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Author Topic: XBOX or PS2  (Read 4619 times)

Offline GigaShadow
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XBOX or PS2
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2002, 01:11:13 PM »
No matter what you say seven, the Xbox HD is a feature most PS2 owners want also.  Personally its the best idea any console manufacturer has come up with for this generation of consoles.  Why do you think the PS2 is coming out with an HD?  

As Microsoft has said before they built the console with everything so you wouldn\'t need to go out and buy it later.  With the exception of the DVD remote :rolleyes:

As for the graphics, the PS2 has been out 2 years and developers have had plenty of time to tweak their games to take advantage of the hardware in the PS2.  The Xbox hasn\'t even been out a year and you are already slamming it for having graphics on par with the PS2.  Give it time, the first generation PS2 games weren\'t that much better than the Dreamcast games...

Going back to the memory cards...  They aren\'t so bad, but for $40 a pop I could pretty much buy another game.  Not to mention I haven\'t seen a PS2 card on a store shelf in quite some time.  The HD allows all the saves you want and that is just the beginning...
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Offline Mr. Kennedy
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« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2002, 01:15:06 PM »
I\'m seeing some hostility come out of members such as Watchdog, and BizioEE...

looks like somebody has a case of the Mondays...
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Offline Damien8086
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« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2002, 01:21:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by seven


Secondly, you missed my point completely. I was being SARCASTIC - hence the ":rolleyes:" at the end of my post. Good job once again Watchdog.

The $30 dollars for the PS2 remote btw IS NOT necessary and only gives you a bit more of that "nice to have". On the Xbox however, you don\'t have a choice. The HDD Linuxkit is not that expensive if you come to think of what\'s included. And I wasn\'t on about it being supported by the devs for games, but to point out that you will have a Linux running on it and able to create (if your skill permits it) DC like games. But anyway, no need to debate about this, my post was nothing other than sarcasm anyway - just to show how "great" this guys points was - and you do a great job of ignoring his, but jumping on me for mine.

To be more precice about his post: how many games support HDTV? Harddrive just because it\'s cheaper than a memory card? boy, if moneys is all this guy is worried about, I don\'t get how he can afford 32 games, a PS2, Xbox and then ***** around money for a memorycard. Do I need to go on?


I was making points as to why I prefer the XBox. I think very good points.

The HDTV support is built into the XBox. Game developers can create games to take advantage of this. Maybe not many developers Today take advantage of this, but they will one day soon and as an HDTV owner that is rather exciting. My whole point about this was that XBox is looking ahead moreso in my opinion then PS2.

As far as the hard drive goes, not having to spend $40 on a memory card is a very nice perk. That $40 can be put towards a game or something else. Also, most PS2 owners quickly find themselves needing more then 1 PS2 memory card. XBox owners dont have this problem.

Also, you cannot say that PS2 has equivalent graphical capabilities as XBox because the hardware speaks for itself. XBox\'s GPU runs at 233mhz whereas PS2\'s runs at 147mhz. Maybe the XBox games are not presently taking complete advantage of the XBox\'s hardware, but I am sure they will soon. Afterall, XBox just came out late last year.

Also, about the Linux PS2 kit which sells for $199. What a waste of money. You do realize of course that this kit will not feature most of the PS2 development SDK? Also, you realize that you need a lot more than a development kit to develop games that will look anything like the ones you buy in a store. The "real" PS2 development SDK costs thousands of dollars.

I dont get the sarcasm or the need for it? I think my points were valid.

It\'s really the little things that count. Like this past weekend I had to spend $5 for an extension cord for my PS2 controller because it couldn\'t reach my sofa from where my PS2 is setup. With my XBox, I dont need any extension wires because the controllers already have very long cords. Sure it is only $5, but it\'s just one of many little things that has me preferring my XBox.

Offline Damien8086
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« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2002, 01:37:13 PM »
Here are a couple more perks about XBox...

- XBox\'s sound card features 256 voices whereas PS2 only features 64. This means XBox\'s games can be programmed to have superior sound quality.

- XBox\'s games can be programmed to support Dolby Digital 5.1. PS2 only supports Dolby Digital 5.1 in DVD movie\'s and FMV sequences, not in gameplay. If you have a surround sound system then this is a really nice feature.

- Even after PS2\'s Hard Drive comes out, developers will be slow to create games to support it simply because it is an expensive add-on. XBox\'s hard drive is built in so XBox developers will be more willing to create games to take advantage of the hard drive because they know every XBox owner has the built in hard drive.

Like I said earlier, I have a PS2 and I love it, but the XBox has a lot going for it as well. It is really just a personal choice.

Offline GigaShadow
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« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2002, 01:43:15 PM »
Good points Damien except for comparing speeds of processors.  The PS2 and the Xbox have completely different architecture so comparing the speeds, whether GPU or CPU is sort of like mixing apples and oranges.  

Frankly I don\'t think we have seen the best the PS2 has to offer visually speaking and we definitely haven\'t seen the best the Xbox has to offer.  

That being said, its great for us gamers.  I like having both systems that way when I read EGM I can actually enjoy 2/3 of the reviews - GBA doesn\'t count :rolleyes:
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Offline BizioEE

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« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2002, 02:00:45 PM »
Quote
Fristly, I am not kidding myself. I have played the Xbox enough to judge it on what I\'ve played so far and the graphics are NOT better. This is my opinion, can\'t beat that.


I\'ve played both PS2 and DC and the graphics of PS2 are not better. This is my opinion,can\'t beat that. :rolleyes: ...:)
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Offline seven
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« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2002, 02:06:25 PM »
Ohmigod, here we go again...

Quote
The HDTV support is built into the XBox. Game developers can create games to take advantage of this. Maybe not many developers Today take advantage of this, but they will one day soon and as an HDTV owner that is rather exciting. My whole point about this was that XBox is looking ahead moreso in my opinion then PS2.


IMHO, this HDTV support is a joke. PS2 supports it too (however no games at the time) - and up to my knowledge, DoA3 is one of the only games that really makes good use of HDTV support. What other games do you know of that take advantage of it? Just name me a few, or is it just another feature that you\'re proud of but isn\'t really there?

Quote
As far as the hard drive goes, not having to spend $40 on a memory card is a very nice perk. That $40 can be put towards a game or something else. Also, most PS2 owners quickly find themselves needing more then 1 PS2 memory card. XBox owners dont have this problem.


If this is your arguement, then I would rather buy a cheaper PS2 and use the rest of my cash towards game, rather than a system that is more expensive.

Quote
Also, you cannot say that PS2 has equivalent graphical capabilities as XBox because the hardware speaks for itself. XBox\'s GPU runs at 233mhz whereas PS2\'s runs at 147mhz. Maybe the XBox games are not presently taking complete advantage of the XBox\'s hardware, but I am sure they will soon. Afterall, XBox just came out late last year.


The fact that you try to impress me with the better numbers (that Xbox admitedly has), just shows how little you know about specs and performance. Or should I be impressed that the Pentium is clocked at 733 MHz compared to the slow and underwhelming 300 MHz of the EE? You should be ashamed of yourself. I can very well say what I want, since I have seen and played both systems. I judge the graphics on what I see on my television - not on the spec sheet like you.

Quote
Also, about the Linux PS2 kit which sells for $199. What a waste of money. You do realize of course that this kit will not feature most of the PS2 development SDK? Also, you realize that you need a lot more than a development kit to develop games that will look anything like the ones you buy in a store. The "real" PS2 development SDK costs thousands of dollars.


That\'s not true. The PS2 is a very powerful hardware and gives you a lot of freedom by being able to directly access the main hardware components. Again shows how little you really know. The Ps2 can indeed compile it\'s own code very well and has the potential to deliever Dreamcast style graphics. You should do a little more research. ;)

Quote
- XBox\'s sound card features 256 voices whereas PS2 only features 64. This means XBox\'s games can be programmed to have superior sound quality.


Wow, do you hear a difference?

Quote
- XBox\'s games can be programmed to support Dolby Digital 5.1. PS2 only supports Dolby Digital 5.1 in DVD movie\'s and FMV sequences, not in gameplay. If you have a surround sound system then this is a really nice feature.


Funny, you don\'t seem to be on track to well what news is concern. Maybe my own dolby digital receiver is bull****ing me with my 5.1 channel sound while playing (ingame) some of the latest EA games... :rolleyes: Oh wait, now how is that possible?

Quote
- Even after PS2\'s Hard Drive comes out, developers will be slow to create games to support it simply because it is an expensive add-on. XBox\'s hard drive is built in so XBox developers will be more willing to create games to take advantage of the hard drive because they know every XBox owner has the built in hard drive.


What advantages? Please tell me a few, I am really interested. ;)

Quote
I dont get the sarcasm or the need for it? I think my points were valid.


What I really find laughable about your opinion, is that you point out things that you see in the spec sheet but don\'t find it on your tv. What use are those 256 voices if you don\'t even hear a difference to those 64 of the PS2? You also try to make a point about the graphics (or the potential) by just posting spec numbers - which mean absolutely nothing btw. Seems to me, you are more excited about the great spec sheet Microsoft posted instead of the system itself - or why else would you always refer to the specifications?

Offline BizioEE

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« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2002, 02:18:39 PM »
seven,you know XBox is a better piece of hardware because PS2 is a 2 year old console...so...enjoy the huge quantity and variety of games and leave this argument...

It\'s how technology works...XBox>GC>PS2>DC>N64>PSX and Saturn...overall...
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Offline seven
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« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2002, 02:26:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BizioEE
seven,you know XBox is a better piece of hardware because PS2 is a 2 year old console...so...enjoy the huge quantity and variety of games and leave this argument...

It\'s how technology works...XBox>GC>PS2>DC>N64>PSX and Saturn...overall...


That\'s not true Bizio and you know it. Prime example is indeed the PSX which launched before N64 and yet, still had its advantages. The N64\'s hardware might have supported more technigues to make graphics more clean, but the PSX was still able to outperform the N64 where perspective transformation (in other words, polygon performance) is concern. Saturn was probably better than both PSX and N64 - the developers just couldn\'t deal with it at the time. This fact just proves how much bull**** your theory really is.

Just because it\'s newer, doesn\'t mean it\'s better.

Offline Damien8086
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« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2002, 02:35:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by seven
Ohmigod, here we go again...



What I really find laughable about your opinion, is that you point out things that you see in the spec sheet but don\'t find it on your tv. What use are those 256 voices if you don\'t even hear a difference to those 64 of the PS2? You also try to make a point about the graphics (or the potential) by just posting spec numbers - which mean absolutely nothing btw. Seems to me, you are more excited about the great spec sheet Microsoft posted instead of the system itself - or why else would you always refer to the specifications?



- Who cares if not many games AT THIS MOMENT support HDTV. The point is that it is there and if developers want to, they can take advantage of it and being an HDTV owner, the possibility of games supporting HDTV is exciting.

- The cost of the PS2 when you add in memory cards that you have already bought for it and the future HDD which you will most likely buy is more then the XBox.

- The XBox has only been out since late last year and already the graphics are on par with PS2, a system that has been out for two years. That, in my opinion, is impressive. The point of the numbers was to back my opinions up with facts. I thought that was obvious.

- As for the Linux kit. Waste your $200 on it. I dont care. But dont complain when you are unable to make anything worth 5 minutes of your game time.

- As far as sound goes. Facts are facts. 256 voices will always sound better then 64. PS2 DOES NOT support Dolby Digital 5.1 during gameplay. XBox does.

- Hard drive advantages? Do you really have to ask? How about the ability to download current rosters for your sports games? How about the ability to load your own music into games? 2 advantages of having a hard drive right there. An advantage to a built in hard drive is just what I said previously - Developers know that every XBox console owner has the hard drive and they will be more willing to program games that use it, whereas developers for PS2 will be less likely to program games to use the PS2 hard drive because it is a very costly add on, not a built in component of the actual console.

- Lastly, you can laugh at my opinions all you want. It doesn\'t really matter to me one way or the other. Its always nice to know the maturity level of those you discuss with. I point out the specs because the specs show that the XBox hardware is more limitless then the PS2\'s hardware. I doubt you could find even a PS2 engineer who would disagree with that.

Offline BizioEE

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« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2002, 02:44:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by seven


That\'s not true Bizio and you know it. Prime example is indeed the PSX which launched before N64 and yet, still had its advantages. The N64\'s hardware might have supported more technigues to make graphics more clean, but the PSX was still able to outperform the N64 where perspective transformation (in other words, polygon performance) is concern. Saturn was probably better than both PSX and N64 - the developers just couldn\'t deal with it at the time. This fact just proves how much bull**** your theory really is.

Just because it\'s newer, doesn\'t mean it\'s better.


Nope:)

XBox>GC>PS2 overall...for example...RL for GC push 12 mpps with 5-8 textures for poly...at Launch!
If you look at both GC and XBox launch games...you notice a better quality of the images...it\'s evident...there\'s nothing to argue...these new hardwares can do better graphics...
He has the power of both worlds
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AND IT\'S PERSONAL
Demon: No… the legendary Sparda!?
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Offline seven
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« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2002, 02:54:46 PM »
Quote
- Who cares if not many games AT THIS MOMENT support HDTV. The point is that it is there and if developers want to, they can take advantage of it and being an HDTV owner, the possibility of games supporting HDTV is exciting.


Oh okay, well since PS2 supports it too - can\'t wait for that feature. I mean, hell yeah lucky me! Games now don\'t support it, but well, maybe in a few years every game will have it!! :rolleyes:
I\'d rather see that performance for HDTV support go into better graphics.

Quote
- The cost of the PS2 when you add in memory cards that you have already bought for it and the future HDD which you will most likely buy is more then the XBox.


Further down in your post, you said why most people (refering to the "casual gamer") won\'t buy a HDD - so why include it in the price? As I said above, you won\'t need to buy a HDD so don\'t add it. Fact is, PS2 + memory card is less expensive than a Xbox. Plain and simple.

Quote
- The XBox has only been out since late last year and already the graphics are on par with PS2, a system that has been out for two years. That, in my opinion, is impressive. The point of the numbers was to back my opinions up with facts. I thought that was obvious.


Let me tell what I\'m impressed with. That a system that is in fact 2 years older can compete with a system that supposedly is 3 to 5x more powerful (Tecmo and Microsoft speak) and has graphics that are up to par. A system that not only is supposedly more powerful, but should also be a dream to program for since it uses DirectX and PC components which is already well known.

Quote
- As for the Linux kit. Waste your $200 on it. I dont care. But dont complain when you are unable to make anything worth 5 minutes of your game time.


I\'ll let you know. ;)

Quote
- As far as sound goes. Facts are facts. 256 voices will always sound better then 64. PS2 DOES NOT support Dolby Digital 5.1 during gameplay. XBox does.


so you are still totally unaware of the fact that there are games out for PS2 right this moment that do infact support DTS surround 5.1 during gameplay? You really are a funny one.

Quote
- Hard drive advantages? Do you really have to ask? How about the ability to download current rosters for your sports games? How about the ability to load your own music into games? 2 advantages of having a hard drive right there. An advantage to a built in hard drive is just what I said previously - Developers know that every XBox console owner has the hard drive and they will be more willing to program games that use it, whereas developers for PS2 will be less likely to program games to use the PS2 hard drive because it is a very costly add on, not a built in component of the actual console.


Well I can live with out that. I also wonder how much of those advantages really are necessary and how many people will make use of them? Downloading music? Sounds good, but I can do the same with a mixer and my hifi system -> with better quality and it\'s cheaper. I\'ll give you the updates and such for games (expandable cars etc), but I wonder how many games will utilize this. We\'ll see.

Quote
- Lastly, you can laugh at my opinions all you want. It doesn\'t really matter to me one way or the other. Its always nice to know the maturity level of those you discuss with. I point out the specs because the specs show that the XBox hardware is more limitless then the PS2\'s hardware. I doubt you could find even a PS2 engineer who would disagree with that.


As I already tried to point out: your specs prove nothing at all.  Thank gods todays game developers aren\'t that stupid. Nice try though.. have any other arguements?

Offline seven
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« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2002, 02:59:18 PM »
Quote
Nope

XBox>GC>PS2 overall...for example...RL for GC push 12 mpps with 5-8 textures for poly...at Launch!
If you look at both GC and XBox launch games...you notice a better quality of the images...it\'s evident...there\'s nothing to argue...these new hardwares can do better graphics...


Oh and another one who seems to enjoy graphics based upon specs. I really wonder how you play your games Bizio... do you count the polygons during gameplay?

And please, if you already can\'t answer my reply - just admit defeat or give it up. I can go on for hours like this.

Offline BizioEE

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« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2002, 02:59:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Damien8086



- Who cares if not many games AT THIS MOMENT support HDTV. The point is that it is there and if developers want to, they can take advantage of it and being an HDTV owner, the possibility of games supporting HDTV is exciting.

- The cost of the PS2 when you add in memory cards that you have already bought for it and the future HDD which you will most likely buy is more then the XBox.

- The XBox has only been out since late last year and already the graphics are on par with PS2, a system that has been out for two years. That, in my opinion, is impressive. The point of the numbers was to back my opinions up with facts. I thought that was obvious.

- As for the Linux kit. Waste your $200 on it. I dont care. But dont complain when you are unable to make anything worth 5 minutes of your game time.

- As far as sound goes. Facts are facts. 256 voices will always sound better then 64. PS2 DOES NOT support Dolby Digital 5.1 during gameplay. XBox does.

- Hard drive advantages? Do you really have to ask? How about the ability to download current rosters for your sports games? How about the ability to load your own music into games? 2 advantages of having a hard drive right there. An advantage to a built in hard drive is just what I said previously - Developers know that every XBox console owner has the hard drive and they will be more willing to program games that use it, whereas developers for PS2 will be less likely to program games to use the PS2 hard drive because it is a very costly add on, not a built in component of the actual console.

- Lastly, you can laugh at my opinions all you want. It doesn\'t really matter to me one way or the other. Its always nice to know the maturity level of those you discuss with. I point out the specs because the specs show that the XBox hardware is more limitless then the PS2\'s hardware. I doubt you could find even a PS2 engineer who would disagree with that.



Damien8086,XBox is a superior piece of hardware and everyone knows that...don\'t waste your time with seven! He\'ll never admit it  :)
He has the power of both worlds
Girl: What power… beyond my expectations?
AND IT\'S PERSONAL
Demon: No… the legendary Sparda!?
Dante: You\'re right, but I\'m his son Dante!

Offline BizioEE

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« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2002, 03:06:53 PM »
Quote
Let me tell what I\'m impressed with. That a system that is in fact 2 years older can compete with a system that supposedly is 3 to 5x more powerful (Tecmo and Microsoft speak) and has graphics that are up to par. A system that not only is supposedly more powerful, but should also be a dream to program for since it uses DirectX and PC components which is already well known.


XBox\'s quality of images is by far superior than PS2\'s one...and we\'re comparing Launch games with 2nd gen PS2 games...

...and about the 3-5x factor?  Have you seen the 15x factor when it comes to DC and PS2 ?

But you\'re impressed by PS2 and not by the XBox...:rolleyes:
« Last Edit: March 11, 2002, 03:09:05 PM by BizioEE »
He has the power of both worlds
Girl: What power… beyond my expectations?
AND IT\'S PERSONAL
Demon: No… the legendary Sparda!?
Dante: You\'re right, but I\'m his son Dante!

 

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