Religious Discussion 101 (See page 7)

[§ôµÏG®ïñD]

You know what i think. It doesn\'t matter what i think, or anyone else. Cause in the end, will it matter...  Maybe to some it does, others it does not.

Hey what’s it called when you leave the church (like what are you? Unreligious? I live in a protestant country)?
Here we got to pay “church taxes” and I never go to Church or even believe in god so why should I (or my family) pay a Church tax?

I hate topics like these...

Anyway, I\'m a Christian. I\'m even going into the ministry as a youth leader. I\'m pretty heavy in what I believe/my way of life. I got to a Southern Baptist Church, however; I\'m not too big of traditions. I just follow God\'s Word and try to be like Jesus. So, yeah, I\'m ready to be bashed for being a Christian.

- nOt

[Titan]

Originally posted by nOt
I hate topics like these...

Anyway, I\'m a Christian. I\'m even going into the ministry as a youth leader. I\'m pretty heavy in what I believe/my way of life. I got to a Southern Baptist Church, however; I\'m not too big of traditions. I just follow God\'s Word and try to be like Jesus. So, yeah, I\'m ready to be bashed for being a Christian.

- nOt

We won\'t bash you unless you make stupid and ignorant remarks like some others *cough* clowd *hack*

Originally posted by Titan


Scientific facts? Please explain.

http://www.psx2central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=22481&highlight=origin+of+life

[videoholic]

I want to cry.  Hey, I\'m a mod now.  I could lock this thread..  hmmmmm.....

[Titan]

Those aren\'t scientific facts, they are scientific THEORIES. A difference. The origin of life is still a mystery and there is no explanation. Thats how religion got so successful and accepted. You said in your post that it was 1:1followed by 113 zeros. Its still a chance and a chance that it could have happened. Maybe it was that 1 time. Ever think about that? You have 1:10000 chances in becoming rich at Vegas (number is made up but my point is still the same), does it mean your aren\'t going to get rich? Still a chance. How do you know that that chance actually happened billions of years ago? You don\'t. That\'s not the only theory either. This one is believable too. Billions of years ago, there was an asteroid that hit the oceans and the asteriod had bacteria that could withstand the intense heat (there is bacteria that can survive in space and heat when coming through the atmosphere). Life then evolved from there.

Mathematicians agree that 1 to a number with a power over 50 is improbable,  this is a power of 113


I just want to ask,  why does what I say make everyone mad and angry?  Is it because hearing the truth stings?  So you lash out against me?  Like when Jesus exposed the scribes and pharisees,  they said he had a demon.

[Titan]

Originally posted by Clowd
Mathematicians agree that 1 to a number with a power over 50 is improbable,  this is a power of 113


I just want to ask,  why does what I say make everyone mad and angry?  Is it because hearing the truth stings?  So you lash out against me?  Like when Jesus exposed the scribes and pharisees,  they said he had a demon.

But religion isn\'t exactly right. Oh wait, it has to be because you believe it. Religion is an explanation on how life began and will end. That\'s all. It wasn\'t started to be taken so literally.

Originally posted by Videoholic
I want to cry.  Hey, I\'m a mod now.  I could lock this thread..  hmmmmm.....

I think that would be a good idea.  The second Cloud gets involved with a relgious thread, it goes bad.

[videoholic]

If it weren\'t for clowd and his pushing theory down our throats as fact this thread would go fine.

Rya:

from what I gather from what you\'ve said, you\'ve only seen happiness occur in a person when someone joins your church.

I never said that I only have seen happiness occur in a person when they join my church.  I agree with you that happiness can be found in many things.  Whether it\'s by following Christ, or by meeting a really nice person in your life.  I think we can agree on this though -- from a scripture found in the Book of Mormon (a book that we LDS believe to be scripture), "...wickedness never was happiness." (Alma 41:10)  When we are following Christ\'s teachings, and doing the "right" things, we will be happier people than if we are doing the wrong things.

I myself have found happiness through meeting and getting to know Ryu. Comparing to before and after him, I can feel the difference in the way I view the myself, and the world. For myself and others like me who have found happiness in getting to know someone, why would we need to find further happiness when we\'re already in bliss?

I can\'t wait until I can find a girl who I can marry and grow old with.  I agree that that is happiness.  I don\'t know how close you and Ryu are, if you are just really good friends, or if you are actually close enough to consider marriage (I don\'t think it\'s any of my business either ), but I do know that in a lot of people\'s beliefs, after this life that kind of happiness will be gone.  According to many people, after this life we either cease to exist (those are the beliefs of people who don\'t believe in God), or we go to heaven where we will be happy, but we won\'t be married to our loved one anymore.  Those are the two main theories I have heard, and I\'m sure there\'s many many more out there.  But I want to share a third theory, my churches theory:  After this life we can still be married to our spouse, and live and grow with them for eternity.  Now that is true happiness!

So I guess to answer to your last question, "why would we need to find further happiness when we\'re already in bliss?"  It\'s because that kind of happiness is not forever.  And only through Christ\'s church can it be.  (remember, this is what my church believes.  I state it as fact because I truly believe it to be fact, but I understand that you do not believe the same.  Please do not take offense if I have said something that you do not agree with.)

But why is there the phrase "God-fearing?" Human nature is to avoid being in fear, so why would a non-believer want to invite one type of fear into their lives?

The non-believers need not fear unless they are not living a worthy life.  If they are living a worthy life, then there is no reason for them to fear god.  If they are living a sinful life, then they have every reason in the world to fear god, and have every reason in the world to not want to believe in him.

So fear can be rid of by other mediums, other than having the belief in God.

True, true.  And one can be afraid of things on this world even if they do believe in God.  I agree with you there.

What confusion? Some people are not confused about life or human existence. Unless you\'re referring to another type of confusion.

And some people are.  Sure, many people have their beliefs about life, but many people are confused on some aspects of it also.  Whether they are unsure about what to believe all together, or they just have a tiny thing that just doesn\'t quiet make sense.  I\'m not saying that I know all the answers, or that I know every single detail about prelife, life, and afterlife.  What I am saying is that because of the knowledge I have, I know what is important.  I know what I need to know.  (for example, I don\'t know if we evolved from monkeys, or if we were put here directly from God with the snap of the fingers.  But I do know why we were put here, which is a million times more important.)

How can a person know that God exists when the followers don\'t take the efforts in finding out the truth?

They can\'t.  If one doesn\'t ever make an effort to know if God exists, he/she will never know until it\'s too late.  They will believe they know God exists based on what others have told them, but they won\'t know for themselves.

And the perception of truth is different for everyone.

No matter what the perception of truth is, the truth will always be the same.  There are thousands of different religions on the world today teaching many different things about who and what God is, but even with all of these different beliefs, God is still who he is.  No matter what we say about him, he will always be the same.

Let\'s say someone really did find the truth of which church is the true church and proof was presented? What if that truth shows that a good majority of Christians were part of the wrong church? How do you think they would react? I would think there would be some skepticism even if there is proof.

Well most Christians already agree that most Christians are in the wrong church, they just can\'t agree on which church is the right one.  If there was proof of a church being the one true church of Christ, then there would definitely still be skepticism.  They would pick apart the proof, or disregard certain aspects of the proof, and make their religion still be the true church.  Most of them would not believe that they were wrong, and would do everything they could to show why that proof really isn\'t proof.  I know this because I have seen it with the proof that has been found to support my church -- but that\'s an entirely different argument altogether.

And how can a person really trust God when his existence is questioned?

If one truly wants to find the truth, then they have to accept the possibility that there really is a God.  Otherwise they wouldn\'t be searching for the truth at all, but instead they would be searching for just something to believe in.

And the only source a non-believer were to get information of his existence is through God\'s followers.

That is why you have to get the information from the followers (who you can\'t trust), then ask God if it is true.

Again, this bring us back around to the perception of truth. There are so many "truths" that there can\'t be a sure answer of which one is the "true truth."

But if God does exist, then there can be a sure answer.  God has said that he cannot lie, so if you ask him, his answer will be completely true.



Continued...

Originally posted by shockwaves


I think that would be a good idea.  The second Cloud gets involved with a relgious thread, it goes bad.

How did I make this thread go bad?  What did I say that made it go bad?  Or are you just being petulant and irritable?

Videoholic you say I try to push theories down your throat.  How?  I just say I think there is more evidence that points to a creator in my opinion and now Im forcing something on you?  They say what evidence and I show them and Im forcing it on you?

...continuation from above.

IronFist said: And if there really is a God, why has he put us here? What does he want with us?

Rya Said: Do Christians know the answer to this? I hear that the only time they would find out the answer is when they\'re dead and meeting God himself. Isn\'t that a little late to find out this answer and revel in knowing it?

With this question, you can\'t group all of the Christian churches into one category.  Because some Christian churches believe in what you said, while others believe something different.  My church believes that this life is a test, and also a preparation period for the next life to come.  Here on this life we have certain things we needed to have done (like getting a physical body), and things we have to do (like baptism, and eternal marriage in a temple).  Because no unclean thing can dwell with God, this life is like a test.  If we are worthy in the end, if we pass the test, we will be able to live with God once again.  If we are not worthy, we fail the test and will never be with our Heavenly Father again.

IronFist said: To non-believers, these thoughts probably never cross their minds.

Rya said: But these thoughts have crossed a non-believer\'s mind at one point or another. In other religions, these questions are answered through explanations in their own faith. To athiests, there\'s a completely different answer.

Good point.  I guess that even non-believers need to find their place and purpose in this world.

Why not just leave the non-believers to rot in hell?

Because of a lot of reasons.  One major one is because you all are my brothers and sisters.  I believe that I knew you before we were born on this world (as a spirit in the spirit world) and that I cared for you all then.  I do not want to go into the next life only to find out that one of my favorite brothers or sisters didn\'t make it because I failed to teach the gospel to them.  That would brake my heart.  Even though you all are just names on the internet, I love each one of you as brothers and sisters.

I mean, for the non-believers it\'s their loss, right? Like, too bad for them.

Definitely not.  Maybe Racer believes that no work is required to make it to heaven, but I don\'t.  If I know the truth, and I fail to share it with others because I am shy (and yes, I am shy), then I will be held accountable.  I will not make it into heaven if I sit around vainly basking in my own knowledge (the knowledge that I wouldn\'t even have if God hadn\'t blessed me with it).

Define salvation. The definition, in a church-sense, that I was given was "to be saved from original sin."

I guess I would define salvation as "Making it to the highest degree of heaven, and in turn, having eternal life."

Yes, missionaries. Why at school? I thought that our government wants to separate the church and state.

All I can say is, strange.  I have never heard of that.  Missionaries usually just go around talking to people on the streets, or go knocking door to door.  Are you sure these missionaries were/are from the LDS church?

why do Mormons send out only young men?

I don\'t know the official reasons why, so I\'ll just say what I think.  1. Young people going door to door preaching the gospel are a lot more, how should I say it, "convincing" than a 40 year old man would be.  I think people would be more intimidated if 40 year old fat guys were trying to teach them about the church.  With first impressions meaning so much these days, it just wouldn\'t be as effective. 2. At the age of 19-21, we are pretty much in our prime physically.  It does take a lot of strength to be able to do what they do every day for two years.  3. At such a critical time in their lives, it is helpful for them to serve the Lord and have the Holy Ghost as a constant companion.  It helps them put a priority on their lives.

And why don\'t women get sent out? Unless there are and I haven\'t seen any.

Girls do get sent out.  

A prophet of our church in the 1970s (I think) commanded that all worthy young men should go on a mission at the age of 19.  It is not a commandment for the women to do that, but many of them choose to anyways.  Boys can go on a mission from the age of 19 up until they\'re 26.  They serve for 2 years.  Girls can go on a mission when they turn 21 up until they die.  There is no age limit for them (if I recall correctly).  They serve for a year and a half.  Then married couples who are really old (I don\'t know how old, but usually after they retire) can go on missions together.  I don\'t know how long their missions are.

And another question on conversion. A non-believer is invited to a church party by a friend who attends the church. The non-believer attends the party, because he/she thought it would be nice to get to know a little more about his/her friend\'s personal life. So why is it that there are some Christians who find it necessary to insult the non-believer by asking "So what makes you happy in your direction-less life?" I thought the idea of converting someone is to show how wonderful a community the converter would be joining. This situation actually happened to my sister. IronFist, I don\'t really expect you to answer this. I know you can\'t speak for other people. I would like your input though.

My input: People like that should be ashamed of themselves.  All that does is drive people away from their church.  They give a bad reputation to all of the people in that religion, and religions similar to it.  They are ignorant, and refuse to even accept that other people have grown up differently than themselves.  

Historically, isn\'t the real church that follows Jesus is the Catholic church? It\'s the first of the Christian churches after Jesus\' death and some people (ie Martin Luther, Henry VIII) just so happened to have a problem with it the Catholic church and decided to change the way God is worshiped.

My church believes that when Christ died, his church was completely wiped off the face of the earth.  His apostles were killed (most of them in horrible ways), and the priesthood, and the different keys of that priesthood were no longer on the earth.  The remaining members of the church apostatized and formed their own churches.  Many Christian religions (like the Catholics if I recall correctly), will agree that the church apostatized, but they say that the priesthood was still carried on through the past 2000 years by worthy priests.  Of course they are not able to actually show this.  My church believes that from about 500 AD, to 1830 AD, there was no true church on the earth.  Then Christ\'s church was restored on the earth in 1830, under the name of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Originally posted by Clowd


How did I make this thread go bad?  What did I say that made it go bad?  Or are you just being petulant and irritable?

Videoholic you say I try to push theories down your throat.  How?  I just say I think there is more evidence that points to a creator in my opinion and now Im forcing something on you?  They say what evidence and I show them and Im forcing it on you?

Yes, you are.  You argue theories, and often baseless ones as facts.  You ignore evidence detracting from your opinions, and have an attitude that you are superior to everyone else here, and you insult and belittle others who argue much more effectively and logically than you do in the first place.

As for the thread, you\'re right Vid.  Why not just say that Clowd can\'t participate then?  You could always delete his posts.