Popularity of the US around the world

Originally posted by shockwaves
I didn\'t realize the purpose of this thread was to discuss Japan and WW2.  Threads don\'t have set purposes, they evolve into whatever people make them



See, we can agree on some things.  I absolutely hate that woman.

I was being sarcastic shockwaves.  Meaning I think a little too much objectivity is going into some of these posts.  

I will pull an Alec Baldwin if Hillary does and I will actually follow through with my threat!

Originally posted by Event Horizon
By \'cut off\', does he mean \'refuse to sell Japan our oil\'? If so, how is that wrong? It\'s our oil to do with as we please. Refusing to sell Japan our resources is not a valid provocation of war by any stretch of the imagination IMO.

If by \'cut off\', he meant a blockade of some sort, well, that\'s another story.

No, there was no blockade.  Japan had quite a fearsome navy itself.

So for understanding the fact that they did what they had to do and we did what we had to do, I\'m brainwashed?  That\'s the second inference to such behavior you\'ve made in this thread, are you going to start calling our Chinese members dirty communists now?

Originally posted by GigaShadow


I was being sarcastic shockwaves.  Meaning I think a little too much objectivity is going into some of these posts.  

I will pull an Alec Baldwin if Hillary does and I will actually follow through with my threat!

Don\'t worry, I know.  I\'m just trying to pick out things to post about in this thread that won\'t piss me off  I don\'t have the energy for an arguement now, but I wanna stay in the thread
/me shrugs

And you think Hillary is bad for you guys...I live in the state that elected her.  Both of my parents voted for her, and I was one election too late to vote against her

I don\'t see how bombing Pearl Harbor would have gotten us to re-open our oil supply to them.

My view is that they believed that the United States was going to enter the war anyway.  If they had this belief, then why not take out as much of their pacific fleet as possible before they do.

Originally posted by Ace
This is what you get when liberals run our school systems. It is an indoctrination into the liberal lifestyle.

You have no idea what you\'re talking about.  The explanations that Giga is presenting, which you seem to agree with are the conventional wisdom that IS taught in schools.[/i]  Your knee jerk reaction is not applicable here.

Everyone else:

I don\'t seek to make any argument for Japan being a pillar of virture in WWII.  Their massacres and subjugation of the Chinese during the war was as bad as any crime committed by any participant at the time.  I\'m just saying that it\'s a bit hard for me to believe that our nation was completely justified in murdering hundreds of thousands of civilians by bombing two large populations centers with no tactical value.  I say that the same outcome could have been achieved by demonstrating the weapons in a more sparsely populated area of Japan.

Someone stated earlier that our leaders at the time, and many veterans today had no problem with the decision after what the Japanese did to us at Pearl Harbor, and so forth.  To that I say...  I\'ve always felt that the most admirable characteristics in a person and a people (a nation) is their capacity for mercy and forgiveness.  I think the conclusion of WWII proved that our nation lacks those qualities.  Even in my lifetime, long after the war, I have sensed that Americans can be a very mean spirited and unforgiving people.  I\'m not afraid to look in the mirror and see those qualities in me, as a product of this society.  Recognizing it gives you the opportunity to oppose it.

[...] the conclusion of WWII proved that our nation lacks those qualities.

That could be said with all of the participating countries excluding Canada and maybe Great Britain.

All in all Japan needs oil, we don\'t give it to them, they get pissed like a five year old wanting candy in a line at Wal-Mart and decide to bomb us!!! U.S acting back beats the living hell out of the little kid a.k.a Japan.

 We may have not needed to use the Atom bomb, but decisions are made in this world that we may regret, just because we regret them doesn\'t mean at that point and time they were wrong or even now. Innocent lives are lost every day it\'s a simple fact of life, war just brings out the worst in everything. Civilian casualties are bad as are friendly fire, but no one is perfect.

Coredweller,

I know what I\'m talking about, sometimes I like to tweak my Friends to the left.

By the way, it\'s true! It\'s what Giga calls revisionist attitudes and it\'s being taught in our schools by people who want to change history.

Even in my lifetime, long after the war, I have sensed that Americans can be a very mean spirited and unforgiving people. I\'m not afraid to look in the mirror and see those qualities in me, as a product of this society. Recognizing it gives you the opportunity to oppose it.

*queue God Bless America*

I see America, for the most part, exactly the opposite of your view. Why is that? I see all the good we do around the world. I see when a disaster strikes, in some god forsaken land, we are there to lend a hand. I see us dropping food on a country that we are at war with to feed the hungry.

I know we have had our problems in this country and we have made mistakes, but I don\'t look into the mirror and see an ugly American. There are enough people, it seems, in other countries to hate us. I am not willing to be one of them.

Ace

The fact of the matter is, I don\'t mind someone debating the merits of todays issues ie. Iraq.  What really irks me is when people try and rewrite history or worse - justify what the enemies of this country did during that time.  

Its one thing to discuss the present, but to say Japan was justified (for example) or even "see it from their point of view" is sickening.  I ask all of you who said we were wrong to drop the bomb this:  Its 1945, you are an 18/19 yr old marine sitting in the Pacific preparing to invade the Japanese homeland.  All of a sudden 2 bombs are dropped and the war is over.  Are you upset?  I can not see the logic in any American having regret for dropping the Atomic bomb and saving American lives.  As I have stated before in this thread over and over again...  Studies show that more Japanese lives were saved than if the bombs hadn\'t been dropped.

On a different note - I think this topic is justified in this thread since it about the popularity of the US around the world and the dropping of the Atomic bombs does play a part in how people view us - as this thread has so aptly pointed out.

Originally posted by Ace



*queue God Bless America*

I see America, for the most part, exactly the opposite of your view. Why is that? I see all the good we do around the world. I see when a disaster strikes, in some god forsaken land, we are there to lend a hand. I see us dropping food on a country that we are at war with to feed the hungry.



Ace

Call me picky but isn\'t that the reason why the US\'s popularity isn\'t as high as some of you want it to be outside America :rolleyes:

that fact that all of this never usualy reaches the starving masses ?

i mean most Aid is Either Captured by Warlords to feed their troops.

or

"acquired" by a corrupt Government.. then repackaged  and  then given to the starving masses (result ?) = starving masses think the corrupt Government saved the day.

Its one thing to discuss the present, but to say Japan was justified (for example) or even "see it from their point of view" is sickening.

I\'m just wondering how your knowledge is somehow absolute on the whole subject.  Considering how many "Sources" of information there are any how many different versions of the same story of history there are, and considering the fact that you did not sit in on the meetings of any of these world leaders, how can you be so sure that the message conveyed to you was the absolute correct one without any flaws?  We can what-if about this all day and neither of us would get anywhere, but I just don\'t see how you can still hold this deep down hatred for a generation\'s actions that have since rescinded.

I remember the importance of what happened, but I can\'t hold a grudge against any one person or any one people.  I understand and forgive and that\'s all I\'m trying to say.  We ate it at Pearl Harbor, the Japanese ate it just about everywhere else and now our two countries overlap with citiznes, business, production, creativity, and so many other factors that to hold a grudge against them for past mistakes just doesn\'t make any sense.  It\'s been nearly 60 years and both countries have done some things that they are not particularly proud of, but I would rather embrace and enjoy the benefits of our two cultures mingling rather than constantly remind our children of their past regression and treachery.

They\'re human beings just like we are and the number of people killed on both sides is more than enough compensation for any wrong doings of either nation.

Ryu I am not debating how Japan is now.   Hell I love Japan now.  I am just referring to the World War 2 era.  Just because I like them now doesn\'t mean I think they were justified in attacking us in 1941.  The scope of my argument is limited to the war years - nothing after.  Maybe that is where some peoples point of view comes from in this thread.  I can seperate the two and have.  I have no hatred of the Japanese people at all.  Do I think they got what they deserved during the war?  Yes.

[Titan]

Originally posted by Ace
If Hillary ever wins, God forbid, she will apologize for everything we have ever done and some things we haven\'t done.

Ace

Hey, Clinton will be the first lady