RalliSport Challenge review!!1

i think GTA3 has great graphics

its the details that get me  like newspapers blowing in the wind, or the smoke from an engine, or the way my guy reaches out and slams the drivers side door shut when its swaying open

last night, i got to the "kill salvatore" mission
it was the single most coolest moment in my gaming history

raced over to portland within 4 minutes
lined up two blocks away in an alley with the sniper rifle
salvatore leaving the club surrounded by his thugs
load up the sniper rifle, zoom in
one shot, salvatore takes the bullet to the head, his lifeblood squirting into the air
the thugs go nuts running around, while i simply walk away and proceed to carjack a taxi

sorry for going a little off topic, but man i love this game

[Bobs_Hardware]

Originally posted by mm
i think GTA3 has great graphics

its the details that get me  like newspapers blowing in the wind, or the smoke from an engine, or the way my guy reaches out and slams the drivers side door shut when its swaying open

graphics may be purty, and a nice artistic quality.. but at 30 frames per second (approximately) it doesnt cut it

thats the same reason why i dont consider Halo the graphical masterpiece many XBox zealots do..

Originally posted by mm
last night, i got to the "kill salvatore" mission
it was the single most coolest moment in my gaming history

raced over to portland within 4 minutes
lined up two blocks away in an alley with the sniper rifle
salvatore leaving the club surrounded by his thugs
load up the sniper rifle, zoom in
one shot, salvatore takes the bullet to the head, his lifeblood squirting into the air
the thugs go nuts running around, while i simply walk away and proceed to carjack a taxi

sorry for going a little off topic, but man i love this game

god damn you yanks way overrate this game    that was pretty fun, i did the same thing, only about 50 yards away from him    but it wasnt THAT cool... its not like i sit there "ohhh man, this is so awesome" like i did during FF7 and frankly.. i dont see why anyone else does.. its a fun game.. but by no means a masterpiece.  Maybe if the actual system for shooting was as smooth as Syphone Filter\'s or something.. but its too buggy to make the missions like when you invade the boat all that fun..

saying a little thing like driving there in four minutes.. waiting for him to come out and popping him off is the greatest moment in gaming history is a bit of an exageration dont you think??  

all my opinion of course.. dunno why i got so worked up..

yes, perhaps its cause violence appeals to me a great deal

racing across that bridge and making it to the club in the time allowed and getting a head shot off in one kill was VERY intense and satisfying for me

i have no problems with GTA3\'s shooting system, and in fact i think it works quite well.  especially for doing drive by\'s

the "invade the boat" mission was fantastic
get a high shooting spot and tag the enemy before they can shoot 8-ball.  classic.

the moments in FF7 were comparible to watching a great movie.  you watch the plot lay out, but you dont actually do anything

[BizioEE]

uhh..? trying to outdo XBox in graphics? who is? no one is.. take a look at the games m8.. the games with the best graphics are also the games with the best gameplay..

FFX, J&D, MGS2 and more.GTA3 doesnt have graphics that compare with XBox.. and was never intended to.. in fact, only J&D out of those games was ever built up by the developers to challenge XBox games, and it does that successfully.. the game isnt too short, in fact, IMO its the best platformer ever..

Maybe J&D is not so short,but it\'s too easy,I\'ve finished it in 3 days...
ND spent a lot of time and resources in the graphics department and made a good platform,but not the jewel people were waiting for!
The game-play is old,no fresh and unique elements...nothing new! It\'s like playing Mario 64 with "Crash style",copying some stuff from other games with bigger environments! It\'s the best platform ever ? Not so sure...and...which rivals should have J&D ? RayMan2,Klonoa and Sonic...and? The games are not self-made,it needs time,a lot of time,and we should wait a little more(XBox and GC) before speaking about "the best platform ever",it should have more sense...

what the hell?? you just made the EXACT same excuse that PS2 fanboys have been making for ages, then told us not to put XBox and PS2 on the same level when it comes to complaining about it..

"Wait until developers figure it out"

silly man  

I said:"don\'t put XBox and PS2 on the same level when some guys speak or complain about jaggies!"  ...there\'s no comparison about "jaggies" in DOA3 vs JAGGIES in VF4,for example...but again...at first,PS2 fans,me included,said "almost" the same about PS2"Wait until developers figure it out"...but I had not a clue what I was speaking about...I was one of the hottest PS2 fanboys in my first 300 posts:)...the NV2a has built-in FSAA and you have not to figure out the way to implement it,but "only" to optimize and minimize the use of memory,in a word,dev has to understand UMA!
PS2 has to do FSAA via software,so not only you use up memory-bandwidth but you have a hit in the CPU performance...overall,a lot more problems...
...I\'ll do a research about it if you want...I think I\'ll do it...


Bobs:) ...these are not excuses...it\'s how software and tools work...

At first,when Sega fanboys bashed PS2 for the fact that launch games pushed 2,3,4 mpps...most PS2 fans said "wait and see"...2nd and 3rd gen games will push more polys,once dev understand how to use properly the V units...right? and what is happened? J&D is pushing 10-13 mpps...dev find new tricks,new ways of doing things and they try,year after year to optimize everything...
And all this will happen to the XBox too,PS2 is not exclusive to this(though it uses a new architecture)

Exactly like current PS2 games push 3 times the number of polys than Launch games...you\'ll see XBox games running at 60 fps with a huge number of polys,beautiful textures,lighting,shading,FSAA and more...it\'s how development works dear Bob  

Here\'s some IGN movies of Rallisport.  

http://xboxmedia.ign.com/media/previews/video/rallisport/ralli2.mov
http://xboxmovies.ign.com/xbox/video/rallisport_02-22-02_01.mov
http://xboxmovies.ign.com/xbox/video/rallisport_02-22-02_04.mov
http://xboxmovies.ign.com/xbox/video/rallisport_02-22-02_05.mov

Honestly I think people are just trying to find reasons to not like this game, because they dont own an xbox. Jaggies? Give me a break. I own a ps2 and GT3(Great game) and I also own an xbox, and I will be getting this game.

Its a good game, and has awsome graphics, why can\'t you just accept that?

[Bobs_Hardware]

Originally posted by BizioEE


I said:"don\'t put XBox and PS2 on the same level when some guys speak or complain about jaggies!"  ...there\'s no comparison about "jaggies" in DOA3 vs JAGGIES in VF4,for example...but again...at first,PS2 fans,me included,said "almost" the same about PS2"Wait until developers figure it out"...but I had not a clue what I was speaking about...I was one of the hottest PS2 fanboys in my first 300 posts...the NV2a has built-in FSAA and you have not to figure out the way to implement it,but "only" to optimize and minimize the use of memory,in a word,dev has to understand UMA!
PS2 has to do FSAA via software,so not only you use up memory-bandwidth but you have a hit in the CPU performance...overall,a lot more problems...
...I\'ll do a research about it if you want...I think I\'ll do it...


Bobs:) ...these are not excuses...it\'s how software and tools work...

At first,when Sega fanboys bashed PS2 for the fact that launch games pushed 2,3,4 mpps...most PS2 fans said "wait and see"...2nd and 3rd gen games will push more polys,once dev understand how to use properly the V units...right? and what is happened? J&D is pushing 10-13 mpps...dev find new tricks,new ways of doing things and they try,year after year to optimize everything...
And all this will happen to the XBox too,PS2 is not exclusive to this(though it uses a new architecture)

Exactly like current PS2 games push 3 times the number of polys than Launch games...you\'ll see XBox games running at 60 fps with a huge number of polys,beautiful textures,lighting,shading,FSAA and more...it\'s how development works dear Bob  

Thanks for filling me in on the ways of the industry, before now i was completely oblivious    Fact still remains (and you have done a lot of debating about this recently i think) that while XBox development can be optimised from the launch games, PS2 games had a radical improvement.  To the point where graphically the consoles can be compared.  Sure XBox will improve and most likely get away from PS2 in the graphical area, but who cares??  I preferred talking about the fact that VRally looks better    

thats enough  

Originally posted by pablo32:
Its a good game, and has awsome graphics, why can\'t you just accept that?

nono.. why cant you accept it??

GTA3=teh suk!!!1!!

I\'m beginning to think by reading some of these posts that some of you are trying to nit pick at every detail in this game to find overall fault. Come on now...if it\'s good it\'s good whether it\'s on ps2, xbox, or Gamecube.

[BizioEE]

I preferred talking about the fact that VRally looks better

I don\'t judge or make comparison looking at pics...have you seen VRally on TV? However,if you like to judge games looking at pics,I\'d have to say that VRally,though it\'s impressive,have no detailed textures compared to Rallysport...

I wanna wait to compare them on my TV,to see how the first rally game on the XBox compare to a 3rd gen PS2 game

Fact still remains (and you have done a lot of debating about this recently i think) that while XBox development can be optimised from the launch games, PS2 games had a radical improvement.

You\'re right,PS2 games had a radical improvement from Launch...but now it\'s a 2 year old console and I formed the idea that XBox,from now on,will show bigger improvements...

If PS2 and XBox were been released,hypothetically,at the same time,you\'d have seen bigger improvements on PS2 games during 2,3,4,5 gen of games,it\'s obvious...but PS2,as you know,is a 2 years old machine and developers are using a lot of power right now!

Optimizations don\'t necessarily mean "little improvements"...some talented dev have said that XBox has a lot of untapped power...and even if we understand nothing about tech,using a bit of commonsense we should realize that each console has BIG improvements from the beginning to the end of its life...
Look at Jumping-Flash and Spyro3...and PSX was the simplest piece of hardware among the other rivals...
...and look at Dreamcast...do you remember the first video of Sega Rally 2,it looked like a PC game of 1998...and now look at the best DC games,and try to imagine if this console were been supported massively for other 2,3 years...
...and...were PSX and DC new and/or difficult and complex architectures? no...and XBox is more complex than both mentioned consoles...

What is says on "Tapping into the power of PS2"

GS Effects :
Anti-aliasing
•Hardware edge anti-aliasing.
–Requires sorted polygons but looks excellent.

•Full screen anti-aliasing
–Render to large draw buffer then use bi-linear filter to blend pixels smoothly.
–Render 4x with 25% alpha and 1/2pixel offset in 4 directions. Same effect without the VRAM hit

"GS Effects : Interlace blending

•Odd and Even lines are drawn alternately.
•Any image not drawn on both lines flickers.
•Scan-line blending solves the problem.
•Techniques to fix this
–GS blend circuits with interlaced buffers(free)
–Motion blur % of previous field(low VRAM)
–Shrink full height to display height with bilinear"

I\'d much rather blame SEGA for the jaggies than PS2.
Mind Tekken 4 has a very clean image...

[BizioEE]

fastson,you know how hard I fought against fanboys calling PS2 the jaggy-console,and I know that there\'re alternative ways to reduce jaggies,and some should be almost free...but I\'m wondering...why VF4 has all those jaggies?

I\'m open-minded...I wanna only understand...what scared me is that...even if PS2 were able to do perfect AA,how the hell Sony made a so complex and difficult piece of hardware which requires years and years only to implement great AA? or bump-mapping,etc...I\'d like to see dev focusing a lot more on game-play and length of games...instead of wasting resources to implement AA,bump-mapping and all the other effects GC and XBox do via hardware...it\'s my opinion...

The idea of freedom and flexibility is great,but if you exasperate it you run the risk of turning upside down...
It\'s cool the freedom to choose and share how much power I\'ll use for graphics,physics,animations,sound,and the EE is truly an innovative solution,but if you exasperate this idea,you force developers to waste too much time and resources to "unimportant" things for the game in itself(Good textures,AA,bump,etc),moving away their attention,time and resources from the most important things --->game-play,innovation,length and replay-value...

VF4 has all of those jaggies because using AA in the game would have forced Sega to make sacrifices. I think it was already said a while ago, PS2 can do AA quite well, it just takes quite a performance hit doing so. I guess we can all assume that Sega didn\'t think VF4 needed AA.

fastson,you know how hard I fought against fanboys calling PS2 the jaggy-console,and I know that there\'re alternative ways to reduce jaggies,and some should be almost free...but I\'m wondering...why VF4 has all those jaggies?

Yes I know how hard you fought..
Its up to the developer to implant AA/FSAA. Tekken Tag has AA, BGDA has 2x FSAA, Outcast 2 will have FSAA.. Its up to the developer!
Same thing on Xbox.
Not ALL Xbox games has AA or FSAA even though the Xbox has support for it!

I\'m open-minded...I wanna only understand...what scared me is that...even if PS2 were able to do perfect AA,how the hell Sony made a so complex and difficult piece of hardware which requires years and years only to implement great AA? or bump-mapping,etc...I\'d like to see dev focusing a lot more on game-play and length of games...instead of wasting resources to implement AA,bump-mapping and all the other effects GC and XBox do via hardware...it\'s my opinion...

Then good thing we have Hideo Kojima. He has always said Gameplay comes before Graphics.
Infact the graphics of MGS2 (believe it or not) was prioritized after Story and Gameplay.
We have the SCEI team who made ICO, a very innovative game.
You see it is NOT impossible to get graphics out of the PS2 even though you\'re not prioritizing graphics. (MGS2 and ICO are two of the best looking games on PS2 IMO.. And both focused on gameplay!!:eek: )

Now when Sony has released PA2 and VectorC (they were released early this year) it will be alot easier to get both from both worlds.

The idea of freedom and flexibility is great,but if you exasperate it you run the risk of turning upside down...
It\'s cool the freedom to choose and share how much power I\'ll use for graphics,physics,animations,sound,and the EE is truly an innovative solution,but if you exasperate this idea,you force developers to waste too much time and resources to "unimportant" things for the game in itself(Good textures,AA,bump,etc),moving away their attention,time and resources from the most important things --->game-play,innovation,length and replay-value...

Leave the hardware to the developers BizioEE. Play the games like me. Dont worry about the hardware.

Do that and everything will be fine.. Trust me.  :fro:

(Dammit mailman where are you? I want my MGS2 sometime this year!!:evil: )

Btw, the Arcade version of VF4 has jaggies.

[BizioEE]

I\'ll take your advice fastson  ...and I hope you\'ll take mine...open your mind a little more!:)