The nVIDIA Cg Compiler works on Xbox:

in a nutshell

think of DMA (direct memory access)

devs can use this API to code directly to the GPU and bypass the CPU which is probably doing other more important things (like feeing insecure cause its only a celeron :P)

in theory this can lead to some VERY impressive feats, BUT as time has tested, devs have to take advantage of it, AND be willing to pay Nvidia\'s price to use it

nO-One:
Cg is an open source project. Any graphics firm can write own Cg to Asm compiler to it. so if Ati does support it, Cg Should do as good code as for Nvidia cards.


Cg sounds good for it is C for programming materials for surfaces and creation for complex vertex/pixel FX. Like ray-tracing, Ray-Marching, ray-casting, Global illumination, Realtime encoding and decoding of video... etc..
Cg will get full potential only after next gen GPU:s come out, becouse the limitations of current hardware. (ie. No IF/OR/ELSE... in calculations), but it is possible to write new stuff before the hardware is out and so to get games and apps to use new hardware even possibly before hardware is out to public.

I think Ati is quite pleased with it.. at least Ati and Nvidia show together some stuff at GDC. (DX9)

http://www.gdc-europe.com/conference/index.htm

and about support there is some companies that support it already.
http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?IO=cg_testimonials

ILM and Mental images  stand out from all those game devs..

:yawn:

From what Ive read on other forums (developers) this CG thingy isnt anything special..
It wont do much difference for Xbox cuz the shaders are so new.
You can say that CG is ahead of its time.. (we will see a difference on new:er hardware, maybe Xbox2)

CG wont do wonders on Xbox, it might even make things worse. (un-optimised code, slows system down)
The Shaders on Xbox are best coded in Assambler by hand.

We will see, dont hold your breath


EDIT: I guess you could say its a tool for lazy devs.. I dont think the bigger developers will make much use of it (on Xbox)

Yet another uninformed post by Fatson.  If you don\'t understand the technology, as you obviously do not, how can you make this assessment?

If devs use it, it will show.  Now that\'s a big if, but it\'s also the truth.

____
CG wont do wonders on Xbox, it might even make things worse. (un-optimised code, slows system down)
____


This line kills me.

[BizioEE]

Originally posted by Watchdog
Yet another uninformed post by Fatson.  If you don\'t understand the technology, as you obviously do not, how can you make this assessment?

If devs use it, it will show.  Now that\'s a big if, but it\'s also the truth.

____
CG wont do wonders on Xbox, it might even make things worse. (un-optimised code, slows system down)
____


This line kills me.

CG wont do wonders on Xbox, it might even make things worse. (un-optimised code, slows system down)

:eek: :eek:  ...I\'m wondering if the dev fasty can show us prof about it:laughing: ...

award for the funniest post of the day?

And I guess you two braniacs can proove him wrong?

All I\'m saying is that none of us are developers so perhaps we should just shaddap.

[Bobs_Hardware]

I\'m developing a nice pair of tits..

Yet another uninformed post by Fatson. If you don\'t understand the technology, as you obviously do not, how can you make this assessment?

Prove me wrong then..
What? Whats that I hear? Ooh.. You cant?

[BizioEE]

Originally posted by fastson


Prove me wrong then..
What? Whats that I hear? Ooh.. You cant?

fasty nobody can prove the other is wrong because WE ARE NOT DEVELOPERS!:) ...but it\'s funny when you say something like that:p

Originally posted by BizioEE


fasty nobody can prove the other is wrong because WE ARE NOT DEVELOPERS!:) ...but it\'s funny when you say something like that:p

Im not a developer..
Ive read what other developers has said about CG though..
Do you know what it does?

It works like VectorC on PS2.. Do you know what VectorC is?

Cg lets you make vertex and pixel shaders more easily. Its good for small developers (just like how VectorC on PS2 is good for small developers) who don’t have the knowledge or understanding of assembler (V/P-shaders are made in assembler).

The downside though is that the V/P-shaders on Xbox are new, not very advanced.. Xbox does not have the power to waste on un-optimised code..
When doing the effects in Cg you don’t get a very optimized code, therefore the system can and will slow down when the effects are run.
The best way right now to make V/P-Shaders is to do it in assembler because you have FULL control of what’s going on... You can optimize to code very easily.

As I said, its a good program for the smaller developers who wants to make easily effects fast..
It wont revolutionise how Xbox games look, it will just make things easier for small new started developers.

im with fastson on this one

especially cause Che got his back

See, fatson, that\'s where you\'re wrong, although I applaud you for your effort--when ignorants speak, it\'s always a good time.

The CG compiler is not a simple program that will write shaders with the push of the button.  It\'s not going to spit out a bunch of crap and make everything slower--not even close.  The compiler will free programmers and artists from low level assembly coding and let them focus instead on their algorithms in an environment they are more comfortable and practised in (C like).  Assmebly, even for the most talented, is arduous and complicated and time consuming, all the CG compiler will do is allow them to express themselves in a more familiar language.  Not only that, it will allow almost anyone in the industry to write and share ideas.

Despite what your PS2 whispered to you, programmers who were able to get great effects out of the GPU previously, will now be able to do it more easily, much faster, and since it\'s a common language, code can be shared between games and studios and improved upon even further.  Optimization will be easier, and the effects will be better on average.   Assembly (how shaders are written now) is only known and used by a handful of people in any given studio, now it is shared amongst the entire development community; and more minds equal more ideas and better graphics.

Sure, if an entire game was written in assembly it would theoretically be more effecient, but that would take a hundred years (literally).  Optimization is often trial and error and ends up doing more harm then good.  Now a 3Dmax artist can more accurately express him/herself, send that down to the real expert and let him/her go at it.

Also, getting the shader optimization out of the way more quickly will allow more time spent on more important things like AI, gameplay, etc..

This isn\'t going to give the xbox photo realistic graphics, but it\'ll make graphical effects (bump mapping, lighting, etc) more accessible and easier to manage.  

This is going to put the power in the hands of the devs, if they use it, it\'s their decision.  At worst, it one more thing that makes the xbox easier to use.

Cp = Glide

thats my story and im sticking to it

QUOTE]Originally posted by Watchdog
The CG compiler is not a simple program that will write shaders with the push of the button.  It\'s not going to spit out a bunch of crap and make everything slower--not even close.  The compiler will free programmers and artists from low level assembly coding and let them focus instead on their algorithms in an environment they are more comfortable and practised in (C like).  Assmebly, even for the most talented, is arduous and complicated and time consuming, all the CG compiler will do is allow them to express themselves in a more familiar language.  Not only that, it will allow almost anyone in the industry to write and share ideas.[/quote]

Like I said, it works like VectorC on the PS2.
VectorC lets developers write C-code in VectorC, and VectorC later transform the C-code into Assembly code.
The problem is that the code is not 100% optimised, C-code is not low level enough for you to optimise the code enough (on PSX developers first used compliers made by SCEI, later in PSX\'s life when they had pushed it to its limits they wanted to code on the metal to squeeze out all the extra power that was left)

Vertex and Pixel Shaders are BEST written in assembly, where you have 100% control over what the unit is doing.. You don’t have this much control if you code it in Cg, therefore you can waste power..

Like I said this program will be very handy for smaller developers, and it will save them alot of time. But the system will not run as well as if the effects were written in Assembly.

Its possible that vertex-pixel shaders will become more common now with Cg, thats good an all but the fact remians it is not optimised for the system.

Despite what your PS2 whispered to you, programmers who were able to get great effects out of the GPU previously, will now be able to do it more easily, much faster, and since it\'s a common language, code can be shared between games and studios and improved upon even further.

Optimization will be easier, and the effects will be better on average.   Assembly (how shaders are written now) is only known and used by a handful of people in any given studio, now it is shared amongst the entire development community; and more minds equal more ideas and better graphics.

It wont revolutionise the Xbox graphics, it wont make effects look better, but they will be easier and faster to make.. But the end result will not be the same as if they were made in Assembly.
Smaller developers will use Cg while bigger who want to make better effects will still do them in Assembly.. the basic code.

Also, getting the shader optimization out of the way more quickly will allow more time spent on more important things like AI, gameplay, etc..

You make the effect with Cg, if you want to optimize the code you must still use Assembly.

This isn\'t going to give the xbox photo realistic graphics, but it\'ll make graphical effects (bump mapping, lighting, etc) more accessible and easier to manage.

Exacly

And there he goes again spouting off at the mouth on a subject he knows nothing about, making a comparison that has no relevance.

Well done.