September NPD

Originally posted by Ginko
I didn\'t suggest they are completely ignorant with their purchases.  What I\'m saying is that they don\'t buy games based on tech specs or an e3 performance, those don\'t count when it comes to system longevity.  Only the games will and 70+ million PS2\'s says Sony knows that and in the end tech specs, e3 performances, shortages, etc. don\'t matter.

If you don\'t agree then how would you explain that the N64 reached less than a third of the Playstation userbase for reason other than it didn\'t have the selection of games the competition had?  Or why PS2 managed to sell 4-5 times as much as the competition?

Sigh* Cant rest on anything.

Like i said, i dissagree. I think that tech specs etc are known in some way by casual gamers either through magazines or word of mouth etc. Thats what hype is all about. Nobody looks at a system and doesnt wonder what it can do. Obviously its ability to produce good graphics is of their concern. I never said the games dont sell the systems. I actually said that the visuals were of really high quality for xbox and thus it was a semi high selling factor for casual gamers looking for the next best thing(its not the only factor of course). As long as the visuals and/or the premise seemed kool then people were drawn to it.

In the long run its a mixed bag of misinformation and information where if one company cant perform later on in the game department then it will falter. There are those people that still play off either the hype machine or the kool visual tip. I cant pull up a chart right now but like i said before, we\'ve seen some pretty mediocre games make it to the top 20 in sales because of these types of gamers. I never said that xbox/microsoft wasnt making any progress in this area, i just dont think its the stride that some people are making it out to be. This is what the original argument was, right?

We go off on these tangents that end up meaning little to the topic at hand. With the only real competitor being sony, microsoft should be selling more units. Like i said - its expected.

Originally posted by mm
why do i get the feeling that bozco and ginko are the  same person?

Well thanks for putting me on his level, but no.  Pathetic accusation really

And whats this, yes, another dodge of a comment.

feel free to change the subject again to fit your needs

Table salt

Originally posted by Lord Nicon
Sigh* Cant rest on anything.

Like i said, i dissagree. I think that tech specs etc are known in some way by casual gamers either through magazines or word of mouth etc. Thats what hype is all about. Nobody looks at a system and doesnt wonder what it can do. Obviously its ability to produce good graphics is of their concern. I never said the games dont sell the systems. I actually said that the visuals were of really high quality for xbox and thus it was a semi high selling factor for casual gamers looking for the next best thing(its not the only factor of course). As long as the visuals and/or the premise seemed kool then people were drawn to it.

In the long run its a mixed bag of misinformation and information where if one company cant perform later on in the game department then it will falter. There are those people that still play off either the hype machine or the kool visual tip. I cant pull up a chart right now but like i said before, we\'ve seen some pretty mediocre games make it to the top 20 in sales because of these types of gamers. I never said that xbox/microsoft wasnt making any progress in this area, i just dont think its the stride that some people are making it out to be. This is what the original argument was, right?

I can agree with most of that except I don\'t think hype carries as much weight as you seem to be giving it.  The life of the system depends on good games being continually released and Sony does that better than anyone else at the moment, that\'s what I attribute to their success.

We go off on these tangents that end up meaning little to the topic at hand. With the only real competitor being sony, microsoft should be selling more units. Like i said - its expected.

I\'m amazed that MS has managed to sell as much as they have, gain developers, and establish themselves...that\'s certainly progress for a company that just entered the business under three years ago, and against the giant that is Sony.

mm, still waiting for those answers of yours...I won\'t hold my breath though;)  


...

Table salt?

im not suprised that MS has managed to sell as little as they have

m$ has established nothing (aside from losing billions of dollars).  xbox 2 will need halo 3 to sell at all.

ginko, still waiting for you to change the topic again

[§ôµÏG®ïñD]

Table salt isn\'t as good as rock salt.    Thats a fact..



debate....

Originally posted by mm
im not suprised that MS has managed to sell as little as they have

m$ has established nothing (aside from losing billions of dollars).  xbox 2 will need halo 3 to sell at all.

ginko, still waiting for you to change the topic again

You know, I just wanted to see what you\'re referring to and I couldn\'t find anything where I changed topic to avoid answering.  But I did notice you did it quite a few times.  I\'ve asked you directly, two or three times, to tell me what you were trying to prove about Halo and you never answered.

The thread started out as a numbers thread that turned into a Halo thread because of a comment made by ooseven.  The thread has gone between disputing the quality of Halo and the numbers...so now I have to ask what changes you are talking about that I provoked?

One of the biggest reasons why PS2 sold and sells are some key titles that have gain popularity from the previous generation and the expectations carried by the brand name.

The XBOX doesnt sell because the gamers are changing trends.Its a matter of good marketing.MS can push the XBOX no matter how much they lose.At the end its still here.It showed a presence that seemed strong although it wasnt till it doesnt matter anymore.The consumers were buying it for the "delusion" of a strong presence, gained userbase slowly, gained more support and at the end it was pushed so much that it doesnt matter anymore.Its presence became strong as an end result.It was forced by MS\'s ability to take heavy loses.
It even surpassed Gamecube in sales.Its prsence as an end result is as strong in the industry as much as its competitors.

Originally posted by mm
no, hype sells
look at xbox

I dont know about you but I wish I had an XBOX for certain exclusive games and some multiplatform games that play better on XBOX than on PS2
It doesnt matter if hype helped it.The end result matters.I can say as easily as you did "hype sells, look at PS2"

Originally posted by Ginko
 But I did notice you did it quite a few times.  I\'ve asked you directly, two or three times, to tell me what you were trying to prove about Halo and you never answered.

Yea, I called him out on it and he even changed topic.  *Yawn*

keep dancing boz, it amuses me
oh, and feel free to change the topic again to suit your needs

I dont know about you but I wish I had an XBOX for certain exclusive games and some multiplatform games that play better on XBOX than on PS2
It doesnt matter if hype helped it.The end result matters.I can say as easily as you did "hype sells, look at PS2"

70 million to 15 million in sales, bro
get a grip

The XBOX doesnt sell because the gamers are changing trends.

<--points right to fable
there\'s your damn trend, eat it up

It even surpassed Gamecube in sales

oooh, it sold ~500k more
thats just fantastic.  how much profit did nintendo make on gamecube again?

Its prsence as an end result is as strong in the industry as much as its competitors.

:rolleyes:

Originally posted by mm

70 million to 15 million in sales, bro
get a grip

Doesnt proove anything.The same counts for GC and that doesnt mean Nintendo\'s failure.There are many factors that keep the PS2 up there.XBOX could never have been the PSX of this generation whatever the efforts.

<--points right to fable
there\'s your damn trend, eat it up

That\'s just one game that came only recently

oooh, it sold ~500k more
thats just fantastic.  how much profit did nintendo make on gamecube again?

Its not the difference that count.My point here wasnt trying to proove XBOX a more succesful console.The point here is that XBOX is around the same levels GC is.XBOX and GC around the same levels=XBOX reaching a considerable signifigant number

When a consumer goes out in the marekt he will see XBOX and GC having similar presence.

What profit Nintendo or MS makes is irrelevant.The consumer\'s view only sees the "exogenous" figures in the market.Not "endogenous" figures in firms.The market determines the strenth of the presence of the product.This is one rare example where a product does well phenomenically in the market but with loses in the firm because MS can take the loses.
Also there are other reasons why MS loses more than Nintendo depiste having similar sales because these resons dont have necessarily to do with how well it sells.

:rolleyes: [/B]

I dont know if you have noticed but I took a neutral point of view. :rolleyes:

Doesnt proove anything.

actually, it proves everything

Actually you are wrong.

mm, you just repeated most of what you\'ve already said in this thread only you still haven\'t proven anything.

I\'m still waiting for you to come back around to answering my questions about Halo and now, since you made such a big deal about it, prove that I provoked a change in topic.

Good luck...