Everything you wanted to know about XNA

[§ôµÏG®ïñD]

The point is, what if the already made wheel is poorly made...  Unless they can develope it to a point where the coding is extremely well done, i\'ll never like it.   I guess we\'ll see when games come out, but i\'ve got a feeling we\'ll need hardcore hardware for shit that could run if coded properly on half that.

I can picture now what SoulGrind is talking about and I sure dont like it if thats the case.
Remember MGS2?Everything was built on PS2 from scratch.It was like ":eek: I ve never seen anything like it before!I am amazed by the team\'s talent and effort put into the game".How many games have we seen using the same rain effects?None!And thank GOD!Its also each game\'s unique visuals that make gaming feel fresh and exciting.
We are waiting to see how much developers can get from the performance each time a big game is announced and what new graphic effects they will invent and implement.
When news about a new game from a big developer emerge we pay attention and have expectations to see something unique and different being squeezed from the hardware.
I dont want to see the same "good effects" and "similar good graphics" being repeated again and again in every game just because developers are lazy.
I only hope this wont happen.

[Bobs_Hardware]

I\'d trade in unique/different rain effects for unique/different gameplay anyday.

I think both the pro\'s and con\'s of XNA are being pretty majorly overstated. But if it helps developers, why not? They\'re not forced to use it, are they?

BTW, you realize that to save on physics processing power, that the rain splashing of the characters in MGS2 was actually a part of the character model?

I prefer BOTH
As for the last part its irrelevant.And that has mostly to do with hardware limitations.

Originally posted by §ôµÏG®ïñD
The point is, what if the already made wheel is poorly made...  Unless they can develope it to a point where the coding is extremely well done, i\'ll never like it.

If the wheel is poorly made then they don\'t use. People are already using the tools of other developers. Companies are using the Unreal Engine for graphics and the Havok engine for physics. It is not like this is a new phenomena. XNA is supposed to make it easier.

Originally posted by Unicron!
Remember MGS2?Everything was built on PS2 from scratch.It was like ":eek: I ve never seen anything like it before!I am amazed by the team\'s talent and effort put into the game".How many games have we seen using the same rain effects?None!And thank GOD!

Yes and the game also cost $20+ million dollars to make and had an ass backwards story.

The rain was a testament to the designers\' ability to use the graphics engine.

Take for example these games:





They are all using the same technology. It has just been tweaked by the designer. Just like the engines will be tweaked with XNA.

Those developers that make good games will continue to make good but in less time and money.

Those that make crappy ones will not benefit from XNA and thus we end up the soulgrind concept

Originally posted by Black Samurai


Yes and the game also cost $20+ million dollars to make and had an ass backwards story.

The rain was a testament to the designers\' ability to use the graphics engine.

Take for example these games:





They are all using the same technology. It has just been tweaked by the designer. Just like the engines will be tweaked with XNA.

Despite all the pics you posted and despite the fact that they look better than many PS2 games none of them impressed me when I saw them.There was no wow factor.
This is something I felt with XBOX games.Many games looked better and impossible to be made on a PS2 but rarely made me :eek:
Thats becuase they are using standard methods.
Even Splinter Cell\'s rain effects were very standard compared to MGS2\'s despite that it was newer on more powerful hardware.

First pic:nice lighting effects and surfaces
2nd pic:Nice bumb mapping, textures, lighting effects and shadows
3rd pic:like any other game just using cell shading and bright colors
4rth pic:Nice lighting effects textures

There is no sense of substance.They are all using the same techniques and methods.They are significantly better looking in many aspects than games like ZOE2, MGS,Jak, R&C etc but it seems to be something these games lack for me

Originally posted by §ôµÏG®ïñD
u don\'t think pre-built sdks won\'t make gaming codes more crappy..  Just look at the difference between Opengl and D3d.

SDK imo make developers slack, all the major work is done for them so they slap together a game as quick as possible and sell it.   There a few companies that even bother to take the time these days.

Bleh, Souly, you have absolutley no idea what you\'re talking about. You can\'t even make a \'hello word\' program and here you are acting high and mighty about the purity of software development. Everything is built on top of something. You can\'t just keep starting from the beginning because that is just completely stupid.

Just be quiet already.

[clips]

uh oh..and here i thought only mm and soully gets into it around these parts...*sits back and waits for soully\'s response*..

owned

[§ôµÏG®ïñD]

avvy, you\'re telling me companies don\'t use the same old crap to create games to make life easier and less expensive..
Very few companies design there own shit these days. They just base it off another company who has taken time to build (as example) engines, Havok, Unreal, Q3 etc etc. How many friggin rehashed games are based of these types of engines.  But i know how slack u are,  you\'re wanting to be one of these devs.    I\'m not saying start from scratch, i\'m just saying don\'t be slack and expect good ol ms and other comps to do all the ground work for you. Advancement is made by the companies that take a step forward, not by companies that jump on the bandwagon.  Good luck working for them.

Then theres games like for example, max payne, extremely well made game. Then games like the matrix that looked pretty much the same graphically but just sucked monkeys balls. Was poorly coded, needed way higher hardware just to even get close to the same framerate.  Now, what if every company based there games of that engine,  ohh goodie...  Same is said with SDKs, a shitty one can = us paying through the nose just to play games that could easily run on half the system if it was just done better.

[Bobs_Hardware]

Uni, you\'re talking more about the art direction I believe.

Actually its the opposite.Unless the pics posted all show identical art direction.And they dont.

Originally posted by §ôµÏG®ïñD
avvy, you\'re telling me companies don\'t use the same old crap to create games to make life easier and less expensive..
Very few companies design there own shit these days. They just base it off another company who has taken time to build (as example) engines, Havok, Unreal, Q3 etc etc. How many friggin rehashed games are based of these types of engines.  But i know how slack u are,  you\'re wanting to be one of these devs.    I\'m not saying start from scratch, i\'m just saying don\'t be slack and expect good ol ms and other comps to do all the ground work for you. Advancement is made by the companies that take a step forward, not by companies that jump on the bandwagon.  Good luck working for them.

Then theres games like for example, max payne, extremely well made game. Then games like the matrix that looked pretty much the same graphically but just sucked monkeys balls. Was poorly coded, needed way higher hardware just to even get close to the same framerate.  Now, what if every company based there games of that engine,  ohh goodie...  Same is said with SDKs, a shitty one can = us paying throw the nose just to play games that could easily run on half the system if it was just done better.

You know the reason why that matrix game ran like gravy was because they made their own thing. Leave the engine building to the experts. Q3, Unreal, that Hvock thing, Source, CryTech and Doom3 are all rearry rearry good engines (rearry). Most companies would be hard pressed to get 2/3 rd\'s of the way to making something equivalent and  for several times the cost of just paying the license fee! The money is just better spent on making the game.

Also, paying for a shit game can easily be avoided. Just read freaking reviews and ask if anyone you know was stupid enough to get sucked in!

Apparently Soully won\'t understand until Sony announces something similar...