Separation of Church and State

You are forgetting one thing Mystiq - although we have freedom of religion and the seperation of Church and State - this country was founded by Christians.  It is impossible to ignore that and its influence on our society.

I never would want to live under a theocracy, but at the same time I don\'t want to live in a society where religion is constantly attacked like it has been recently - ie. the Pledge, the microscopic cross on the LA City Seal, etc.  

As for Christian lobbyists - they are just like every other lobby group in DC - all of them try to influence elected officials to vote according to their agenda.

The President is an individual and just because he is President does not mean he can\'t make decisions that are grounded in his faith.  Bush is not a religious extremist, but he grounds his morality in Christian teachings.  This is nothing new as Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter, JFK and every President before them has done so.  If a President were to make a decision based on spreading Christianity to other countries, creating laws that followed the strict teachings of the bible - you might have a point.  This will never happen for three reasons - the other two branches of our government and the Constitution.

A little faith never hurt anyone and this country will never adopt an official religion so I fail to see how Bush using his faith to guide his decisions as some great violation of the separation of Church and State.  Atheists need to learn how to tolerate those who have faith and the same can be said about Christian Fundamentalists who condemn all who don\'t believe.  

Finally, I believe in tradition and the word God on our currency, in the Pledge, in Inaugurations, the observance of Christmas, or the use of crosses or other religious symbols doesn\'t offend me.  This country was built by men of faith and men who had no faith.  During the time of our country\'s growth these men didn\'t attack each other over their beliefs and didn\'t want to wipe away the traditions of our country.

Oh and I came to Alabama because of my job.

[Jumpman]

Don\'t lie Giga you heard the song and couldn\'t resist.

What "Sweet Home Alabama"?

GigaShadow, no.

The country was indeed founded by majority-Christians, but it was not build to be Christian. It was built to adapt to whatever the majority of voters wanted as long as that did not infringe on individual right.

Because the country\'s voting populace has become less and less concerned with religion, it is only natural that Religion be phased out of public-controlled areas of government.

Why the hell do people get so pussyhurt over something so trivial as \'God\' in the pledge, emblems, what Giga mentioned, etc. ?

Let me tell you, America is far better off than many countries in regards to enforced religions and theocracies... Just man up and grow a pair, there are so many bigger issues at hand.

If you think what the government is doing about religion is unimportant, you must also think the majority of what they do is unimportant, right?

The reason all the religious stuffs been going down is because the Left has slowly realized over the last 50 years that a large part of America is perhaps unfairly based on religion. The left cannot attack more abstract concepts of religion/state without marginalizing itself so they attack straight foward images of religion/state.

It\'s a pointless argument from both sides, but atleast the left are logical.

What I hear you guys saying is:
Who cares? its not a big deal!

Which is basically saying:
Hey, i don\'t care. Why do those liberal pussies care?

Which is NOT a very good argument.

Edit:

The other argument you are playing is
"America was founded by Christians"

America was also founded by slave owners who believed in white supremecy. So?

How is it unfair that a small, and yes, small fraction of America is based on religion? What the hell difference does it make? So you say \'God\' in the pledge, so you see a cross on a city emblem?

Why shit a brick over it?!

Don\'t get me wrong, I\'m neither conservative nor liberal, I like to think of myself as a moderate. Its just people really need to realize whether something is of grand significance or not... And right now the entire separation of Church and state is such a minute problem that it makes me just roll my eyes whenever somebody has a problem with it.

Take a flight to any Middle Eastern country and see what they have to deal with. You\'ll get your dick cut off for preaching separation of church and state... however unless you\'re a liberal, you probably lost it a long time ago anyways.

Religion and law-making largely go hand in hand. Conformity to preserve society is a large part of religion.

I\'m sorry, I just figured I\'d summarize my point in 2 sentences instead of 200.

I don\'t think much of politics is really based on signifigant issue. The biggest issue politicans deal with today is upholding a realm of political stability.

And no, symbols don\'t matter to you. But they matter to some people, and some of those people were voted into the position they are in.

Um, in America yes.

I hope you don\'t mean universally, because history proves that wrong.

ok, so you\'re going to tell me a cross that was put on a flag over a century ago and the word god in the pledge of allegiance which was written more than a century ago should be taken out now after all this time???

To me thats stupid. If something is there its there, fuck it its not that important go give the bum on the street 50 bucks to swap out his clothes if you want to something beneficial to society other than sit on these forums and bitch about how bad religion is sucking up politics. Name the last President of the US that was an atheist? Do that for me in the last 50 years and then I\'ll be impressed.

You can choose what you want to watch listen to and hear, if you don\'t want to say god in the pledge of allegiance no fucking body is going to make you.

[Evi]

...I heard they\'re thinking of modifying the Lincoln Memorial because of the writing upon it has has religious references... I get all giddy just waiting to see what they\'ll think of next. :daddy:

I don\'t see how that \'Who\'s yer daddy\' smiley fits in context of your post...

However, I do agree that whoever wants to change that needs to die.

Originally posted by SwifDi
I don\'t see how that \'Who\'s yer daddy\' smiley fits in context of your post...

However, I do agree that whoever wants to change that needs to die.

People like the ACLU, Ghetto, Mystiq and DH.  They are so intolerant and afraid.  Sorry, but Christianity in this country doesn\'t hurt anyone and I will say it again.  Freedom of Religion is NOT freedom from religion.  If you want that travel back in time to the Soviet Union under Stalin.

1. The USSR Did not have freedom of religion, it was forced atheism.

2. Historical monuments do not need to be changed if they mention god, as they serve no real purpose in todays society. But the pledge is said every day at my PUBLIC high school.

3. The Pledge was changed to include the word god, so all you 1800\'s US fans should be with me on this one.

I really don\'t care what they do with religion in the government Giga, but if I was forced to choose i\'d say take God out of the pledge and change the legal system to be more fair towards people with minority beliefs.  But that\'s just me, and I can\'t vote. (And I probley wouldn\'t vote anyway).

Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
1. The USSR Did not have freedom of religion, it was forced atheism.

[/b]

Which is what some want here.

Originally posted by Deadly Hamster

2. Historical monuments do not need to be changed if they mention god, as they serve no real purpose in todays society. But the pledge is said every day at my PUBLIC high school.

[/b]

There is nothing wrong with saying the pledge every day in a public school.  I said it daily along with millions of other kids.  

Historical monuments serve no real purpose??? Didn\'t you ever learn that those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it?  History is very important for so many reasons and monuments are a daily reminder of the sacrifices made, the tragedies, the triumphs and the hero\'s of mankind.

Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
3. The Pledge was changed to include the word god, so all you 1800\'s US fans should be with me on this one.

[/b]

It was changed back in the 1950\'s under Eisenhower during the Cold War.  Since most in this country have known no other pledge, especially you - I don\'t see the harm in keeping it there.  Next there will be a call to remove the Bible from Presidential inaugurations.

Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
I really don\'t care what they do with religion in the government Giga, but if I was forced to choose i\'d say take God out of the pledge and change the legal system to be more fair towards people with minority beliefs.  But that\'s just me, and I can\'t vote. (And I probley wouldn\'t vote anyway).

How the hell is the legal system unfair towards people with "minority beliefs"?  Come on DH explain this one, I really would like to hear how you perceive that the legal system discriminates towards non Christians.

What warped view of this country you have if you believe such nonsense.  It really makes me wonder where you learned ideas like this.