In the US, your presidential vote doesn\'t count.

Does anyone else get really disenfranchised when you think about that?

Maybe people just don\'t know how the system works. I like to think that is the reason no one does anything. I don\'t want to believe that no one cares or even worse there is nothing we can do about it.

This has nothing to do with Gore losing to Bush after winning the majority of the people\'s vote; but it has everything to do with the people having little to NO power to change the system.

I just wanted to reach out and see how other people feel about our governmental system. Does anyone think it is good/great? I REALLY want to hear the opinions of those people.

the electorial college votes for the president, not the peolpe

the people\'s vote means squat, BUT it influences who is in the electorial college, therefore affecting who becomes president

To add to what mm said, in a round about way your vote does count as the electoral vote of your state 99 percent of the time follows the popular vote the state.  I think there have been a few cases in US elections where the electorate of a state has not followed the popular vote.  

Members of the electoral college can pretty much do what they want and in some instances electorates of the same state have split their vote so all the votes from that state didn\'t go to one candidate.  However, the standard proceedure is to give all of the electoral votes from your state to the winner of the popular vote in said state.

The electoral college is an outdated relic.  The people should directly elect our president like we do for nearly every other elected office.

It sucks that not just anybody can run for president.  You gotta have huge coffers of money and you gotta have the connections.  We\'ll never see someone from middle/lower class america winning the presidental election.  Seems to me the issues don\'t matter at all anymore (not that they ever did).

Nixon was from lower/middle class America.

So he was a middle class blue collar worker when he ran for president?  I don\'t think so

Originally posted by GigaShadow
To add to what mm said, in a round about way your vote does count as the electoral vote of your state 99 percent of the time follows the popular vote the state.  I think there have been a few cases in US elections where the electorate of a state has not followed the popular vote.

Not true. Your vote counts in the elections before the presidential election (primaries, etc.) because you are voting for the electoral college candidates. When you put in your vote for the republican/democrat/green party candidate the vote is actually to give that party the ability to put their electoral candidates in place.

So if a Republican wins the Massachusetts primary then the 14 electoral votes from Massachusetts are republican. The people\'s votes on election night don\'t mean squat. Even if the state changed their mind and the majority of the people voted Democrat instead the electoral college will still vote Republican.

The system is designed to keep 3rd parties out and take the power away from the populous.

Gore COULD HAVE gone to congress and said, "I got the popular vote, and I still lost. This system is outdated and we must get rid of it now."; but he didn\'t becauise he knows that next time it may go in the Democrats favor and removing it will destroy their grip on the legislative, executive, and judicial branches of power.

If you had any idea as to how the electoral college worked you would recant that statement Gohan.  Electoral votes follow the popular vote except in extreme circumstances.  Electoral votes are not partisan based - I ask you to cite one example of this.  

Gore would have looked like even more of a loser had he gone before Congress as they would have ignored his request.

Jbean, my point is he rose through the political system from humble beginnings.  I wouldn\'t want John Doe the factory worker being President as he is no where near qualified to run this country.  There are many presidents, including Clinton who grew up in less than perfect economic environments and made something of themselves.  Yes it takes money, but one must put in their dues to get that support aka money.  Anyone can be president as long as you have the supporters.

Originally posted by GigaShadow
If you had any idea as to how the electoral college worked you would recant that statement Gohan.  Electoral votes follow the popular vote except in extreme circumstances.  Electoral votes are not partisan based - I ask you to cite one example of this.

You DEFINATELY don\'t know how the electoral college works. They ARE partisan based.

- Every party is supposed to have a rally so many days before the primaries.
- At the rally they present their selection of electoral college members to represent them in the presidential election. (Massachusetts = 14)
- In the primaries they put the candidates name on the ballot in place of the electoral college nominees. So when you vote on your candidate you are really voting for his party\'s electoral college members.
- Its a "winner take all" system so if the Republicans get 40% of the vote, the Dems get 30%, and so on. The republicans get ALL of the electoral college in that state. Which is why the system remains two party based. The Green/Reform parties could get 25+% of the vote in every state and never get one electoral college vote.
- The presidential election is pretty much a formality. There is a reason why the "magic number" on election night is 278. For 50%+1 of the electoral votes and not X million people\'s votes.
- The electoral college could vote however they wanted but they are partisan based so 9.9999 times out of 10 they will vote along party lines.

I see your point Gigashadow, but i\'d like to see someone who isn\'t a career politician become president.  Somebody who stands for what is right, instead of letting money from special interest groups cloud their vision.  I know it\'s impractical and not gonna happen any time soon.

I\'m so for term limits for congress.  There are so many people in the Senate that have been there for way too long.

Originally posted by Gohan
You DEFINATELY don\'t know how the electoral college works. They ARE partisan based.

- Every party is supposed to have a rally so many days before the primaries.
- At the rally they present their selection of electoral college members to represent them in the presidential election. (Massachusetts = 14)
- In the primaries they put the candidates name on the ballot in place of the electoral college nominees. So when you vote on your candidate you are really voting for his party\'s electoral college members.
- Its a "winner take all" system so if the Republicans get 40% of the vote, the Dems get 30%, and so on. The republicans get ALL of the electoral college in that state. Which is why the system remains two party based. The Green/Reform parties could get 25+% of the vote in every state and never get one electoral college vote.
- The presidential election is pretty much a formality. There is a reason why the "magic number" on election night is 278. For 50%+1 of the electoral votes and not X million people\'s votes.
- The electoral college could vote however they wanted but they are partisan based so 9.9999 times out of 10 they will vote along party lines.

Yes it is winner takes all as it should be.  That is what I have been saying  :rolleyes:

So in essence the electoral college does work because it goes along the lines of the popular vote.  If a certain candidate wins the popular vote in the state they get the electoral votes.  

BTW the Green Party will never gain broad appeal :rolleyes:

Why do Greenies always use themselves as an example - that is funny considering that they are a fringe party.

Originally posted by GigaShadow
Yes it is winner takes all as it should be.  That is what I have been saying  :rolleyes:

So in essence the electoral college does work because it goes along the lines of the popular vote.  If a certain candidate wins the popular vote in the state they get the electoral votes.  

BTW the Green Party will never gain broad appeal :rolleyes:

Why do Greenies always use themselves as an example - that is funny considering that they are a fringe party.

No that is NOT what you said. You are talking about on that first tuesday in November when the actual election occurs. The popular vote has NOTHING to do with the electoral college votes.

The "winner takes all" has to do with the primaries. Meaning that if the GOP wins the primaries then the Electoral College members from that state are all REPUBLICAN CHOSEN members of the electoral college.

You do know that they have new a Electoral College every 4 years right? Its not the same group of people every year.

I\'m not a "greenie". I just used them as an example because they were the first to come to mind.

BTW, Why do all conservatives/liberals make every political discussion partisan based? Its as if anyone that disagrees with you is a stupid tree-hugging liberal or redneck conservative. Why can\'t it just be as discussion about what is right for the people? Assclowns.

Originally posted by JBean
I\'d like to see someone who isn\'t a career politician become president.

I\'m so for term limits for congress.  There are so many people in the Senate that have been there for way too long.

EXACTLY!!

What I hate is that you need the people who are ruining the government to regulate themselves and you KNOW that will never happen.

Originally posted by Gohan
No that is NOT what you said. You are talking about on that first tuesday in November when the actual election occurs. The popular vote has NOTHING to do with the electoral college votes.

The "winner takes all" has to do with the primaries. Meaning that if the GOP wins the primaries then the Electoral College members from that state are all REPUBLICAN CHOSEN members of the electoral college.

You do know that they have new a Electoral College every 4 years right? Its not the same group of people every year.

I\'m not a "greenie". I just used them as an example because they were the first to come to mind.

BTW, Why do all conservatives/liberals make every political discussion partisan based? Its as if anyone that disagrees with you is a stupid tree-hugging liberal or redneck conservative. Why can\'t it just be as discussion about what is right for the people? Assclowns.

Gohan if you carefully read what you say then you are saying that the Presidential election is already determined before the actual election.  It doesn\'t matter what party the electorates belong to as they vote the way of the popular in almost all circumstances whether the popular vote is for a Republican or a Democrat.  What do electorates have to do with the primaries?  

I can\'t understand why you believe that just because an electorate is a Dem he will cast his electoral vote for the Democratic candidate.  Once again the popular vote does have a very heavy influence on the electoral vote of each state.  Why do you think the Florida popular vote was so damn important?  Because the winner got all the electoral votes.  If Gore would have won the popular vote in Florida he would have been President.  Don\'t try and say the popular vote doesn\'t matter as that is a clear example of your vote counting.

Originally posted by GigaShadow
Gohan if you carefully read what you say then you are saying that the Presidential election is already determined before the actual election.  It doesn\'t matter what party the electorates belong to as they vote the way of the popular in almost all circumstances whether the popular vote is for a Republican or a Democrat.  What do electorates have to do with the primaries?

You are right I\'m wrong about the first point. However, the only reason it seems like the electorates vote the way of the popular vote is because they are all pledged to that political candidate. It is a completely different group of people voting in each state depending on who gets the higher percentage of votes. Which in essence is an unfair system that does not represent the vote of the public at large. If a candidate wins a state with 30% of the vote that means 70% of the people did NOT want that candidate. A more fair(and logical) alternative(besides getting rid of the electoral college all together) would be to give every state their electoral candidates based on their percentage of the vote. If the GOP won 40% of the vote then they would get 40% of their specially chosen electorates in place. The same would go for the Dems 30% and the other parties combined 30%.

But that would never fly because god forbid a 3rd party get a major percentage of the vote.

Originally posted by GigaShadow
I can\'t understand why you believe that just because an electorate is a Dem he will cast his electoral vote for the Democratic candidate.

Because he was selected by the dems to vote for the dem candidate. Its not like it is everyday people off the street who vote however they feel. They were selected for the explicit purpose of voting for the candidate they pledged to vote for.