Iraq: A lose/lose situation

I think people are overreacting - it is hardly Vietnam - yet anyway.  Some hygiene challenged cleric, his posse and some disgruntled ex Saddam employees hardly make it a "Vietnam".

Too many have died?  In Vietnam we lost appx 55,000 - we have lost 600+ here - that is a big difference.  I don\'t like seeing casualties, but America has lost its stomach for even a few hundred deaths.

Originally posted by KillaX
IMHO we should just pull all of our forces out and let tem fend for themselves and see if they last that long......  too many soldiers have died.....this is becoming Vietnam again!

Big PROBLEM , We Can\'t Pull out now... Doing that will cause yet more harm.

Whats needed is for the Reformed Iaqi Army and Police Force to start to take over the "work load" with our backing.

Originally posted by GigaShadow
I think people are overreacting - it is hardly Vietnam - yet anyway.  Some hygiene challenged cleric, his posse and some disgruntled ex Saddam employees hardly make it a "Vietnam".

Too many have died?  In Vietnam we lost appx 55,000 - we have lost 600+ here - that is a big difference.  I don\'t like seeing casualties, but America has lost its stomach for even a few hundred deaths.

Ok you seemt o be missing the point. No one said it was vietnam..there have just been numerous comparisons and its true.

Both wars..we shouldnt have been involved in.

already we have more than surpassed the 1st year of casulties in nam by a couple hundred. No one thought it would last that long and then it got ugly. This has the same potential. Not to mention we didnt have no where near the same technology as we do now and look how our men/women are dying.

Lemme dig up the other  info I found on iraq vs. nam.


bblater.

Originally posted by luckee

already we have more than surpassed the 1st year of casulties in nam by a couple hundred. No one thought it would last that long and then it got ugly. This has the same potential. Not to mention we didnt have no where near the same technology as we do now and look how our men/women are dying.

Lemme dig up the other  info I found on iraq vs. nam.


bblater.

That depends on what your source considers the 1st year - since it technically wasn\'t a war.  I am not going to argue symantics luckee it was said that this is turning into another Vietnam... not hard to understand is it?  READ.

ughh u know i totally agree with pulling out of Iraq, and as for that being "harmful" well how harmful can that be really, they\'ll all endup killing eachother till none of them is left. (btw thiers no sarcasm here).
the fact is i can undersatand if the ambushes in Iraq were done by the people who actually lost others they cared about during American raids and bombings. but all this is not from them its done by powere hungry "tribes" who really dont give a fu*k about their country or the people, and the worst part the people their are apparently too stupid to realize that .

I wonder what %\'age of Iraq wants the US to leave and how many (secretly) want them to stay and stabilize the country.

I don\'t know how our forces can do it but they need to bleed the rebels\' way of getting resources and break their will somehow.  It seems all they want is more bloodshed, not for us to setup a ruling Iraqi government so we can finally leave.

The whole "setting up" of a government idea is a joke.  AP is reporting today that the American security guards who were ambushed an mutilated were actually lured into the ambush by the newly created Iraqi Defense Force.  They were promised safe passage through the city and then the road was blocked off and they were killed.

This really isn\'t similiar to Vietnam at all.  At least in Vietnam the enemy was united and fought for a cause - in Iraq you have at a minimum three groups struggling for power - the Sunni\'s, the Shiites and the Kurds to a lesser extent.  

Burning Japanese journalists alive?  In the name of Allah?  This might be a good time to test the Neutron bomb.

As well as the Japanese captives, 6 More people taken hostage (American & Italian)... total up to 9 along with the attack on a supply convoy (killing 9).

The Whole Counrty is going to Hell in a Hand basket ... and where is Mr Blair ?

Holiday till his meeting with President Bush on Thursday.

Also nice to see that Mr Rumsfeld see\'s that there is no need for extra troops depite the Commander in Iraq\'s request for them. :rolleyes:.

Originally posted by ooseven

The Whole Counrty is going to Hell in a Hand basket ... and where is Mr Blair ?

Holiday till his meeting with President Bush on Thursday.

Also nice to see that Mr Rumsfeld see\'s that there is no need for extra troops depite the Commander in Iraq\'s request for them. :rolleyes:.

I suppose you know of some other British PM who could do a better job given the current situation?  At one breath you say we can\'t leave - then you criticize Bush and Blair.  

There is no easy answer as to what will work here.  You are right - the country is going to hell in a hand basket and turning into a terrorists playground.  

Does anyone else think our military is too humane?  F the Iraqi\'s IMO.  If they holed up in mosque - make the building a crater.  Don\'t pause an offensive to let "humanitarian aid" in.  These are our weaknesses and our enemies know this all too well.

[Titan]

Originally posted by luckee
Ok you seemt o be missing the point. No one said it was vietnam..there have just been numerous comparisons and its true.

You can compare any war with Vietnam to be honest.

Both wars..we shouldnt have been involved in.

That\'s your opinion. I personally think that as the super power, we are obligated to keep the peace in the world. But that\'s just me. And don\'t point out that we caused more war because I\'m aware of that. The government and military probably did think that we would be in there briefly and set up a new government but the unexpected happened. And I do think we should have been in Vietnam, given the times. Back then, it was a battle between Communism and Captalism/democracy. So it was in our interests to get as many countries as possible to be democratic and capitalistic and the USSR tried to get as many countries to become communism. If we hadn\'t stepped in, it would have shown that we had given up and more countries could have become communism.

already we have more than surpassed the 1st year of casulties in nam by a couple hundred. No one thought it would last that long and then it got ugly. This has the same potential. Not to mention we didnt have no where near the same technology as we do now and look how our men/women are dying.

This is a war. Do you expect us to go in and not lose any one? Do you expect us to come out with hardly anyone dead? This is a war and people die, some in horrific ways. Lets not also forget that we didn\'t put in our full military force in Vietnam at first. We were more in there for a policing action (again, at first). In Iraq, a lot of our military is there so naturally, more would die. Its like shooting fish in a barrel. Lets say we have 40 fish. We put in 10 in the barrel and put in a fire cracker. A small portion die. Put in all 40 and put in the fire cracker. More would die. There are more in a concentrated location, kind of like our troops in Iraq. I\'m not debating that we can potentially lose as many if not more than Nam and I agree its possible but I feel it is also unlikely.

How is pulling out now the best idea?

Reminds me of working in a restaurant.  People wait 30 minutes of their 45 minute wait then leave.  All for what, nothing?  I mean they must finish what they started or atleast clean things up a little before they just up in leave.

The best part about all this is crying over the deathcount.  How long will people continue to be passive towards everything?  This might not be our war but when a country really comes knocking at our door will you continue to cry over soldiers being killed?  They enlisted for a reason, to protect and serve our country.

Originally posted by Bozco
How is pulling out now the best idea?

Reminds me of working in a restaurant.  People wait 30 minutes of their 45 minute wait then leave.  All for what, nothing?  I mean they must finish what they started or atleast clean things up a little before they just up in leave.

Bozco -  that has to be the best analogy I have seen a while.

Originally posted by GigaShadow
Bozco -  that has to be the best analogy I have seen a while.

Another inspirational 4 AM post

[Titan]

Originally posted by Bozco
How is pulling out now the best idea?

Reminds me of working in a restaurant.  People wait 30 minutes of their 45 minute wait then leave.  All for what, nothing?  I mean they must finish what they started or atleast clean things up a little before they just up in leave.

Beautiful analogy man. Well said. States my point perfectly. And you are 100% right. Pulling out now is the biggest mistake ever. If Kucinich (sp) gets elected and pulls out in 90 days, he will cause more problems than he hopes to solve (which is why I think he\'s a dumbass). I will vote for Bush this election. Why? To finish what he started.

[clips]

i stated earlier the u.s. cannot pull out until there is a legitimate gov\'t in place..more troops may be needed to get control..rumsfeld (spell) feels we don\'t need to send more troops..the fact is that we don\'t have more troops to send..oh yeah we can send more troops but if they get killed off the u.s. will be incredibly thin on man power..some in gov\'t feel that they should bring back the draft....

One would think that in this day & age with the technology the u.s. has wars can be won through air with a barrage of missles..even if the missles don\'t destroy the enemy it\'s supposed to have some type of phsycological (spell) effect..when in reality you still need men on the ground to fight & clean the enemy out from houses or ditches or wherever they are hiding out.