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Author Topic: Religion thread type-R  (Read 6505 times)

Offline SwifDi
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Religion thread type-R
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2003, 07:59:25 PM »
I\'ve always believed in a higher power, even before I really knew who God was. The idea of space just "being here" was too weak of a philosophy for me. The idea of "life" also seemed more significant than, "live and die, the end". I guess that what it truly comes down, one\'s philosophical views on life. You can view it as something beautiful, or a scientific cycle.

Offline SER
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Religion thread type-R
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2003, 08:16:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Spudz
Erm, well you  beat me to it omen, I was gonna make a thread like this but decided not to.

Anyway; my idea of religion is simple..........



Biggest pile of dogpoo ever!

Think about the truth? What is truth? You don\'t know what you are talking about till you go to college and take philosophy. :laughing:

Offline Phil
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Religion thread type-R
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2003, 08:36:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by alliswell
Truly sad...and after pulling away from God so much people actually wonder why there is so much suffering in the world...


Actually during the times of some the most religious fervor (The middle ages), there was a lot of suffering.  That\'s a hell of a broad statement alliswell.
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Offline Deadly Hamster
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Religion thread type-R
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2003, 08:37:23 PM »
Quote
You can view it as something beautiful, or a scientific cycle.


A scientific cycle can be beautiful, beauty of course is in the eye of the beholder... on some levels atleast.

The world is very complex, so is the universe.  Life is very confusing, but we do have Math and Science, I mean it\'s all very simple. 1+1=2 and that cannot be changed.  

Gravity is constant, so a river cannot split.

Adam and eve "appearing":
Matter cannot appear....
Which creates the only thing that has any crediblity to a "God" argument, how did the universe begin, if matter cannot appear.

Now this would leave two possibilities:
1. Matter has always been.
2. Matter was created.

1. if matter has always been, there is no "Beginning" and no "End" just changes. There is no possible way to understand this untill we figure out exactly what causes the universe to act the way it does.

2. If matter was created, it would have to be created by "something" now this could be a natural occourance that has yet to be understood, or perhaps some sort of higher power.

So, thats basically my input.... None of us have the absolute truth, but I believe  that everything happens because it has to, and that everything eventualy comes down to basic math...
It was a darkness all my own, a song played on the radio, It went straight to my heart - I carried it with me - until the darkness was gone.
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Offline SwifDi
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Religion thread type-R
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2003, 08:37:26 PM »
There\'s always suffering. Period.

Offline theomen
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Religion thread type-R
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2003, 08:46:05 PM »
Well here\'s my take on the subject.

I don\'t believe in a god, I do believe that Jesus was a cool guy that was unfortunetly sentenced to death from the second he was born thanks to people labeling him their savoir.  In my eye\'s the anglo religions have no more merit to them than Greek and Roman religions, which are now refered to as mythologie\'s because people think that they have been debunked and are of the past.  I guess Zeus was a figment of people\'s imaginations, while God is the real deal, it\'s a shame they wasted all those years worshiping greek dieties.

The idea of an ominipotent being is hard for me to swallow as it\'s a much to easily explained thing.  You ask any question and it can be answered by "god can do anything".  Also they never answer the questions about where he came from, why he\'s so powerful why would he create humans in his own image even when the human form is one of the least usefull and durable.  Wouldn\'t it have been easier just to plant the human brain in a sturdier more duriable platform?

As for organized religion....  It\'s a plague upon the Earth, if money is the root of all evil, then what the hell is organized religion?  More wars were started thanks to religion than money could ever claim responsibility for.  It\'s like in Dogma, it\'s better to have ideas than beliefs, ideas can be changed but people will die for beliefs.

I have a friend who has recently joined, what I think is basically a Christian Cult,  She flew over to Texas, is on a large compound where they only eat Oatmeal and chicken, wake up at 5am, run without eating first, run until they\'re boarder line hollucinating so that "they can be closer to jesus".  Then they spend their day in religion classes learning to be better soldiers of God, then finally get to sleep about 1-2am.  This kind of shit needs to be stopped, I know this is the extreme, but it\'s an example of how insane people can get over organized religion.

On another note.  Organized religion is far too often used as a crutch by the stupid and lazy.  I\'ve heard more people complain about things and then say "If Jesus want\'s the situation to change, he\'ll change it".  Have these people ever thought about doing something for themselves?  If God is real, he\'s a freak\'n diety, not a genie!

Ok, end of my rant.   In closing, don\'t believe in God but am cool with those who do and don\'t shove it down my throat, and I will show the same curtiousy.  Don\'t like organized religion, think it\'s an insult to what ever god is being worshipped and is used far too often as a tool to gain power, create viable excuses, provide meaning to an unmeaningful life, and fill emptiness.

Offline Deadly Hamster
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Religion thread type-R
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2003, 08:58:03 PM »
Yes, organized religion is bad....

I think the bibile is a good story somewhat.... What jesus is all about is true, to love your people, share food, share money etc.  

But he didn\'t have special powers, he was just a good man...

And the bibles rules and laws = BS.
and the old testimant shouldnt even exist in the christian bible.

Edit: (been thinking more)

What makes god, god? is it the ability to have super powers?

We are all god, super powers does not make something god. if god is god just because god can make and destroy, why worship him at all... what makes him better then any of us.

God flooded the earth killing most people, what happended to the forgiveness of sins?

Basically my point is, we are all what god is, I think people believe in god because they are afraid to believe in themselves...
« Last Edit: October 18, 2003, 09:10:27 PM by Deadly Hamster »
It was a darkness all my own, a song played on the radio, It went straight to my heart - I carried it with me - until the darkness was gone.
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Offline Halberto
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Religion thread type-R
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2003, 09:32:22 PM »
Here is what I want all religious people to ask themselves, especially alliswell(clowd :tongue:) :


How are you sure that your religion is the right one? The logic behind "blind faith" is dumb. It would be like spinning a bottle and saying "ok, I\'ll take this one" and convincing yourself it is true. If Jesus walked on water, how can you say Muhhamed\'s head didn\'t light on fire for days and float into heaven?

Offline SwifDi
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Religion thread type-R
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2003, 09:52:31 PM »
[size=20]FAITH[/size]

That answers any question.

I win.

Offline FatalXception
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Religion thread type-R
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2003, 10:02:19 PM »
^^ when you say it like that, it isn\'t FAITH.  It\'s BLIND FAITH.  Which is unfortunately why people do so much wrong with religion.  

I\'m agnostic - I have faith, but I don\'t follow or practice ANY religion.  I came to the determination that GOD exists, but he doesn\'t affect me or my life in any significant way, other than the fact that I owe the universe to him.
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Offline theomen
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Religion thread type-R
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2003, 10:04:45 PM »
here\'s another question;
Is God just the acullmination of the people\'s power of prayer?  If enough human minds were projecting in the same manner, could it manifest itself in what we may think of as God?

Offline Ryu
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Religion thread type-R
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2003, 10:14:18 PM »
I actually try to stay as far away from these threads as possible, but there are some things I just can\'t ignore being said here.

Quote
I mean, honestly; how can some guy seperate a body of water? Walk across water? Come back to life? All the things in the bible have never happened before. If "god" is so real, why doesnt he prove it? He has the power you say, why doesnt he enforce; Jesus said that God was real, they didnt believe him and were punished. Well why doesnt he do the same? And dont say some bullshit like "He doesnt want to\'\'.


The one thing God supposedly gave man, the greatest thing any of us have by definition, is choice -- free will.  Because we have this wonderful little thing, God doesn\'t need to do anymore then "he" has already supposedly done.  It\'s your choice to believe or not to believe.  It\'s your choice to rape 250 girls in 56 countries or to murder 458 people in 26 states, or to pick up a weapon and defend starving people from those who would keep them starving as a form of control, or to actually go out to a homeless shelter and hand your paycheck over to them and wish them a Merry Christmas or to simply work in an office day in and day out providing for yourself and your family.  It\'s your choice.  So long as it is, there\'s no reason for God to intervene or prove anything.  You choose to accept it or not.

Quote
Truly sad...and after pulling away from God so much people actually wonder why there is so much suffering in the world...


This was something that actually made me scream out "What the F*CK?!" when I read it at my desk.  By saying this, you have basically disqualified yourself and your opinion from this thread entirely (just as you have done before on multiple occasions).  This should be common f*cking knowledge, but more people have been killed in the name of religion then any other cause in all of human history.  Now, we\'ve killed a whole lot of people in the name of territory and freedom and civil liberties, in the hundreds of millions if I\'m not mistaken, but it doesn\'t even come CLOSE to the number of deaths directly related to religious beliefs.

One last thing, if we\'re going to get all accusatory about why there is suffering in the world, just be sure that you\'re blaming the right things for the right reasons because your attitude is exactly why the crusades were fought and look where that got everyone.  It can be argued that if England lost that "little" war, Islam, not Christianity, would be the biggest religion on Earth.

Quote
On another note. Organized religion is far too often used as a crutch by the stupid and lazy. I\'ve heard more people complain about things and then say "If Jesus want\'s the situation to change, he\'ll change it". Have these people ever thought about doing something for themselves? If God is real, he\'s a freak\'n diety, not a genie!


Here here!  Very well said, sir!  God is not a problem solver and God is not to blame for people being lazy.  It\'s not God\'s will if you weigh 400 pounds and stay home eating cheetos all day while watching Looney Toons.  It\'s not God\'s will if you get a flat tire in the middile of the highway on the way to some super important meeting and you don\'t have a spare in the trunk because you procrastinated picking it up for so long.  Life is tough, but it\'s definitely not God\'s fault.

I\'m 100% positive God is sick of all the f*cking pricks out there who yell out "Why God, Why?" when their mundane stupid little lives are interrupted by something so incredibly trivial.

Quote
How are you sure that your religion is the right one? The logic behind "blind faith" is dumb. It would be like spinning a bottle and saying "ok, I\'ll take this one" and convincing yourself it is true. If Jesus walked on water, how can you say Muhhamed\'s head didn\'t light on fire for days and float into heaven?


Reversing your arguement, how can you say having "faith" is dumb?  It takes a lot of guts to stand up for what you believe in, religous or otherwise -- ask anyone who lives or comes from Israel.  It\'s a choice and making that choice isn\'t dumb at all.
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Offline SirMystiq

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Religion thread type-R
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2003, 10:23:33 PM »
Dude\'s really calm down. It\'s just God...

I really don\'t see how you can be "free" yet Christians have so many "dont\'s". I agree that there are laws and rules that as a society must be followed in order to live productive lives. Such as the ban of murder, crime, among other rules pointed out by the Ten Commandments. I wasn\'t an Atheist all my life. I grew up as a Christian, I was raised with Christian believes and standards. As I grew older, I realized how business like the church was becoming. They wanted more money, money for "God". With the money all the people have given him, "God" must own a couple of mansions in heaven. The church tried to expand and try to affect other areas of this world. Government, education, rituals, laws, and other concepts they considered "wrong" and "sinful". Take the recent "homo-phobia", myself I don\'t agree with gays and lesbians, but truly it\'s their choice. It\'s their life. Christians have no right to ban them to "hell" because of their likes and dislikes. I don\'t think the church has to accept them within their ranks and system, but they shouldn\'t try to make them a whole different species. Besides, according to your beliefs, it was "God\'s" will that they become homosexuals. I have studied the ancient scriptures was past the recent ones. The Bible has a fairly interesting history. As I was studying the Latin Bible, I realized that the Bibles used in most churches today are nothing but a glimpse of what the Bible really was. Editing, additions, deleting, all made the way Christianity is thought today a complete opposite of what it was really meant to be. Being an Atheist, the Latin Bible really made me question my self, it speaks with so much truth. You have no idea what the Bible is until you pick the Latin Bible up. I enjoy reading that Bible not because I\'m suddenly not a "sinner". But because I consider the Bible to be a book of virtues and stories. Not a book meant to be worshiped and translated a million different ways, then try to make people see it your way.

My fields of study require me to get both sides of the story. Up to now, I have yet to meet somebody with the intelligence to argue or convince me that there is a thing called "God". I get replies such as "I don\'t have to convince you of anything, God is great and your going to hell if you don\'t believe.." etc..

Our church was a beautiful architectural wonder. It was beautiful. The interior was fantastic, the walls, the murals. But, is that what Christianity is all about? I see churches spending thousands of dollars on building new churches, taking trips to NeverEver land, spending money on all sorts of things. What happened to the true values of the church?

While attending service, the people around me where really into worshiping. "That\'s good" you say. It would have be, if it didn\'t feel so hollow. I sat there and it felt as if they were faking it. As if they were trying to force themselves to be viewed as a religious person. It really bothered me. I began to question my self when I had sex outside of marriage. I was about 19, and like many "real" Christians I had made the decision to wait for marriage. But, my girlfriend at the time was the most wonderful person. We had dated for about 3 years, and she was also saving herself for marriage. But that night, it just happened. I was really confused afterward, but I loved her and if that was going to send me to hell, I wouldn\'t care as long as I\'m with her. Or so I thought, it turns out everybody at my church found out. The pastor had been talking to my girlfriend, my girlfriend broke up with me, and we never spoke again. As you have stated, my problem is with people trying to implement rules on you. As I have commented, the Bible can be translated into so many different ideas and concepts, how do we know which one is right?

Your views about the "don\'ts" in Christianity are good, but faulty. You speak of not having "free will", and how can I not having if I made the choice there is no "God" while I was a Christian? You centered your statement around the superficial issue. My question to you is: How can Christians have "free will" if some of the choices they make might turn them into "sinners"? How can Christians make choices without taking into account their own feelings, rather than having to think of "WWJD"?

Christians speak of "God" as an loving caring being. Yet, in my opinion, this loving caring being relies on pushing the issue of punishment and how he will punish you if you disobey him. It doesn\'t sound very caring and loving to me. Christianity makes their deity seem two faced. The good side, he gives you life and cares for you. The bad side, he can take your life and can condemn you to eternal suffering. I ask you: If there is a "God", why should we obey him? If he loves us so much, why does he lets us fall into sin in the first place? Why do Christians have to live life according to his standards in order to actually meet him? If "God" really wanted people to follow him, why doesn\'t he just show himself. Religion causes wars, misery, and real "evil" throughout the world. Why would "God" allow this. My choice was made on the fact that there were too many questions surrounding "God". If there was nothing before "God" came, then doesn\'t that mean that he is nothing? Where did this all powerful being come from? Why should people follow him?

The way I see it, I can compare "God" to Castro. People in Cuba in order to live a better life, have to worship and like Castro. Else they live a terrible life, they are punished for their "sins" in a way.

Why do Christians follow a deity that just proclaimed himself "God" of everything. If I was to write a book, call myself "God" and the creator of everything, bury it, then thousands of years later people find it and worship me. Would I be considered a "God"?

But, I guess it all comes down to this: What makes Christianity the "real" thing compared to other religions. If you look back in time, there were so many different religions that originated. Buddhism, Hinduism, and Jainism all originated around, 500BCE. But most importantly, Judaism, the "father" of Christianity originated at around 30CE. At the same time though, the Vedas were being created. If you look at each religion before Christianity you will notice many of similarities. The way the religion started, it\'s "rules" and "God\'s", as well as other concepts. Many of passages in the Bible are stories that were told ages before by a Hindu, or a Buddhist.

If we look at the religion\'s importance in the order which they appeared, shouldn\'t Judaism be considered "God\'s" original intention of how his followers were supposed to worship him? You are telling me that in the Bible nothing has really changed, though if you look at the Jewish Bible, Torah, many of the practices and believes have been completely eradicated. Why? What made them wrong? It was the "original" religion of "God", though Christians changed it to fit THEIR believes.

Most of the passages in the Bible were told orally before they were written down. Like a kind of rumor, it might of completely changed during the time it was passed down. Also, the Bible is not made up of "God\'s" word. The passages were written by people who "witnessed" the events. Since we are all "sinners" and we all make mistakes, couldn\'t have one of the people exaggerated just a little? The Bible has been found to have many contradictory statements within itself, it just shows that some of it, if not all of it, can be completely inaccurate, or better yet, fake. Don\'t we have books about virtues and values today also? What if the Bible had the same purpose?

I agree there are things in life that can\'t be explained. But, in this case many have been explained. Those explanations are the things that Christians are not willing to believe. Where did "God" come from? Who knows. Where did the universe come from? A big rock that blew up. Which answer seems more satisfying? How old was "God"? Who knows. How old is this universe? There are two answers for this, either this universe isn\'t getting older or younger, or it\'s infinitely millions of years old. That goes into another topic though.

I think "God" is a creation of the human intellect in order to achieve the knowledge of things that we don\'t understand. The unexplainable, as humans, we have the hunger to have everything answered logically and truthfully. Yet, when this is not achievable by those standards, we turn to the "unknown". We use an "unknown" to explain the unknowns.


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« Last Edit: October 18, 2003, 10:28:07 PM by SirMystiq »
Don\'t try to confuse me with what you call  facts, my mind is already made up.

Offline SER
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Religion thread type-R
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2003, 10:27:47 PM »
I believe what I believe because I have FAITH. There have been so many things in my life that have happened and were unexplainable. My sister was almost a vegetable about 7 years ago. She had a brain tumor and her chances of living were slim. She was in the hospital for weeks and brain surgery was about to be scheduled. The last checkup or scan or whatever they do, the brain tumor had disappeared. I mean cmon, how the hell can that happen right? It just DISAPPEARED!!

I respect those who don\'t believe in God, that\'s fine with me. But there have been too many occurences in my life where I thought all hope was gone, but through faith and through prayer, I was able to get through them. You can all poke fun at me and go blah blah blah blah, but as the late Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. said, "It is better to believe in something, than to believe in nothing."

If in fact there is no God/eterrnal life at the end of this life, that\'s fine, I lived life and enjoyed it...I will have no regrets.

Offline SirMystiq

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Religion thread type-R
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2003, 10:30:55 PM »
How can you live a "happy" life when you can\'t get laid before marriage?!?!
Don\'t try to confuse me with what you call  facts, my mind is already made up.

 

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