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Author Topic: I\'ve gotta stir up the religion pot again..this time  (Read 4510 times)

Offline luckee
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I\'ve gotta stir up the religion pot again..this time
« on: April 04, 2002, 07:41:24 PM »
it\'s on purpose and not accident.




    Here\'s what we need to debate:

    1) Christians think God is all powerful
    2) Christians think God loves every human on the face of the earth
    3) Christians think God wants to "save" us (whatever that means)
    4) Christians believe in hell, and view Satan as the landlord of this institution.
    5) Christians believe that if you "mess up," you\'re going to hell.
    6) Christians believe that Satan tries to lure otherwise good individuals into his "traps," taking said individual away from the "good" side.

    If this is the case, wouldn\'t that mean that Satan has a good deal of power over God? In fact, wouldn\'t it suggest that Satan is much more
    powerful than God? With the Christian line of logic, this seems the case to me... especially since there are more non-Christians in the
    world than there are Christians.

    I suggest that if the Christians would want to argue anything else... say, that Satan isn\'t as powerful as God, there would have to be more of
    "God\'s people" in the world than "Satan\'s people." I\'m one of Satan\'s people by their definition, as are the many other atheists, agnostics,
    Muslims, Jews, etc, etc, etc.

    Thoughts/Rebuttals/Flames/Agreements/Damnations? Bring \'em on :D
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Offline FatalXception
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I\'ve gotta stir up the religion pot again..this time
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2002, 08:00:34 PM »
Usually when you point out that since God gave us free will, we shouldn\'t be punished for making choices with the information in our world (ie, no miracles, no direct intervention from the Lord), christians reply that God is good, and wants us to make the right choices.  Problem I have with that is, if he was good, or even cared about our fate, he would have made the correct religeon/practices VERY clear.

Let me be VERY clear.  Not stone tablets, thousands of years ago.  Not speaking through a medium (be it Jesus, Mohammed, or Noah).  Not through writings based on human interpretation and storytelling.

No, \'God\' doesn\'t fit into any of the organized religeons, because of the simple fact that they almost all say that God loves us.  If he did love us, he wouldn\'t punish us for our free will mistakes - because you can\'t put someone in a maze, and punish them for taking the wrong passage, when all the passages are alike (well, you can\'t do that if you love the person).  If God were going to punish us (allow us to be punished), he would make sure we knew exactly what he wanted.  Example: Booming voice just before you commit murder, directly into your soul \'are you SURE you want to do that??\'
« Last Edit: April 04, 2002, 08:03:10 PM by FatalXception »
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Offline Solid Snake 88
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I\'ve gotta stir up the religion pot again..this time
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2002, 08:11:26 PM »
There are more Christians in the world than non-Christians.

Jews, Muslims = not satan\'s people.
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Offline ##RaCeR##
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I\'ve gotta stir up the religion pot again..this time
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2002, 08:11:40 PM »
God gave us a free will. He doesn\'t want to \'make\' us love him. Its our choice, whether we follow him, or follow darkness, its our choice.

As for Satan, well God created him. He is a fallen angel. He used to be a high ranking angel, but became jealous and tried to over power God. This of course, didn\'t work, so God banished him from Heaven. That is why Satan is trying to tempt people, to get as many people to go down with him as possible. He is a jealous person, and doesn\'t want other people to get what he missed out on.

And, once again, might I remind you, that Christianity is NOT a religion. It is a belief and a way of life. Religion is based purely on tradition and laws.

Yes, there a laws in Christianity, but once again, God gave us a free will, we can choose to follow them, or turn our backs. Its up to us.
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Offline SER
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I\'ve gotta stir up the religion pot again..this time
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2002, 10:07:21 PM »
Basically it\'s, try to live your life for God through his ways and teachings. It\'s not always easy to do, but then again we aren\'t perfect so we should just try our best. It\'s really up to you. If you want to have eternal life with no pain after this one, then choose God. If you want eternal torment, you can hang out with Satan in hell. Not rocket science guys. :)
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Offline theomen
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I\'ve gotta stir up the religion pot again..this time
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2002, 10:10:20 PM »
I hate luckee sooooo much....

rough estimate, i say this thread goes 250 posts.
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Offline THX
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I\'ve gotta stir up the religion pot again..this time
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2002, 10:30:02 PM »
hehe yea, what\'s the deal luckee.  Usually when a non-Christian posts something such as this it\'s because they are looking for answers.

Next time just visit your local church! :D  Or just come to mine.  I promise you no one will call you part of Satan\'s people.
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Offline luckee
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I\'ve gotta stir up the religion pot again..this time
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2002, 11:09:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by THX
hehe yea, what\'s the deal luckee.  Usually when a non-Christian posts something such as this it\'s because they are looking for answers.

Next time just visit your local church! :D  Or just come to mine.  I promise you no one will call you part of Satan\'s people.


who says Im a non-christian? I could be a christian loosing faith :)
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A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.-George Washington
Offline THX
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I\'ve gotta stir up the religion pot again..this time
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2002, 11:19:15 PM »
Quote
who says Im a non-christian? I could be a christian loosing faith

True, but if you\'re falling away from God guess who moved?
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Offline IronFist
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I\'ve gotta stir up the religion pot again..this time
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2002, 11:41:36 PM »
Woohoo. Another religion thread. :)

FatalXception:
Quote
Usually when you point out that since God gave us free will, we shouldn\'t be punished for making choices with the information in our world (ie, no miracles, no direct intervention from the Lord),

I agree, we shouldn\'t be punished for things that we don\'t know are right or wrong.  Like some cultures in Africa go around and kill people from different "tribes."  Will they be punished for murdur?  Of course not, because they don\'t know that murder is wrong.  But in our cases, we do know what is right and wrong (for the most part).  So we will be held accountable for the things that we knowingly do wrong.  We might not have visible miricles happening all the time; Jesus Christ isn\'t walking on the earth right now; We have not seen the many things talked about in the scriptures, etc.  But that is no excuse for going against what we know is right.

Quote
christians reply that God is good, and wants us to make the right choices. Problem I have with that is, if he was good, or even cared about our fate, he would have made the correct religeon/practices VERY clear.

He did make it clear, many many times.  But us, as the human race, have free agency (like many have already said).  It is our fault that everybody on this earth doesn\'t know his teachings.  We are the ones who chose to ignore, alter, and forget his teachings.

Quote
If God were going to punish us (allow us to be punished), he would make sure we knew exactly what he wanted. Example: Booming voice just before you commit murder, directly into your soul \'are you SURE you want to do that??\'

That would take away from our free agency.  Imagine if your dad was with you nomatter where you were, and he yelled at you every time you were about to do something wrong.  Would you call that being free?
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Offline cloud345
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I\'ve gotta stir up the religion pot again..this time
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2002, 04:01:25 AM »
I think God created the big bang then he created dinosaurs and he wanted to start over so he mad a big meteor that landed in mehico and then made apes because he knew that apes would one day evolve into humans!
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Offline CHIZZY

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I\'ve gotta stir up the religion pot again..this time
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2002, 05:28:03 AM »
I think if humans took all the time, money, and energy they waste on religion and spent it trying to actually help people (i.e. cure cancer, feed the starving) the world would be a much better place. Like in the middle east. If they all stopped fighting about God, they would realize they all live in a sh!thole.
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Offline CygnusXI
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I\'ve gotta stir up the religion pot again..this time
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2002, 05:47:55 AM »
luckee,

If your gonna comment and lambast Christianity, please inform yourself first. Arguing out of ignorance is getting you nowhere.

I didn\'t read any of the responses because I wanted to respond to you directly.

According to the Bible, which us Christians believe is the written word of God, Satan was given control of the 2 heavens. The 2 Heavens are Earth, and space.

So it\'s funny when people blame God when bad things happen, considering that Satan is in control/influence here. This was done by mans own arrogance in the garden of Eden when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit. You know, original sin.

At one point in the Bible (sorry I can\'t quote Chapter and Verse), Satan is talking to Jesus and tells him that if he bows down before him he will grant all this (as he spreads his hands out) to be his.

Since that point man has been destin to suffer, and evil has been allowed to come into mans hearts.

Sure, I guess you can blame God for "letting" Satan get this foothold on the world, but how else can God test us to see what side we\'re on??

In the book of Revelations which refers to the second coming of Jesus and the end of the world **as we know it**, it says that the Devil comes with wrath because he knows his time is short. He\'s had thousands of years to get as many souls as he could, but his "earthly" reign is nearly over.

Anyway, there\'s a little info on Cristian beliefs. If you want to make arguments in the future, try to educate yourself first on the topic you wish to debate.

Cyg.
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Offline videoholic

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I\'ve gotta stir up the religion pot again..this time
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2002, 06:26:58 AM »
Did noah build a bunch of cages for the animals?  I mean wouldn\'t the dinosaur eat the beavers?  I know I like to eat beaver.:thepimp:
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Offline Toxical
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I\'ve gotta stir up the religion pot again..this time
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2002, 10:45:06 AM »
Shhhhhhh go to confession, and confess your secrets, :rolleyes:

Fukk all religion, it is good for cavemen and the like, ... go live in the bush if you want religion :laughing:
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