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Author Topic: The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)  (Read 4665 times)

Offline GigaShadow
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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #60 on: December 02, 2002, 12:35:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ben_high
I\'ll respond to the rest of the posts later since I have to be somewhere in a few.But I wanted to comment on Iraq.They don\'t have nuclear weapons right now.Are they trying?Who knows for sure.  Have fun going to Iraq and dieing if you\'re so patriotic,you would really only be dieing because Hussien tried to assasinate George Bush Sr.


Who knows if he is trying to build a nuclear weapon???  Uh everyone - except you it seems.  We are only going after Iraq because Hussien tried to have Bush Sr. assasinated?? :laughing:
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Offline ben_high
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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #61 on: December 02, 2002, 12:53:34 PM »
Sorry dude pick up a paper.At least once in a while.Hussien has been trying to set up nuclear power plants.Those can be easily used to enrich uranium for weapons,and probably is the reason he has set them up in the first place,I have no doubt about that.But so far that is all he\'s done is try to build the same kind of nuclear power plants every other major country has.And import CNC mills and lathes that the bush admin sees as tools for making nuclear weapons.I use these machines every day.

It\'s only suspicion right now.IMO well founded considering the kind of man Hussien is,but still it would take him at least half a dozen years to relize it.In that time America has stood by while Pakistan,India,and N.Kore have in fact developed nuclear arms in just the last three years.Yet no outrage,no threats,no action has been taken against those countries to prevent it.We knew what they were doing and did nothing to prevent it.

And despite what you may think about pakistan after our (short lived) use of their airfields during the war in afganistan,out of all those countries Pakistan is the greatest danger to us.Their military is filled with hard line muslim extremist ready to take over that country.
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Offline Living-In-Clip

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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #62 on: December 02, 2002, 12:56:09 PM »
The amazing thing Mj, is you\'re taking a simple debate and making things personal. This is not personal. If you can\'t behave, please don\'t even bother posting in here, okay?

I have no problem with everyone\'s opinions. Everyone is entitled to one and I think it is a good thing that everyone feels so strongly about their political standpoint on America at this point. It shows some sort of dedicate. However, when it comes to cheap shots and name calling, it is pointless and stupid, so come on, let\'s keep it civil, otherwise a perfectly decent thread is going to end up in a flame war and closed.

My main quam wit Bush is the fact he is power hungry. I knew this when he was over Texas. The man had one of the highest rates of execution. Now personally, I can\'t support him. I don\'t believe in capital punishment. His actions in the white house only prove my thought more. He likes death and destruction. Bush craves this stuff and in my humble opinion, may lead America into a worse downward spiral than it is already in. We don\'t need all these wars.


Better yet - I can sum this thread up.

Giga > Ace > Mj > Etc for Bush.

Shock > Sam> Me > Luckee>  etc against Bush.

The two sides never agree with the other.
Politics is beautiful.
;)

Offline mjps21983
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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #63 on: December 02, 2002, 01:11:08 PM »
I LIC don\'t see what is wrong with capital punishment, how does this show that he is power hungry??? Hope I didn\'t say anything personal in this post ;-)

Offline shockwaves
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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #64 on: December 02, 2002, 01:39:30 PM »
Giga, I can\'t even begin to respect a thing you are saying.  The fact that you have stated perfectly outright that you don\'t care about things that don\'t affect you sickens me.  It is people like you that make up the core of what is wrong with the American system.  It\'s people like you who don\'t care about anyone or anything but themselves and what directly affects them that cause so many of the problems we have.  

And how is what I said about Bush any different at all from what you said about the 50s?  You say that you can learn about the 50s in school or in books.  Well can I not learn about the actions of former presidents in the same way?  I don\'t see how my comparison is any less valid than yours.  

Did I say that the government can do no right?  No.  Way to continue making assumptions about me though.  I think that our government does a lot of good.  I don\'t, however, blindly accept whatever they do as good.  That\'s the difference.  Terrorist actions in this nation are far lower than most other parts of the world as it is.  And do you really think that laws like these ones recently imposed are going to prevent something as well thought out as the events of 9/11?  If so, you\'re naive to think so.

As for military service, I would serve my country in a heartbeat in a war where my services are needed, and we are fighting for a just cause.  World War 1?  I\'d enlist.  World War 2?  Ditto.  A war in Iraq?  No.  I\'m not going to fight in a war that I think is wrong to begin with.  That goes back to my not wanting to blindly follow my government.

As for the differences with WW2, and what we did with Japan...I think that the dropping of the bombs was one of the single worst events in human history.  The fact that we picked civilian areas like the ones targetted is sickening.  We didn\'t take out military, or even industrial targets.  We bomb Hiroshima first, a largely residential city that had no major industry, and no military presense.  And there was no need to drop a second bomb...don\'t even try to tell me otherwise.  Of course Japan\'s attack on Pearl Harbor was wrong, but that doesn\'t make the dropping of the two atomic bombs right.

As for the tax cuts...they were blatantly in favor of the rich.  The 28, 31, and 36 percent rates fall by 3 percentage points, while the 39.6 percent rate falls by 4.6 (source).  In otherwords, the largest tax cuts went to the rich...the ones that needed it the least.  Actually, if you wanna look at the bottom of this report, you find something interesting.  
Quote
Our findings, based on recent economic research, are stark. We find that EGTRRA was fiscally unsustainable even before the economic downturn and the September 11 terrorist attacks slowed the economy. We estimate that the tax cut will not raise long-term growth, but it will raise burdens on future generations. EGTRRA will also raise interest rates.


Wow, sounds like this one\'s gonna be a real winner.

As for the budget...with these tax cuts, money has to come out of something, right?  Where is it coming out of?  Environmental programs, energy conservation, and agricultural preservation.(source)  Hell, the tax cuts Bush is giving to the top 1% of Americans total $555 Billion, while he isn\'t even proposing that half that same amount be used in the continuing increase in educational or medical programs.  Infact, when all is said and done, it is estimated that the money saved by the top 1% of the nation will be greater than the new resources proposed for all other national priorities combined. (source).  In other words, instead of putting money back into the American educational and medical systems, and environmental programs, the money is being given back to the richest people in the country...those who need it least.  As if it wasn\'t bad enough that the top 1% of this nation already have more wealth than the bottom 95%.

Ace: I was not trying to compare the dropping of two bombs on Japan during wartime to a terrorist setting a bomb off in an American city.  Those things souldn\'t be compared, and if that\'s what you thought I said, you are right to argue that.  I was talking about a bomb being potentially used against the United States during a large scale war.

Giga (again): Why you treated James\' post as you did I don\'t know, but once again, it sickens me.  He had said he would post more today.  He was just reacting to your blatantly hypocritically view of my post.

Mike: Sources.  Happy?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2002, 01:42:46 PM by shockwaves »
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Offline mjps21983
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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #65 on: December 02, 2002, 01:52:59 PM »
Thank you so much for the sources, I\'m going to post later, about my thoughts on everything so I can clarify where I stand on every little bit that is up for debate here, I\'m I guess you could say along the fence
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Offline Titan

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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #66 on: December 02, 2002, 01:54:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Better yet - I can sum this thread up.

Giga > Ace > Mj > Etc for Bush.

Shock > Sam> Me > Luckee>  etc against Bush.

The two sides never agree with the other.
Politics is beautiful.
;)


Thats why I\'m not republican or democrat. Neither side is right and they are all morons. They screw up the country. We need a new party or more independants IMHO. I do support Bush in the war with Iraq. He is the most likely to set off a nuke in the world. Does he have any? Probably not. Is he hiding something? Yes. He\'s also violated quite a few signed treaties. He fired on us which violated the UN treaty with us and Iraq. As for N.Korea, they like to remain in isolation. They don\'t want anything to do with the rest of the county. However, they might strike. We are keeping a close watch with them.
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Offline shockwaves
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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #67 on: December 02, 2002, 02:02:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Titan


Thats why I\'m not republican or democrat. Neither side is right and they are all morons. They screw up the country. We need a new party or more independants IMHO.


I couldn\'t agree with this more.
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Offline GigaShadow
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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #68 on: December 02, 2002, 02:04:16 PM »
Shockwaves - I must leave work right now, but I will eventually get around to replying to your post.  Don\'t worry pal, the feeling regarding respect is mutual.
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Offline shockwaves
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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #69 on: December 02, 2002, 02:10:06 PM »
What have I done to deserve the mutual feelings, besides get mad at you for insulting my intelligence and disregarding my opinion based solely on age?  You\'ll notice I didn\'t say that I have the same feelings towards Ace, although he shares your viewpoint.  I\'m not pety enough to hate someone based on their political beliefs.  It\'s when they decide not to respect what I have to say based on such bullshit reasoning that I form opinions.
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Offline Black Samurai
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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #70 on: December 02, 2002, 04:11:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mjps21983
I don\'t see what is wrong with capital punishment
What is right with capital punishment? As a matter of fact, what is right with the prison system as a whole?

BTW, before anyone gets on me about the prison system. I think that it is necessary but I also think that it is fundamentally skewed.

Also as far as the FIA goes. My main problem is the amount of unchecked power that it gives. They say that it will only be used for identified terrorists. So who decides who is a threat to america? Anything with sweeping unchecked powers is wrong, period.

I also think that everyone should be required to perform some form of military duty. It will be better for the person in the long run than the country though.
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Offline Jumpman

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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #71 on: December 02, 2002, 07:33:35 PM »
Quote
What have I done to deserve the mutual feelings, besides get mad at you for insulting my intelligence and disregarding my opinion based solely on age?

Easy. You share the same mutual disrespect towards each other because you both strongly disagree with each other and find the other\'s view on this matter radical and or nonsensical.
Who is this anamoly we call Jumpman? How is he able to do what he does and still survive after years of torment? It seems he feeds on the hate, growing with an intense passion to put unassuming members in their place.

Offline shockwaves
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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #72 on: December 02, 2002, 07:44:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jumpman

Easy. You share the same mutual disrespect towards each other because you both strongly disagree with each other and find the other\'s view on this matter radical and or nonsensical.


Well, as I stated in the part of my post you chose not to quote, my reason for hating him has nothing to do with his beliefs.  He is entitled to believe whatever he wants.  It\'s about his disrespecting me, and discounting my opinions based solely on my age.  I, personally, am above losing respect for someone based on their views alone.  I would like to think that we all are, but I guess that isn\'t the case.
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Offline EmperorRob
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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #73 on: December 02, 2002, 07:59:59 PM »
The only reason they want to make a new legal system is b/c the one we have is broken.  It\'s hard enough to put murderers and rapists and pedophiles in jail and once they get there people like Bill Clinton pardon them and put them in government positions.
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Offline Jumpman

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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #74 on: December 02, 2002, 08:09:52 PM »
Sorry Shock. I didn\'t read the rest of your post. My bad.
Who is this anamoly we call Jumpman? How is he able to do what he does and still survive after years of torment? It seems he feeds on the hate, growing with an intense passion to put unassuming members in their place.

 

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