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Author Topic: Graphics.. worth discussing?  (Read 3812 times)

Offline TheOgodlyThlng
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Graphics.. worth discussing?
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2002, 12:46:24 PM »
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and the game play is so compelling that everyone in the world plays video games in there free time...what happens next?


We wire are brains to the computer, the untimate form of virtual reality.  You will then be part of the game, as if it were real.

Offline IronFist
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Graphics.. worth discussing?
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2002, 12:46:26 PM »
Well pstwo and TheOgodlyThlng, I would love to stay here and defend my opinion, but I\'ve got better things to do, EDIT: like debunking your arguments.  (Heh. I really don\'t have anything better to do.)

TheOgodlyThlng
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LOL, I can\'t believe you just said that, what a JOKE! Graphics is what is driving the whole business in video game companies.

Sure graphics are important, but not to the extent you are making them out to be.  Graphics DO NOT drive this industry.  We can do comparisons of every generation since gaming started, and in every case, the console with better graphics never came out on top.  The weaker, uglier system always did better (or just as good in the Genesis/SNES era).  How can that be if graphics are what drives this industry?

Why did DOA3 sell like crap compared to Halo?  It had unbelievable graphics, so it should have been the top seller last year.  Why did GTA3 shoot to the top of the charts (already selling over 4 million copies worldwide)?  Is it because of the unbelievable slowdown, or the beautiful low polygonal people (relatively speaking)?  How come The Bouncer was one of Square\'s biggest flops?  It\'s graphics were unprecedented at the time.  Why did the PS2 sell more than the Xbox and NGC combined in the last couple months of last year?  Why is the PS2 still selling more than the Xbox and NGC combined this year?  It\'s graphics are obviously a lot more jaggie.  How come the PSone sold just as much as the NGC in the 3rd week of January? (about 10 thousand each)

I\'ll tell you why.  Because people, even the non-hardcore gamers, look past the graphics.

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Why do you think SONY corp. and NVIDIA and the rest are spending millions on creating new graphics chips that allow us to close in the gap between game\'s and reality

They are not only making newr graphics chips, but completely new ways of developing games.  The CELL (Sony\'s and IBM\'s newest chip in development) is obviously going to be able to handle better graphics.  But even more importantly, it will be able to handle better gameplay.  Do you think games like Dynasty Warriors 3 and State of Emergency could be done on the PSX, Saturn, or N64?  Of course not.  There is way too many characters on screen at once and, a bigger problem, way too much AI to process at once for those older, less powerful systems.

And even though you were not replying to me, I\'m still going to respond to it:
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BS!!! Then why don\'t you go play your SNES or Atari. If what you said were really true then we would still be playing with our SEGA Geneses and stuck in the 16-bit era.

That argument is so lame.  He was obviously not saying, "graphics don\'t matter in games and I think all games should be made pong style."  But he was saying that at the point that graphics are at today, is there really a need for them to get better?  Will that really make the game that much funner to play?

BTW TheOgodlyThlng, it\'s good to have you back. :)  What\'s up with your post count though?


PStwo:
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IMO, graphics will just get better and better. Do you think the PS3 will have bad graphics and great gameplay?  

No, I think the PS3 will have great graphics and even better gameplay.  Especially with online gaming being the standard then.

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Do you still think the MS post bad screens shots? You better see Wreckless on your tv because it looks much better then a screen shot.

I didn\'t say MS did. (even though they do sometimes).  I said some individual developers do.  And I know Wreckless has some wonderful graphics, but are they as high res as the original pics were?  Heh, I didn\'t think so.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2002, 01:36:28 PM by IronFist »
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Offline TheOgodlyThlng
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Graphics.. worth discussing?
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2002, 12:48:46 PM »
edit
« Last Edit: February 14, 2002, 01:35:31 PM by TheOgodlyThlng »

Offline IronFist
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Graphics.. worth discussing?
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2002, 01:30:56 PM »
BUMP so people see my edit above.
[color=88bbbb]\"How glorious is the future... there never were men who had so great reason to rejoice as we, since the world began.\"[/color]

Offline Heretic
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Graphics.. worth discussing?
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2002, 01:59:21 PM »
Graphics can be an interesting topic to discuss but not with knuckel heads that think a stuttering Halo or Wreckless at 30 fps is some kind of record benchmark to be worshiped.

5 years before graphics are to a point where they take a back seat compared to gameplay?  Sounds reasonable enough to me. What are you silly whores laughing about?

Offline BizioEE

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Graphics.. worth discussing?
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2002, 02:03:24 PM »
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FSAA is not a free feature. It costs a developer memory, fill rate, and frame rate.


Nothing is free in hardware,and HRAA costs memory bandwidth,not fill rate...

Give the XBox more time...I waited almost 2 years to see good graphics on PS2...

...and about Rallisport...I\'ve watched the latest movies...and it\'s great!  no complaint about AA...
« Last Edit: February 14, 2002, 02:13:50 PM by BizioEE »
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Offline fastson
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Graphics.. worth discussing?
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2002, 02:04:00 PM »
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Originally posted by TheOgodlyThlng


BS!!!  Then why don\'t you go play your SNES or Atari. If what you said were really true then we would still be playing with our SEGA Geneses and stuck in the 16-bit era.

Graphics are extremely important, granite the game that a company’s them must be good as well, and other wise it\'s just eye candy. The more realistic the graphics are the more involved we get into the game, especially if it\'s a really well made one.


How do you know what I play?
I still play the StarWars games on my SNES, DonkeyKong 1 ect.
I still play my old PSX games.. I still play some of my old PC games (NFS1 which I still love.. StarCraft, Red Alert)

I play my old GameBoy games (Trax, Tetris, Burn and Hercules;))
\"Behold, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed\"
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Offline BizioEE

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Graphics.. worth discussing?
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2002, 02:41:32 PM »
Graphics is important for me,but what I want is more available power for animations,physics,AI,collision-system and more interactive environments...in a word,more power for a more realistc and involving game-play...and a much greater freedom in the actions...but I know...PS2,GC and XBox are not enough powerful to show what I want...maybe the next generation:D

...PS2?...months and months ago I believed this console were able to show all this...but I was a fool...or...I\'d say better,Sony made a fool of me..."The Next Generation Graphics...the Next Step...the next generation games..."...like a brainwashing...Where? Where??  Always the same game-play,the same games(J&D the true next Gen Game? Where?)...I\'m pissed off...Hope the XBox will show something more...let\'s wait and see....

IMO...the DreamCast is the only one console,right now,which has lived up to my expectations!
« Last Edit: February 14, 2002, 02:44:05 PM by BizioEE »
He has the power of both worlds
Girl: What power… beyond my expectations?
AND IT\'S PERSONAL
Demon: No… the legendary Sparda!?
Dante: You\'re right, but I\'m his son Dante!

Offline fastson
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Graphics.. worth discussing?
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2002, 03:50:26 PM »
BizioEE: Congrats on your 1000 post..

Im hoping Outcast 2 will be a game were you get to explore big worlds. Ive only played the demo of the first and it had some exploration.

It sure has the looks. Im hoping for AAA gameplay as well. :)
I dont want to start a screen vs screen debate so Ill just give you the link to Gamespot. -> Here

I liked Jak and Daxter alot. It did not have as much exploration (it was more like "collect x number of powercells and you can advance") as I had hoped, but it was still a very good game.

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in a word,more power for a more realistc and involving game-play...and a much greater freedom in the actions...but I know...PS2,GC and XBox are not enough powerful to show what I want...maybe the next generation


That is not only limited by power.. But the developers as well.. You know every action has to be programmed for it to happen. Coding a lot of actions will take a lot of time. Especially on these new consoles.
A game which lets you do anything is going to take a lot of time to do, and cost a lot of money.
I think its more limited by developers and money than it is by power..
« Last Edit: February 14, 2002, 05:18:10 PM by fastson »
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Offline ddaryl
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Graphics.. worth discussing?
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2002, 05:05:04 PM »
I love graphics

love discussing them, and being educated on how they work technolgy wise.

Arguing over what machine is superior is worthless cause most of us know where each  console has strengths and weaknesses

but Graphics are only one of the A\'s in AAA


Have a groovy day



Offline Bobs_Hardware

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Graphics.. worth discussing?
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2002, 05:41:38 PM »
well, it seems to have turned into a graphics vs. gameplay debate...not that i mind too much, as long as there is some discussion happenen..

everyone seems to be posting intelligent replies....except pstwo (80%??? :laughing: )

I believe the issue has changed quite a bit in recent times.  Years ago, graphics didnt matter at all it was 100% about the gameplay and the images on the screen merely had to be there (or you could have just played Dn\'D board games).  However, once polygons became more widely used (i.e. after the 16 bit era) it came to the point where the console industry became more focused on casual gamers who might be impressed or conned into buying a game by the promise of sweet graphics, many developers got lazy trying to cash in on this market, many games became worse, with probably about 5 - 10% of them worth purchase (rough estimate).  Now that graphics have gotten to the point where i dont care anymore, they should focus on gameplay.

I think that framerate is the more important issue nowadays.  I would much rather play Twisted Metal: Black at its non-stop 60fps thrill ride, than some suped up version with a 30fps (Halo?  :p j/k)  At that point, graphics do effect the gameplay, and how much enjoyment you can get out of the game.

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IMO graphics is eveything at lest 80%. I just can\'t stand playing a game that really looks bad and have great gameplay. If I wanted real gameplay, I would play RPGs games. But I don\'t buy or like any RPG games. It\'s just not my speed and adventures taste. IMO, eveyone buys a new systems for the up-grade in graphics. If graphics means nothing to me I would just be still playing my PSone.


you just spouted out a round-about circle of bull****.  Graphics are 80%??  no wonder your the only person who likes wreckless.  We play the games, we dont just sit there looking at them.  Why dont you go buy Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within... i hear you can click on the DVD a few times and select which scene you wanna watch..now thats gameplay :rolleyes:.

When a new console is released there are more than just cosmetic upgrades that take place in a game, AI, Physics etc. can all be improved.  Some games could not be achieved on PSX (and especially lower down systems) no matter how badly the graphics looked.  Your a complete waste of times at these forums if your only playing games for 80% graphics...

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Graphics and Gameplay are 50/50.

Just like women. Personality is a must, but if they aren\'t attractive, sadly, I\'m not interested. Personality can go a long way to improve attractiveness, but like good gameplay, it can only do so much. This may seem shallow, but if there is no attraction, what\'s left? By the same token, a complete knockout is thrilling for a while, but if there\'s nothing else about her that is desireable, I don\'t hang on long.


god damn you watchdog!  i was saving the attractive woman analogy for when some real debate sparked up!  and the way i put it was better!  :p

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BS!!! Then why don\'t you go play your SNES or Atari. If what you said were really true then we would still be playing with our SEGA Geneses and stuck in the 16-bit era.


I cant speak for everyone else, but i know i will enjoy FF6 (havent finished it) much more than i will FFX.. as good as FFX is chances are...its just not the superior game.

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Graphics are extremely important, granite the game that a company’s them must be good as well, and other wise it\'s just eye candy. The more realistic the graphics are the more involved we get into the game, especially if it\'s a really well made one.


booyah, see point above, i bet ill be more involved in FF6 over FFX despite the fact that FF6 has no animations, and is quite tacky by today\'s standards.. then again.. i might now  :D  

and FF7 was greater than all of them!  :p

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LOL!! 5 years, developers will change their focus from graphics back to gameplay? When hell freezes over this will happen. IMO, graphics will just get better and better. Do you think the PS3 will have bad graphics and great gameplay?


that wasnt the point he was trying to make..moron...

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I love graphics

love discussing them, and being educated on how they work technolgy wise.

Arguing over what machine is superior is worthless cause most of us know where each console has strengths and weaknesses

but Graphics are only one of the A\'s in AAA


Have a groovy day


at least Ddaryl got the point of the thread  :p

Now, thanks everyone for finally sparking some discussion in here, even though the debate has shifted over to grapgics vs. gameplay (like i didnt see it coming)..the mere fact that you are all participating in the thread basically says that they are a fun issue to discuss... take THAT unnamed gamer!  :D;)

Offline IronFist
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Graphics.. worth discussing?
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2002, 06:22:17 PM »
You shoud be happy this turned into a debate.  Discussions fall to the bottom of the forum rather quickly, but debates usually last for 5 or 6 pages before they get locked. :)
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Offline Bozco
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Graphics.. worth discussing?
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2002, 07:27:57 PM »
All I have to say is if you think graphics is more important than gameplay you should be dragged 10 miles by a car in a rally race;)

Offline pstwo
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Graphics.. worth discussing?
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2002, 07:33:48 PM »
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Originally posted by Bozco
All I have to say is if you think graphics is more important than gameplay you should be dragged 10 miles by a car in a rally race;)



Bob, everyone seems to be posting intelligent replies but what about this.  :laughing:
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Offline Bozco
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Graphics.. worth discussing?
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2002, 07:48:32 PM »
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Originally posted by pstwo



Bob, everyone seems to be posting intelligent replies but what about this.  :laughing:



Its the most intelligent thing said today:p , 80% bahhhhh

 

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