a tramedous boost. With developers seeing Microsofts commitment towards gaming and seeing what direction Microsoft wants to take xbox as far as total gaming that builds  trust.

If this generation comes out like this. Sony-50%, Xbox-30%, and Nintendo 20%. Which it looks like this could very well be the case. Don\'t you think microsoft would have put themselves in a great position for next generation? I mean sony nearly had 20% of the market before xbox and gcn launched.  But next generation gamers would have been able to see xbox and see what type of system it was really ment to be.

i apologize, my post was badly phrased, but my point still remains that Microsoft (or any other console maker for that matter) have missed their best chance at dethroning Sony. this generation was the best chance they were going to have despite being a year behind

Sony made many mistakes this generation that Microsoft and Nintendo should have capitolised on... possibly all these mistakes allowed in the end was for them both to take a decent market share (for the overall good of the industry, who wants a monopoly).  I never blieved Microsoft could take number one spot this gen. but i have always claimed that it was their best chance for reasons outlined above.  

There is noway in this industry you can expect to just come into a single generation and dethrone a console

Lets look at the past and how Sony managed to dominate despite being a new name..

Sega and Nintendo held the entire market practically.  Sega and Nintendo made mistakes and fuct up.  Sony come in and take over.

This generation Sony is dominating, and they make mistakes and fuct up...Microsoft have not taken control and dominated.. Sony will remain dominant (and i will predict right now that it will be more than a 50% share)

Next generation...do you think Sony are going to be making the same mistakes??  therefore making it much MUCH harder for Microsoft to ceize control of the industry...

and remember son, whatever Microsoft try to start dominating the industry, Sony are also trying to stay on top of the industry

all i merely meant by my post was that it was their best chance, whether or not Microsoft were intending to take the number one spot or not..

:fro: toot on

[Bobs_Hardware]

Originally posted by QuDDus


It all depends on how tight the market is. If they pretty much demolished there competition I am sure they probally would.

thats a good point..

Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware

Lets look at the past and how Sony managed to dominate despite being a new name..

Sega and Nintendo held the entire market practically.  Sega and Nintendo made mistakes and fuct up.  Sony come in and take over.

This generation Sony is dominating, and they make mistakes and fuct up...Microsoft have not taken control and dominated.. Sony will remain dominant (and i will predict right now that it will be more than a 50% share)

Next generation...do you think Sony are going to be making the same mistakes??  therefore making it much MUCH harder for Microsoft to ceize control of the industry...

and remember son, whatever Microsoft try to start dominating the industry, Sony are also trying to stay on top of the industry

all i merely meant by my post was that it was their best chance, whether or not Microsoft were intending to take the number one spot or not..

:fro: toot on

I knew you would bring up psx taking charge. But first let me say the market was getting stale. Nintendo had did developers bad. And sega was coming off unsuccessful ventures.

And this all I said-The industry does not work like you think son. As dominate as psx was. And all the hype and excitement that would go into it\'s sequal. There is noway in this industry you can expect to just come into a single generation and dethrone a console. Microsoft knows this and should have too.

I said as dominate as psx was. Sega nor Nintendo never sold 75million consoles in a single generation. If sega had of been that dominate there is noway psx would have been able to step right in and take over. Sony had an unpresidented fanbase. And developer backing.

You can think for hours and hours on the subject. Only way xbox would have stood a chance of being number 1 is if ps2 and xbox would have both launched last year. Sony took nearly 10million units sold in one year or more. That\'s a huge

[Bobs_Hardware]

Originally posted by QuDDus


I knew you would bring up psx taking charge. But first let me say the market was getting stale. Nintendo had did developers bad.

the market was hardly growing stale, its easy to say that know seeing the revolution that PSX caused, but the market was not stale, it was constantly growing and it took the PSX to just accelerate that faster than ever before..

Originally posted by QuDDus
I said as dominate as psx was. Sega nor Nintendo never sold 75million consoles in a single generation. If sega had of been that dominate there is noway psx would have been able to step right in and take over. Sony had an unpresidented fanbase. And developer backing.

your comparing the industry 7 years ago directly to what it is today.  the industry was not as big then as it is no.  the Snes selling 50 million units worldwide would be about equivillent to PSX selling 75-100 million units.. my point above still stands.  SEGA AND NINTENDO SCREWED UP BIG TIME AND SONY JUMPED IN AND TOOK CONTROL...im sure when Sony first decided to make their console they were only optimistically hopeful of getting a market share but the dev\'s screwed up and they capitolized on the opportunity.  This time around Sony were the ones making the mistake and Microsoft have not taken the opportunity.

Sega and Nintendo did have the installed user base of the previous generation...Sega and Nintendo were the entire damn industry, before PC\'s even became huge... what Sony did to take of and dominate was HUGE

Sega + Nintendo dominate = screw up, Sony come out on top
Sony screw up = Sony come out on top

you can see what i mean about this being XBox\'s best chance??

I\'m not going to post a long reply this time.. I\'m not going to post a long reply.. I\'m not.. okay, let\'s go.

Bob: Nintendo didn\'t screw up big time, IMO. They haven\'t "lost" any developers that we know of. I stated that Tecmo and Konami are stubborn, but in fact they are both working on GCN software. The problem is, the stuff they\'re providing is probably not on the level of a Ninja Gaiden or Castlevania title.. yet. Heck, Nintendo is so darned secretive that if Tecmo did have a Ninja Gaiden game going.. Nintendo would try to strong-arm them into announcing it at E3 or SW2002 instead of say, right now.

As for Capcom porting RE1/RE4 to PS2.. I think you\'ve been jumping to conclusions here. Just because Capcom executives have said "oh, if GCN isn\'t doing well enough.. we might have to port the game".. it doesn\'t mean much. Remember when Hiroshi Yamauchi said that the GCN would never launch if it wasn\'t well-accepted at E3 last year?

You mention GCN\'s comparatively poor sales in Japan.. well then, my dear friend Bobby, the situation hasn\'t changed much! (unfortunately)

What does Nintendo have in Japan now? 7, 8 games? That is nothing compared to the PS2\'s lineup. If Nintendo made one mistake, that\'s it right there. Although, 2 games were able to sell 700,000 GCN units a few months ago (SSBM and Pikmin) so I\'m guessing it doesn\'t take much to move systems. I\'m guessing that RE1 will move at least 200,000 GCN units and prove to Japanese disbelievers that GCN has a chance to stay for the long-term. (and to prove that it\'s technologically better than PS2)