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Author Topic: Car Dealership sues message board  (Read 1150 times)

Offline GigaShadow
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« on: February 05, 2003, 12:03:21 PM »
I have been a member of vwvortex for a while, but haven\'t been back in a year... well today I went back and saw a thread I participated in that was small at the time, but was huge when I looked today... Some of you may have heard about this a while ago, but if you haven\'t and are bored, check out this thread - WARNING - it is VERY long.  I can\'t believe a car dealership would actually sue a customer and a message board over complaints posted there.  


http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=52126&page=1

read mostly g_man\'s posts as he is the one who was taken to court.
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Offline GigaShadow
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« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2003, 12:23:02 PM »
I am just getting close to the end now... geez I should pretend some big company is suing me.  This guy had tons of paypal donations... I wonder what he did with it...???
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
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Offline Ace
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« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2003, 12:25:47 PM »
Giga,

Can you break it down and let us know what\'s going on. I looked at the thread and there is over 30 pages.:nut:

I can\'t stand dealerships after looking for a car last year and I really want to know what\'s happening.

Ace
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Tony Blair\'s Address to Congress

Offline Ace
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« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2003, 12:27:23 PM »
Quote
I am just getting close to the end now... geez I should pretend some big company is suing me. This guy had tons of paypal donations... I wonder what he did with it...???


Nevermind!! :)

Now I think I\'ll read the whole thing.

Ace
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There never has been a time when the power of America was so necessary or so misunderstood . . .
Tony Blair\'s Address to Congress

Offline shockwaves
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« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2003, 12:27:29 PM »
Has there been a ruling on any of this yet?  I hope the car company doesn\'t win.  That\'d just be horrible.
.::§hockwave§::.

Offline Coredweller
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« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2003, 12:29:53 PM »
VW Vortex... yeah I remember this one.  I read that thread like a year ago, but I\'m sure it\'s much larger than it was then.  What\'s the current situation?  Has there been any resolution yet?
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Offline GigaShadow
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« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2003, 12:30:21 PM »
As of the part I am at they dropped the case... the webmaster for Jim Ellis logged on and made the announcement, yet no one believed it was really them until someone called... this has to one of the best posts I have ever read... LOL  And to think I posted on page 2 and never came back to look at it!
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Offline ooseven
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« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2003, 12:40:30 PM »
a summary

Quote

Man sued for venting auto-service blues on BBS
By Thomas C Greene in Washington
Posted: 22/11/2001 at 08:46 GMT


Georgia Tech graduate student George Mantis has been sued for libel by a local Volkswagen dealership after detailing his unpleasant experience with the company\'s service department on a BBS at VW enthusiast Web site VWvortex.

According to Mantis\' original post, Cobb County, Georgia dealership Jim Ellis Motors twice accepted service appointments for minor repairs to his 2001 GTI, at the conclusion of which nothing had been done.

After agreeing to leave the GTI for a third day, during which he needed transportation, Mantis says he inquired about hiring a car. Unfortunately, none were available at the time, "But my [service] advisor assured me that they have a special deal with Enterprise: $30/day for Jim Ellis customers. So it\'s off to Enterprise, where they never heard of such an arrangement!"

And when the car was finally finished, two minor issues remained unresolved, a new glitch had mysteriously appeared, and oily handprints presented themselves for inspection on the leather upholstery, we\'re told.

The service manager, Mantis says, went so far as to give him a hard time because he\'d bought the car from another VW dealer.

Not that we\'ve ever experienced anything like this ourselves....

So after starting his thread at VWvortex entitled "Worst service ever" back in July, he recently had the pleasure of entertaining a Cobb County Sheriff\'s deputy bearing a warrant for him to appear in court and answer libel charges.

This would be outrageous hands down if Mantis hadn\'t closed his original post thus: "With no other recourse, I\'m seeking revenge as best I can. This is one way: telling all of you to avoid this dealership, for sales or service, like the plague."

It\'s that unfortunate word \'revenge\' we worry about. Any greenhorn corporate PR flack or political speech writer knows that the universally-accepted substitute for \'revenge\' is \'justice\'. See how much better it reads with the substitution.

In any case, the dealership had sought a preliminary injunction barring Mantis from posting at VWvortex, but that was denied. A temporary restraining order barring him from contacting or visiting Jim Ellis Motors was granted, but Mantis says it\'s irrelevant as he wouldn\'t touch the place with a ten-foot pole in any case.

The dealership is also seeking removal of the offending BBS thread and a pile of cash to ease its pain and suffering. Thus "Vortex Media" is named as a co-defendant, though the correct defendant would be Jamie Vondruska, as a ten-second Whois query reveals. Whether this error is sufficient to shield the Web site operators from collateral damage we don\'t yet know.

So now it\'s off to court, where we\'ll eventually find out if anecdotal reports slamming car dealers are exempt from First Amendment protection, and whether Web sites should be held liable for the postings of visitors.

We\'ll also be quite eager to learn how well the idea of suing consumers catches on in customer relations circles.

Update
As of Wednesday night, Jim Ellis Motors has invited Mantis and his lawyer to negotiate a settlement. Because of the quaint American turkey festival going on at the moment, it may be several days before we learn if this will avert a civil trial. Mantis says that if he can avoid one, he\'s inclined to donate the contents of his legal defence fund to the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF). The relevant post is on page 22 of the incredibly long thread he started four months ago. ®
“If you’re talking about sheep or goats, there could be some issues,” [/color]

Offline GigaShadow
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« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2003, 12:48:59 PM »
Ok here is the settlement...

Posted by g-man_ae on 12/3/2001

A SUCCESSFUL CONCLUSION HAS BEEN REACHED
The meeting

My attorney, Mitch White, and I met Jimmy Ellis, COO of the Jim Ellis corporation, and the company\'s attorney, Doug Hassinger to resolve the situation between myself, VWvortex, and Jim Ellis - Marietta and its General Manager, William Farmer. The meeting took place at 3 PM on Friday, November 30 in Mr. Ellis\' conference room in the Ellis Porsche dealership in Chamblee.

Mr. Ellis was quite approachable and most open to discuss the situation, beginning with an apology that this meeting wasn\'t taking place back in July. Right away, he set the tone for the meeting by asking the attorneys to step out, indicating that this wasn\'t a legal meeting. Rather, it was a meeting between him and I to determine, "Where do we go from here?" citing this whole turn of events as a "costly lesson about the Internet."

He indicated that he was aware of the situation - the service visit, the "banishment," and subsequent posting thereof (of which he complimented me for being well-written and able to explain myself well). He informed me that he feels Jim Ellis\' dealerships are good, but can be better, and he\'s interested in seeing that improvement take place.

He repeated throughout the meeting that the actions of William Farmer and his employees were rooted in fear and emotion. Emotion, as irked by my post, and fear, due to the dangerous nature of the car business (there\'ve been a number of threats from disgruntled customers through the years, across many dealerships). I\'ll pause at this point to mention to all of you that there have been a number of threatening messages, both on VWvortex and e-mailed directly to Mr. Farmer. Understand that I *never* advocated such actions, as they solve nothing and lead only to loss

I thus explained that I had no intention of seeing these vents come this far, let alone be resolved in violence. I then conveyed to Mr. Ellis my feelings on the entire situation. How I tried to be patient during my service visits. How frustrated I was to get no help from the dealership\'s staff, nor from VWoA or the BBB. How I turned to posting to the Vortex as a last resort. How if only Mr. Farmer (now receiving "additional training") had contacted me directly to resolve my service issues before the situation escalated to its recent state! And how unhappy I was that my fiancée got dragged into this.

Mr. Ellis apologized to me personally, for the actions of this dealership\'s employees, and later contacted my fiancée to apologize to her for her treatment. "It was a very bad call to involve an innocent third party," he stated.

He outright stated his intention to open the lines of communication between their dealerships and their customers, so that customers\' issues can be resolved amicably and quickly. As such, he\'s instructing his Webmaster to make evident this renewed commitment and provide on-line feedback "straight to the top." This he reiterated to me many times, and I offered in exchange to include this in setting up the new dealer-customer web site (see end of this post)

At this point, I mentioned that in order to move forward, I need to be compensated for the past. Thus, Jimmy Ellis has agreed to



Apologize to me and my fiancée (done, at meeting/in person)

Publicly state the successful resolution of this situation, and with it, the renewed commitment to customer care

Dismiss the temporary restraining order against me

Reimburse the $75 I paid for my CD player installation

Pay Mitch\'s bill (which Mitch can simply send to Mr. Ellis)
With an agreement that all situations should be solved this rationally (again, WITHOUT threats of violence), this concluded the meeting.

To the Vortex Moderators

There have been a number of posts of questionable taste in this thread, including those advocating the use of violence, particularly in this situation. There are also those who have resort to personal insults. For the sake of the JE staff, and the "nobler" of the members here, I ask that you please remove any such offensive posts from this thread.

Thank-you\'s

 First and foremost, to the hundreds (if not thousands) of auto-enthusiast board members - both on VWvortex and elsewhere - for their TREMENDOUS support, regarding my service issues, the resulting lawsuit, and its conclusion. I might have "given up" if not for all of you... And of course, to my family and friends, both at Georgia Tech (particularly the readers of git.talk.cars) and elsewhere.

 Second, to the VWvortex itself and its staff. They provide us - for free! - the means to share our own VW-owning experiences. And they stood by me in keeping this thread alive and accessible. Let\'s never forget the service they\'re providing us, and how it benefits us.

 Third, to my attorney, Mitch White, for his understanding and patient guidance through the entire legal action. I can\'t emphasize enough how important it is, not only to have legal representation in any legal action, but to be represented by someone who truly understands your case and takes a personal interest in its successful outcome. Mitch is once such attorney - the ONLY one I found, after some dissatisfying prior consultations with other attorneys.

 Finally, to Mr. Jimmy Ellis, the "cooler head" that realized that negative customer experiences are opportunities to create positive customer experiences.

What now?

I direct all of you to the Dealer Consumer Reports Program thread on VWvortex, located at http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=165787.

  With that, I think we can put this thread to rest, and get on with being VW enthusiasts!


I STILL WANT TO KNOW WHAT HE DID WITH ALL THAT MONEY!!!! :confused: :confused:
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
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Offline luckee
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« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2003, 12:54:21 PM »
Someone posted that at two of the sites I visit often and we all sent out the word to avoid that dealer at all costs and to spread the word.

Such BS in this world its actually kinda comical.
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Offline GigaShadow
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« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2003, 12:56:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by luckee
Someone posted that at two of the sites I visit often and we all sent out the word to avoid that dealer at all costs and to spread the word.

Such BS in this world its actually kinda comical.


I would have bet the house that you had seen it luckee, especially after seeing the 85+ car sites that linked to that thread. ;)

The funny stuff in that 30+ pages was:

1.  Jim Ellis issued a summons to the wrong company (co defender) in the suit.  They sent it to some company in Cobb County GA called Vortex Enterprises who has nothing to do with the message board.

2.  The few that came on there and made fun of George (g-man) and called him a drama queen.

3.  Jim Ellis choosing the wrong guy to mess with - apparently George has a couple of PhD\'s and went to Georgia Tech at the time.

4.  I still haven\'t figured out what he did with all those donations since Jim Ellis paid for his attorney. :confused:
« Last Edit: February 05, 2003, 01:05:58 PM by GigaShadow »
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
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[/size]One Big Ass Mistake America

Global Warming ROCKS!!!![/b]

Offline luckee
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« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2003, 01:06:29 PM »
heheh, yup. We support our own, even when they drive something else.

You should have seen what happend when some guy bought a 03 SVT Cobra and one of the mechanics at a ford dealer on the board as well as  where the owner posts showed up talking about ragging on someone new limited edition car!!
\"Booze, broads, and bullshit. If you got all that, what else do you need?\"-Harry Caray

Don\'t cry over spilled milk., It could have been Whiskey.-Me

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.-George Washington

Offline GigaShadow
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« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2003, 01:07:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by luckee
heheh, yup. We support our own, even when they drive something else.

You should have seen what happend when some guy bought a 03 SVT Cobra and one of the mechanics at a ford dealer on the board as well as  where the owner posts showed up talking about ragging on someone new limited edition car!!


Do you have a link??? Now that would be a good time waster to read. :D
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
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Global Warming ROCKS!!!![/b]

Offline luckee
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« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2003, 01:09:25 PM »
lemme see if I can find it, dont think I can though
\"Booze, broads, and bullshit. If you got all that, what else do you need?\"-Harry Caray

Don\'t cry over spilled milk., It could have been Whiskey.-Me

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.-George Washington

Offline Kurt Angle

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« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2003, 01:28:13 PM »
I guess to some people the truth hurts.

 

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