Der Black vote

Chime in on the belief that if you pay your debt to society. You should be able to vote as any other citizen can.

Then again I am a Democrat, and tend to believe Republicans are bible thumping doo gooders. That is until it is behind closed doors. Then all bets are off.

Quick Example: I had to do work for a churches computer network two weeks ago. This church is involved in politics, and is pushing for a Bush vote amoung their patrons. Essentially being all high and mighty. Yet on over a half of the pc\'s was porn, and illegally dled software. Including the preachers. It just erks me to no end. Maybe these good christian folks should get their voting rights revoked. They are dling illegally off the web. Copywrite infringment has to be getting close to a felony. Or atleast they were talking about it at one time.

Originally posted by Black Samurai
Why not? Why should someone that has been convicted of a crime and paid their debt to society in prison lose their right to vote? Are they no longer citizens? It is not about being "soft on crime" no one is saying let prisoners out of jail. Voting is a right not a privilege.

You are always trying to paint the democrats as the problem in every solution. Get your head out of your ass and see that this is a Republican issue. all of the states that deny felons/ex-felons the right to vote are conservative states. To say that you don\'t want a particular part of society to vote because they will not vote for you leads to the very definition of being disenfranchised.

 Criminals are disenfranchised - that is pretty funny.  Democrats hard on crime?  I didn\'t see anything pro capital punishment on their platform.

Originally posted by Black Samurai

BTW, Its not Kerry who proposed giving amnesty to all illegal aliens.

 

Never said he did.  Giving them the right to vote without citizenship is an entirely different matter.

Originally posted by Black Samurai

What is there to take responsibility of? If you do not even know that you made a mistake on an application how are you supposed to fix it? If I put my mailing address on a form instead of my home address(in a box labelled only "Address") does that mean I\'ve lost my right to vote?

Your analogy is ridiculous. How do you compare a paid consumer service with a government provided service?

BTW, If your house burns down because the firemen didn\'t want to come do you say "oh well, I shouldn\'t have lived next door to a smoker. This is my fault"? That is pretty much what you are alluding to and it makes no sense.

 

Take responsiblity for your own stupidity.  This whole cry of being disenfranchised is a joke.  If someone can\'t fill out the form right - tough luck.  It isn\'t the responsibilty of the people who work at voter registration offices to hold someones hand while filling out a registration form.  If there is something I am not sure about when I fill out any form - I ask a question.  This is a feeble attempt by you to pass the buck off on Republicans because some illiterate people couldn\'t fill out a registration form correctly.  it is also not the responsibility of the government to call these people if something is wrong with their registration form.  As vid said, if you don\'t get your card reasonably quickly something must be wrong - contact them.  When I got my license here in AL I had my wife call me when my registration card came in the mail.  I did put the priviledge of voting souly in the governments hands.  If it had not come in a reasonible amount of time I would have followed up on it prior to the registration deadline.  

My analogy makes perfect sense in that a non profit government agency as well a private service that relies on profits is not going to hold your hand and make sure you have dotted all your i\'s and crossed all your t\'s.  People have a certain amount of self responsibilty that they have to answer to.  It is your analogy that got lost somewhere between your brain and the keyboard.

Originally posted by Black Samurai
These are the breakdowns when it comes to voter restrictions:

• No restrictions (Maine, Vermont)
  
• Inmates Only (Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Montana, North/South Dakota, Oregon, Utah, Louisiana, Hawaii)
  
• Inmates & Parolees (NY, Connecticut, Rhode Island, California, Colorado, Kansas)
  
• Inmates, Parolees, and Probationers (New Jersey, West Virginia, North/South Carolina, Georgia, Texas, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Missouri, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Idaho, Alaska)
  
• Inmates, Parolees, Probationers, and Some or All Ex-Felons (Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, Kentucky, Tennesee, Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Iowa, Nebraska, Wyoming, Washington, Nevada, Arizona)
  

[/B]

DH this backs up my point - voting is a priviledge.  Thanks for the info BS.

Originally posted by GigaShadow
Criminals are disenfranchised - that is pretty funny.  Democrats hard on crime?  I didn\'t see anything pro capital punishment on their platform.

Did I ever say that Democrats were hard on crime? What does that have to do with giving EX-felons the right to vote?

BTW, Capital punishment has no relevance to the topic at hand.

Originally posted by GigaShadow
Take responsiblity for your own stupidity.  This whole cry of being disenfranchised is a joke.  If someone can\'t fill out the form right - tough luck.  It isn\'t the responsibilty of the people who work at voter registration offices to hold someones hand while filling out a registration form.  If there is something I am not sure about when I fill out any form - I ask a question.  This is a feeble attempt by you to pass the buck off on Republicans because some illiterate people couldn\'t fill out a registration form correctly.  it is also not the responsibility of the government to call these people if something is wrong with their registration form.  As vid said, if you don\'t get your card reasonably quickly something must be wrong - contact them.

It is their responsibility to inform you of your mistake and give you the information to correct it. That is their job. All they do is take voters applications. Those that are fine are put in a database. Those that have mistakes are marked and the person is mailed another form and a letter telling them what was wrong with their original. That is their job. If they do NOT inform you of your mistake then they are not doing their job. I just don\'t understand how you can say it is a certain group of people\'s fault that another group didn\'t do what they were supposed to.

Originally posted by GigaShadow
My analogy makes perfect sense in that a non profit government agency as well a private service that relies on profits is not going to hold your hand and make sure you have dotted all your i\'s and crossed all your t\'s.  People have a certain amount of self responsibilty that they have to answer to.  It is your analogy that got lost somewhere between your brain and the keyboard.

Dude, you are comparing a fully formed private company that has no obligation to the consumer but to provide a paid service with a government agency which, being non-profit, has only one obligation which IS the consumer.

[videoholic]

How did a thread talking about blacks being disenfranchised turn into talking about criminals?

Originally posted by GigaShadow
DH this backs up my point - voting is a priviledge.  Thanks for the info BS.

It really can be argued either way. Personally I believe that it is a right but it can be argued that it is a privilege.

Criminals are disenfranchised - that is pretty funny. Democrats hard on crime?

Now I know Giga isnt stupid by any means, but its simple things like this and a couple other issues, that you just love to twist (perhaps intentionally or perhaps not). Is it always to be inferred that when somebody says that democrats arent soft on crime (or something of the sort) is wrong, then the case is just the complete opposite? That is just stupid, plain and simple.

People claim democrats to be the kings and queens of the "grey area." So that must mean that Republicans see things in more concrtete and almost black and white fashion? Im not saying this is true but it doesnt easily seem untrue. Things arent just black and white, so dont misconstrue things as being wrong and just the complete opposite. Its things of this nature that cause a loss to your credibility.

[SirMystiq]

Giga mentioned capital death. So in order to be hard on crime you have to kill all the criminals?


I think voting is a RIGHT and that when the fathers of the Constitution gave the people the right to vote they truly wanted every single US citizen to vote. It\'s the state\'s job to set up and have elections but it\'s not it\'s right to choose who votes and who doesn\'t.

[Living-In-Clip]

Give me a break. Felons shouldn\'t vote? If they are out of prison and they make an effort to vote, they should be able. Once out of prison , they have to get a job and pay taxes. People make mistakes and there is no reason for us to take something away from them for the rest of their life, if they have paid their debt to society. I am not arguing to let prisoners vote - I disagree with that. Instead, I think once they are out on their own, have a job then their voting rights should be restablished. You could even have a three strike rule if you wanted, three felonies and afterwards you can never vote again, but first time felons, who have completed their term, should be able to vote.


I love the logic on all this. You justify people not being able to vote for minor mistakes they don\'t even know they made! You then say if someone goes to prison, comes out and has a stable job, that when election comes around they shouldn\'t be able to vote. Do you see anything wrong with the two above comments? I know I do.

And once again, this thread turns into complete shit because Giga has to take his jabs at democrats, instead of simply debating the topic. Go figure. No one brought up capital punishment, but for some reason you felt compelled to bring that up and take a jab at democrats. Why? What does this have to do with the topic? Black Samurai said it best - get your head out of your ass.

[videoholic]

Again, I have to ask..  WHat does not allowing fellons to vote have to do with black people?

Why aren\'t white fellons being disenfranchised then?

THis is still not a black issue that people are making it out to be.

IT\'s a fellon issue.  

And a retard issue for the people who put PO Boxes down as their address or don\'t sign the damn thing.

[Living-In-Clip]

The point is simple, black\'s typically vote democratic and now, they are being denied the vote by the goverment for small mistakes they didn\'t know they made. It\'s the goverments job to make sure everything is filled out correctly and notify people if it isn\'t. Apparently they aren\'t doing this and a high percent of these bad forms filled out are by black people.
See, it\'s simple.

Originally posted by Living-In-Clip

And once again, this thread turns into complete shit because Giga has to take his jabs at democrats, instead of simply debating the topic. Go figure. No one brought up capital punishment, but for some reason you felt compelled to bring that up and take a jab at democrats. Why? What does this have to do with the topic? Black Samurai said it best - get your head out of your ass.

LIC you have to one of the dumbest people in this forum.  I have debated the topic.  You constantly turn this into an attack upon me.  If you don\'t like what I say because I am a Republican then put me on ignore - please.  Stop whining about the legitimate facts that I bring up that cast the Democrats in a negative light according to you.

Capital punishment has a lot to do with crime and how it handled by either party.  You obviously don\'t see the big picture.  Also you can thank yourself for turning this thread into complete shit with your obvious personal dislike towards myself.  Get over it dork, go put on your cape and return to talking about comics as that seems to be your forte. :rolleyes:

Furthermore, I challenge you to a debate on any political topic you want.  Just me and you.  No one else involved as I will enjoy the opportunity to intellectually beat you and your views (however misguided they are) into the ground.

[Living-In-Clip]

There is no private debate, that is a pathetic idea. Anything I have to say, I can say here. You are the one who plays ring around the rosies with every debate and then take jabs at democrats.

You are stuck up, arrogant, a fool and a Republican - but guess what? Just because you are all of the above, does not mean every Republican is. Unlike some people, (YOU) I can see beyond someone\'s political party preference.

Capital punishment has NOTHING to do with this topic. Not one damn thing and you have no big picture. Infact, criminals had nothing to do with the original subject. Go back to sticking your finger up your ass, as that seems to be your forta.

Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
There is no private debate, that is a pathetic idea. Anything I have to say, I can say here. You are the one who plays ring around the rosies with every debate and then take jabs at democrats.

You are stuck up, arrogant, a fool and a Republican - but guess what? Just because you are all of the above, does not mean every Republican is. Unlike some people, (YOU) I can see beyond someone\'s political party preference.

Capital punishment has NOTHING to do with this topic. Not one damn thing and you have no big picture. Infact, criminals had nothing to do with the original subject. Go back to sticking your finger up your ass, as that seems to be your forta.

Exactly how does capital punishment and the issue of crime not relate to each other?  If criminals could vote why would they vote for a candidate that endorses capital punishment LIC?  They wouldn\'t, very simple.

Again I ask, why can\'t I take jabs at Democrats?  Stop avoiding the question.  Am I not allowed to, but others such as you, Mystiq, BS and others are allowed to take jabs at this administration.  You are a hypocrite.  

If you could read you would see we were talking about disenfranchised voters and BS posted an article (scroll up) that stated this:

Additionally, Florida is one of 14 states that prohibit ex-felons from voting. Seven percent of the electorate but 16 percent of black voters in that state are disenfranchised.

In other swing states, 4.6 percent of voters in Iowa, but 25 percent of blacks, were disenfranchised in 2000 as ex-felons. In Nevada, it was 4.8 percent of all voters but 17 percent of blacks; in New Mexico, 6.2 percent of all voters but 25 percent of blacks.

In total, 13 percent of all black men are disenfranchised due to a felony conviction, according to the Commission on Civil Rights.

So jackass, that is how criminals were brought into this topic and it wasn\'t by me.

Nice excuse for not wanting to debate me - it wouldn\'t have been private - everyone would see it.  You just don\'t have the balls.
:rolleyes:

Originally posted by SirMystiq
I think voting is a RIGHT and that when the fathers of the Constitution gave the people the right to vote they truly wanted every single US citizen to vote.

For what its worth, when the founding fathers gave people the right to vote, only white male landowners could. So they thought of it as a privilege.