Sorry next gen will suck

I dont know the qualifications of these guys and what they know of the innerworkings of the cell (and obviously im no guru) but this is exactly like some of the things said about ps2. Though in actuality the ps2 could really keep up because it was designed specifically for its tasks more or less.

Thats not to say that the Xenon isnt but in terms of squeezing out non graphics code the only reason i can see this being a huge problem is because the games will most likely be bigger. Seeing as how these consoles are bounds better than the last gen, I dont see why "game controls, AI, and physics" have to be so much more expansive in something like GT5 compared to  GT4.

Its true that if these guys are right then this could be some sort of bottleneck but for the most part the advancement in each generation is primarily one of graphical capability, which they admit the cell might have a leg up on. Of course graphics arent the main part of gaming, but with an obviously bigger tube to fit non graphical code than the last gen I dont see why the PS3 will FALL not being able to push out wads of non gfx code for AI and physics that will be semi similar to those of the last gen (to some small extent). In short, I guess the programming for the PS3 will just have to be more precise like PS2 instead of sending butt loads of wasteful code down 1 pipe.

Thinking about it, I could be very wrong and we basically have to understand what they mean exactly to really tear it appart, but from my understanding I dont 1) see why this is so much worse than PC\'s and 2) why it will hinder the PS3 to some huge extent.

It is like saying that they\'ll make the same mistakes as current gen, but now twice as bad.

[BizioEE]

Maybe Sony is focusing more on graphics and "special effects", but I do not think PS3 will lack in physics and AI, Sony IBM  Nvidia know how to develop a balanced piece of hardware ! Sure you can\'t have anything at 100% , so it\'s possible that a console A is a monster in the graphics department and only good in AI, but I\'m not a developer, most people are not, and
I wanna wait for very reliable opinions of people who really squeeze the hardware and knows how to use "integer and floating point power" in the right way !

It should be interesting too see how the floating point and integer performance can be combined and use to have the best result in physics and AI for both console...I need the opinion(I hope unbiased:) ) of developers like Bungie, Naughty Dog, Team Ninja, Square, polyphony,
the people who made Ico ! ...for example...

[clips]

Originally posted by Knotter8
It is like saying that they\'ll make the same mistakes as current gen, but now twice as bad.

in a nutshell, that\'s what it sounds like...damn sounds like advancements in physics and AI are so small that for 5 steps they take in graphics, the AI takes like only one...

[§ôµÏG®ïñD]

Thats what i love about pcs, they\'re design PCI Physics and AI pci cards.

AI PCI Cards? Didnt know. Thats crazy. But like i was saying earlier, I want to know how this limits the ps3 so much. I could think of one thing, and thats that maybe with the graphical advancements, more calculations on how light, gravity (physics) and all of that work with a far more complex graphical item have to be done. And I dont even know how much more extensive that is than the same thing done on the last gen.

If that isnt the case then i dont see too many reasons why AI etc has to make such a huge leap from the last gen. It always seemed to me that most of the poor AI design in other games was just due to programmer error etc rather than console limitations (im probably wong about that).

One way or another, im eager to see the outcome and untill then im not phased.

BizioEE. Im interested in their comments too but most of those devs are under the thumb of either sony or microsoft to some degree, though they may give truthful responses. Who knows.

[Jumpman]

you\'re a design physics and pci card you fucking homo

Originally posted by Unicron!
"In short, the PS3 may fare a bit worse than the Xenon on non-graphics code, but on the upside it will probably fare a bit better on graphics code because of the seven SPEs."

That truelly surprised me.AI, physics etc were supposed to be one of the Cell\'s main distinctive abilities.That was totally unexpected.
Its the first time also that I see such atitude from arstechnica

Dont worry, it is.

Ars is goig straight against what actual developers are saying.

AGEIA (PPU) Quote.

"We’re proud to offer AGEIA’s physics technology to help developers create compelling content for "PLAYSTATION®3", said Andy Keane, vice president of marketing for AGEIA. "PLAYSTATION®3" delivers some incredible capabilities, and our developers are energized by the opportunity to develop middleware for this powerful next-generation platform."

Marc Rein (EPIC) quote:

We\'re going to be able to do a lot of cool stuff on it (Cell). Especially great physics--the NovodeX guys are going to get their API put on it.

MR: The PlayStation 3 Cell architecture is very similar to the hardware design of the Ageia chip, so the PC will be able to get superaccelerated also. The Ageia NovodeX API, when they bring it over to the PlayStation 3, will be very fast, very powerful--similar to the Ageia [chip]. But the cool thing about that is if someone\'s lead moneymaking platform is the PlayStation 3, they\'re going physics up the wazoo because they have so much power. That makes it a very economical choice for PC users than to just pop a [physics] chip into the PC and then have the full physics effects that will be available on the PlayStation 3 or the Xbox 360.

Masayuki Chatani (SCEI CTO) quote:

The heart of PlayStation 3 is a Cell processor. A revolutionary architecture for high performance computing. The  Cell is designed specifically to handle the massive floating point calc complication demand of the most  complex algorithms, physics, dynamics, AI, simulation and the media processing...

[Evi]

Wow...thanks for the quotes.

[BizioEE]

thanks fastson, nice reading !  ...and I was expecting that:)


"Just a few months ago no-one had heard of either AGEIA nor their specialist PhysX chip. Things are somewhat different now with the company getting a fair bit of attention in the specialist press. The company was understandably keen to point out their work on developing tools for games developers working on creating games for the PS3. "We\'re proud to offer AGEIA\'s physics technology to help developers create compelling content for Playstation 3", said Andy Keane, vice president of marketing for AGEIA. "Playstation 3 delivers some incredible capabilities, and our developers are energized by the opportunity to develop middleware for this powerful next-generation platform."

While the NovodeX software will no doubt crop up in some PS3 games in the future a number of PC developers are working with the engine on their current projects, eager to enhance the gaming experience with the physics modelling that AGEIA is able to create with its software. City of Villains, the follow-up to the wildly popular super-hero MMO, will incorporate it as its core physics engine, offering new physics-based effects and environments such as large rigid body simulations, fluids, physical particle systems and more. Snowboarding game Stoked Rider will utilise the physics software to simulate the complex physical dynamics of snowboarding, including friction behaviour, collisions and more. The game will also offer avalanche simulations that are optimized for the hardware-accelerated physics of AGEIA\'s PhysX processor."

http://www.ferrago.com/story/5774

just to reaffirm fasty\'s quote:D

[Jumpman]

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[clips]

^^^ok just what does that mean?..was jumpy\'s post deleted? is that some type of expression or what? i\'ve seen this a few times and never knew what it meant....

.

[clips]

^^^:laughing:...see that s**t\'s not cool...you and jumpy are not gonna drive me crazy tryin to figure out what that means tho...

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