Powell\'s key points on Iraq

Originally posted by Coredweller
Before you reply to me again, why don\'t you take the first step of actually reading what I wrote.  I know it sounds crazy, but humor me.  :rolleyes:

I never once said Saddam has not violated the UN Resolution.  I said I wanted to see the proof of it.  I want to see the evidence so that I can fully accept and endorse this war.  In a court of law we can\'t convict someone of murder simply because "we know he did it."  We have to build a case and display the evidence.  It\'s simply a formality that will ensure our cohesiveness and support from the rest of the world.  What\'s so bad about that?  I really really want you to tell me what\'s so bad about that.  You can say it\'s as clear as the nose on my face, but that is still not proof.  

Look at ooseven\'s breakdown of the Powell speech, and explain to me how that\'s hard evidence.  I fully believe that our US government has hard evidence that they\'re withholding, and I want to see it.

Why should we let the UN (France and Germany in particular) dictate our foreign policy or what we perceive as a legitimate threat to the security of our country?  That is the real question here - not world opinion.  

He has violated UN Resolutions by kicking the inspectors out in 1998 alone.  Is that not proof enough?  He is also hampering current inspections and Blix has been urging them to "cooperate" more, but they will not.  Its like beating a dead horse.  

I am positive as well that government is withholding information and they should.  I think it is quite ridiculous to expect our government to lay everything out just to satisfy a few skeptical citizens.  By doing so, they jeapordize our intelligence network and technology, not to mention the possibility of putting our troops in danger.  It is not our right to know everything the top officials in our government know.  What they presented to the UN was more than enough to prove Saddam is playing games with the UN.

Originally posted by GigaShadow

I am positive as well that government is withholding information and they should.  I think it is quite ridiculous to expect our government to lay everything out just to satisfy a few skeptical citizens.  By doing so, they jeapordize our intelligence network and technology, not to mention the possibility of putting our troops in danger.  It is not our right to know everything the top officials in our government know.  What they presented to the UN was more than enough to prove Saddam is playing games with the UN.

Withholding info ?

then why don\'t they pass on the infomation to the UN weapon inspectors, instead of just sitting on it and saying.

"We know he\'s Fooking with us..but we must protect our sources"

if the inteligence sources are soo important then why don\'t they extract the imformants and then publish the damming info.

i am sorry for being skeptical

but from the looks of things so far both GWB and BLIAR

have Jack and his twin Brother S$%T when it comes to enough evidence to GO TO WAR.

ooseven:  Oh god please don\'t tell me that you get Judge Judy in Scotland!     I can see why you must think all americans are idiots!  

Originally posted by ooseven


Withholding info ?

then why don\'t they pass on the infomation to the UN weapon inspectors, instead of just sitting on it and saying.

"We know he\'s Fooking with us..but we must protect our sources"

if the inteligence sources are soo important then why don\'t they extract the imformants and then publish the damming info.

i am sorry for being skeptical

but from the looks of things so far both GWB and BLIAR

have Jack and his twin Brother S$%T when it comes to enough evidence to GO TO WAR.

You wouldn\'t believe it anyway... :rolleyes:

Besides those sources need to stay where they are.  The rebuttals to Powell\'s speech are getting more absurd with each post. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Coredweller
ooseven:  Oh god please don\'t tell me that you get Judge Judy in Scotland!     I can see why you must think all americans are idiots!  

yeah we do but they only put it on late at night i.e. After 3pm ..for all the insomniacs to fall asleep to.

anyway they are now saying Analysts that is and not the Iraqis , is that the phone conversations were miss translated, and in fact could just be that they where talking about normal procedures.

/me is watching BBC news 24 the now.

Originally posted by GigaShadow


You wouldn\'t believe it anyway... :rolleyes:

i wouldent be so sure of that if i was you.

if and ONLY if we have possitive proof that he is developing WoMD and that he plans to use them.

Then we SHOULD take action.

but i for one do NOT believe thatwe should go to war over

17 Empty OLD shells
300 page document
& Badly written PowerPoint presentation with piss poor Surveillance pictures and a miss translated phone tap

[sarcastic mode]
i mean i am sure everyone will be happy that both US & UK blood is spilled over such "Strong evidence":rolleyes: :rolleyes:.
[/sarcastic mode]

Originally posted by ooseven


yeah we do but they only put it on late at night i.e. After 3pm ..for all the insomniacs to fall asleep to.

anyway they are now saying Analysts that is and not the Iraqis , is that the phone conversations were miss translated, and in fact could just be that they where talking about normal procedures.

/me is watching BBC news 24 the now.

Getting desperate for excuses I see... :rolleyes:

Originally posted by GigaShadow


Getting desperate for excuses I see... :rolleyes:

No.. it was the Analysts (who is British and works for the BBC)words

he was in the studio and said he was shocked that the Iraqi\'s (who are doing their responce the now) didn\'t even highlited the miss translation.


and as for the evidence if your so pro war.

will you have it on your consience if Both British and American Soldiers DIE over the piss poor evidence that has been out line in my previous post.

Until they can actualy provide SOLID EVIDENCE...I for one don\'t want THIS "WAR" in my name.

Badly written PowerPoint presentation with piss poor Surveillance pictures and a miss translated phone tap

Very few people, I haven\'t heard any, say that the presentation was poor. As a matter of fact, just the opposite. Some of our (U.S.) extra, extra left wing pols have said just the opposite.

Ace

ooseven, can you please stop with the giant text?  You can keep making your arguments, but the text is getting annoying.

Don\'t worry, the victory will be mostly in our name anyway.

Ace

You\'ve got to understand my perspective, Giga.  The entire Vietnam war was started on a ruse that the USS Maddox was attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin.  Turns out later "oh yeah, I guess that never actually happened."  Our nation\'s credibility is not what it used to be.

I\'m not implying anything, just stating the obvious.  In ordinary situations, it\'s ok for our intelligence agencies to conceal everything and stonewall the world and our own citizens  in the name of national security and protecting their assets.  At some point we have to acknowledge that this behaviour can be a threat to our national security as well.  We are in an EXTRAORDINARY situation now.  It\'s critical that we build a world consensus and get some support from around the globe for this military enterprise we\'re embarking on.  If not, we\'re risking making ourselves the target for waves of terrorist attacks unlike anything before.  

If we have to trash some of the CIA\'s information conduits to display our proof against Iraq, then in this case it\'s worth it.

Originally posted by Ace
Don\'t worry, the victory will be mostly in our name anyway.

Ace

Victory ?

Yes its plan to see that  we will win, but I wouldn’t call it a victory.

Remember we aren’t dealing with repelling a invasion force from a small country, we are dealing with a brutal dictatorship who has had the past 4 years to prepare for any act of aggression.

Already Iraqi forces are digging in heavily populated areas which will reduce or limit the possibility of Air strikes and from the looks of things they won’t go quietly.
Urban fighting is said to be the most brutal forms imaginable, and our forces will have to take each city block by block.

Another thing is that like an animal a country like this is even more dangerous in the throws of “death” I wouldn’t be surprised if Saddam would use by any means to make our (in your words Victory) all the more sourer.

And finally this action will only cripple the war on terrorism as the out rage among the Islamic communities around the world will only breed more potential Suicide “bombers”  

Remember nearly all of the hi jackers on 9/11 were Middle class well educated Saudi Nationals.

After another war on Iraq , imagine how many more will be recruited into al Qaeda

p.s. to Ryu

point taken Buddy I won’t do it again, but could of you of PM me no one ever PM’s me

I understand your mistrust and the Vietnam example is a valid one.  If 9/11 wouldn\'t have happened I most likely wouldn\'t feel as passionate about this situation as I do.

I also see another madman wanting to gain nuclear weapons so he can do as he pleases just like what is going on in N. Korea.  This is preventative and that is why I am in favor of it.

I also agree with those on this board that think we should really be worrying about N. Korea as they are really becoming a bigger threat than first realized, but as I said before - get Saddam and his party out of power and avoid another Korean situation.

Originally posted by GigaShadow
I understand your mistrust and the Vietnam example is a valid one.  If 9/11 wouldn\'t have happened I most likely wouldn\'t feel as passionate about his situation as I do.

I also see another madman wanting to gain nuclear weapons so he can do as he pleases just like what is going on in N. Korea.  This is preventative and that is why I am in favor of it.

I also agree with those on this board that think we should really be worrying about N. Korea as they are really becoming a bigger threat than first realized, but as I said before - get Saddam and his party out of power and avoid another Korean situation.

the problem is that Iraq has nothing to do with the events of 9/11

but on the other hand our so called firend in the gulf Saudi Arabia not only gave us Bin Laden , but about 90 % of the Hi Jackers too.

Remember the one thing Bin Laden would love to see is an Iraq in chaos after another war, and enough resentment to build on Islamic Extremism and produce a new Hard line Islamic Iraq.