For those that have seen the matrix reloaded (no spoilers)

[Living-In-Clip]

I can\'t help it. I\'m like MM, when it comes to movie\'s. The Matrix was decent - but it wasn\'t really good cinema and Reloaded had really very few redeeming factors. It wasn\'t even a good popcorn flick.


The "Matrix plot" is a bunch of sub-plots or rip-off\'s from other films. There is hardly anything original about The Matrix. \'cept for special effects.

Originally posted by GmanJoe
I still like the idea that Persephone is an Intuitive Program and this gave her the curiosity about human emotions (in this case love)

Now read what the Architect said:

"Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche"

To investigate certian aspects of the human psyche. If that doesn\'t scream Persephone I dont know what does. Certian aspects... love. Neo, the anomoly, the culmination of the bug, is driven by what?

Love.

True. It does resemble something she might be behind but its confirmed that the oracle was the one that filled that role. Damn monica bellucci is hot.

I can\'t help it. I\'m like MM, when it comes to movie\'s. The Matrix was decent - but it wasn\'t really good cinema and Reloaded had really very few redeeming factors. It wasn\'t even a good popcorn flick.

I dont know what to say to this. I have mixed emotions but opinions are nobodys but ours i guess. I liked it. Wasnt the greatest, but it is buyable for me. Finish off the trilogy when revolutions comes out.

[GmanJoe]

Originally posted by Lord Nicon

True. It does resemble something she might be behind but its confirmed that the oracle was the one that filled that role. Damn monica bellucci is hot.

Confirmed? Hells no.


And I quote:

The Architect - The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is as apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being, thus I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

Neo - The Oracle.

The Architect - Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.

The Architect CLEARLY insinuates that it\'s NOT the Oracle.

I be smrt.

I just watched it about 10 hours ago and it was AWESOME!  the ending left me hanging......I watched the trailer at the end and went home and found it on the net and Downloaded it.  The Protector of the Oracle seems to have a bigger role in Revolutions. All the Neo\'s in the TV screens reactions were pretty funny.

:hat:ScottyJ:hat:

Originally posted by GmanJoe


Confirmed? Hells no.


And I quote:



The Architect CLEARLY insinuates that it\'s NOT the Oracle.

I be smrt.

please read this thread from the beginning, maybe then you\'ll understand! :rolleyes:

edit: forget what I said, that was a different thread. The reason why he said:"please", was because he hardly thinks of her as an oracle.

[GmanJoe]

He hardly thinks of Persephone as the Oracle? Is that what you thought Neo was saying and the Architect disagreed by saying "Please"?

Read my post a few more times. Then you\'ll understand.

nono, what I meant was: the architect responds with: "please", because he doesn\'t think of \'the oracle\' as being an oracle

[GmanJoe]

The Architect - If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

Neo - The Oracle.

The Architect - Please.

*****************

Neo thought the Oracle was the mother. The Architect seems to disagree.

indeed! but the real question is:What does he disagree on?
you think he disagrees on the fact that the oracle is the \'mother\'
but I think he disagrees on calling the oracle......the oracle, because it is not an oracle, but merely a computer program (contrarely to what morpheus believed)

Just got home from the movie. It was OK, nothing mindblowing. I thought the fight scenes were very well done, but it kinda sucked always having to see Neo all the time.

Wish those twins didn\'t die so quick (Morpheus blew them up right?)... They were badass, they sorta reminded me of Nightcrawler in X2.

The Revolutions trailer at the end sucked IMO. It was pretty much of the same repetitive Neo vs. Smith crap, but I can understand, maybe they don\'t want to give too much out.

Oh yeah, Full Throttle trailer was the best....

[GmanJoe]

Originally posted by politiepet
indeed! but the real question is:What does he disagree on?
you think he disagrees on the fact that the oracle is the \'mother\'

Originally posted by GmanJoe
The Architect - If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

Neo - The Oracle.

The Architect - Please.

*****************

Neo thought the Oracle was the mother. The Architect seems to disagree.

Two quotes. That way you see it.

I\'m not saying you\'re wrong, but it\'s just one possibility.

I think he meant something else when he said: please

I\'ll try to explain again (sigh):

The Architect - If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

Neo - The Oracle.

The Architect - Please.

now, what do we see here....:
neo suggests, the mother is the oracle, to which the architect replies with: please. although he obviously disagrees with neo, he does not say that the oracle is not the mother.
in my opinion all he disagrees on is that the oracle should be called oracle, because his opinion is that it isn\'t an oracle.

so when he says "please" he meant to say: I wouldn\'t want to call her an oracle, because she is incapable of forseeing the future!

[GmanJoe]

"Cursing in French - it\'s like wiping your ass with SILK!"

FUNNIEST LINE EVAR!

Originally posted by QuDDus


I never even mentioned the special effects. Yes they where kick ass, but I feel that the matrix has a good story.  Spider man was all special effects, but the content was horrible and it sucked.

I like the matrix plot that is why I enjoy it.

The story in the second was mind numbing!  It was 2 hours of action and fluff.  I can\'t believe I\'m reading this.

i start reading this thread because i didnt understand much the story myself (seen it once). i\'ve looked other message boards that would have a simmilar thread, and here something interesting that was posted, totally in the line of ryu\'s ideas

First off I agree with people who belive there are 2 matrixes. It fits with what the architect says and what neo does at the end of the movie. Here is why.

The architectt babbles on about perfection and control and that no matter how good his formulas were 1% of the humans still rejected his 1999 matrix. So he engineered the oracle and the Zion matrix. The oracle serves her role by steering the non belivers into the Zion matrix, something their minds will accept.

Still, that system is not perfect either and Neo is the culmination of that imperfection, someone who rejects both matrixes (although we dont see this until the end). But even Neo has to be controled, the machines are really big on control, but the only control the architect can come up with is choice. You see the many choices Neo can make on the monitors of the Architect\'s room. Only at the end when Neo choses to save Trinity and doom humanity do all the screens agree. There is only one path, Neo\'s choice is easy because he doesn\'t belive "in all that fate crap."

In the next few scenes that follow the point is really hammered home incase you missed it in the architect\'s speech. Neo\'s mind is working itself around everything it has learned, as it frees itself he is even less bound by the rules of the 1999 matrix. He catches trinity, alters fate as presented in his dreams and brings her back from the dead. A cool, if not blunt exposition of his newfound enlightenment (and as cool as this was I think it is just a prelude of things to come when agent smith and neo are god figures in the 1999 matrix).

Lastly back in "the real world" the sentinels arive and the lead-in to Revolutions begins. Neo can feel the sentinels like he can feel agents, he begins to realize fully the implications of what the architect said and stops the sentinels like he would bullets in the 1999 matrix. After this Neo to slip into a coma, possibly because he awakes in the real real world and leaves all of his digital self behind but I kind of doubt it. If the machines are going to have 2 layers of control why not 10, why not 10,000. I kind of think Neo and Agent Smith are going to be able to move freely between the 2 matrixes now that they know they exist.

Now, Agent Smith, he is actually my favorite character. Agent Smith in this movie has been set free, exactly like he says. Smith is a program, written to operate in a rule based system. Some of these rules are key to the operation of that system, rules like physics. Rules that say when you shoot someone 5 times in the chest at point blank range with a Desert Eagle they will die and when someone is dead they cannot come back to life. These rules were shattered right in front of his eyes when Neo realized he was the one at the end of The Matrix.

Agent Smith\'s freedom comes when Neo destroys him. At that point Smith knows he should be deleted, he has been destroyed and the rules say its deletion time. But Smith knows the rules can be broken now so he doesn\'t need to be deleted if he doesn\'t want to. But why would he want to stick around? ... To destroy Neo. So Smith re-enters the matrix and learns new things as he tests the rules.

The next revalation for Smith comes when he finds he can leave the 1999 matrix. That shouldn\'t be possible but since he knows the rules dont mean anything he tries, and succeeds (further proof of a Zion matrix). The revelation that there are at least 2 layers to the matrix doesn\'t mean much to Smith however because he only has 1 purpose, kill Neo.

So in the end when you distill down the movie you get this:

Neo embodies Choice.
Trinity, Love.
Morpheus, Fate.
The Oracle, Knowledge.
Agent Smith, Purpose.
The Architect, the impossible quest for perfection.
There are at least 2 matrixes.

What I see coming in Revolutions:

-Neo see\'s the Zion matrix for what it is.
-Neo and Agent Smith learn to move freely from one matrix to the other.
-Neo and Agent Smith battle in the 1999 matrix with god like powers.
-Humanity has to make a choice: "what is real? what if there is just another matrix under this one? where do we stop?"
-They choose to cast the machines out of the Zion matrix and make it their own.

that movie was excelent