Everyone has been TOO harsh on MGS2:Substance

After getting Devil May Cry 2 and Metal Gear Solid 2:Substance last week, i was hearing some harsh stuff said about both games so was expecting them to be awful although I don\'t care what reviewers say cos these days if it ain\'t Vice City or Halo then it\'s s**t according to those small minded biased...oh well you get the point...

I\'ve especially heard the same old "Substance is crap cos it\'s just Sons Of Liberty repackaged with Snake on a Skateboard and yet another Making of Dvd (ahem - ps2 exclusives)"

at first I was suprised with what Konami have offered us because there is a lot to play through, and yes I know that you have to play through the same missions with each character, but not many games offer this challenge and have this amount of longevity.

Bottom line, the evolution skateboarding engine sucks big time, I\'ve played it for ages to actually get used to it, and it feels sloppy and uncomfortable.(note to Konami - next time the only "Evolution" game you should develop is the soccer,cos you are awesome at that series, and I\'m a big fan).

The Snake tales are quite hard yet very fun to play and the only problem is that they are set on the same locations as SOLs but still fun to play

the VR Missions are fantastic and i love the fact that they get harder and harder as you get better and better.

The Documents dvd is twice as good as the "making of" dvd that came with Sons of Liberty.

So all i gotta say, is it doesn\'t deserve the harsh remarks cos if everybody just went into it deeper and just stopped getting their opinions after reading the back of the case, then it would have good reviews.

It\'s not perfect, and it IS expensive but like Dr Pepper "To try it is to love it" and as the advert says "It\'s so misunderstood"

Look, you hate it, you hate it, thats fair enough, but come on if you had the patience to sit down and get into it, like you did with SOL and you do when you spend hours playing The Sims, then you\'d ALL maybe enjoy it.

Maybe just knock it down to £25-£30 and it would sell a lot more. PERIOD

:nut:

:o  Ughh.. well the point is.... at it\'s core, Substance still IS MGS2 SOL with all it\'s flaws (and qualities of course).
We\'re talking \'bout pretty boygirl Raiden, his annoying gf Rose and of course the outlandish anime story which chopped the gameplay.
Ppl who defend the game on gameplay merits should quiet down also, becuz it\'s become quite dated. Splinter Cell REALLY redefined the Stealth-game genre and raised the bar very high.
Splinter Cell offers that wonderfull 360 degrees camera and Sam Fischer\'s character moves are actually designed with movement within 3D space. Snake\'s moves are still all made from it\'s 2D topdown roots. Sure he can hang off ledges and drop down, but that could be done in topdown 2D as well. The character is still \'nailed\' to the floor. Kojima really needs to stop, cut \'n pasting this aging formula, wrapping it in new \'packaging\' (read ; better looking graphX, new versions etc). So, after Splinter Cell, MGS3 has WHOLE lot to live up to imho. If he argues something like that can\'t be done on PS2 he\'s already proven wrong ; see Splinter Cell on PS2 which is an excellent custom made port of the Xbox original hit. But we\'ll see, becuz Kojima himself stated he really admires Splinter Cell himself (it is said he really loves playing it), and I hope he draws some lessons outta that.  BTW, why doesn\'t this forum has a Sam Fischer smilie yet ?

Splinter Cell IS awesome and has set new standards in stealth games but it was Kojima who started this new Stealth genre and Ubi Soft have taken it to a (no pun intended) new level.
I\'m hurt that a lot of people have jumped onto the Splinter Cell bandwagon and will jump back on to Konami\'s when or IF Kojima directs the next Metal Gear Solid game, should they develop it anytime soon.

Yeah Raiden sucks big time and he was only put in there so Pliskin could tell his story and you could see the other side to Snake, but in terms of gameplay, if it ain\'t broken then why fix it...

Why was everybody expecting Substance to be some kind of Mini Metal Gear Solid 3?
Kojima himself said that he wanted to do this with Sons of Liberty but due to pressure from Konami and time restraints they released SOL as it was and then started development on ZOE2 and Substance...

No doubting Splinter Cell is a whole new game and does do a lot that MGS2 didn\'t but at the end of the day you have to enjoy both, cause I for one am doing...and won\'t be a sheep, and jump one companys bandwagon...

I just hope they don\'t do the whole Vice City/Getaway topic again but with Substance/Cell

Well, sure Kojima started it all. :cool:  But you have to keep in mind that he\'s KCEJ\'s CEO since MGS2 (I believe) so, besides
being the producer of KCEJ games, he is also the dude making
the companies\' commercial decisions. Up until now some ppl have
jokingly renamed the MGS series to \'Milking Gear Solid\'. That\'s a
bit harsh indeed, but what do you expect ? We now have MGS2 SOL plus \'Making of DVD\',The Document of MGS2 SOL, various
\'Complete MGS2 packs\' and now MGS Substance on all, yes all
platforms including that shoddy pc version. There\'s some logic in that indeed...
About ppl\'s expectations on Substance ; they were totally valid becuz, when it got announced Kojima led us to believe we could play Snake during the BigShell part of MGS2 SOL. It never came true. Once again he deceived us. Now we have Snake Tales which are totally \'on themselves\' only using the Big Shell as a convenient background material. Ppl expected to play Snake while Raiden was defusing bombs and holding hands with Emma.
About gameplay ; \'why fix if it ain\'t broken ?\' Well sometimes something totally new comes around (Splinter Cell) which sets new standards as a better \'mold\'. So I say ; Kojima has to \'break\' the MGS gameplay to build it up again into something refreshing, a new mold. Look at the ppl at Sony who created Ico (which happens to be, up until this day, my all time favourite videogame)
For the sequel, they\'re hiring an almost completely new/fresh staff. Now that\'s a good start to keep things \'fresh\'. :cool:

[Bobs_Hardware]

I would love to see Kojima take elements from Splinter Cell\'s gameplay  (well, Theif\'s gameplay).  Add the lighting, and the ability to hand from virtually any pipes etc. and you\'ve got yourself a winner.  For the most part, I love MGS2\'s gameplay.  Basic stealth (avoid detection), with great action (the AI really adds to the gameplay).

MGS2 for me anytime. Splinter Cell sucks.

^^^

They both have their strong points.

Originally posted by Paul
MGS2 for me anytime. Splinter Cell sucks.

Im glad to see somebody (that has some sense) that thinks this way. I wish i could say the same. I do love mgs2, but i have never played SC. Doesnt mean Metal gear sux, and yes i think a lot of people are pretty harsh on the game but meh. To each his own.

It kinda shocks me there are ppl who feel so \'hurt\' just becuz their beloved MGS2 got some criticism :surprised  Besides all the
stuff I posted above, I think MGS2 and SplinterCell can coexist
perfectly next to eachother becuz they\'re sooo different. I just don\'t understand why those same ppl wonn\'t acknowledge a
fresh new game in the genre ( SplinterCell) when they see one. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Knotter8
It kinda shocks me there are ppl who feel so \'hurt\' just becuz their beloved MGS2 got some criticism :surprised  Besides all the
stuff I posted above, I think MGS2 and SplinterCell can coexist
perfectly next to eachother becuz they\'re sooo different. I just don\'t understand why those same ppl wonn\'t acknowledge a
fresh new game in the genre ( SplinterCell) when they see one. :rolleyes:

good point, I can live with both, and I\'m not bitching and moaning just cos ppl slag off MGS2,no no no,what I\'m saying is I\'m sick of a lot of people jumping onto the Splinter Cell bandwagon then as soon as MSG3 is released,the SC fans will then come crawling back to Konami.

I love and own both games as they both are refreshing and groundbreaking in their own ways but I\'m always hearing "SC is better than MGS2 this,and SC is better than MGS2 that"

everyone is entitled to their opinions and I\'ve read sum kick ass points made on this topic, but to the people who DID slag off MGS2 just cos Splinter Cell "does it better" then come crawling back as soon as the ball goes back into Konamis court, then I don\'t want to hear it.

There are a lot of people here who like both or have good opinions (knotter8,The Hurricane,Bobs Hardware,Lord Nicon) but  I\'d suggest to anybody who hasn\'t played the "add-on" Substance, rent it or buy it, give it a try as well as Splinter Cell.