No more rumors.. the truth about Rare!

Go ahead and point them out mm...it\'s not like there\'s anything else going on in here.

nah, we all know why things the way they are in the console realm

i just dont "simply play games" tho

my time is too precious to waste on let down titles (not just the xbox variety, although it does possess the majority of them)

i just dont "simply play games" tho

Maybe I should have elaborated on this...what I meant is, why should you care what bad PR MS is getting?  If a good game comes along, are you going to hold a grudge against it with that PR in mind?

my time is too precious to waste on let down titles (not just the xbox variety, although it does possess the majority of them)

As of lately, I couldn\'t come out with a clear cut winner on let down titles...although I will say it doesn\'t encompass GC.

it doesnt matter to me what PR m$ gets

they are a piece of shit company that will reap someday what they\'ve been sowing the last 20 years

but thats an entirely different tangent

but thats an entirely different tangent

One that doesn\'t matter here...gotcha.

exactly

no use telling people about the light when theyre comfortable in the dark

Ah mm, always good for a poignant laugh at the heart of an issue

Better a late response from me than never? Eh, what do I care, I\'d rather not offer a cold shoulder when I don\'t have to.

Originally posted by SonyFan

Sony\'s mindshare going into the 32bit generation was extremely minimal. The PSX\'s sales didn\'t even boom until it\'s second year when they secured enough 3rd parties to bring a ton of exclusive high profile titles to their system.. not to mention a streight assload of sub-par and me-too games.

this next bit may help unravel the console/ PC knot that seems to be so sticky

you discount a healthy percentage of ‘mindshare\' burned out on console gaming since Atari\'s hayday, who in the meantime had become PC gamers, and started migrating back to video consoles during the 32bit era. Screw the Mario/Sonic mindshare, the name Sony looked great next to stacks of dead or dying consoles and addons. As does a wall of considerably less expensive games. Sure there\'s plenty of crap among the gems like any other system but cherrry picking through a heap o titles can be easy and fun, in case you don\'t know.

 

Originally posted by SonyFan

Right, but since those who bought into gaming durring the 32bit generation were raised on Playstation.. not Sega. According to you, Sega had no mindshare going into the 128 bit gen.. or actually.. they had even worse. A bad rep.

I don\'t. They had nearly that worldwide when the DC was discontinued.. and that was only 2 years. I think they easily could have broken 30 million by the end of it\'s lifecycle, expecially with as competetively priced as it was. The DC was doing better in it\'s day than the Xbox is doing now... even with all of the developers MS has added and having the strongest hardware. I can\'t believe you\'re still worried about them "Taking over". Shyt, I\'m half worried that they\'re gonna drop out and leave only Sony to dominate this generation.

woulda coulda shoulda, the cat was outta the bag when DC got outsold by PSX its second xmas season. Sega got over it, why can\'t you?

Originally posted by SonyFan

And yet again.. going back to mindshare. MS\'s name is everywhere.. If you own a PC (70% of American households), then you know MS\'s name. Considering the amount of idiots out there too (See: AOL users) most of them are happy and think Windows is great. Yet MS still can\'t do as well as a console that\'s been preceded by nourmerous failures and a history of dropping out of the market?

As has been pointed out, we got what you might call a \'negative mindshare  thang\' going on also. It was enough to seal DC\'s doom and MS has it going on big time. And I believe it\'s a lot more than either xbox fans or MS would want to admit.

me shrugs/ we shall see

Originally posted by SonyFan

That\'s pitiful. That wolf at the door looks more like a lamb.. and considering how much harder it is to monopolize the gaming market than it is to monopolize the PC OS market.. I can\'t see them ever being a real "Threat". What "Threat" anyhow.. how is a MS monopoly any worse than a Sony monopoly (which they almost had last gen BTW)? OS market has nothing to do with it..
a monopoly is bad for the market - PERIOD... no matter who holds it. I don\'t see one good reason why you should be discriminating against the Xbox, just because of what Microsoft has done in a totally different field.

I\'ll repeat, I\'m not worried about MS taking over the gaming console market.

to expand on my earlier statement in this thread; the MS wolf is at the door to the next phase the PC industry is about to enter, howling to lead the pack once again.   My observations point to xbox as one (now feeble) means to that end and it need never make a nickle on its own  to be considered a success by MS.

you discount a healthy percentage of ‘mindshare\' burned out on console gaming since Atari\'s hayday, who in the meantime had become PC gamers, and started migrating back to video consoles during the 32bit era. Screw the Mario/Sonic mindshare, the name Sony looked great next to stacks of dead or dying consoles and addons. As does a wall of considerably less expensive games. Sure there\'s plenty of crap among the gems like any other system but cherrry picking through a heap o titles can be easy and fun, in case you don\'t know. - Heretic

A healthy percentage? Are you sure about that? The home PC market was nothing to be overly excited about in the mid 80\'s to mid 90\'s. With high component costs, difficult to understand OS\'s (DOS & Win 3.1), and a lack of impressive content.. there weren\'t a whole lot of people playing PC games back then. Nowhere NEAR the amount find today.. and any PC gamers from those days who would switch to PSX later would only take up a very VERY small fraction of a slice. It wasn\'t until PC components came down in price drastically, and really the Internet gaining a large proliferation that the PC market really started to boom... around 1995, the same time the PSX launched. Most of todays PC gamers only started playing PC games from that time on.. because the vast majority of people couldn\'t afford nor had a reason to get a PC. The theory sounds nice.. but practically it doesn\'t hold any water. Most gamers who were dissallusioned after the Atari were casuals who jus gave up on gaming altogether. A small percentage stuck with it and were largely labeled as "Geeks" because they were either playing with kids toys or fancy calculators.

woulda coulda shoulda, the cat was outta the bag when DC got outsold by PSX its second xmas season. Sega got over it, why can\'t you? - Heretic

The point is, if the DC with a heavily negetive slant of public opinion can come back after a dismal failure like the Saturn and become a success (which it was on it\'s way to become had Sega not ran out of money and investor patience).. then it\'s not to hard for someone with almost no mindshare to come into the market and make a huge dent provided they secure some great games and have good quality hardware. Sega did it in the 8 bit days, Sony did it in the 32 bit days.. and someone else will surely do it again. Regardless of weither it\'s MS, Sony, Nintendo, or whoever who\'s controlling most of the gaming market.

As has been pointed out, we got what you might call a \'negative mindshare thang\' going on also. It was enough to seal DC\'s doom - Heretic

Actually, I believe it had a lot more to do with a lack of advertising and a lack of "High profile" titles. Yeah, the DC was home to some of the best games of this generation.. but they were niche titles like Nintendo\'s. There were no Final Fantasy\'s, no MGS2\'s, no Silent Hills or Medal of Honors. They had a few like Quake III arena, RE:CV, and Tomb Raider.. but those weren\'t quite enough. Not to mention they didn\'t have a plethora of Sub-Par games jus cramming the shelves giving casual gamers a variety to choose from.

I\'ll repeat, I\'m not worried about MS taking over the gaming console market. to expand on my earlier statement in this thread; the MS wolf is at the door to the next phase the PC industry is about to enter, howling to lead the pack once again. My observations point to xbox as one (now feeble) means to that end and it need never make a nickle on its own to be considered a success by MS. - Heretic

I don\'t see where you\'re getting the idea that advancements in gaming technology demand better and more expansive OS\'s. DirectX drivers are easily upgradable through free patches, and any drivers you may need come with the hardware. The OS bread & butter has always been with file sharing, networking, security, programming, and file management. These are spur the new release of an OS. For example, in the next MS OS that comes out there will be minimal gaming extras added in. The latest version of DirectX and maybe some more generic game controller drivers. That\'s about it... however it\'s biggest change will be in how it handles security. I\'m sure you remember that fuss everyone\'s been making about how MS will take control of your computer and configure everything remotely so that it can cut down on pirating and user errors?

Besides, the whole theory falls apart when you see the reality of what\'s happening. The Xbox is getting sloppy ports of PC games, rather than the other way around. Console game makers (unless they\'re already multiplatform) haven\'t expressed any particular interest in porting their games to the PC either. So where\'s that incentive gone? How is that helping the PC market?

As for consoles running home software in lue of a PC.. it\'ll never happen. PC\'s will always be the platform of choice mainly because of their open hardware and expandability which allowes for them to be upgraded and hence compatable with the latest tools, programs, and gadgets out there. With a console, you\'re always stuck at that one level of technology you were at when it launched.. until the next one comes out. The only thing consoles might add in the comming years is some of the most very basic PC functions.. like Internet capabilities, IM\'s, IRC chat, MP3 playing, some limited word processing, and maybe some very basic photo snapshot capturing and editing. That\'s pretty much it.

The PS2/PS3 poses no big threat to the PC OS market.

Originally posted by SonyFan

I don\'t see where you\'re getting the idea that advancements in gaming technology demand better and more expansive OS\'s.
 

Exactly. You won\'t even recognize a dead DC, how are you suppose to come to grips with an idea you don\'t like sound of ever possibly happening in the future? I might add, you seem to be willing to go to extreme lengths to prove how much you can\'t see.

If what I see is correct, how is it such a bad thing for xbox or MS?

Originally posted by Ginko



I\'ll answer this one with a quote from Altered:

 

Um......, Sony did not buy Eidos Interactive.

No one said they did.  They just secured the exclusive rights to a game made by Eidos for a period of time.

SonyFan,

What will be the reason for upgrading to WinXP, Y, Z and Z.5 over the next several years? The industry is coming slowly to a halt and a change will come sooner or later. And even if next generation consoles will only be able to check emails, surf the internet, very basic wordprocessing - for what do most people use a computer anyway? I think an entertainment system on a good solid HDTV will make it all the more attractive - especially considering that there are more TVs around than PCs. While you\'re at it, keep the price in mind aswell...

But seven, there\'s far less HDTV\'s out there than PC\'s.. and that isn\'t going to change for quite some time. That lower resolution and blurryness is just ONE of reasons why using even basic PC functions on a standard TV will never catch on. How are you supposed to do 3D art and photo editing when you can\'t even get the detail you need for even print quality because you\'re TV screen simply can\'t display the picture with the right color depth and resolution. Have you ever tried surfing the internet from your TV? Good god.. it\'s horrendous. A nice crutch for those who don\'t have any other means of access, but worthless to anyone who even has a low end PC.

MS\'s monopoly over the OS market secures this as well, since who is going to want to go from developing a single product for a single machine.. to devloping a plethora of versions for all the different console hardware out there.. maximising userbase? (Hell it\'s like pulling teeth getting developers to make programs for other PC OS\'s like Apple or Linux.) Expecially when they\'re programs are limited by outdated hardware. Want to make your software take advantage of the latest networking cable comming standard on new devices? Too bad.. the hardware doesn\'t support it. Not to mention, how are you going to use programs which DEMAND high system specs on a machine which has low system specs in certain key areas because it\'s designed as a gaming console? Going back to photo editing for example.. 32-64mb of Ram is pitifully low for even one medium quality .BMP scan. Then try to factor in the Ram that\'s eaten up by the proprietary OS.. all the background apps running and multitasking going on.. the limited amount of system resources are going to get eaten up VERY quickly. Now whereas in a PC you can simply upgrade and expand your hardware.. you\'re phucked on a console because you can\'t upgrade.

PC\'s are NOT in danger of being replaced by Videogame consoles. I can\'t believe some of you are actually entertaining that thought. While PC\'s and Console will take on certain characteristics of each other in the comming years, neither will be able to do the other\'s job nearly as well. Consoles jus don\'t have the open hardware and expandability needed to accomodate the newest programs running in tandem with each other and an OS. PC\'s just cannot offer the specified hardware needed to make games fully compatable/crash & bug proof or offer the necessarry hardware needed at reasonable prices.

As for what reason there will be to upgrade OS\'s in the comming years? New innovations in software - such as VRML, increased user friendliness, increased compatilibity, better emulation of various hardware, compatilibity with new innovations in hardware such as much much higher density HDD\'s that will be comming out before to long, increased security.. ect. As much as it may not seem like it now, the PC still has a long way to grow. Videogames are hardly a reason to keep pushing the PC industry.. although that is one area in which it is.

Heretic - Yes, the DC is dead. Nowhere in this thread did I say that it wasn\'t. It was used as an example, and if you cannot distinquish it as that then I see no further point in discussing this since in most likelyhood it\'ll jus end up as a flamewar.

The DC is dead.. however the PC isn\'t. You\'re argument that there is no real reason to upgrade OS\'s anymore has been fought over since Windows98 was released. Yet 4 new OS\'s later.. and the PC industry is still growing and giving new reasons to upgrade (although at a slower pace than before). This is something the Abandonware community has been screaming for years. Why upgrade? Why spend good money on software and hardware to accomodate when all the tools you\'ll ever need are already out.. abandoned.. and free for use? There was an artical on a site I used to visit about this. I wish I still had the link and the ability to post it, but ABware is technically piracy and thus not allowed here. This isn\'t a new issue.. and I\'m willing to bet that 3 generations of hardware down the road people will still be debating it. Why do we need newer hardware and software when we already have what we need? It didn\'t slow down the PC industry then.. and I see no reason why it would in the future either.

Yeah, but keep in mind, TVs are being bought throughout the world and as prices come down, the HDTV-market will expand greatly. Denying this would be foolish. The difference between a normal TV and a Plasma HDTV are quite big, so there\'s all the more reason to upgrade once the prices come down.

Also, you\'re bringing hardware into this, hardware which is not upgradable. Do you honestly think that Sony will force something up on us that doesn\'t work or seriously limited? While photoediting might be a problem because of RAM, movie editing should be all the better once there\'s a certain amount of RAM on the system. You probably haven\'t heard of this yet, but there\'s some really cool things being developed for PS2 already. Software that lets you connect your videocam to the PS2 and stream over while filming. Further, you can do editing on the fly, adding various effects in realtime to your video your filming - effects that are pretty amazing to say the least. Than you have other software that will let you connect cellphones and just about any other electronic devices. It\'s coming and you can bet that the next console (or more precise word "home entertainment system") from Sony will even make this more attractive than it\'s about to become.

What also needs to be said, is that I don\'t think we\'ll have a fullblown PC in our TV for some time - but it will be close enough for the average consumer to raise their eyebrow and find it cool. Again, I may ask, what does the average consumer do with their PC? Surfing the web, writting emails, some very basic wordprocessing, games here and there and perhaps some photo or videoediting. In the future, you won\'t need an expensive PC for this, nor will you need the newest OS. The reason to upgrade on your PC nowdays is getting smaller by the day and people are already starting to get pissed of having to upgrade their PC in order to run the newer software and for that newer OS. Is it necessary? Hell no and yet so many people are literally forced to upgrade. We\'ve been there with Win95/Win98/ME and soon to be XP. Sales are already suggesting that the market is changing and every Windows OS that has launched in the last few years had sold less than its predecessor. I don\'t think I need to point out how this trend is likely to progress if it\'s not going to change...

Oh and guess what, if people slowly refuse to upgrade every 1 to 2 years, where\'s Microsoft\'s profit heading? Down the drain slowly, that\'s where. A TV/home-entertainment system is likely to be all the more attractive if Sony does it right. Most people already have quite good TV\'s at home and will see little to no reason to invest in a PC that needs to be upgraded (for nothing), is costly, buggy, and a hassle to use.

You did name a few reasons to keep upgrading the OS, although I am convinced that it will take more than a few OS to get to that scenario that you have in mind. The next Microsoft OS is likely to increase just slightly over the previous - progressing quite slow until we get a real good reason to upgrade when a steady version comes out that is actually worth the upgrade. Just look at sales now and over the last few years - I doubt it will go back to what it once was like to upgrade.

Besides, think a few years ahead and imagine what the future will look like. Did you see Demolition Man (or other futuristic movies)? In just about every movie, you have a scenerio presented where there\'s some high definition TV in the living room from which you can control everything: the heating, stereo system, internet, wordprocessing, controlling the fridge, lights - just about anything you can imagine. There\'s no PC - which isn\'t suprising thinking that the TV (in that scenario) advanced so greatly that there is no need for a PC (that a) is costly and b) needs to be upgraded). Of course, that\'s only a scenario, but one that could possibly become reality. Sony\'s making the first steps here and if they do things right, they have the potential to put a serious dent on Microsofts market. Don\'t get me wrong though, I don\'t think anyone of us here is saying that the PC will just die, but simply that the market that is so profitable for Microsoft at the moment could shrink to a state where it just isn\'t as valuable as it once was.

Well it\'s a good thing MS buys Rare LTD. but I can live without Rare games.  Found this info today.

Press Release Source: Microsoft Corp.


Microsoft Acquires Video Game Powerhouse Rare Ltd.
Developers of Such Worldwide Hits as \'Donkey Kong 64,\' \'Banjo-Kazooie,\' \'GoldenEye 007\' and \'Perfect Dark\' Bring Their Talents to Xbox
Tuesday September 24, 4:00 pm ET


REDMOND, Wash., Sept. 24 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Microsoft Corp. (Nasdaq: MSFT - News) today announced it has purchased U.K.-based Rare Ltd., one of the world\'s leading video game developers, further demonstrating Microsoft\'s commitment to providing the most innovative interactive experiences available on its Xbox(TM) video game system. Rare has been the mastermind behind some of the most popular video games in history, including such global multimillion sellers as "GoldenEye 007," "Perfect Dark," "Banjo-Kazooie" and "Donkey Kong 64." Under terms of the $375 million cash transaction, Rare will today begin creating exclusive console gaming blockbusters for Xbox.
(Photo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20000822/MSFTLOGO)

In a statement made from Seville, Spain, where the announcement was made to both a live and worldwide webcast audience during the company\'s annual X02 event, Chris Stamper, chairman and technical director of Rare, said, "Our mission at Rare has always been to make the industry\'s best games for the widest possible audience. Teaming with Microsoft gives us the best opportunity to accomplish this goal. Microsoft\'s dedication and commitment to game creators, research and development, and to gaming innovation made them the obvious partner to take Rare into the future."

"We\'ve always insisted on pushing the envelope when it comes to creativity," added Tim Stamper, co-founder and creative director of Rare. "And now we get the chance to create for Xbox."

Rare co-founders Chris and Tim Stamper and their talented team of game developers and designers will continue to work out of Rare in Warwickshire, England. Rare was founded in 1985 as a partnership between the Stamper brothers and Joel Hochberg, now Rare president.

"This partnership significantly broadens our already outstanding portfolio of games that will be available for Xbox. And it also broadens our reach internationally as gamers around the world have demonstrated their fanaticism for what Rare consistently produces," said Robbie Bach, Chief Xbox Officer at Microsoft.

"The last time I was this excited was the first time I picked up a controller and played a game from Rare," said Ed Fries, vice president of Xbox Game Content at Microsoft. "As a gamer, you could hardly wait until Rare\'s next title was announced. You didn\'t know what genre it would be, but it didn\'t matter because you knew you were going to love it."

Rare grabbed the attention of the video game world in 1994 with its creation of "Donkey Kong Country." Selling more than 8 million copies, "DKC" went on to become the biggest-selling 16-bit title in history.

Rare became one of the premiere developers in the world, with sales averaging 1.4 million units per title and nearly 90 million games sold since the company was founded. Five of the top 20 all-time-best-selling N64 titles were developed by Rare, including "GoldenEye 007," the second-best-selling game in North America, with worldwide sales topping 8 million.

With today\'s announcement, Rare becomes the latest member of a star-studded lineup at Microsoft Game Studios, joining such prestigious worldwide developers as Bungie Studios, the masterminds behind the smash hit "Halo(TM)," named Game of the Year by Electronic Gaming Monthly. Rare\'s first creation for Xbox, "Kameo," is expected to reach store shelves next spring. Also under development is the highly anticipated sequel to "Perfect Dark." The company is expecting to develop at least five games over the next two years in a variety of genres, including racing, shooters and platformers.