Iraqi elections

Originally posted by SirMystiq
Shut up.

Seriously, you have no idea how I feel about this country and further how I think about this country. I don\'t dislike America. I dislike our short-sighted government that is in power. I do wish for everything to be peace and prosperity but I know that in this world that won\'t happen.

Your solution seems to go along the lines of "Ignore the problem. It will go away." Hey, hello, there are people out there who want to bring this country, and everyone in it, to their knees. And if you think that they just recently got this idea, you\'re wrong. Islamic terrorism, as I hope you\'re aware, has been around for decades. And even AFTER they attacked us directly, here in America, we ignored the problem, allowing it to grow and solidify, until they finally turned the WTC into rubble. How much longer would we have ignored it, had Bush not been elected?

I don\'t need to ask you what you say you think about America. Your words say enough.

What I won\'t stand for is being lied to and watching our soldiers die daily as a result of a dim-witted decision made by those in power. I won\'t stand for "freedom" when the idea of "freedom" is being shaped and molded by the media and those in government.

I won\'t stand for ignorance and be oblivious to the reasons why America is so hated around the world. Are they right for doing what they did to this country? No. But am I too ignorant and stupid to acknowledge their point of view of the entire situation? No

You won\'t stand for America\'s idea of freedom. Neither does Al-Qaeda. They\'re doing everything they can to destroy it. You\'re not making it even the slightest bit less difficult for him. You and those like you seek to weaken our resolve. Whether or not you realize how much our enemy loves you for it, I can\'t tell. Again, I hope it\'s ignorance, and not malice, that drives you.

We DID wait for them to blow shit up here. Only after 9/11 did our bubble burst. What you seem to be implying is that Iraq was a threat and it was. But the threat was mishandled, miscalculated and as a result of that faulty equation we have death, destruction and the neverending stretch of our falling economy.

Again, I refer to my statement about D-Day. This war is one of the cleanest and smoothest wars ever fought in the history of the human race. We are fighting an insurgency, and while they are deadly, in the end they are a menace, but not a lethal menace. They do not control any sizable portions of Iraq, and unless we stand aside and let them, there\'s no chance they ever will. I think subduing the terrorists would be so much easier if we didn\'t have to fight such a politically correct war. We have to fight this war in such a way that we offend as few as possible. This is something that compromises our progress more than anything else, and a good deal of that can be blamed on the left of America. It\'s so terrible to torture captured terrorists, but none of you people bat an eyelash when they take innocent civilians and behead them on video. You people blame us for this instead of those with the knives. It shows far more than words whose cause is being supported by the far Left.

Your tirade of sarcastic remarks is dull and apologetic. You\'ve seem to have forgotten that Iraq is not the only one that "murder innocent people" That has nothing to do with the whole basis of this war. This war has been subject to frequent goal changes and mishaps and it\'s sad that your high regard for our President and your blinding and dangerous level of patriotism has led you to believe and of the crap you just posted.

And it\'s equally sad that your dislike for America and what it stands for cannot override your desire to live in the greatest, happiest, most wonderful nation on the face of the earth. There are plenty of places where people like you would be happier living thanks to politics, but for some reason, you wish to stay here in the Great Satan, using the tired old line "I want to change it, not run away".

It\'s bullshit, if I may be frank. You don\'t like it here, and you know that it\'s astronomically unlikely that you or anyone else is going to transform this nation into the bastardized, neutered version you crave, so why not go to a place that IS what you want? There are plenty out there.

Originally posted by Weltall

It\'s bullshit, if I may be frank. You don\'t like it here, and you know that it\'s astronomically unlikely that you or anyone else is going to transform this nation into the bastardized, neutered version you crave, so why not go to a place that IS what you want? There are plenty out there.

Best quote ever.  

Oh and clips - as for your claim there was zero public support before we went into Iraq - you are absolutely wrong.  I supported it along with countless others.  You must have been traveling abroad at the time... :rolleyes:

[Evi]

Weltall is officially on my badass list now...

But anway, I was watching all the people of Iraq dancing and singing at the voting sites, and it just about brought me to tears. I just thought it was so freakin\' awesome. Such an overwhelming event.

[Jumpman]

Originally posted by SirMystiq
WW2 was an actual war based on actual need to attack. Let\'s not forget that the US had no intention of helping the Jews other than by some ammo and a couple of embargos. Also that the Japanese attacked the US and we declared war on JAPAN not Germany. But then Germany declared war on us.
 

Did they not teach you history in illegal immigrant school?

The US didn\'t discover about the holocaust until they got there and kept moving deeper and discovering these execution/concentration camps. Hell it wasn\'t until 42 I think when Hitler decided concentration camps wern\'t good enough and went for the all out execution of every Jew. The US simply didn\'t know what was going on in Europe.
 
Really if you don\'t like the US move to fucking Europe or something. Canada doesn\'t want you either.

[GmanJoe]

If WW2 happened today, the media would blame the US and Britain for not helping Germany recover from WWI and that it\'s the US and Britain\'s and France\'s fault that Germany is lashing out against the world.

Liberals = blame-ologists

[GmanJoe]

Originally posted by EviscerationX

But anway, I was watching all the people of Iraq dancing and singing at the voting sites, and it just about brought me to tears. I just thought it was so freakin\' awesome. Such an overwhelming event.

I bet Miss Tiq and clips are pissed about that. They miss the good ole days of Saddam Hussein......

I think SirMystiq is quite correct on some of what he said about the allies.

I remember reading somewhere that the allies were informed of what was going on in the camps and were asked to send troops there, but the response was that they were there to fight a war. Something like that, and you cant blame them IMO, the first priority was defeating the Germans.

I think all countries who knew of what was going on did what they reasonably could with the information they had.

Originally posted by SirMystiq
WW2 was an actual war based on actual need to attack. Let\'s not forget that the US had no intention of helping the Jews other than by some ammo and a couple of embargos. Also that the Japanese attacked the US and we declared war on JAPAN not Germany. But then Germany declared war on us.


Anyways. Let\'s also not forget that most of our casualties during WW2 came DURING the war. Not after "major operations have ended" and the "mission was accomplished"


Why does it have to be "liberal news"? Why can\'t it be the media all together. I\'m tired of some neo-cons trying to give the word "liberal" a negative connotation.

Helping Jews by giving some ammo and embargos?  Learn your history.  Jumpman is absolutely correct in saying the US didn\'t know about the Holocaust until the end of the war - and by the way you typed that Miss tiq - you make it sound like the US was arming Jews. :rolleyes:.

BTW liberal does indeed carry a negative meaning in many parts of this country.

Originally posted by GmanJoe
If WW2 happened today, the media would blame the US and Britain for not helping Germany recover from WWI and that it\'s the US and Britain\'s and France\'s fault that Germany is lashing out against the world.

Liberals = blame-ologists

Gman you are probably right about that except for lumping France in there - nothing is ever France\'s fault - remember?

So the final tally is what?

No hanging Chads. Just a couple shot Mohammeds and one blown up Sarif?

-Dan

[Titan]

This is why I like being a moderate right now. Moderates accept no blame

[SirMystiq]

Originally posted by GigaShadow
Helping Jews by giving some ammo and embargos?  Learn your history.  Jumpman is absolutely correct in saying the US didn\'t know about the Holocaust until the end of the war - and by the way you typed that Miss tiq - you make it sound like the US was arming Jews. :rolleyes:.

BTW liberal does indeed carry a negative meaning in many parts of this country.

Even though you have profoundly stated and proclaimed your statement to be truth by backing it with your assumptions about by knowledge of history, I happen to have read and researched cases and books about what actually could of happened during those times.

http://www1.ushmm.org/research/library/bibliography/america/right.htm

"Despite a history of providing sanctuary to persecuted peoples, the United States grappled with many issues during the 1930s that made staying true to this history more difficult, among them wide-spread antisemitism, xenophobia, isolationism, and a sustained economic depression. Unfortunate for those fleeing from Nazi persecution, these issues greatly impacted this nation\'s refugee policy, resulting in tighter restrictions and limited quotas at a time when open doors might have saved lives.

Over the years, the American reaction to the Holocaust has developed into a complex investigation among scholars, addressing such questions as: What did America know? What did we do with this knowledge? Could we have done more? If so, why didn\'t we? Scholars have gauged America\'s culpability through the government\'s restrictive immigration measures, its indifference to reported atrocities, and its sluggish efforts to save European Jews. Debates have sparked over key events, including the St. Louis tragedy, the overdue establishment of the War Refugee Board, the role of the American Jewish community, the media\'s coverage of Nazi violence, and the proposed, but abandoned, bombing of Auschwitz. Despite the wealth of resulting literature, it is unlikely that these debates will end. Instead, the topic continues to evolve with the introduction of new documentation and revised hypotheses.


Marrus, Michael Robert, editor. Bystanders to the Holocaust. Westport: Meckler, 1989. (Ref D 810 .J4 N38 1989 v.8, pt. 1-3)
A three-volume collection of articles and essays on the world\'s response to the Holocaust. Focuses, in large part, on the American response, providing numerous pieces (previously published elsewhere) on President Roosevelt, the United States government, the American Jewish community, and the American media. Includes notes and numerous appendices. Part of a larger series titled, The Nazi Holocaust. "



And if you have somehow have become a well known scholar in this field and you know exactly what the US know and didn\'t know then go ahead and state your truths. Otherwise, your claim that the US didn\'t know about the holocaust is pure speculation devised merely to try to assert your own facts.

Dammit all that did was question what we knew not IF WE KNEW

[SirMystiq]

Originally posted by Weltall
Your solution seems to go along the lines of "Ignore the problem. It will go away." Hey, hello, there are people out there who want to bring this country, and everyone in it, to their knees. And if you think that they just recently got this idea, you\'re wrong. Islamic terrorism, as I hope you\'re aware, has been around for decades. And even AFTER they attacked us directly, here in America, we ignored the problem, allowing it to grow and solidify, until they finally turned the WTC into rubble. How much longer would we have ignored it, had Bush not been elected?

I don\'t need to ask you what you say you think about America. Your words say enough.



You won\'t stand for America\'s idea of freedom. Neither does Al-Qaeda. They\'re doing everything they can to destroy it. You\'re not making it even the slightest bit less difficult for him. You and those like you seek to weaken our resolve. Whether or not you realize how much our enemy loves you for it, I can\'t tell. Again, I hope it\'s ignorance, and not malice, that drives you.



Again, I refer to my statement about D-Day. This war is one of the cleanest and smoothest wars ever fought in the history of the human race. We are fighting an insurgency, and while they are deadly, in the end they are a menace, but not a lethal menace. They do not control any sizable portions of Iraq, and unless we stand aside and let them, there\'s no chance they ever will. I think subduing the terrorists would be so much easier if we didn\'t have to fight such a politically correct war. We have to fight this war in such a way that we offend as few as possible. This is something that compromises our progress more than anything else, and a good deal of that can be blamed on the left of America. It\'s so terrible to torture captured terrorists, but none of you people bat an eyelash when they take innocent civilians and behead them on video. You people blame us for this instead of those with the knives. It shows far more than words whose cause is being supported by the far Left.

 

And it\'s equally sad that your dislike for America and what it stands for cannot override your desire to live in the greatest, happiest, most wonderful nation on the face of the earth. There are plenty of places where people like you would be happier living thanks to politics, but for some reason, you wish to stay here in the Great Satan, using the tired old line "I want to change it, not run away".

It\'s bullshit, if I may be frank. You don\'t like it here, and you know that it\'s astronomically unlikely that you or anyone else is going to transform this nation into the bastardized, neutered version you crave, so why not go to a place that IS what you want? There are plenty out there.

As others have done before, I will dismiss all of your speculation about my degree of love for this country because I have previously stated that this country means much more to me than you would think. Also, I don\'t see the connection between loving this country and loving the Government. The Native Americans loved this land, but I bet they hate the Government.

The "What if..." game has no substantial basis for your claim on the first election of the president. The 9/11 attacks happened AFTER his "election" and in no way affected the election. Also, it would be pure and simple speculation to claim that a Democrat would not have done the same as a result of such an attack(Not including Iraq) based on your personal opinions and the faults you might see on the "left".

Yes, the terrorist did destroy WTC. Yes, they have been around for decades. Now, connect it to Iraq. It\'s been attempted before but we\'re still waiting for that huge connection. Enlighten me.

I\'m not arguing against some of the actions taking by the President after 9/11. You are trying to connect 9/11 to the war in Iraq and fail to provide any kind of evidence linking the two. The only facts we know is that Osama, the original perpetrator of the attacks, is still alive and that he is still sending his people on missions. He is obviously trying to communicate with the new radical Islamic terrorist and the attacks on our soldier in Iraq are nonstop.

And your rhetoric about America\'s freedom sounds alot like the many speeches made by the President. What exactly won\'t I stand about America\'s freedom that you seem to know about? Do you not think I don\'t love this freedom, this right to type all this right now without fear of retaliation from the Government?

Now, when it has been obvious and stated many times that the major concern for this terrorist is the US\' constant intrusion and influence on their affairs, specially when dealing with Israel. It has been said before that our foreign policy is the primary target and fuel of the hate and attacks against this country as well as others. Also, your constant attempt to label me as a "Osama supporter" is really dull and it makes me sick. If there is anything I would wan\'t in this world above anything else is for all this shit to stop but it won\'t. And just because I won\'t stand by and let lies be thrown at my face and have people like you try to mold and shape what an ideal citizen should be doesn\'t mean I support "our enemies" You have yet to show how people like me "weaken our resolve" Did my actions encourage 9/11, or are you sure it wasn\'t our foreign policy? Do the constant attacks of our soldiers are a result of people like me, or the fact that they are in the middle of hell and can\'t get out?


I will also not adress your assumptions about the "left" and the influence we have on the middle east, because frankly, I\'m tired of allowing people like you use the "left" as scapegoats for the hell hole that is Iraq. I don\'t think that leaving our troops for target practice and retaliation is in any way suppressin the terrorist faction, also I highly doubt that the entire population of terrorist is located in Iraq right now and are not planning another attack. The results of this Iraq war have been minuscle other than the liberation of people that people like you and Giga don\'t care about. It\'s funny to me that you two preach about the welfare of this country when the only obvious result from this war was the liberation of people...from another COUNTRY!! The paradox is amazing.

[SirMystiq]

Originally posted by Halberto
Dammit all that did was question what we knew not IF WE KNEW

What\'s the difference? What IF WE KNEW about the holocaust? What IF WE KNEW we could of done more about it?

We never will. It\'s nothing but speculation, therefore it can\'t be used as a fact.